fearthegecko

Okay, i'll make it real simple and give you the important stuff first: I suggest everyone go out and get this month's issue of Sport Compact Car magazine......Its the one with the police car on the cover. The reason why you ask? Well, besides giving the specs on some of the nation's more popular police vehicles (for those of you who like to make them earn that ticket), there's a chart which explains what mods are legal in each state, and where to get exact answers to questions concerning modding and staying legal. So now, instead of wasting the org's precious bandwith asking the tired old "how dark can my tint be?", "how loud can my exhaust be?","Are HID conversions illegal in my state?", you have the answers right in front of you. The only thing that sucks, (and this is mentioned more than once in the magazine) is that different municipalities may have stricter laws than the state. But the good news is that several websites are mentioned where you can obtain the exact laws for your area. So buy it, read it, know it, then leave us alone.
more info here

number 2 is less important to the rest of you, but much more important to myself. It's reason why i love my maxima #8,467: No matter how hard you try, it's damn near impossible to lock your keys in the car. I was half-asleep coming into work this morning, and when i got in, i didn't realize that i left my key in the ignition. I lock my doors at work, so i hit the lock button on the door and went inside. Well, i didn't realize that the doors unlocked when the door shut because the key had not been removed from the ignition. I had to go back to my car about an hour later, and i found my doors unlocked with the keys still in the ignition. I got my cigarettes, locked the doors with the keys still in the igniton because i forgot again to take them out (it's been a looong week), and i realized just as the door was shutting that they were still in the ignition. The door closed, and as i was about to lose it, click!, the doors unlocked. I got my keys out of the ignition, and all was well. I love my car.

SonicDust187

iTrader: (11)

Can you post up whats legal and illegal in NY?

fearthegecko

I'm only saying this once: I'm not posting anything from the magazine. Not because i'm being a d1ck (actually one of the rare occasions where i'm not being a d1ck), but what i do for one person, i have to do for everyone, and i don't feel like copying the entire chart on to the org. The only thing i will try to do is scan the chart, and post it on my cardomain site. That way everyone can have a copy. Until then, i'm sorry to say that people will either have to buy or steal it.

nismos14

iTrader: (56)

damn that ignition function can be bad too, like if u leave the key in on accident and go to work for 8 hours or somethin and someone happens to walk by and see the key..... tries the doors... and boo yeah, free car!

Taken2DaMax

iTrader: (5)

the maxima has very cool features like the one that you mentioned, fearthegecko. I love my maxima with it's automatic rolling down window. Maximas rule!!!

Dave Holmes

How about rolling them up?

The key in ignition/doors won't lock thing is cool. I've made it a habit though of only locking my doors with the remote. But for those of us with kids, that "safety" feature can be very convenient.

The Sport Compact Car articles were good, and they had good sources for the laws. For the street racers out there, when you look at the speeds (or lack of) of some of these cars, keep in mind that no car can outrun a radio. Also, driver training really comes in to play in a pursuit. Driver's Ed in high school or a court ordered driver improvement course is not driver training in this context.

The car tests could be a little inaccurate as well. Looking at the pics, the cars didn't have police accessories installed (light bars, radios, control boxes, spotlights, computers, gear in trunk, etc...). This will inevitably slow the cars more because of drag and weight (light bars are amazing at increasing drag. I'd been unable to keep up with slick tops before). But the top speed for the Crown Vic PI may be off, or the 2003's are governed. I know '99s will do 140+ (speedometer indicated). The Police Interceptor breathes real good at higher speeds, it just takes a little to get there. Basically, I wouldn't count these cars out when properly driven.

Dave

fearthegecko

i completely agree that driver training has a lot to do with it. Let's not forget the high pursuit tires and sport suspension. The 2000+ crown vics speedometer also goes to 140, which surprised the **** out of me. I've heard of cruisers going to 160.

ivelweyz

The magazine came out over 2 weeks ago and I read all the ****. I could scan all the pages and someone could host them...

USC Justice

iTrader: (7)

Just a quick comment. The numbers on some of the law enforcement vehicles were wrong. braking numbers in particular were overestimated, and acceleration rates for the crown vic were also not quite right. At least they don't match up to the test numbers of the LE vehicles that are used here in South Carolina. Of course we have our own standards of testing, and it may be that braking systems are upgraded for our law enforcement vehicles.

adroitcaptor

I browsed through that issue and was appalled. I don’t buy those stats at all. If they are true they have no application in Oregon. About 6mo’s ago when I was still stupid, I tried running from state crownvic. I had a 120mph quarter to half mile lead on him. The bastard caught me (he had to pull a u turn) like I was driving a metro. Evidently the state cownvics in Oregon have a “mod’d” SVT cobra engine in them. (I didn’t get the ticket but was pulled over.) I hate SCC I havn’t read a single issue that didn’t have some article that ****ed me off. Maybe I am just too picky ::shrugs:: later
God bless,
Dan

I will admit the legal chart was pretty cool though.

fearthegecko

Email em to me. i'll do it.



I think that the reason why these numbers are so bad is because these cars were tested in their basic form. If the vehicle passes the federal standard, then they are availible to each municipality to modify to a specific need. I know for a fact that the state police crown vics around here are supercharged, and i've seen mustangs and a viper used as pursuit cars in NJ.

Also, i highly doubt that the police would be so willing to hand over their vehicles specs to any regular citizens, nevermind a magazine specializing in modifying cars. About 2 years ago, i was at a wawa where 2 cops where hanging out and drinking coffee. I nonchalantly asked one of the cops to settle a bet that my friend and i were having, and tell me the top speed on his crown vic. He got all serious and was like," why would you want to know that?" I was still being nice and was like,"oh it's just a bet." He was like," well, how do i know that you don't have a built mustang at home (i was driving a Ford Tempo at this point) and you're going to take on one of us one day?". It was like a total slap in the face, i was being nice and this guy was a jerk, so i was real sarcastic and was like,"yeah, officer, i've got a mustang at home, but i drive the tempo around cause it gets me the chicks."

I think the only real way to know the specs is to be a cop.

kenji

iTrader: (1)

Well I live in oregon too, corvallis where cops run the town and have everyone cowering because they'll pull you over for anything. The city crown vic's are modded and have modded suspension. I would never try to run from any cop around here because they come out like cockroaches when something actually happens. Even if they weren't modded the power in numbers is scary enough by itself. To top it off I've seen modded camaros 'interceptors' that the stateys have (state police, which also happen to be running all over town) Running from the police is stupid, they have trained drivers and use proven tactics to catch people. My friend's dad has a 97 vette and he got away from them on I-5, but only because that freakin vette rocks. I suppose if you had a beefy a$$ car and you know how and where to drive it you have a chance, but worth the risk? I'd rather face a ticket than jail or death/serious injury from getting wrecked by a cop.


anyway just some input, all IMHO, everyone is allowed to do or think what they want i dont care.

SteVTEC

I was driving on the highway one night a long time ago and was in a train of cars doing about 80-90 in a 65 zone. The first guy rolled past a state trooper crown vic that was dark and hidden on the side of the road behind some bush. The lights came on and we all slowed down to 65.

I swear, from the moment the lights came on, that cop was around me in less than 10-15 seconds. Think about that... We all cruised by at 80-90, and then slowed down to the 65 limit. And in 10-15 seconds not only did this state trooper crown vic match our speed to start catching up, but also CAUGHT AND PASSED us!!! There is no way in hell a 4000+ lb Crown Vic PI with the stock civilian 239hp 4.6L V8 would have been able to pull that off, so it was definitely packing some goods.

The first guy in the train got the ticket.



Other points: You'll never outrun a radio or a chopper (already covered). And cops patrol the streets for a living. They know all of them like the back of their hand and know exactly how quickly they can go and turn through all of them without wrecking. Chances are, the person they're chasing does not. Wreck city.

adroitcaptor

Actually I was talking to my friend who is a state trooper about the tires they run. I fallowed up @ les schwab and the guy said he could get me 15 x 8 inch steal rims with hard sidewall performance tires. This way my max would look stock with the original hubcaps but benefit from better tires and light rims. The cops run a similar set up so don't think that those steal rims with lame hubcaps equate to no handling.
Justification for wanting hubcaps on a maxima--->To me a car is measure on stock-to-performance ratio. It's all about the sleeper. It is he who has the “last laugh”, not the egotist who put tons of money into his car. Lets see how many chicks he gets when I waste him in my family sedan. ahhh I feel the ego swelling already lol
God bless,
dan

fearthegecko

to put things into perspective: On labor day weekend, A neighboring county got it's highest speeding ticket of 182MPH. Some guy in a Diablo decided to have some fun on the highway, and opened her up. He wound up outrunning 3 or 4 cops, but they called ahead to other departments and the other cops where waiting for him further down the road. When he got into a congested area, the cops boxed him in and pulled him over.

You could have a Mclaren, and you still can't outrun that radio.

Armelius

I agree Sport Compact Car sucks. And if they did have something about the legality of what's legal in every state I would question it and not take it for gospel.

If it is your car you should be able to do whatever mod you want to do to it even if it's limo tint or taking off some emission controls. If you are in a free country that should be policy. Hands off property.

As for the Crown Vic, it is fast with an eight cylinder what do you expect? If they get bumped from behind they blow up so I don't think they want to pass you and slow you down that way. That's why if you fail to stop they push your rear if you have front wheel drive.

ivelweyz

If any of you read the article it said that those are cars being tested to see if they are good enough to be cop cars. It states they are testing these cars to see how they do when they are finally used next year or so....

ivelweyz

Funny that radio quote is used in the magazine...

MaximaEvolution

iTrader: (2)

I think your thinkin' about the pinto, what a beater that thing was

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

What's labelled on the speedo does not necessarily mean the car will go that fast. The 5th gen 3.5 Maximas have 160 mph speedos, but they won't go that fast unless you introduce NOS, an SC or turbo into the picture. All the carmakers have a practice of putting in a speedo that will adequately show the car's capability, and usually a bit more.

When I first got my 98 Maxima, I found it interesting that the car would do every bit of the 140 mph that was labelled on the speedo. I like it

DW

fearthegecko

It's been said more than once in this post.....

good point

ummmm, not exactly. Let's start with yearly inspections. I'd rather spend the +/- $20 a year to know that my car is in good working condition, and that every other car out there is too.
Some emission control laws are absurd, but most of them do make sense, and are there for a reason. Hypothetically, no one was required to have mufflers on their cars, do you realize how annoying it would be to be near any traffic, or to be by a highway? And as far as tint goes, it wasn't until the eary 90's that cops started giving people **** about their tint levels. I can remember that every single one of my cousins' (and their friends') cars windows were tinted to the point that it was like black paint. Then you had a bunch of incidents in the late 80's, early 90's where dudes were shooting cops either through the windows, or rolling them down at traffic stops with the gun right there. Once again, as much as it sucks for the rest of us, it's a law that's there for a reason.
I understand the first part of that paragraph, but what the hell does front-whell drive have anything to do with it? As far as crown vics blowing up: there were tests done on the 2002 police package crown vics that showed that the reinforced rear bumpers had the same problems as the pinto (and some mustangs, bet you didn't know that) did, where if they got rear-ended, the bolts from the bumpers would push right into the gas tank and ignite the occupants.

MaximaEvolution

iTrader: (2)

Maximas Rule!

Armelius

Sure, you pay me 20 dollars every year and I will send you a sticker, license, certificate or other piece of paper saying either your car sucks or exhales improperly or passed with flying colors. This might depend if I want to sell you something I have in stock or can make a quick profit.
I am rather glad we have emission controls so we don't polute canada and europe but quess what...south of our border...no controls. And more acid rain. Talk about weapons of mass destruction. I am just saying if it is your property (of course your car isn't because you are paying taxes on it every year) then you should be able to do whatever, as if you are the inventor.
Tanks don't have windows and it's real difficult to see the driver in a Brinks truck. So, if some traffic cop gets shot I say that is too bad. Maybe he should of seeked safer work where your not fighting bad guys on a day to day basis.

And you say it's a law that's there for a reason. I am not Spock by far and most of those so called laws are administrative in nature. Did you vote for those laws? I think not. Much of those rules are declared illegal if the person fights it. Most people don't though they just cower, pay the price of their so called freedom and say, "we have the greatest country cause we are free." LoL, excuse me, just a lot of weak people who do that.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

Despite the fact that the US has one of the most strict emissions laws for their cars in the world , we still pollute way more than everyone else. Why? because so many of us have cars, and gas is cheap. The rest of the world pays an average of $4/gallon for gas. It's also a cultural thing, with drive up ATMs, Mcds, and even liquor stores in some parts. A 5.7 liter Corvette engine is considered a "small block" V8. And don't get me started about the love of gas thirsty SUVs. It's considered fashionable to be pimpin' on 20s in your new Hummer H2. DOn't forget the Ford Excursion. Only in America. The rest of the world sees 3.0 liters like in the Maxima as quite a big engine. We waste a whole lot of gas.

South of the Border may not have controls, but they don't have all that other stuff either.

DW

Dave Holmes

In most (if not all) states, inspection stations are well regulated. I don't buy the profit angle you suggest. If you suspect an inspection station is gouging customers, report them to your state DOT, and have your vehicle inspected somewhere else.

I live in Louisiana. I don't pay annual tax on a vehicle. It's a one time sales tax at time of sale, like everything else.

Last time I saw a tank on the street was when stationed at Camp Lejeune in '96. Not really an everyday thing for most areas. And tanks are US/state property, therefore exempt from certain state equipment laws. Privately owned tanks would have to meet state registration/safety laws just like farm equipment. Brinks truck drivers are generally very cautious (how many Brinks trucks have you seen pulled over?). And they are a commercial vehicle. Tint and other laws (in Louisiana) are different for commercial tagged vehicles.

Too bad a cop gets shot on a traffic stop? Real good attitude. I take it you've never performed a traffic stop when you can't see the occupants. If you had, you wouldn't have that attitude. Enough said.

Exactly how many "rules" are declared illegal when a person fights it? Laws are in place for a reason. You may not agree with all of them (I don't), but there is a consequence to pay if you don't follow them. And no, you don't get to vote for every single law. Logistically impossible. You get to vote for the people who will enact legislation in accordance with your wishes. Keep in mind that sometimes the person you vote for loses because not enough people agree with their ideas.

A lot of people plead guilty because they ARE guilty and are mature/responsible enough to admit it. Do they like it? No. But not everyone is a coward who looks for every little technical loophole to avoid just punishment for disobeying laws. They accept responsibility for their actions and carry on with their life.

Never been out of the USA have you (excluding Mexico and Canada)? If you had, the comment about the greatest nation wouldn't have been posted. "For those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know".

Have a nice day.

Dave

ivelweyz

Umm, inspections are free...

adroitcaptor

Funny the different directions threads go.
1 SCC is total suckage! I hate the magazine and won’t read it. When some stupid editor is popping off at the mouth how all autos are slow and you can’t run fast with them or take corners because you can’t “engine brake”, I won’t even give the mag a second chance. Honestly how many morons out there slow down there car by downshifting??!!!! One of my favorite mountain roads includes a 100+mph into a 45mph turn. Lets see stupid engine brake that… morons. Manuals are good for matching rpms for smooth power and they generally have one more gear then autos. I’m going to stop whining or I will get myself all ****y.
2 I think we should have better emission laws. Too many ppl in Oregon outside the DEQ area burn more oil then gas, run cat-less, or some other sick thing. I don’t think we should have stupid laws that we can’t swap engines.
3 I hope anyone that runs away from a cop gets his license taken away. Don’t endanger others and I won’t wish your license be removed.
God bless,
dan

fearthegecko

before you bring that up, let's make a comparison of how many people get their inspection legally vs. how many people slip the inspection station some cash and slip by. Okay, now of that (small, comparitively speaking) number, let's see how many people get busted each year for it, and how many people get fired for it. I'm not saying stuff doesen't happen where people can get past it, but for the most part your car has to be legal.

What?!?!?!?!? Comparing acid rain to weapons of mass destruction....right. 2 days ago, you were against emission controls, and now you're worried about acid rain.
I don't know where you are (kinda funny you choose not to reveal where you live), but i don't know of anyone that OWNS (i.e., not making payments) a car that is required to pay a tax on it every year.

i don't know of any situation where a traffic stop would be performed on a tank. Also, i for one would think that the occupants of a brinks truck would be armed, and i think a cop would expect to see a weapon in such a truck, not in a family sedan.
I think you've got the wrong attitude here: "maybe a cop shouldn't be a cop so he doesen't have to face danger". Maybe people shouldn't be running around shooting each other. Maybe we shouldn't live in a society where violence is everywhere. Maybe you should consider the fact that while the cop is walking towards you, and you're worried about the ticket, he's worried about what you're going to do. I fully understand that there are many cops that abuse their authority, and take advantage of their position of power, however, your statement was way off.
No, i said most laws are there for a reason. " I am not Spock by far and most of those so called laws are administrative in nature". What? I don't think administrative was the word you were looking for. Did i vote for those laws? Yes, i voted for the person who proposed those laws, so indirectly i voted for those laws. Most rules are not declared illegal when fought. Are you talking about a case by case basis, as in when a person is cited for breaking the rules, or across the board, as in having a law repealed? either way, you're wrong on both accounts. If i fight a citation in court and win, the law is not repealed, i'm just judged not guilty of breaking that law. and to have a law repealed, it must first be proven that it's a great injustice having said law in effect (i.e. slavery/jim crow laws, etc.)

I honestly don't think that this thread can continue with the way you respond. You make a statement, and when someone proves you wrong, you completely change your view on that subject. When you give an example, you choose something so highly unlikely (A cop pulling over a tank) that of course it can go in your favor. On top of all that, your responses have you jumping all over the place. Are you upset at SCC, or at the american government? Are you mad that tint laws are so tight, or do you really want to watch cops get shot?


I think you're talking about Super Street. I bought 2 issues, and stopped reading after an editor responded to a letter froman auto owner by telling him to sell his car and get a stick or it will never be anything. If anything, I think SCC has stood behind the proliferation of autos being involved in racing, and i think SCC has taken a lot of flack for having that opinion. While the support is still there for old-school manual Big-engine/pure displacement RWD sports cars/sedans, i think that if you read some of the editor's pages, you'll see that they've come to realize that Automatic FWD cars tuned with technology is going to be the future of racing.

I slow down through downshifting.....for a number of reasons, and if we ever find ourselves on the road together, i'll show you why. And i think that people that downshift are less of a moron than those that go 100+mph into a 45 mph turn.

Armelius

Obviously I upset a few people, so I have to respond.
First to Dwap: I don't buy the environmentalist who say our cars are the big polluters. I used to live right next to the biggest power plant polluter on the Ohio River. Lots of sulphur in that coal. Next, they used to put lead in gas. I don't know but that's a lot of cancer if you ask me. Either that or attention deficiet dissorder. South of the border has no controls. Plus they use plenty of deisel. Go to the rain forest in Central America and breath in that deisel on the way there.

Second to Dave: Show me in the law where it says that the government requires you to do business with a business. Don't think you can. You don't pay annual tax? What do you think your plate is? A donation? Result not your property. Matter of fact your title (original) rest in your state capitol. Don't believe me? Look at it. It's really the states car.
Second, just because people don't use tanks (the wheeled kind) doesn't mean people can't have them. The way I see it. You should be able to put a mini-submarine on the road if you can design wheels for it. Show me in the law where a car has to have windows. Which leads to tint. I know of plenty of states that don't allow it. California (socialist) doesn't, I know cause I lived there. Now, doesn't the people of California know that the sun causes cancer? Sounds like a sound reason for a doctors note to me. But guess what? Since doctors are licensed they won't issue a note because it would break the law, they won't even suggest tint. Yes, so much for those handicapped people who can't go out in the daylight.
Third the traffic cop. LET ME ROLE PLAY HERE: I am the cop and see someone breaking the tint laws and pull him over. I step up to the car using caution with my hand on my weapon (holstered). I can make out that it might be a negro due to the silloette, which makes me more suspicious because so many of them are in prison, what is this one doing free. The window is rolled down and he starts making wild hand jesters (maybe he is a rapper), then I shoot him because I thought he had a gun in his hand (if not he will have one). So there you have it, I kept another minority out of our prison. I won't go to jail (at least not likely) because of justifiable homicide and I hide behind a badge. I might get suspended with pay though so I will have to do my moonlighting job at 20 bux an hour. Of course you know all about that being from Louisiana. Yep, good ole south all for states rights and for holding chattel. Then the north addopts the same policies.

Forth: Never been out of the USA? Man I probably been to more places than anyone in this forum including you. Doesn't require much of a response but I could bet you have a flag on your vehicle and something about god bless america. Well, my flag is the first flag of this country (it's a war symbol anyways) and it says "don't tread on me." Me...that's singular meaning for the individual. So go fight your war for your country just leave me alone and don't draft me for your bogus causes. I think the British burned our capitol and drew the lines in the mideast. Now they are our friends and we fight their battles for them. Sounds like something out of 1984 to me.

Personally I think you should put yourself in other peoples shoes and quit doing the one sided thing worshiping the state and all the oppression it represents. Fair trials in the US, I think not. You got a monopoly the American Bar Association on the judicial system and the democratic party not to mention most of the FBI. If it was me on the outside (lets say moslem but I don't believe in an invisible man who is all powerful and bow seven times a day to him) I would look at the western world as an attack on my culture. The did after all go to the UN in Durban, South Africa to try to make zionism a racist ideal that is boderline genocidal. Israel then US walk out...shows solidarity doesn't it. Then we have 9/11. But I am not moslem and personally don't like the Rockefellers (international bankers who are more powerfull than anyone can imagine) and I don't like the NY/NJ port athority which created the twin towers and like the cop I don't think I would put myself in jeopardy working in them. After all didn't those people know that those towers where targets? They where attacked before? Oh, and I have the issue Sept. 10, 2001 Time Magazine where Colin Powell says he isn't going to lose any sleep over Saddam Hussein.
Closing: The country that brings us Saddam (US), Bin Laden and the Afgansi (US under Brezinzski who hand picked Pres. Carter) and next the Iran Contra (we will be there shortly) I really don't have any sympathy or feelings of patriotism, only thing going to be left in this country are licensed professionals (doctors, teachers, nurses and about every job that requires it because we aren't free), Attorneys and the police that enforce their bogus laws that people should not be induced into understanding. After all your under duress when you sign that ticket for window tint too dark.

kingrukus

iTrader: (41)

In the peel region within Ontario Canada, they are currently testing the new Chrysler LX platform cars (Dodge Magnum, Chrysler 300N, etc). They are going to be rwd with the new 5.7 hemi engine in it...probably going to be one of, if not the fastest 4 door cruiser out there.

MaximaEvolution

iTrader: (2)

I sure as he** have an American Flag on my car. And I'm damn proud to be one. If this country is so terrible, then leave. We are overpopulated as it is. I wonder why? Hmmm...

Armelius

Well I am so proud you have a war symbol on your car. Maybe the police will leave you alone. You know sort of like a gang sign. Hmmm. Telling people to leave...sounds like what happened with the Vietnam Conflict (police action setting up a police state) yeah, they went to Canada. Good attitude telling people who believe in being free to leave so all the socialist people can take over. Good one MaxEvo.

fearthegecko

dammit armelius, you're really starting to annoy me.
1. this thread was meant to keep people from posting pointless threads about what is and isn't legal for their car. NOT WHETHER THE LAWS IN EFFECT ARE RIGHT OR WRONG.
2. In reading some of the other posts you've made on the org, i see that you feel that it's necessary to inject your own personal blend of political OPINION into every post, regardless of what the thread is about. That's ridiculous. If you're really that p1ssed at the american government, start a focking movement.
Personally, i don't support the american government, i don't support the war in Iraq, and i don't support a lot of the BS that has been pulled after 9/11 and the BS that was pulled that helped to create the events of 9/11.

HOWEVER, that is my personal opinion, and i do not feel it necessary to explain why i think the US's actions are wrong/right in a thread about laws pertaining to motor vehicles.

and now, since you've had your chance to say what you want about pretty much anything except what the topic is, i'll speak my mind:

Your posts are absurd. They are incoherent ramblings filled with tons of misspelled words (i suppose you're against the english language as well) and the worst use of grammar that i have ever seen. Your political theory is so skewed i don't know where to begin. It sounds like you're a high-school sophomore that decided to flip through a history textbook while on LSD. You've got the mind of a paranoid-schizophrenic, jumping from topic to topic, yet keeping the main theme of the goverment being bad and being against the average citizen.
If you are really that mad about what's going on, do something about it. I've taken an active role in fighting for what i believe for, you sound like the type of person that would rather sit there and complain with your "worldly experience" than actually do something. Which brings me to my next point: If you've been all over the world, what made you choose to settle down in the US? I'm not telling you to get out, but if i have a lot of problems with my job, i find a new one. IF i don't like the area i live in, i move. If the united states is such an oppressive (and it sounds like fascist from the way you talk) why do you choose to deal with it? Or are you just plain lazy, all talk and no action?

now let's talk about some other things. You obviously don't know a single thing about the legal system from this one statement: first of all, it should be "you're". second, you're not under duress, you are voluntarily signing that ticket. Read up on the laws, you don't have to sign for it. You don't have to agree to pay it. You don't have to admit that you're guilty. All that a ticket is is a hardcopy (on paper) that a police officer believes that you broke the law. you can fight it, and you can choose not to pay it. Signing it just means that you recieved it. You do not have to sign for it.

i'm not even going to go into your whole "role-playing" issue with the cop, because obviously you believe that all cops are facists/racist/evil people that do nothing more than abuse their authority. you're wrong. Maybe one day you'll realize that.

I look back on your post, and the more i read it, the angrier i get. You are ignorant, and obviously uneducated. I'm actually afraid that somewhere out there are weaker minded people than yourself that will believe the BS that flows freely from your mouth and follow what you believe. you know Hitler started the same way.

Armelius

fear you start out alright but then turn into what your calling me. Thanks for correcting my grammar I do get tired of typing at times and have other windows open with further distractions outside of this computer.
http://flag.blackened.net/liberty/spunk/Spunk073.txt
If you want to read something. And signing a ticket is agreeing to the terms and conditions of the ticket because it is a summons/fine because if you don't respond or pay they say because you signed you are admitting your guilt. If you don't sign it, let's say in Utah and your from out of state they will arrest you, simple as that, they sure won't mail you the ticket, for dark tint (sticking to what this thread is about).
Oh, you need to use punctuation more.

Dave Holmes

Armelius, you are way out to lunch on your thoughts here (my opinion). And although Fearthegecko and I may not agree on everything (war in Iraq, I was there the first time), I think his post was very valid. And no, I do not agrree with everything the US government has done since 9-11-01.
Signing a ticket IS NOT an admission of guilt. It is a promise to appear for a summons (ever hear of due process? Signature is proof you've been served, and if you don't show up, a warrant is issued for failure to appear unless you take care of it beforehand). You can refuse to sign. That is not a problem. When someone told me they wouldn't sign, I just wrote "refused to sign" on the signature line. I usually had another officer as a witness. And my dash cam tape was placed in evidence. This is definite proof of being served. Or I'd book them for the violation because refusing to sign (a promise to appear) and having an "attitude" tells me they have no intent on appearing in court. Now, on my traffic stops, I explained all of this to the motorist. It became their free choice, and they were informed of the consequences of any decision they made. I don't see how I could have been more fair while still doing the job. And some people went to jail because of THEIR poor decision.

For tint laws, the officer being shot approaching a car is not the only reason for them (although it is a very legitimate concern). Laws like the tint laws are made for public safety. At night, tint sucks for visibility. Mine is 25% in the back (applied before I bought the car, and legal in Louisiana). I actually walk behind my vehicle before backing at night because I don't have good visibility to the rear with the tint. I don't think most people would do that, but I've worked accidents where children/objects were hit because the driver "couldn't" see them due to tint. Enough to persuade me to take a few seconds to check. But judging your personality type by your above posts, you probably wouldn't think of that (I could be wrong, but you seem to be very individualistic. Are you a salesman? Don't others be offended, salesmen are generally individualistic to a degree. Armelius seems to take it to an extreme). Your link of Henry David Thoreau further hammers home my assessment, as I tend to believe he was excessively individualistic. But I could be wrong.

To answer your previous question about a flag on my vehicle, no I don't have one. Nor do I have "God Bless America" on it (although he has, but that might offend an agnostic). I don't feel the need to have either on my car. I've proven my patriotism by action for many years, and will always bear the physical and mental scars from such. I have no doubt to my level of patriotism.

For your personal knowledge, I've been blessed enough to have been to 5 of the 7 continents, and have lived side by side with the people. If you can say the same, whoopee for you. I've been able to see how the "rest" of the world lives. I freely choose to live in the USA. You have that same freedom. And also the freedom to leave if you don't like the majority rules concept here. It's your choice, no one will kick you out. However, your remaining free is based on you following the laws of the land. How many people die annually trying to innocently escape the "tyranny" in the US to live in a different country? Mexico doesn't seem to have a problem with illegal American immigrants. Cuba surely doesn't. Seems to me we are doing something right when people will risk death to come here.

Dave

Armelius

You are very funny Dave. Thought you were police or had a father as one. Very easy to figure that one out. Yeah, I imagine you arrested a lot of poor people being from Louisiana and all. Funny after being charged and convicted people don't get the option of exhile when it's a foundation in law. Ironic you give people a choice to leave before being convicted though. (Aside: looks like people are rising up and trying to repeal those Rockefellar drug laws in New York).
You sound upset about tinted windows but look at the back of a panel van. Can you see the driver at all times? Do they see you? It's a dig at personal property. Clearly you like being non-productive and lock up or take from people who wish to be left alone. I really don't think a true christian would be a cop or a tax collector (about the same thing). Because one of the ten commandments says love thy neighbor or something to that extent (I don't read greek). Like in that post, police seem to be like robots just doing their programmed duty, can't really be heros. A hero would make grave sacrifices with no expectation of reward or recognition.
Why don't you read that constitution that you swore to uphold and protect and tell me where consel means a bar association attorney. See bro, while you where playing cops and robbers as a kid or while they were sending your fathers to war to be killed so you wouldn't get an education the bar association was making sure the justice system would be their justice. Consel means you could have a teacher, preacher, buddhist monk or who ever you thought was smarter than you to help you in your case.

Dave Holmes

Armelius,
You really need to go back to school and take civics over again (and put down George Orwell's "1984").
You obviously have no law enforcement experience and know nothing about tactics based on your panel van observation.
I really didn't care if someone wanted left alone when they were breaking the law or were a danger to society. Hey, Jeffrey Dahmer wanted left alone...
I won't comment on the bible being available in English.
Apparently you have no clue what a hero is if you think a cop can't be one. Cops can and are heroes everyday. Look at NYPD, or LAPD during the North Hollywood shootout for example. Being an individualist, I doubt you can fathom sacrifice of self for others. Sometimes the few sacrifice for the many.
You've been wrong in probably everything you've posted in this thread. And you really should get that chronic paranoia checked out by a professional. There are people who will help you with that.

I won't respond publicly to anymore idiocy in this thread from you.

Have a nice day.

Dave

RichMax

iTrader: (2)

Bear in mind a federal appeals court actually spoke against the practice of continuing high-speed pursuits in California (they banned it, I think) Something to think about...

Armelius

Ok, you named a criminal, but name a hero that is a cop. Don't think you can. A hero is on the tip of everyones tounge. Jessica Lynn (not a hero), people know who she is.

I happen to know a lot of people that want to be left alone. You for instance by not responding to these posts because you know I am right. Civics? Is that the class where they teach you how to be a citizen? Guess I missed that one.
Let me see if 1984 still applies today...yep. Cameras everywhere, people told former enemys are our friends. Goldstien (Al Queda) is an ideology not a well organized movement. Hmmm, what else? Language being changed (this is what is called law). You know Homie you don't know jack crap about law. Bet you don't know what a Special Appearance is...or what the word must means. Go back to your Criminal Justice school and ask for your money back because they cheated (read brainwash) you.

(whole departments are heros now, lol)

USC Justice

iTrader: (7)

Armelius,

Quite simply, you are ignorance personified.

Nothing you have written deserves more comment than that, though I must question your statement that a Hero is on the tip of everyones tongue. It is beyond me that one must be known in order to be a Hero.