I have read several threads about the pro's and con's of an aftermarket midpipe combined with a cone filter like K&N. I'm more interested in an HAI setup and would like some input from everyone so I created a poll. I'd like to hear more from people with K&N + MAF adapter + midpipe combo who's driven their cars w/o the midpipe before, and then later on added the midpipe and noticed some increase in performance. I'm not really concerned about how loud one or the other is. Please vote and if you would like to make some comments, long or short, please do as long as its relevant to the subject.

-Thanks.

 

i have heard it does not do to much for ya with a mid-pipe exept make it alot louder. BUt supposly during hot weather it make throddle response slower.

 

i prefer the midpipe with the k&n, tried it both ways for a while and i just liked the better high end power from 3k+. Throttle response goes down a bit when you sit at a light for example, but it goes away once you get moving. The slight low end loss is barely noticable and i wouldnt have it any other way.

 

Ya i fell a stronger high rpm pull with the mid pipe.

 

Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for!

 

The mid pipe you guys are talking, is it the box after the MAF and before the TB ???

 

i ran with just a jwt popcharger before i got the frankencar intake. With just the popcharger you get a little better throttle response off the line as opposed to the mid pipe + popcharger (stock seems to have the best throttle response). When i put the frankencar on i definitly felt a little lost low end but once you get moving and really mash it you can feel it pull hard top end. However, these are all butt dynos and i try to be as unbaised as i can by not letting the extra noise of the midpipe excite me, but i couldnt stop smiling.

 

Yep, the midpipe replaces the intake resonator, its the one that has 3 hoses that connects to it.

 

So adding the midpipe to the Popcharger lessened the low end response? If that's so, why did you go with the Frankencar? It has the same setup: cone filter + midpipe.

 

I dunno about u guys but the popcharger alone has the worse low-end. Many other people would agree. B4 I added my mid pipe to my Popcharger, the off the line accelration was horrible. Felt like I was sitting there for 2 seconds b4 the car even moved. MId pipe inproved the low end but it still wasn't as good as stock. but as for the high end, much improved. HAI is the best setup. ask people that have been doing this stuff for years and that have done real dynos. HAI is better then CAI & popcharger.

 

I have a 5speed guys, I'm not sure if gains are different between 5speeds and autos. I should have added two more items to the poll.

88MaximaSE, correct me if I'm wrong. The HAI has the cone filter + midpipe. The popcharger is a cone filter only but it has that thing, I can't remember exactly what to call it, something like air stack or something like that?

 

A popcharger attached to the stock intake resonator is probably the worstset possible. The only good out of it is the noise at WOT. Putting a hight flow filter (cone filter) to a stock intake resonator sounds like a good idea for better low end power, but in actuallity the air flow is so great that back pressure wouldn't be created in the stock intake resonator do to the high air flow from the cone filter and extreme turbulant pattern that is created from this setup. The back pressure the stock intake made on the resonator was designed for that amount of air flow. Only way I can see a popcharger working fairly well at low end is mabye with the addition of a cyclone? HA HA

 

Check this thread out. It starts out pro-HAI but changes at the end with a trip to the track. The reason there is'nt a clear cut answer for our intakes is because none of them overwhelmingly out performs the other. It's mostly up to personal preferences, i.e. sound, appearance, ease of installation, throttle response, top end perfomance, etc. Just get the real facts, not over stated and unproven gains, and then choose yourself.

 

I've read that entire thread and of course the biasness is towards the intake resonator over the midpipe as it was proven on the track. That's why I created this poll to get everyone's opinion on both sides of the subject. I also ruled out the sound preference at the beginning of this thread because I really don't care to have that "get the F out my way" kind of a sound coming from my car. I'm just asking for everyone's personal experience, not dyno facts, because how much HP can you really gain from an intake?...not significanly much. So I'm going by butt dyno. I'm not concerned about track times either, I just want a little more of an edge with daily driving, but the more of it the better.

It's also interesting to note, based on that thread, that eventhough the midpipe is the obvious choice for performance because of its higher flowing design, it only shows up at higher RPMs. The VQ isn't a high revving motor, so we can't take advantage of the increased flow of the midpipe and we can't feel it so much either since we have a big torque drop-off up top. Now MEVI equipped VQ's are different in that aspect.

 

What are we talking about here, 5 hp altogether? To get the facts straight, a mid pipe will add what 0.01 hp (I'm throwing out numbers here, but it's minimal) and just the weather alone can change hp (and 1/4 mile times, not to mention driver error). After using a resonator taking it off to put on a mid pipe and back again, I don't think a mid pipe has much effect on 1/4 mile time anymore. Think about it. The hp difference has to be so small it would become insignificant. BUT I do think off the line a CAI tube and stock resonator works marginally better, especially for the auto tranny. Then for top end we all know short ram (pop charger/HAI/hybrid) is best. You can say you feel a difference, but I'm sure it's the placebo effect.

I know we all know this but I feel like sharing. The Stillen and JWT intakes are popchargers; they have always been called this. These consist of a velocity stack/MAF adapter and open element air filter with a huge outlet. Also there is a short ram. This consists of an open element air filter and MAF adapter, is called the HAI (Hot Air Intake). This could be considered a popcharger too. Then there is the Place Racing CAI (Cold Air Intake) which consists of a mid pipe, MAF adapter, and an extension tube for cold air. One other semi-CAI is the Ingen CAI. It has a mid pipe, MAF adapter, and extension tube, but runs under the batter behind the radiator. Finally there is the Frankencar hybrid intake. This consists of a HAI setup with the addition of a mid pipe, from a CAI, hence hybrid.

To answer your question I like the mid pipe + cone filter because its louder then the resonator.

 

So your preference is mainly based on sound, everthing else is just placebo effect. Thanks for your input.

BTW, I just finished reading this article: http://www.users.bigpond.com/pgscott...resonator.html ,
posted in another thread explaining intake resonators. Interestingly, this article has proven the fact that for NA engines, resonators are ideal over custom/midpipes. Specific road tests with a stop watch revealed that it actually made the car go slower! Dyno testing was performed by a magazine to verify the findings done by the Society of Automotive Engineers. They found that complete removal of the resonator saw a steady loss of power throughout the rev range of 4kW (7% loss!! peak power was 55kW). Furthermore, the article referenced another article which points out the difference between filling a cylinder with air and just straight out flow. The resonator actually helps fill the engine with more air since it is a cyclic event, not a continuous flow as such. The resonator acts as an extra reserve of air to fill the cylinder with more air. Only applies to naturally aspirated engines, so if you turbo or supercharge the engine then you may as well get rid of it.

So, I guess I'm dismissing the idea of getting a midpipe.

 

i cant get the link to work but would be interested in its content. i recently ditched my midpipe to get rid of some noise. i ended up with what i feel as better low and mid response. as for high end, i am sure i was having a vacuum problem in my 5th gen. the tip for the vacuum line for the variable intake was not drawing in enough air and putting the stock resonator revived the pull up top. im much happier with the lower sound and better response and properly working VIAS.

 

Just try the link again, it didn't work for me a few times. I guess because a lot of people are trying to get to this article.

 

ive seen the article before so id love to see this proven on a maxima. its funny most dynos have an error factor. Lets make it 5%, so if we have 200 hp would that mean there is a possible error of 10 hp. this means you may not see a difference between runs or you could see an improvement, or dare i say a loss. Speaking of resonators, the 95 Maxima and 96 I30 have an extra intake resonator, it comes off the regular resonator and attaches where the boost pressure on 96+ maximas sits. What is up with that?

 

in retrospect, I don't know if it did that much for us downlow, but up top yeah.... one thing I can say for certain is that it changes the sound of the JWT popcharger, you get a nice vvrrrrroom kinda towards the end of the rev.

I have some sound clips I can upload if you want a sound comparison on popcharger vs. midpipe + popcharger...

BUT, I will say this, after getting the injen and running at the track, injen helped most overall, vs. popcharger and midpipe (plus it looks mighty good when you lift your hood at the track)
A true CAI prolly would be even better but I don't know from experience.

Is there any reason you are choosing Cone + Midpipe over CAI ??

 

We'll I just want improved street/hwy driving. I know CAI is more geard for track, plus the engine runs out of breath with CAI at the top end. Most importantly, I don't want to spend too much on intake or for the most part any mod since I am not going to keep this car forever. I intend to sell it and get an SUV by the end of the year.

 

with midpipe. you get colder air off of the line, but the piping isnt long enough to hurt your top end.

 

Not sure how you can get cold air with the midpipe unless its connected to a CAI pipe that routes the filter in another compartment isolated from the engine?

 

its against the fender well further from the engine. also thats by the stock intake piping/silencers/resonators. it would get colder air

 

This is exactly why i'm switching over to a CAI.

 

I was thinking....what if I somehow incorporate the 2nd intake resonator (smaller piece that's connected to the main resonator) with the midpipe? The 2nd intake resonator will act as a reservior or air buffer. I wonder if that will help the low end any.

Has anyone tried this?

 

I read about half of this before my bull**** detector finally broke. My 2 cents...

Since there's almost no difference between the HAI and the stock intake in terms of HP, there is going to be almost no difference between having a mid pipe and not. I would say that the main difference is probably just cramming the cone as faaaaaaar over to the left as possible so that it gets as much cold, and as little hot, air as possible.

The midpipe and cone is horrible when it's hot out. I am even thinking of changing my intake because of this. Very hot summer months make the car even slower than it would with the stock intake.

The reason that I have, so far, kept the cone and midpipe is that the throttle response is better with it. People saying anything else don't know what they're talking about. If you drive a 5 speed and rev amtch your downshifts you will see a noticeable difference in throttle response when blipping the throttle during downshifts. That makes complete sense since the stock intake is huge and convoluted and it seems entierly reasonable that it would be easier to get the air flowing in from the HAI than it would from the stock mess of pipes.

DaveB was on some jag about how having the resonator was so much better and he and someone else gave me all kinds of links with all this scientifical type evidence of why you just absolutely had to have a resonator. However, I beleive that he has since abandoned this idea. Not sure why, I think he might have said that it was because his 1/4 times didn't improve with the resonator installed. You'd have to ask him though...and I believe this was with a CAI.


Oh, and for the love of god the "throddle" response is not affected by the heat. The power is, and significantly so...but the throttle response is the same in the cold and the hot with the midpipe/cone setup.

Last edit I promise: yea the threads and relevant reonator info has been posted here. The only thing I would say is that I do not think that the resonator or lack thereof makes as significant a difference as one might expect. I've noticed the throttle response...that's about it. I will probably go to a place racing cai this sumemr though...or a hacked airbox...but we'll see.

 

I read the entire thread, some 153 posts! He reverted back to the hacked airbox and midpipe because he ran best with it in the track. He also said that he's tried different combinations of CAI, HAI, midpipe, and resonator and there were no real differences in ET/MPH. Lastly, he chose the hacked air box/midpipe setup because of it's responsiveness and sound above 3000rpms. I got the HAI for the very same reason, responsiveness. And I only spent $40 bucks for the K&N and MAF adapter, you can't beat the price so I'm not expecting a miracle from it. But I'm just too curious to find out if the 2nd resonator + midpipe would make a real difference. When I get the time to make the homedepot midpipe, I'll put this idea to the test. But for now, I have the K&N cone filter + MAF adapter w/ intake resonator and I'm pretty content with it....for now.

 

of course its not affected by heat...last time i checked by car didnt have a "throddle"