sryth

I've got everything off of the transmission (save the shift control rod ), and I'm ready to actually take it out, but I have a few questions first.

I've heard of people pulling the tranny without removing the exhaust or the center crossmember. Can this be done? Doesn't the tranny have to slide out (horizontally) enough for the input shaft to clear the clutch plate? Is there enough room to do this without dropping the transmission side of the engine?

I'd like to get this out and in the shop today (paying a tranny shop to do a rebuild), but I'd like to minimize the work involved as I just got off of a 12 hour shift, and I'm due back at work in 10 hours

(quick responses would be greatly appreciated!!)

Dreizehn

iTrader: (4)

I've dropped my tranny without taking the center member out or removing the motor... Yes there is enough room to pull the tranny off of the motor.

I don't understand your comment...
Mine was auto and I had enough room to back it off the motor and drop it from the bottom of the car.

Hope this helps

sryth

Not sure about the autos, but with the manual tranny, there's an input shaft that goes through the clutch pressure plate and into the engine. As far as I know, it has to come straight out. I figured I'd pull out all the mounts, tilt the engine and transmission down (lower the tranny side) enough to clear the underbody, and slide it out.

Does your auto have an input shaft that goes into the engine?

Dreizehn

iTrader: (4)

No but it has a TC. I don't think you have to pull all the mounts and move the motor. You should be able to pull the mount that holds the tranny to the frame and you should be able to back it up enough to get the input shaft out.

sryth

I hope so. It doesn't seem like there's enough room, considering the size of the clutch plate.

Has anyone out there done this with a manual?

96BLUMAX

iTrader: (3)

Yeah like a month ago and it will come out. Try and get rid of that control rod though. Will be in the way when removing tranny. I would just use a jack and once you pull it off the hanging screws(youlls well what i mean) then lower it down and out. Just try not to scratch up the pressure plate on the way out and you should be good. Hope this helps.

-Justin

sryth

Excellent. I got the control rod off, so that's done with. What a pain in the *** that was.

Thanks for the replies fellas. They were very helpful.

Scruit

When I removed my manual (3x ) I removed teh ypipe and engine crossmember. They allowed much better access to the shift control rod (and support rod) and passenger driveshaft center support. They only took about 15 mints to remove between them. I used a bottle jack and a piece of wood to lower/tilt the engine enough so the tranny would slide out and the input shaft would clear. Remove the tranny mount from the tranny as well as from the car (4 bolts) for more clearance.

Finally, if you have an engine hoist then it'll be much easier on your back. bolt a short length of chain between the front/left bolt of the 4 tranny mount bolts (closest to driver's headlamp) and the other end to one of the 2 shift support rod bolts. Take the weight of the tranny before you remove the bellhousing bolts. Then when you seperate the tranny you won't have to deal with a sudden weight of the tranny. Those two mount locations I told you allow the tranny to hang/balance in it's natural orientation also, making it much easier to reconnect.

Without a hoise you'll need a friend to take the weight of the tranny while you meneuver it.

Also, another tip - once the tranny is one the floor, assuming you jus have the car on jackstands and not a hoist, turn the tranny 90deg so the input shaft is inline with the car of the car, then slide it out sideways so the top of the bellhousing passes between the front of the driver's wheel assembly. I spent a good 10 mins first time I did this just trying to get the tranny out once it was on the floor!

Using this technique I've had a max tranny out in 1:30 from rolling into the shop to putting the tranny on the workbench.

96BLUMAX

iTrader: (3)

Wow, 1:30 is awesome time dude. I hope that i dont have to take mine off many more times to get that kind of practice.

sryth

Thanks for the post Scruit. Anyone else have experience?

Drop crossmember/tilt engine? I got 2 for yes and 1 for no

ejj

iTrader: (5)

That's what I did.

Scruit

The "NO" that you got was from MadMax95 - he has an auto. An automatic does not have an input shaft that protrudes into the pressure plate/flywheel/crank etc. With an auto all you do is unbolt the trorque convertor and push it back into the tranny. Then all you have to do is remove it 1" to clear the flexplate.

The manual has to be pulled like 6" off the engine to fully disengage the input shaft.

So, counting ejj and discounting MadMax95 (no offence intended!) you now have 3 votes for Yes and zero votes for No.

Dreizehn

iTrader: (4)

Like I said... I'm auto, for now.



I appologize for the wrong info, just seemed really easy with the auto to get it out. The 5-speed is smaller, I assumed...

sryth

Well, I got the tranny off. And, for the record, I didn't drop the crossmember/tilt the engine. I have a feeling, though, that if my input shaft bearings weren't shot, I might not have made it

sryth

Thanks to everyone who chimed in.

Once the tranny was down, it seems that it's not the diffy bearings that went. It's the main shaft bearings. I'm gonna get those replaced, but should I have the mechanic replace the diffy bearings as well? They seem strong, and the diffy case has been taken off before (the mechanic pointed that out), so maybe they were swapped, maybe not.

Is there any way to tell if they're damaged without removing them? IIRC, you have to cut them out. I don't want to possibly kill a perfectly good bearing.

Scruit

Damn - you learn something new every day - I really didn't think you could drop the tranny without removing that crossmember. Oh well.

You have the same bearing failure as I did. I feel yer pain, brother. Tell me how much he charges you for the rebuild!

Anyhoo - the most important things to remember when replacing the input bearings are; (dunno if you're having this done by someone who'd done maxima trannies before, so sorry if this is too simple)

1) Be VERY careful with the smooth part of the input shaft right there near the bearing. it's the seal surface. If the bearings cage has collapsed then the outer race will fall off and the ball bearings will drop out. This will leave the inner race. If this is a professional tranny builder then he will have the correct tool to PULL this off - a 2-jaw or 3-jaw puller will not work. If he's gonna CUT it off then be very careful with than seal surface.

2) The diff bearings should be VERY closely inspected and replaced if there any ANY sign of damage or wear. The 2 bearings are like $30 each. The most critical thing here is to get the correct bearing preload - too much and the tranny will not last as the diff bearings will be torn up. Even if these bearing are not replaced you MUST check the preload - it may not be correct even from the factory!!

3) When putting it all back together remember to align the bolt hole on the reverse idler shaft support with the bolt hole in the side of the tranny. If this is forgotten then you'll be pulling the case apart again to line it up. I didn't use loctite or permatex on the threads of that bolt - and it worked loose within a week and leaked all over my garage. A dab of loctite at the end of the threads and a bead of permatex under the bolt head saved the day.

sryth

It wasn't very easy. Removing the crossmember is definitely the way to go. From now on, I'll be dropping the crossmember

Can this be done without removing them? I thought the rollers weren't accessible with the bearing in place. Spalling can't be seen if this is the case. What else is there to look for? I put some pressure on the bearing as I spun it with my finger. No lateral movement seemed to be happening.

Doesn't the factory have a tendency to overload the bearing? (too thick of a shim) If that's the case, I can't really measure that.

Definitely. I'm glad you pointed that out, as it is something that could easily be overlooked (and I'd probably overlook it).

Scruit

Whoever rebuilds the tranny can easly inspect the diff bearings when the diff is out of the case. You can see the condition of the roller sirface etc.

There is a specific method for measuring the diff bearing preload. You need a large screwedriver and a Dial Gauge that can read in thousanths. If you want I can send you the procedure from the FSM.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Put a Fidanza in when you're done

sryth

Oh...I thought they were pressed in, and the rollers were between the bearing and the case (hence: invisible).

That'd be awesome! Thanks!


Well, I won't have the $$ for the lightened flywheel (how much are they? Do I really need to pay the rent this Friday? ) Putting it in when I get the money should be fun, though. How will I ever get as good at removing the tranny as Scruit is without practice?

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

$325 + shipping. A good deal

Scruit

I just got my factory one resurfaced. Cost like $30 at NAPA. If you want a lightened flywheel just ask them to resurface it "A Lot"

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I know that is humor but you do know that's the WRONG side to take significant amounts of material off of right? Plus you can't safely take off enough material to match a billet aluminum unit's weight. Not even close.

Scruit

How about a thermoplastic flywheel with steel friction insert?

One good clutch dump, though... BOOOM!

sryth

Unfortunately, I really need the car back together as soon as possible. (3/3 cars I own are busted ) Not to mention that this is hitting my wallet very hard as it is, so another $325 + shipping would definitely push me over the top.

The price I got from my mechanic was $400 to replace all of the main-shaft bearings. He said he'd do the differential bearings too for the cost of the parts ($100). Does this sound right? I'm gonna go over the procedure with him for shimming the diffy bearings. Does Nissan have an official procedure to reshim these things? I called the Nissan dealer near me, and they said: "I've never heard of it...we just reuse the old shims." WTF? Why would Nissan sell varying size shims for the bearing if they were never meant to be changed?

Does the FSM say to reshim according to endplay? If so, could I get a scan of this from someone?

Scruit: You said you could send me the procedure for checking preload, but does it say to reshim based on the preload?

Scruit

According to the FSM, Nissan puts that job at 11.8 hours (including R&R tranny)

They also put R&R of tranny at 5.2 hours

That leaves 6.6 hours to tear down and rebuild the tranny (completely) just parts.

The diffy bearings (non limited slip) are 2 at 50.96 each. (100 pair is correct). Mainshaft is 2 at $35 each.

So he's gonna do the rebuild for 330 labor - which works out as about $50/hour.

I'd say his estimate is right on IF he also replaces the input shaft bearings. (If that wasn't in his initial estimate then you may wind up paying the cost of those, like $30 each) I can tell you now your front input satf ebaring has probably completely collapsed like mine did.

So you'd pay $400 + 100 (diff brngs) + 60 (Input brngs) = $560, and that covers parts and labor to replace all 6 bearings (2 on input shaft, 2 omn main shaft and 2 on diff).

sryth

Actually, at the end of our conversation, he summarized by saying: "All 6 bearings replaced for $500", so that should include parts and labor.

Does it say (in the FSM) that you should check the clearance on the diffy bearings, and shim appropriatly? My dealership openly admitted that they never do it when replacing them:

"We sell different sized shims, but we never get them. We just reuse the shims that are in there.", said the ignorant Nissan mechanic.

Scruit

You must ALWAYS reshim if you disturb the bearings. The #1 cause of failed rebuilds is not reshimming the diff. If you don't disturb the bearings then you technically can put it back together with the original shims, but I always measure anyways because it could be wrong from the factory (or a previous rebuild where they didn't reshim )

The process takes only 5 minutes for the diff, and 5 mins for the input (dunno about the main shaft).

Basically, then process is that you complete the rebuild etc and then the last thing you do before closing the case is you put together the case (no sealant) and then attach a dial guage in such a way that it touches the end of the input shaft. Then you zero the guage, and then push the shaft in and out to see what the endplay is - it should be less than .002". Any more than that and you must open the case again and adjust the shims - there are multiple shims and you just add or subtract the right amount of shims so that the endplay is correct. The shims are just like really big, but very thin washers.

With the diff you would again put the case together (no sealant) and attach the dial guage so it pokes through the driver's axles hole and touches the diff. Then put a screwdriver through the VSS hole (being careful of the VSS drive gear) and then push the diff up and down, noting the variance on the guage. I don't have the spec here, but there is an upper and lower reading that you must be between. Too tight (low number) is a death sentence on the bearings. Out of means you have to pll the bearing cap out of the case and adjust the shims there (note, you don't have to pull the BEARING from the diff, just the bearing CAP that the bearing sits in, from the case - it comes out easily.)

You mechanic MUST reshim or you gotta take it somewhere else. I can't believe anyone would refuse to do it is you specifically asked. Ask him to write down the endplay for the input shaft and diff. The fact that the dealer admitted to you that they don't reshim only goes to reinforce my personal philosophy that if you want something done properly, you gotta get grease on your hands.

maxger

when I shimmed my diff and input shaft the input shaft was shimmed correctly but the diff. was off by 5 shim sizes by the oem manual. You got to make shure they shimm the bearings properly


What I concluded after replacing my Tranny bearings.

1) Make sure you have the tranny in neutral when you put it together
2) Make sure you have all you parts accounted for even down to the ball bearing.
3) Make sure you can engage all 6 gears( including reverse) before you put the cover back on)
4) Every nissan mechanic or tranny place uses the phrase "I've never heard of it...we just reuse the old shims." That is why I had to do it myself.
5) take no BS Heehee

PS I dropped the cross member ( best time 3 hrs - outside, no air tools)(1.5 hrs is allsome for removal )

Good luck

Scruit

For my 1.5 I 'cheated' in three ways;

- Tranny had already been removed so there were no rusted bolts/nuts (ypipe and passegner driveshaft )
- Budget y-pipe comes out in 2 mins. Factory Y originally took me 30 mins!
- Air tools pWN
- I had removed it three days before, so I remembered what stuff I had to (and more importantly, what stuff I didn't have to) remove.

Back in was still like 3 hours, because I was being careful to make sure everything was going back correctly.

sryth

Scruit: Can you get some scans from the FSM to me? Do you have an exploded drawing of the transmission?

So, all the bearings have to be shimmed accordingly...does Nissan say this in the FSM? Is it the official procedure to reshim according to bearing play and the dealers/tranny shops just being lazy?

I'm gonna talk to my mechanic and make sure he reshims everything (if needed). If he won't do it, I'll buy the parts off him, and do it myself. I have a feeling he'll tell me "Ok, ok...I'll reshim all the bearings." but in actuality not shim a damn thing. I guess I'll just have to check it after he's done. Too much endplay, and I take it back.

Scruit

Here's a couple of pics from my tranny rebuild.

Specs;




Diff Technique;




Input Shaft Technique;

sryth

Thanks Scuit! Sorry for all the questions, but that's how you learn. Those numbers reflect minimum - maximum travel on the bearings? So if, for example, the diffy bearing doesn't move .4mm he overloaded the bearing?

When I get this back, I'm gonna check the input shaft/differential bearings to make sure he shimmed appropriately. Can I determine if he overshimmed w/o crackin' the tranny in half?

Scruit

That is corerct - if the differential endplay, measure per the diagram above, is LESS than 0.4mm then the bearings are overloaded and WILL fail prematurely.

Yes - you can measure the input and diff preload/endplay (basically the same thing) wihtout opening the tranny.

sryth

Cool...there are 4 bearings on the mainshaft? If so, and 2 bearings shimmed correctly but the other 2 undershimmed, wouldn't that produce the desired endplay though 2 bearings will likely fail in the near future?

sryth

bump

Scruit

Sorry - been away.

There are three main components in the tranny;
- input shaft
- main shaft
- differential

The input shaft has two berings - on at heach end. The main shaft also has two bearings, one at each end. The differential also has two bearings, one at each side. 6 total.

sryth

Thanks again Scruit. So, I can't check the main shaft without removing the tranny...I guess the other 4 bearings will give me an idea if the guy did what he was supposed to. If he didn't, I guess all I can do is ***** at him, then do it myself.