Hello all,

I know RSB prevents our car from "leaning", making the inside rear tire more planted to the ground, and make our car to be more "tail happy" during corners.

However, this is what I found the bad effects or RSB:

1. With RSB (mine is Addco), the car is snappier at the limit, and without proper "loading" techniques during cornering, your rear tires either grip or lose it altogether....which normally occurs..

2. During emergency manuever (like changing lane on the highway to avoid an object/people), the car has a big possibility to fishtail with almost no chance to recover during this exercise (normal, enthusiast driver equipped Maxima). This unrecoverable fishtail is caused by....

3. Very unnatural steering angle input to correct the fishtail. When my car fishtails, I only need to correct the steering by about 30 degrees to straighten the car's body even though naturally, you will call an opposite lock (thus, MORE than 30 degrees steering correction).

(by all means, if you do fishtail, even at 30 degrees correction, your steering angle will not go pass the "straight" position...meaning that your steering input is not at the "opposite lock")

4. Maxima with RSB is not for novice drivers driving on public roads due to changes in car's behavior.

For those who have fishtailed with their RSB, and could live to tell the tale, probably know exactly what I stated. When you are modulating to change the steering input, the car always fishtails the other way around. By the time the car fishtailed 3 times (usually by this time you are wondering, hmm...why can't the car do what I want it to do).....it's usually close to impossible to recover.

For those who don't know what I am talking about, you probably could take an empty parking lot covered with fresh snow (making sure it's save and no poles around), goes up to about 40mph or so, and make the car fishtail. Once it fishtails (with accelerator pressed normally), try to correct the steering about 30 degrees. You would find the car's body rocking back to normal position (since when it fishtails the body is slightly rolled) very fast, but you are not travelling straight. By all means, I am not endorsing you guys go out and do this, nor I am not responsible to anything shall you do this.

And.....I am not going to do a boycott/lawsuit or anything to Addco/Stillen (who the hell do I think I am?), but I meant this thread to discuss safety issues with RSB (BriGuyMax's car comes to mind....and several others).

 

I know exactly what you're talking about. A couple of weeks ago I almost died after fish tailing on dry pavement on a narrow construction off ramp. During the turn, the car began to fish tail left and right about 5 times until I finally regained control without hitting the wall. I swear that took 10 years off of my life.

 

I have the RSB in my car along with Eibach pro-kits and tokico blues. Even with my constant my hard driving, the tail has only came out twice, once in wet roads, the other in snow. I think my soft tokico blues are not only holding my car back from handling as well as it could, but it is also keeping the back end relatively soft, therefore not allowing the rear to fly out as easily. That said, when traveling down a twisty downhill road in the wet, doing about 35 - 40 MPH, as I turned and braked at the same time the rear came out all of a sudden, I am guessing this is due to lightness in the rear (downward incline + braking = 75% of weight in front), and as I turned the rear came right out. I countered and it came back out the other way - so I just gave it a lil more gas (what you're supposed to do in a motorcycle if the tail comes out) and the tail came back to its original position.

 

BungsVQ,

You are better driver than I am. I have my gf's Maxima to compare with mine (mine's with RSB, her's not).

When mine fishtails, I ended up with stalled engine (start back up), perplexed feeling, in the median, but no injuries/scratches (thank God the cars behind me is about 30 ft behind, so they don't run me down). I have to rebalance my tires/wheels (grass goes into the gap between rim and wheel) but nothing major.

Oh, the racoon was saved.....good God.

The funny thing was the whole time I was having conversation (hand's free phone) with my gf, and I actually told her in the beginning of the fishtailing to "Babe, hold on a minute....the car...." and she could hear all the tires screeching and all. So, after all's been done, she was more shocked than I was.

Thanks for your comment BungsVQ..... now let's hear the others tell tale. Hopefully someone who has fishtailed with his/her car twice, one with the RSB on and one w/o RSB to share his/her experience.

 

Good point. Softer, more gradual transition from oversteer/understeer during cornering is easier to handle rather than being "snappy" under limit.

Driving hard, like 8/10th or lower does not count though....because you are "sort of" knowing/predicting that the rear will come out, so you adjust your steering input/accelerator accordingly. But at 10/10 or, hell....11/10 (emergency),..man.....


Yup, you are correct, giving it more gas is supposedly "tuck" the rear back into the line, but when mine happened, I was on cruise..... I turned off cruise in the middle of the fishtails, and the car spun 360, ended up in the median.

I never road a motorcycle before.....but I will keep in mind what you said when I learn to drive one.

Thanks for the informative post!

 

i have a RSB too and just wondering what the Maxima's behavior is like at the limits. I was under the impression that the Max still understeers with the RSB. Are you guys just saying that with the right (or wrong) gas/braking input, the Max w/RSB will abruptly oversteer in some situations? I've done some tight circles in parking lots and some joy-riding in snow but never noticed what you guys are describing. But then again, I don't autoX and dont regard myself as the most experienced driver. On open/public roads, I drive very responsibly and am fortunate not to have been in a situation where i have to suddenly avoid an obstruction in the road. opinions?

 

i fishtailed 3 times the night i put the RSB on. almost went off side of an offramp, but i got control back in time. luckiy it was like 3am and no cars were around... it was an addco also. my agx were set at 6 in the rear. so that added to why i fishtailed. i have them at 4 now on soft maxspeed springs..handles alot better IMO now.

im scared because i drive up mountains alot to go snowbaording, and often times take the corners pretty hard to make the 2.5 hour trip more fun. im thinking of re mounting the c clamps on the RSB that connect to the beam closer to eachother. right now they are rigth next to where the bend is on the addco.(stiffest possible setting). i think putting the clamps on closer till will allow more flexing and leaning, but also give more predictale control at the max's limit. i probably wont get around to this project for a few weeks though.someone else try it and tell us how it handles.

any thoughts??

 

I find my car handles very predictably with the RSB. There is a deserted corner (from one street to another) with nothing but field beyond it if I totally F up that I like to take at the limit at times.

If I enter the corner to fast and on the throttle I get understeer, lifting off the throttle causes the front end to dig in and the back end to get loose (oversteer). Getting back on the throttle gently causes everthing to settle down. Car feels very predictable the whole time. Scares the **** out of passengers .

I did some autocross last year and still found that the car mostly understeered. I did want to do some autocross runs with and without the RSB the same day to see what difference it made but I didn't have a chance, hopefully next year.

I have never felt like my car had unpredictable oversteer like you describe

 

Thanks for this thread, I don't have an RSB, but this is something to think about before I get one. As wonderful a driver as I am ( ) safety in emergency situations is important...

I wanted to point something out. How many of you have experience with driving RWD cars at the limit? I know that it's still a different story because of the weight transfer to power relationship, but controlling the car when the rear end gets out is something that you have to learn when driving a rear wheel drive car. What I'm saying is that I wonder whether this is bad behavior of the Max + RSB, inexperience with tail-out driving, or maybe normal RWD problems without the RWD that allows you to deal with the problems by applying power. Just so you know, I have *no* experience with RWD cars at the limit...so I'm not critisizing.

Another thing I think contributes to this is that the Max seems to be shockingly well balanced at the limit for a FWD car. If you're pushing in a corner it's sooooo very easy to get it to stop pushing and bring the rear end around by modulating the throttle. You can even get slight but very even 4 wheel drift if you modulate the power just right in a hard corner. I haven't even been able to really play with the car with my AGX+H&R setup since I haven't had money for summer tires, but I imagine that that just makes the stakes higher by giving you the same basic characteristics at even higher speeds.

I'm wondering if maybe an RSB might not be the right thing for the Max since it's actually pretty well balanced from the jump. Maybe cranking up the AGX's in the rear is all you need. Wasn't there some talk of Autocrossers abandoning the RSB here? Maybe I'm wrong. I wonder how lap times improved or got worse from adding/subtracting the RSB...or adjusting it to it's minimal setting to the max. I mean this *isn't* a RWD car...so maybe being able to hang the tail out isn't such a great thing...just a theory.

 

I'm like Endus here. I do not have a rear sway bar, but it should be in this week. Fortunately for me, I have autocrossed rather extensively, and I feel extremely comfortable in the Max. I am also lucky that I will be able to run the car on a closed course this Sunday with the new bar installed providing it makes it here like it should. Aparently I will need to make some adjustments to the suspension setup. What I really like about this thread, is that my wife drives the max more than I do, and I am a little concerned for her after I install the bar. She has managed to swing the *** end out once on the max, but was able to correct with a single wheel correction. I may need to take her out and let her drive the car to the limit when I go this weekend. I will post again after it is installed.

Thanks
David

 

This may sound silly, but how are your tires? More worn than the front? Too much psi? In "iffy" weather conditions, the Max can be a handful with mediocre rear tires. Max=lots of torque+fwd+light rear-end and needs all the help in the rear. adding an RSB to this can exaggerate and weakness in your tires. I got first hand experience with this last year in the snow, learnt my lesson.
My .02cents (Canadian)

 

subframe connectors are probably a better solution than the rsb to increase structural rigidity and keep the car more balanced in turns.

 

at the speeds you were traveling at andy 265 would not have mattered.

 

Those would be nice but it wouldn't correct the oem severe understeer bias that Nissan designed into the maxima

 

slammed it was pretty boncy around that turn. im pretty sure you hit one of those bumps and lost your traction.

 

refering to endus. my dad has a bmw540i and he used to have a 525i whihc are like two completely diffrent cars but with the 525 i would play around trying to imitate drifts in the rain and purposely get the rear end loose and in the begining i would just spint out but after a while i got the hang of it all i did was counter steer give moderate gas in order to keep the car sideways and with the 540 i took it out for a drive in the rain and it was completely diffrent cause of the whole weigh thing cause the 540 is a v8 and the 525 is a v6 now in the 540 since its so torquey and has lots of power i fishtail it on dry pavemet but in my max last time i fishtailed accendently i banged my front end and rear on a wall so its completely diffrent fishtailing in a rwd car cause u actually can apply power in order to straighting out the car

 

last year i lost control of my friends ford probe on the highway and it fishtailed one way and went the other way 3 times and i eventually gained control so when i fishtailed the max i though i would regain from it since it was at about the same speed but my max behaved more wildly so nissan shouldve done something to upgrade the suspension. my max isnt lowered but im planning droping it as soon as it comes back from the shop but i was wondering if the whole theory about the rsb also apply to lowered max too

 

I remember reading a suggestion that you replace the bushings on the stock fsb with energy sus. bushings. Supposedly balances out the fishtail tendency.

 

why not just adjust the RSB, move the 2 pollyurathane buschings closer together in the middle?

also i LOVE my RSB, the car feels better at high speed then it does stock

 

That is the best stick fight I have ever seen in my punny life!
I love it, lovvvvvvvvveeeeeeeeeeeee it!
That made my day.
Thank you.

 

Also keep in mind that 265s won't have any more contact patch than your old tires if you run the same tire pressure. Remember that pressure x surface area = weight. And as you decrease pressure, you increase the tire's surface area with the ground. That same reasoning is how you can measure the car's weight by measuring only the tire pressure and surface area of the tire on the ground.


To all: This thread has gotten very big very fast and I wanted to chime in and share some of my experience.

For one, it's not just the sway bar that can affect understeer-oversteer ballance, tire pressure, shock settings, chassis flexibility, and spring stiffness can also easily do what a sway bar does in changing oversteer bias.

Another thing to keep in mind, that when modding suspension systems, we are taking what has been tested for years (a safe understeering system) and transforming it into what we want it to be (even without most of us being suspension engineers). So for most of us, it's more of a trial and error means of adjustment.

Also, for anyone caught in a fishtail in a FWD car, the easiest way to pull out of it, is to give it just a little steering correction and press down the gas more. The power to the front wheels will pull the car straight, along with the weight transfer to the rear providing more traction in the back.

When entering corners, brake hard before the corner, get off the brakes and onto 1/4 throttle while you begin your turn and cruise through the corner using the throttle to modulate understeer-oversteer ballance (more throttle = more understeer, less throttle = more oversteer)

 

so what do you guys thikn. should i get a rsb for my max and is it worth it? i want one though but don't want to get into a accident because of it. help me out.

 

what someone already told you above, get the warpseed subframe connectors. After all that everyone's explained above, you still don't know if it's worth it to you or not? Do you go to lapping days at a road course? auto-x? solo? If you don't then prolly not.

 

ok, then.
my bad for asking that q cause somebody got fisty for no freaking reason. i was just asking cause i drive my car everyday. plus subframe connectos are meant for cars that have a old body and it is not stiff. cars with low body milage are just as stiff.
so i will get one no thanks to your reply. newbe

 

ES front sway bar and end-link bushings, along with adjusting the rear sway bar a little on the softer side takes care of this, also if you are running alot of pressure in your rear tires you are asking for it.

 

I fishtailed last winter while driving on interstate I-294 , road conditons were quite bad - rain with snow - road was already icy - made a small steering correction at 45mph and rear end become my front almost instantly

fishtail resulted in car beeing completly out of control - bounced off the concrete highway divider fishtailed more and than hit the same divider with front end - resulting in almost 7k in repairs by body shop full of thiefs.

at this time i had Sprint springs with KYB AGX , Addco RSB , FSTB and brand new Kumho 716 hp tires on stock SE rims

the car with this set-up was stiff as hell - way to stiff for daily driving on Illinois roads.

Now i have learned a lesson and i ride on stock springs with Tokico's HP up front and KYB AGX set at 2 in rear - car leans quite bad now but it feels more predictable and overall safe.

some degree od body lean is neccessary for daily driving.

" let the Maxima be comfortable/roomy sedan with good reliability ,
but don't try making it into something that it wasn't meant to be....."

Nick

 

IMO, a RSB is overkill if you already have springs. The "beam" already has a .70" RSB going through it and the trailing arms are the connection points. Adding another RSB is simply doubling up on what you already have. The lowering springs lower the center of gravity and the extra RSB only introduces suspension bind in tight manuvers. With a stock height suspension, the RSB gives almost the same feeling as going to lowering springs. Motor Trend got better handling numbers with the Stillen Maxima when the RSB was off (Eibachs were used). I had a RSB when I had my Intrax springs and I took it off one night as an experiment. Immediately the car felt far better in turns, especially bumpy ones. It leaned a little more, but I felt like I had a lot more control plus the car was far quicker to turn in. The ride also improved because 20lbs of unsprung weight was removed from the beam. Gone was the spooky twitchiness and unpredictible fishtailing. I now have H&Rs, WSP Stage I/II SFCs, and Motivational strut mounts. I couldn't be happier with the way my car handles. There is still a little understeer, but nothing like stock. Sometimes I can get a slight 4-wheel drift if I push it hard enough and the pavement is grippy.


Dave

 

This discussion is very good so far, many informative infos and all of us having different experience chimed in without any bashing.


Dave B:

Thank you for your post, I really like your point below:

Spooky twitchiness and unpredictable fishtailing.....that's what I currently have. Whenever I am approaching a decreasing radii turn, man, I really have to concentrate if I want to keep my crusing speed during the turn. I really have to steer very carefully. Among tight bends, at highway speed, I also need to concentrate...... cause I know I have a monster in the back waiting for me.

Maxima is a FWD car, and for such, I won't go drifting as if you are having a RWD car with a "tuned" suspension. I know mine would not touch a stock G35 in the corners, but I put the RSB to enhance my handling (read: increase rear grip).

But now, after almost two years with it, I could say that the rear grip does not increase, it actually stays the same. The difference though, with RSB, the rear will stay more planted for a greater G during turning (compared to stock that leans every time), but it obscures the line when rear grip is moves from "grippy" to "yee haaaa".

Without RSB, when you are turning into a decreased radii at a constant speed, it will say something like this (as you advance in the turn): grip...grip...still gripping, almost no grip....no grip...slight fishtailing, more fishtailing...etc.

With RSB, it's like....grip..grip...still gripping...still gripping....still gripping...fishtailing......major fishtailing......etc.

RSB eliminates body roll, but it does not increase the grip at the rear. As a side effect, it also eliminates that "progressive" fishtailing.

 

Good thread and reading. I agree that tire choice, temps, pressures, unloading the rear through braking, and a whole host of other things really come into play as much as the RSB itself.

I've never fishtailed on highway and have only spun twice in 3yrs of autocross (one wet). And I've done everything I can think of to add oversteer (remove FASB, front tires 20mm>rear ones, front track 40mm>rear, Addco RSB at stiffest setting, RSTB, stiffer strut rebound rates. Now I'm trying stiffer rear spring rates for kicks.

ardika, i'll let you know next time I'm at Miller Park and maybe I can understand what you're experiencing more.

 

I don't have a RSB, I know the Maxima leans like a boat when you amke hard turns (stock suspension, Illuminas in the Spring) so I try to avoid any kind of hard turns because it feels like my tires are going to fall off.

 

Drewm,

You've got a very nice site...props for you to have that "Borg-kind" collective information.....

I just want to add a comment on your post below:

This is a very true practice when you are doing a run for those canyon and backroad highways. I believe this is the most correct, straight from the book to handle a FWD car.

However, sometimes, and especially during emergency manuevers, we don't have the space (or nerve since it caught you off-guard) to actually power the throttle (especially we, AT owners). The situation could get worsen so bad that in a split second, power on/off really does not matter.

Having said this, I would not go so far as saying that RSB is unsafe. When I first installed my RSB, my rear suspension is still stock, and it really handles tighter during cornering although I could feel that if there is a bump during the turn, man....the rear will hop around.

When I changed my suspension to Maxspeed and AGX, I could feel that my car turns flatter, although the car is getting harsher. I started to notice that my rear....although it's still tight (the RSB is still on to this day), I observe that steering input is very sensitive (with 17inch tires, 235/45/17).

Now, my car has winter tires.....and you know winter tires are soft as hell. Guess what, my car (with RSB) turns very neutral. As soon as I put a little bit steering input (it's still very sensitive), I could feel the car turn right away. The rear will gradually steps out...and the front will gradually goes in. This is very predictable and this works best for me! But only with winter tires.....

Which makes me think that..... with my summer tires, the rear won't go out gradually (since the tires are grippier than Blizzaks), but it stores the energy in the spring compression at the outer rear tire. Now, since the car no longer leans and the rear cannot step out (due to grippier tires), that "leaning" motion energy is contained in the springs....and since RSB connects the two rear springs more rigid than stock, the springs rate doubled as the compression increases (since RSB also presses the inside rear tire spring) until the rear tires just lose it and the car fishtails. The fishtailing is hard to recover since a very minimal steering input will tuck the rear back in and we will tend to overcorrect it. RSB with summer tires and aftermarket springs is just....well, not really what I could call as a "friendly car" to handle.

I am sorry if this does not make sense.....but if I take you out on an empty road in my car, it will make more sense.

As of now, I think I will put my RSB for sale next summer/spring. It's too much trouble for me to take it off during winter season. Some of the guys here suggest subrame connectors, eh? Hm...... I am thinking about it.

 

Bejay1,

I agree with you. I've never fishtailed when I am taking turns...conciously, you know...like you know the turn is coming and you prepare for it. But during emergency manuevers (11/10th) driving...it's a different ballgame.

Miller Park autocross is very good venue...I was trying to get to it last time, but I could not since I was out of town. But at autocross (and I believe at Miller Park), you barely touch 70-80mph..right? And even then, you only touch those speeds at the end of a long straight with plenty braking distance to prepare for your hard cornering.

The key word is: prepare. You know what's coming and you treat the car the way you want to approach the turn. Now, if the steward goes between the cones to pick up a quarter (yeah, silly example...) and you have to avoid him (hence adding steering input) at before-apex section of the turn (and you haven't braked yet), at 75mph........

 

wow..good thread..i like the different opinions on the rsb.. i didnt know the max had a stock rsb on that is .7 inch thick..im gonna try to soften up the rsb soon by changed mounting points so that they are almost touching in the middle of the beam. hopefully that gives me the best of both worlds.. slight leaning and control plus gripper rear.

how many people have reported better cornering with a lowered max after taking off their RSB??


one off the ball question regarding rsb's.. do u think that the rsb supports some of the weigt of the spring on the beam to the wheels making your rear heigt stance higher.. liek i dropped my car a while back. i have 1 coil cut off the maxspeeds.. but there is still like a 3- finger gap..which i think is too much for a coil cut off maxspeeds. i think if i take off the rsb, it may lower a lil more since the rsb is helping to support some of the spring weight, taking some pressure off the spring= higher ride height.. whatcha think?

 

there is no BMW V6....ever.

 

One time Me, two friends and Sonic Dust 187 were in his car he was driving, and we were coming back to my house from lebanon valley dragway, and we were about to get off of rt 22 onto the mass pike, and Sonic didnt realize the corner was so sharp, there not being signs and him never having driven the route before... well we came up too fast, he tapped the breaks and cut the wheel... I swear i thought the car was RWD for a second! The @ss end kicked right out and we missed a sign post by inches. I drove the rest of the way home... but that was just nuts, i was glad alex was a good enough driver to correct the slide and keep the car on the road...

 

One thing I learned is to cruise through the turns and apply gas only if the car starts to slip. Once was in PA and took a 30 mph posted turn at like 70 and never let the foot off the gas and the max squeeled and slid through the whole turn regaining control after the apex. Took the same turn a few days later a bit faster this time let go of the gas and brake and the car went into a spin huge spin, not thinking applied brakes and I ended up stopping sideways on the road with the front end being a little off the road. Few times took a sharp turn and the max started to slide sideways I just countersteer and apply throttle. I have FSB, Addaco RSB, Eibach Springs, AGX struts, and RE950's Potenza's.

 

It's a good thing for Cattman that this thread wasn't started until AFTER that group buy deal that just finished. haha. But it is very interesting. Is the general consensus that the RSB makes the car less safe, or just less safe for the average driver? Lack of forgiveness aside...are we saying that the car can take corners faster with the RSB, or does the RSB only make it FEEL faster/better on the turns? Also, what's the effect on a stock suspension? People talk about their new shocks making it too tight, so with a stock suspension will that give more lean? It's interesting how, as you make the car faster, you also make it more dangerous (and less reliable, but that's for another thread). Makes sense.

 

I have used a Progress RSB with multiple set ups. FSTB and RSB work well together, add a RSTB and still handles well. Add lowering springs and its still fun. You just need to know the limits of you and your car. I have had the rear slide out a bit, but i kept on the gas. Thats what you have to do to keep the rear end in. The problem is people panic and slam on the brakes when the rear end starts to come out. Understeer + brakes = stop in a straight line Oversteer + brakes = car spins
Seems easy enough but i have paniced on a turn before, but i didnt have a RSB...or any mods for that matter. Now that i drive a little more agressively, i bought suspension mods. As i said i have had the rear end come out, i kept on the gas so i was ok. With the RSB on you cant feel the car or road in wide sweeping turns.....like an on ramp. To this day with the RSB on i wont take long sweeping corners wery fast, 45-50 mph is fast actually too fast for me.. No matter how good (or bad for that matter) my skills are i wont put the car to the limit, heck i dont let the tires break loose. My life is far more important than going wildly fast. I also hate the cars handling on the highway without the RSB. It leans way too much and i feel like im gunna roll over. I love the RSB for everyday driving, but if you like speed and corners...... I took off my FSTB, RSB, and RSTB all in one day, and fir my driving/taste was the worst thing i ever did for handling. I had Intrax on the stock SE struts as my only suspension mod, and i hated every minute of that. A day later i put the FSTB on and still hated the handling. So after a drive on the innerstate at 70-80 mph i decided that the RSB is for me...i put it right back on. Now i have stock SE springs all around with SE struts in front, AGX in rear (set to 4), with FSTB and RSB. I like this set up more then with the Intrax.

My point is... RSB is not the best thing for young drivers, or beginers. Dont take fast turns on the first drive with a RSB. It takes practice and time to adjust to the cars new, more tail happy handling. I have in no way mastered the RSB...that thing owns me.


Oh yeah the RSB induces that awful ossilation of the rear suspension, but ill live with it.

 

Maxima10to1,

I really like and agree with your post, especially the sentences below.

[QUOTE=Maxima10to1] As i said i have had the rear end come out, i kept on the gas so i was ok. With the RSB on you cant feel the car or road in wide sweeping turns.....like an on ramp. To this day with the RSB on i wont take long sweeping corners wery fast, 45-50 mph is fast actually too fast for me.. ........Now i have stock SE springs all around with SE struts in front, AGX in rear (set to 4), with FSTB and RSB. I like this set up more then with the Intrax.

My point is... RSB is not the best thing for young drivers, or beginers. Dont take fast turns on the first drive with a RSB. It takes practice and time to adjust to the cars new, more tail happy handling. I have in no way mastered the RSB...that thing owns me.
[QUOTE]



Combined with softer spring (stock, SE), the RSB will react wonderfully for street driving. I also experience this when I had my RSB with the stock suspension.

However, RSB with stiffer springs (especially those who own Maxspeed, you know what I am talking here) RSB makes the spring too much energy (spring compression) so when the body starts to un-lean (can't think of better terms) it packs a alot of force, which may backfire to you. That's the reason why I was pointing out that with RSB and Maxspeed, I have to be very careful in modulating my steering input, since steering input dictates the body motion tremendously.

I guess I need to experience one more thing before I take off the RSB, which is to move the mounting position to evoke "softer" setting, although I don't think this will help much.

Let's see.

 

Really? I did not know about that. I rarely check other forums other than 4th, 5th, 6th and general forum. I have been wanting to start this thread about 6 months back.....the time where there are so many accidents, and one of them involves BrianV's car (the one he sold to someone else here in the forum).

What strikes me was the fact that what the victim described matched my impression during accident. It's not one of those case that we take out a corner too fast, or racing with somebody. Both of us were trying to avoid something but the car behaves very evil.

I decided not to post it at that time, but instead, I try to observe the accidents that were caused my emergency manuevers....and try to find out whether the car has RSB or not. There are not that many, but all drivers described that the car behaves hellishly when they are trying to recover.

I once recovered a sliding Mercury Grand Marquis in Detroit. I was with my friend at that time, and the car lost it going after a few bumps. Traffic was behind me, but I got the space and enough skill to bring it home smoothly. I was surprised when my Max behaves like hell just to avoid a racoon last summer.

Now, equipped with winter tires, I could say that something like this has a lesser chance of happening since Blizzak is not known to hold high skidpad grip in the dry/wet/snow. This means that my rear will step out gradually (instead of snapping like hell) at the first hint of loading the rears.

Good series of questions. I would say that RSB makes the car less friendly to average driver. Moving to your next question, the car with RSB would take a corner as fast as the one without RSB. However, RSB changes your perception of the car's ability (it makes you believe that it will stay flat during cornering, but it actually does not increase the rear grip). So, yes, it makes you FEEL that you could take a corner faster. The effect on stock suspension? I would say that the effect was favorable, due to lower spring rate. But this is just my experience, and yes, it will give more lean with stock suspension compared with stiffer aftermarket springs.