Dave B

After reading a couple posts from random members (can't remember thier names) saying that the midpipe made them slower, I decided to experiment. I've been running a midpipe for well over 3 years now so I definately know what it feels and sounds like. I reinstalled my stock resonator and went for a long drive. First thing is notice is better low rpm response. When I went WOT, my hacked airbox isn't as deep or loud. That kind of sucks because I like the sound plus I like hearing my MEVI open. It use to be like "get the F out my way" kind of a sound and now it's just a sporty snort kind of sound. I did a handful of WOT runs and I noticed the car definately doesn't feel any slower and I dare say it's quicker and this is in 90 degree weather. I punched it in 2nd at 4500rpms and my neck snapped back as if it were a cool 40 degrees out. Punching it on the highway was also impressive.

Just thought I'd share. You might want to try it out just for fun and see if you agree or disagree.


Dave

bellis

iTrader: (1)

Well thats interesting. I was in the process of getting the mid pipe, but have not yet ordered it. I think I will probably hold off.

gtr_rider

iTrader: (50)

You know, this is the first time I actually looked at your cardomain site and your car looks pretty nice. I thought you had a 97-99 this whole time

Well anyway, I have the K&n filter w/o velocity stack, how would it compare if I were to throw on the JWT filter which has a velocity stack to my system?

Street Reeper

I believe you have merrit if did the DIY midpipe. The exhaust piping from autozone is not quite 3inches, only the flaired end is. Measure the width of the pipe, it is under 3inches, now measure the openings in your resinator, much bigger. I do not know about the other aftermarket midpipes, although in diameter they may measure 3 inches, I wonder what the width of the opening is?

I switched from the autozone pipe, back to PVC because the PVD opening is a full 3inches. I have had no problems with the PVC getting to hot and this is in hot Texas weather with a JWT filter.

The biggest restriction after an intake mod and before the throttle body is going to be the MAF sensor, I have not measured that yet, anyone have a minute (I am up at work)?

I have considered putting my resinator back on as I do not think it is restrictive. I have been trying to think of flow characteristics but really have no knowledge of them. The only thing I can think of is trying to suck through a straw as the advantges of a midpipe. It might smooth the airflow out into a more controlled flow. However with the resinator you have the inlet, a large open space and then a whole that leads to the throttle body. This I would think would not be restrictive but I wonder what the flow characteristics of somthing like this would be.

Does anyone have a clue as to why this resinator is shaped the way it is?

Any one?

joew

so you removed your mid-pipe, now your intake is completely stock right?

what is hacked box?

Street Reeper

This is with my midpipe on, I have since changed to a JWT filter and velocity stack.



The hacked air box, cut a hole in the bottom so the air still travels through the filter before entering the throttle body, I would also reccomend that you position the hole towards the fender so that it is not directed towards warm engine air.

Dave B

Thanks for the compliments. I hope to finish off my Stillen body kit soon so my car should look fairly aggressive.

I'm not running a velocity stack on my hacked airbox and I've been able to get nearly 100mph in the 1/4 mile which is right in line with what Neal and Requim6 are getting with their MEVI/JWT ECU/hybrid intake Maximas. Therefore I doubt I'm being slowed down by not running a velocity stack.


Dave

Max Noob

iTrader: (5)

hacking your airbox is when you take off that big dust pan looking part of the intake piping that is suppose to draw in some cold air from the front of the hood but th opening is so small is really restrictive. your left with abuut a 3.5x3 inch opening just on the lower air box. u get a a faint stock sports car growl on acceleration and when combined with a k&n drop in you get decent gains. but i dont think as much as an hai. i ran with hacked air box and k&n drop in for 4 months. my bomz hai feels stronger.

Street Reeper

This is incorrect. The main problem with the stock air box is the inlet from the snorkel (what you removed) to the air box is much smaller than the outlet from the box to the throttle body. By cutting a hole into your air box you match the ability of the larger hole going to the throttle body and the amount of air it can draw in.

Removing your snorkel does nothing for restriction and only gives you an opening that is pointed towards your engine, thus drawing in hot air.

Dave B

Thanks for the compliments. I hope to finish off my Stillen body kit soon so my car should look fairly aggressive.

I'm not running a velocity stack on my hacked airbox and I've been able to get nearly 100mph in the 1/4 mile which is right in line with what Neal and Requim6 are getting with their MEVI/JWT ECU/hybrid intake Maximas. Therefore I doubt I'm being slowed down by not running a velocity stack.


Dave

Street Reeper

I remember on Frankens web sight it once said that their intakes out dynoed Stillens by somthing like 2-3 hp "as seen on maxima.org." The link was only to the .org's home page, does anyone know where this is?

I just got done watching a video of the Stillen 350z. They have a walk through of the factory and the marketing director says that many times new intakes have been developed that make gains on the dyno, but he said unless the gains are significant according to Stillen himself they will not be sold. He further adds that the intake from the factory has been poored over by engineers and R&D for a long time before it is released. He states that a ton of R&D is needed to promote significant gains from this design and that is what they do at Stillen (100+ sometimes.)

I am now wondering whether they ever thought of putting a midpipe on along with their intake. To my knowledge they are not selling midpipes. I am pretty sure that they would have thought of this and tried it, just as I am sure that no one ever put any R&D time into the making of half of their CAI intake to be used alone.

I think I have decided to put the resinator back on unless someone can show me the dyno that franken claims.

joew

thanks for the pic Street Reeper.


how about using heat shield? won't that reduces some hot air?

Street Reeper

I honestly don't think it is nessacary if you cut where I did. You should get alot of the incoming air around the hood and the hole is far enough away from the engine that it wouldn't matter.

If you are planning on doing this mod I would buy a back up lower air box, I got mine from CBR2, you could throw an add in the parts wanted section.

joew

how much did you get for?

Loe max

iTrader: (6)

good, I thought I was going crazy I know my car pulls harder with the stock resonator vs. mid-pipe down-low and in 3rd gear on the highway. But I can't live without that mid-pipe growl

Dave B

Going on 3 days now with the stock resonator. Temps have been in the lower 90s and my car has never pulled so hard.


Dave

Dave Holmes

I just did the same, even putting back in the resonator below the battery. My car (97 auto) seemed to lack low end power with the resonators removed. Here in hot as heck Louisiana, my car has regained the low end power it had before the intake mods (I don't care about increased sound from an intake).
Dave B, as I've noticed the same results as you, I don't think it is just our minds.

Dave

joew

resonator BELOW the battery?

NEW2DAGAME

iTrader: (1)

You guys arent alone. I put mine back on day before yesterday and I to have regained low end and pull out of my 95 GLE. Like Dave H. said, I dont care about the increased sound.

tszymans

So the lesson learned is don't bother with a midpipe? the stock resonator is better?

TurDz

iTrader: (3)

It seems very hard to tell whether a midpipe actually works now or not. It's raised a question on my own setup also (midpipe/JWT) but I don't think I'm going to change it. I'm pretty sure if these two setups were dynoed, there would be no difference, also taking into account the 2-3 hp variance on the dyno runs. Both the midpipe and resonator provide a simple path to the TB, and I don't understand how it can be so different that the resonator performs better. Can anyone back up these claims with physical explanations or actual dyno runs?

nismology

iTrader: (8)

It's more complex than just a simple path to the throttle body. I remember reading in some thread here or other that the stock resonator actually stores air and partially pressurizes the intake manifold. A sort of air "buffer." With this eliminated, perhaps that's why low-RPM acceleration and throttle response is somewhat diminished with a mid-pipe. If you search, you might be able to find it.

Nismo

iTrader: (18)

sombody should design a midpipe with a big bubble in the middle to act as an air resovoir like how the stock one is-only alot smoother. Ive seen CF versions of these for other imports before.

TurDz

iTrader: (3)

Hmm it's interesting you brought that up. Thanks for that new idea...I hope it sparks more discussion.

Ceasars Chariot

iTrader: (16)

Dave your killing me ! I just paid good money for a midpipe $$ But you know what ... I believe you

joew

Will this lose the effect or the HP on the Y-pipe?

MaxSpeedSE

iTrader: (3)

yeah how will this work, cuz i thought more mods on mods help even more?

and for my 2nd question is im confused you guys keep saying resonator...your only talking about the intake right? not the one on the exhuast?

MaxSpeedSE

iTrader: (3)

Oh yeah and 1 more thing, with the aftermarket intakes, I can understand how the lose some low end (specially the warm air) but isent that the whole point of mods...is to lose some power on a surten part of your powerband, but gain a lot somewhere els?

Dave B

Like others have said, I think the resonator (the one between the throttle body and MAF) stores air which improves throttle response. Honestly, I don't quite understand how something so simple ends up improving seat-of-the-pants feel so much. The thing I notice the most is how quickly my car winds out from 4000-6000rpms in 2nd (rarely go I go past 6000rpms on the street). I know for a fact my car never wound out so quickly. 1st gear feels great and 3rd is even stronger on the highway.

I'd love to go to the track, but it's just too freaking hot (90-100) right now and since I haven't run my current setup (MEVI/JWT ECU) in temps this hot yet, I don't have any reliable 1/4 numbers to compare to. I've ran a handful of 14.4/14.5 in 80 degree weather so when temps dip back into the lower 80s/70s, I'll get back to the track.


Dave

MaxSpeedSE

iTrader: (3)

Your track isent open at night, for some cool night runs?

carnal_c30

iTrader: (38)

This is what I've been saying ever since I tried the Frankencar mid-pipe a few months ago.
I tested it at the track against the resonator box, both 1/8 and 1/4mile, and it made me slower. I ran .1-.2 sec faster with stock box. Low end and mid range sucks with the mid-pipe. Top end feels the same.
The mid-pipe sounds good, but loses power.

bellis

iTrader: (1)

I have a g-tech and can hit constant low 6 0-60 and 15 sec or less 1/4 mile times. I am in GA now and it is about as hot and humid as it gets.
I have been a bit hessident to get the midpipe. And I dont think at this point i will after reading this thread. I just put in the G-force ecu and have noticed the car changed dramatically. I think the first cool day I get I will put my straight pipe (straight cat) back on and run it.

nick

iTrader: (10)

the car lost some of the bottom end - but the midrange is great and that's what i use the most , I'm using the stock snorkle with custom elbow to get some fresh air into K&N filter (in theory )
the growl of intake coupled with Y-pipe makes other drivers freak -out when i pass them

Nick

MaxSpeedSE

iTrader: (3)

Yes the way you run your intake is a very good idea... no one says the aftermarket mid pipe is junk...as of now we still cant prove that the stock is actuly fast...all we have to base it on is a butt dyno.

Now if you still have your stock intake, or anywone els that had it plus a mid pipe, and wouldent mind running to a local track to get some numbers to end this once and for all would be awsome

If i get the time, and some time off work...i might go to a local 1/8 track and try with both in the same night... but im sure sombody will beat me to that due to the fact i work like 55 hours a week

nismos14

iTrader: (56)

interested in track results lets see what happens

MaxSpeedSE

iTrader: (3)

Anachronism

Mods are making me slower?

Has anyone with a hole for a CAI tried running a pipe from the hole next to the battery into the stock airbox (before the filter) for a real oogile stock CAI?

The new G-tech can read RPMs and supposedly can print out dyno charts based on acceleration. The numbers would also be on the road so it could end the hood closed/open debate too. I would love to get one and spend some time trying out every intake to get real numbers, but I have other things to spend my money on now

Geophrum

i am not to sure about this.... i have a 96 GXE and my co worker has a 99GLE and for the longest time i had a DIY mid pipe and he had the stock resinator and we both have everything else the same and when we raced we were dead even... both autos.... then we built him a DIY midpipe becuase he liked the sound... and we are still dead even no major pull one over the other...the only thing different is his is heavier being a GLE with all the options (leather, ABS, traction control) an mine is a basic GXE with higher miles

So i dont understand were the difference is? We did not see it in a race. it did not make any difference from dead stop or a rolling start.

MaxSpeedSE

iTrader: (3)

did yall just race off a role, what happens when u two race off the line? and are you both on the same type of rims?

Geophrum

I have steel rims and he has the stock GLE alloy and we are dead even.. the only time he pulls on me is if my tires spin from a dead stop.