Stone Racing Header/Y-pipe Review
02-06-2004, 12:50 PM
#41
Originally Posted by JNCoRacer
Jeff, did you forget to mention that your car was 'freaky fast' to begin with?
BTW...Feb 20th I'll get to change that little 1/4 mile time in my siggy too.
02-06-2004, 12:52 PM
#42
Originally Posted by meccanoble
just my thoughts. I wouldnt mind giving up 5-10 dollars to have someone test out these headers/y-pipe seperate...
02-06-2004, 02:17 PM
#43
Not DAVEB the parts guy
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,555
Originally Posted by MrEous
Well...DaveB already said that other 4th gens with the same mods (before headers) are making just about the same power.
Dave
02-06-2004, 03:12 PM
#44
They will have to sell the headers seperate ,because i'm not throwing $400 down the drain by getting rid of my cattman y-pipe . I'll buy the shortys seperate. Have them put on with my 2000 engine.
02-06-2004, 06:34 PM
#46
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 182
Stone Headers/Y-pipe GroupBuy Info
Guys,
I am working on getting 2 Groupbuys.
1) The Stone Racing headers/Y-pipe (With complete gasket set) at very special introductory price.
2) Headers alone for those who already have the y-pipe and/or want to do a Turbo project at a special price too.
Sorry the Y-pipe is not available for sale alone.
MSRP for the complete set is $599 plus shipping and handling. Groupbuy price are to be set soon, however, it would be very aggressive.
Now I will start uploading Dyno Graphs and dyno runs...
Nashua.
I am working on getting 2 Groupbuys.
1) The Stone Racing headers/Y-pipe (With complete gasket set) at very special introductory price.
2) Headers alone for those who already have the y-pipe and/or want to do a Turbo project at a special price too.
Sorry the Y-pipe is not available for sale alone.
MSRP for the complete set is $599 plus shipping and handling. Groupbuy price are to be set soon, however, it would be very aggressive.
Now I will start uploading Dyno Graphs and dyno runs...
Nashua.
02-06-2004, 07:31 PM
#48
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 182
Dyno Graphs and files
Here is the 95-99 Maxima Stone Racing Headers/Y-pipe Before and After Dyno Graphs:
Wheel STD Horse Power Gain:
Wheel STD lb.ft Torque Gain:
Actual before Dyno files:
http://home.comcast.net/~beiruty/Maxima/MrEous.001
http://home.comcast.net/~beiruty/Maxima/MrEous.002
http://home.comcast.net/~beiruty/Maxima/MrEous.003
Actual After Dyno files:
http://home.comcast.net/~beiruty/Maxima/MrEous.004
http://home.comcast.net/~beiruty/Maxima/MrEous.005
http://home.comcast.net/~beiruty/Maxima/MrEous.006
Dynojet Viewer can be downloaded here:
http://www.dynojet.com/viewer/RunViewer7.0.1.0.zip
Enjoy
Nashua.
Wheel STD Horse Power Gain:
Wheel STD lb.ft Torque Gain:
Actual before Dyno files:
http://home.comcast.net/~beiruty/Maxima/MrEous.001
http://home.comcast.net/~beiruty/Maxima/MrEous.002
http://home.comcast.net/~beiruty/Maxima/MrEous.003
Actual After Dyno files:
http://home.comcast.net/~beiruty/Maxima/MrEous.004
http://home.comcast.net/~beiruty/Maxima/MrEous.005
http://home.comcast.net/~beiruty/Maxima/MrEous.006
Dynojet Viewer can be downloaded here:
http://www.dynojet.com/viewer/RunViewer7.0.1.0.zip
Enjoy
Nashua.
02-06-2004, 07:49 PM
#49
Nice numbers, it looks to me like you are making more power than with Y pipe alone, but unfortunately since our requests were ignored once again, we still don't know exactly what gains the HEADERS ALONE give over and above the gains of the Y-pipe. It's amazing to me that so many people can say the same thing and have the requests still ignored. Unbelievable.
02-06-2004, 07:49 PM
#50
here's my pros and cons:
pros:
- i see a good WHP/WTQ throughout the entire RPM.
- not bad for its price
- the header looks like high quality, not some cheap krap
cons:
- installation seems hard without professional
- fitment issues
cons for people in CA:
- i doubt stone racing have CARB for their header, that means the header needs to be swapped out every 2 year for emission (high possibility failing visual inspection), which could be pain in the butt...
but yea... very nice setup man
pros:
- i see a good WHP/WTQ throughout the entire RPM.
- not bad for its price
- the header looks like high quality, not some cheap krap
cons:
- installation seems hard without professional
- fitment issues
cons for people in CA:
- i doubt stone racing have CARB for their header, that means the header needs to be swapped out every 2 year for emission (high possibility failing visual inspection), which could be pain in the butt...
but yea... very nice setup man
02-10-2004, 07:29 PM
#51
Nealoc, look back, i asked the same thing again in this new thread. Oh well. Buy because they're shiny i guess? It's funny how Don managed to gain next to nothing, maybe that's why they won't answer our questions.
LEMAR
LEMAR
this is terrible marketing
02-11-2004, 02:35 AM
#57
Newbie - Just Registered
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Posts: 1,424
This whole thing amazes me. Of course you are going to see gains when you compare bone stock vs. headers/ypipe. Even if the headers *stole* power, you'd still see significant gains. These dynos tell us nothing about the headers, which is what everyone is interested in.
There seems to be a communication breakdown somewhere.
There seems to be a communication breakdown somewhere.
02-11-2004, 04:00 AM
#58
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 182
Guys,
The headers alone will show positive gain on their own. No question about that. We are offering a kit that maximizie the WHP/WTQ gain and has an advantage on the competition.
If you want the headers alone since you have already a y-pipe or you are doing a special turbo project, then I will do that, on NA application you would expect 5-10 WHP and 5 lbft of torque at wheels. On SC/Turbo is a totally different story!
I will announce the GB prices later today.
Nashua.
The headers alone will show positive gain on their own. No question about that. We are offering a kit that maximizie the WHP/WTQ gain and has an advantage on the competition.
If you want the headers alone since you have already a y-pipe or you are doing a special turbo project, then I will do that, on NA application you would expect 5-10 WHP and 5 lbft of torque at wheels. On SC/Turbo is a totally different story!
I will announce the GB prices later today.
Nashua.
02-11-2004, 05:04 AM
#59
Originally Posted by Nashua_Night_Ha
Guys,
The headers alone will show positive gain on their own. No question about that. We are offering a kit that maximizie the WHP/WTQ gain and has an advantage on the competition.
If you want the headers alone since you have already a y-pipe or you are doing a special turbo project, then I will do that, on NA application you would expect 5-10 WHP and 5 lbft of torque at wheels. On SC/Turbo is a totally different story!
I will announce the GB prices later today.
Nashua.
The headers alone will show positive gain on their own. No question about that. We are offering a kit that maximizie the WHP/WTQ gain and has an advantage on the competition.
If you want the headers alone since you have already a y-pipe or you are doing a special turbo project, then I will do that, on NA application you would expect 5-10 WHP and 5 lbft of torque at wheels. On SC/Turbo is a totally different story!
I will announce the GB prices later today.
Nashua.
do you think we're morons? people have seen up to 20 WHP with just a y pipe, if you take ur gains and subtract 20 from that u can be in the negatives WITH ur headers. you have absolutely no proof that the headers ALONE will provide 5 - 10 WHP, we asked you about a million times to dyno it the right way but you didnt.
Everyone on this board knows what a y-pipe can add. you just basically confirmed that a header doesnt add anything good luck making some sales
02-11-2004, 07:09 AM
#61
Originally Posted by Nashua_Night_Ha
on NA application you would expect 5-10 WHP and 5 lbft of torque at wheels. On SC/Turbo is a totally different story!
Smart business move though.
02-11-2004, 07:13 AM
#62
You'll need to shut the f@ck up. Damn, he spent alot of money and time to get this out. If he did not do a good enough job, don't but them and shut up. I am tired of you people *****ing. I does not own a maxima and he had to send out the products to get tested. I think anyone want to go and spend $200 to get the shorty headers tested(stock dyno and dyno with shorties installed after they have been driven around for awhile so ecu can compensate). He had brought a product out for us for a resanable price, be happy.
02-11-2004, 07:31 AM
#64
First of all...work on your grammer a tad:
You will need to shut the **** up? When?
not a word...
You're missing a simple point. There are 100's of guys on here that already have an aftermarket y-pipe. There's a HUGE demand for just the headers only.
If he would have been smart enough to prove that they provide gains, he'd sell a ton of them. He flat out ignored that request, so now I doubt that he'll sell many sets.
Sure, he can do whatever he'd like. They are his product, and they look quite nice. However, why you wouldn't do this test (unless you think/know you can't back up your claims) is beyond me.
Originally Posted by spanishrice
You'll need to shut the f@ck up.
alot
I does not own a maxima and he had to send out the products to get tested.
You're missing a simple point. There are 100's of guys on here that already have an aftermarket y-pipe. There's a HUGE demand for just the headers only.
If he would have been smart enough to prove that they provide gains, he'd sell a ton of them. He flat out ignored that request, so now I doubt that he'll sell many sets.
Sure, he can do whatever he'd like. They are his product, and they look quite nice. However, why you wouldn't do this test (unless you think/know you can't back up your claims) is beyond me.
02-11-2004, 07:42 AM
#65
Not DAVEB the parts guy
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,555
Originally Posted by MrEous
Up to 20hp gains from a y-pipe alone? Just curious, who? I'd like to contact them.
Dave
02-11-2004, 08:11 AM
#66
Ok, I'm so happy the ORG is back so I can reply to this topic...
As Jeff (MrEous) mentioned in his first post, me, him, and two good friends within DNE all did this install. From that experience alone, forgetting the fact that the y-pipe was the biggest POS i've ever seen, these things are in every way shape and form WORTHLESS IMO.
The front header wasn't to bad to get to and replace. Take the fans out and it's pretty easy to get to all the header bolts, except one. One of the AC lines is directly in the way of one of the bolts, but luckily I had bought a wobble just the week before. The rear was a flat out pain in the ***. Somewhere in the poor excuse for instructions we received, they mentioned taking out the cross member to make it easier to get to the rear header, but i'm not sure if that would have helped as much as it said. We ended up taking the intake manifold off which I can do in 30 mins tops due to a nightmare I put myself in a while back. Side note, a long time ago I took mine off for fun (yes, just for fun) and cleaned the WHOLE thing out. After inhaling fumes for a while we were pretty happy and there was a ton of black liquid coming out. Once we put everything back together, my top end had a night and day difference in performance. Just an FYI. So, we took it off to get to the rear header and it was a pain in the a$$ to get out. Some of the bolts you could get from below and some from above. We removed a lot of the heat shields between the rear manifold and the firewall. The heat shield on the manifold itself we literally BEAT to $hit to get out of our way. I don't see how anyone can get to a few of the bolts without getting that POS out of the way first. The other problem that caused the most pain and is technically still a problem is the EGR tubing on the rear manifold. I'm not sure what maxima they were basing these off of, but my 95 GXE and Jeff's 99 SE-L both had the exact same design and the headers were so off it wasn't even funny. If you look at the left manifold plurco posted, that's the rear, and that tube thing is supposed to hookup to the EGR tube that feeds into the EGR system. That thing has got to be 6 inches too long! I was furious. Some nice people at Lowes cut the pipe for us but could not flare the end like it's supposed to be. We basically hooked it up and put a lot of high temp sealant on the connection.
Once we finally got the headers on I was so relieved, considering we had spent a good solid 10 or 11 hours on this and I was ready to put the y on and be done. Sure enough the rear flange on the y was so off it was nuts. Luckily I work in a sheet metal fab shop and we could try to fix the problem but that was easier said than done surprisingly. Putting the stock y pipe on the aftermarket headers was a joke. The first time we basically had to bang the damn thing on. Later, after taking it off and putting it on 5 times, it got easier each time.
Another note about the headers being worthless is the fact that they are a stainless steel remake of the stock design. These headers are NOT equal length (far from it) but they should in theory allow a bit more exhaust flow. And to add to another argument, the cattman headers aren't equal length either. The y pipe part has the curve to make that part equal lenght, but if you pay attention to the actual smaller pipes that meet up with the rest of the piping, those are not equal length, so it defeats the purpose of having the rest be equal length.
So, in conclusion, these things are worthless. We all know from all the pics that the manufacturing quality of the prototypes were horrible including the fact that the studs on the manifolds themselves that bolt up the y pipe were bolts you can get from Home Depot just welded in. The EGR part was just all f*cked up and requires outside fabrication that really can't be done at any regular shop. For the slight power increase that you MIGHT be getting over just an everyday aftermarket y pipe, it's not worth the install pains and cost.
I can't give a big enough thumbs down to these things.
As Jeff (MrEous) mentioned in his first post, me, him, and two good friends within DNE all did this install. From that experience alone, forgetting the fact that the y-pipe was the biggest POS i've ever seen, these things are in every way shape and form WORTHLESS IMO.
The front header wasn't to bad to get to and replace. Take the fans out and it's pretty easy to get to all the header bolts, except one. One of the AC lines is directly in the way of one of the bolts, but luckily I had bought a wobble just the week before. The rear was a flat out pain in the ***. Somewhere in the poor excuse for instructions we received, they mentioned taking out the cross member to make it easier to get to the rear header, but i'm not sure if that would have helped as much as it said. We ended up taking the intake manifold off which I can do in 30 mins tops due to a nightmare I put myself in a while back. Side note, a long time ago I took mine off for fun (yes, just for fun) and cleaned the WHOLE thing out. After inhaling fumes for a while we were pretty happy and there was a ton of black liquid coming out. Once we put everything back together, my top end had a night and day difference in performance. Just an FYI. So, we took it off to get to the rear header and it was a pain in the a$$ to get out. Some of the bolts you could get from below and some from above. We removed a lot of the heat shields between the rear manifold and the firewall. The heat shield on the manifold itself we literally BEAT to $hit to get out of our way. I don't see how anyone can get to a few of the bolts without getting that POS out of the way first. The other problem that caused the most pain and is technically still a problem is the EGR tubing on the rear manifold. I'm not sure what maxima they were basing these off of, but my 95 GXE and Jeff's 99 SE-L both had the exact same design and the headers were so off it wasn't even funny. If you look at the left manifold plurco posted, that's the rear, and that tube thing is supposed to hookup to the EGR tube that feeds into the EGR system. That thing has got to be 6 inches too long! I was furious. Some nice people at Lowes cut the pipe for us but could not flare the end like it's supposed to be. We basically hooked it up and put a lot of high temp sealant on the connection.
Once we finally got the headers on I was so relieved, considering we had spent a good solid 10 or 11 hours on this and I was ready to put the y on and be done. Sure enough the rear flange on the y was so off it was nuts. Luckily I work in a sheet metal fab shop and we could try to fix the problem but that was easier said than done surprisingly. Putting the stock y pipe on the aftermarket headers was a joke. The first time we basically had to bang the damn thing on. Later, after taking it off and putting it on 5 times, it got easier each time.
Another note about the headers being worthless is the fact that they are a stainless steel remake of the stock design. These headers are NOT equal length (far from it) but they should in theory allow a bit more exhaust flow. And to add to another argument, the cattman headers aren't equal length either. The y pipe part has the curve to make that part equal lenght, but if you pay attention to the actual smaller pipes that meet up with the rest of the piping, those are not equal length, so it defeats the purpose of having the rest be equal length.
So, in conclusion, these things are worthless. We all know from all the pics that the manufacturing quality of the prototypes were horrible including the fact that the studs on the manifolds themselves that bolt up the y pipe were bolts you can get from Home Depot just welded in. The EGR part was just all f*cked up and requires outside fabrication that really can't be done at any regular shop. For the slight power increase that you MIGHT be getting over just an everyday aftermarket y pipe, it's not worth the install pains and cost.
I can't give a big enough thumbs down to these things.
02-11-2004, 08:16 AM
#68
Not DAVEB the parts guy
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,555
Originally Posted by spanishrice
You'll need to shut the f@ck up. Damn, he spent alot of money and time to get this out. If he did not do a good enough job, don't but them and shut up. I am tired of you people *****ing. I does not own a maxima and he had to send out the products to get tested. I think anyone want to go and spend $200 to get the shorty headers tested(stock dyno and dyno with shorties installed after they have been driven around for awhile so ecu can compensate). He had brought a product out for us for a resanable price, be happy.
If I owned a business, I'd understand that you must invest your own money in the product and do R&D to prove your product is better than the competition. I don't know why it's so hard for companies that sell headers to understand that we need to see a headers vs y-pipe dyno plot. Why someone who didn't have a y-pipe was considered as the test mule is beyond me. Do you not see why we have a problem with this? If you're going to introduce a product be prepared to spend the money to prove that it works. The company can even dyno one of their own cars as long as they have a third party from the Org come in and watch the dyno to make sure the dyno operator doesn't adjust dyno setting and correction factors to show fake power gains. A $1000 investment upfront and proof of gains would definately pay for itself in the long run.
If I ever consider making parts, I will dyno religously. If the part doesn't make useable power, it won't be sold. I'd also not require my test car clients to pay for testing or install. I'd only ask them to pay for the cost of the part assuming that it makes power. I'd also make them sign a document saying they agree to the stipulations.
Dave
02-11-2004, 09:12 AM
#69
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 182
BlueBOB,
Let me say 2 Words:
1) The Prototype you had were only a PROTOTYPE! Whatever, fitment issues you had would be corrected.
2) The headers/Y-pipe are NOT worthless, You witnessed the Dyno and good gains were proven. MrEous Dyno is just the proof.
Getting up 18 WHP and at least 15 lbft of torque for less than $599 is great value for your dollar!
Nashua.
Let me say 2 Words:
1) The Prototype you had were only a PROTOTYPE! Whatever, fitment issues you had would be corrected.
2) The headers/Y-pipe are NOT worthless, You witnessed the Dyno and good gains were proven. MrEous Dyno is just the proof.
Getting up 18 WHP and at least 15 lbft of torque for less than $599 is great value for your dollar!
Nashua.
02-11-2004, 09:17 AM
#70
I understand they were prototype, I really do. But the EGR thing should have been OBVIOUS in the design phase.
And how can you say these things are worth $599 when an expensive aftermarket y pipe is $250 and it gets almost the same numbers. MAYBE 1 or 2hp less. Are you honestly telling me that an extra $350 is worth spending for 1 or 2hp.
And how can you say these things are worth $599 when an expensive aftermarket y pipe is $250 and it gets almost the same numbers. MAYBE 1 or 2hp less. Are you honestly telling me that an extra $350 is worth spending for 1 or 2hp.
02-11-2004, 09:24 AM
#71
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 182
Originally Posted by BlueBOB
I understand they were prototype, I really do. But the EGR thing should have been OBVIOUS in the design phase.
And how can you say these things are worth $599 when an expensive aftermarket y pipe is $250 and it gets almost the same numbers. MAYBE 1 or 2hp less. Are you honestly telling me that an extra $350 is worth spending for 1 or 2hp.
And how can you say these things are worth $599 when an expensive aftermarket y pipe is $250 and it gets almost the same numbers. MAYBE 1 or 2hp less. Are you honestly telling me that an extra $350 is worth spending for 1 or 2hp.
BTW, the GB price is way less than MSRP!
Nashua.
02-11-2004, 09:31 AM
#72
I don't care how you look at it. Even if you are competing against Cattman, you're losing that battle and even when you compare against just buying an aftermarket y pipe, you're losing that battle too!
Unless you sell these things at $300, they might be worth it. Any other way you look at it, these things provide no advantage for the cost you pay and the horrible labor you have to go through.
Unless you sell these things at $300, they might be worth it. Any other way you look at it, these things provide no advantage for the cost you pay and the horrible labor you have to go through.
02-11-2004, 09:35 AM
#74
you keep saying MSRP, well if anyone sold anything at the manufacturers suggested retail price then there would be many many businesses that went under quick. Nearly all mobile retailers sell at MAP, no lets see if you know what that means.
02-11-2004, 09:48 AM
#75
Newbie - Just Registered
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Posts: 1,424
The simple fact remains...any proof whatsoever that the headers alone are worth their weight in **** has yet to come foreward.
BTW - I am going to start marketing a new product soon. It's a variant of the Tornadoe Air intake booster. I am also including a ypipe in the deal. I will let you guys know when I get some test cars fitted with it...here's how the dynos are gonna run:
Dyno1: Test car bone stock
Dyno2: Test car with my SUPER-Tornado and ypipe
I'm sure these dyno results will prove once and for all that the tornado air is completely worth the money.
Oh, and the kit is only gonna cost you $599. That's actually less than the MSRP for this!
BTW - I am going to start marketing a new product soon. It's a variant of the Tornadoe Air intake booster. I am also including a ypipe in the deal. I will let you guys know when I get some test cars fitted with it...here's how the dynos are gonna run:
Dyno1: Test car bone stock
Dyno2: Test car with my SUPER-Tornado and ypipe
I'm sure these dyno results will prove once and for all that the tornado air is completely worth the money.
Oh, and the kit is only gonna cost you $599. That's actually less than the MSRP for this!
02-11-2004, 09:52 AM
#76
Originally Posted by sryth
The simple fact remains...any proof whatsoever that the headers alone are worth their weight in **** has yet to come foreward.
BTW - I am going to start marketing a new product soon. It's a variant of the Tornadoe Air intake booster. I am also including a ypipe in the deal. I will let you guys know when I get some test cars fitted with it...here's how the dynos are gonna run:
Dyno1: Test car bone stock
Dyno2: Test car with my SUPER-Tornado and ypipe
I'm sure these dyno results will prove once and for all that the tornado air is completely worth the money.
Oh, and the kit is only gonna cost you $599. That's actually less than the MSRP for this!
BTW - I am going to start marketing a new product soon. It's a variant of the Tornadoe Air intake booster. I am also including a ypipe in the deal. I will let you guys know when I get some test cars fitted with it...here's how the dynos are gonna run:
Dyno1: Test car bone stock
Dyno2: Test car with my SUPER-Tornado and ypipe
I'm sure these dyno results will prove once and for all that the tornado air is completely worth the money.
Oh, and the kit is only gonna cost you $599. That's actually less than the MSRP for this!
02-11-2004, 10:06 AM
#79
Originally Posted by sryth
The simple fact remains...any proof whatsoever that the headers alone are worth their weight in **** has yet to come foreward.
BTW - I am going to start marketing a new product soon. It's a variant of the Tornadoe Air intake booster. I am also including a ypipe in the deal. I will let you guys know when I get some test cars fitted with it...here's how the dynos are gonna run:
Dyno1: Test car bone stock
Dyno2: Test car with my SUPER-Tornado and ypipe
I'm sure these dyno results will prove once and for all that the tornado air is completely worth the money.
Oh, and the kit is only gonna cost you $599. That's actually less than the MSRP for this!
BTW - I am going to start marketing a new product soon. It's a variant of the Tornadoe Air intake booster. I am also including a ypipe in the deal. I will let you guys know when I get some test cars fitted with it...here's how the dynos are gonna run:
Dyno1: Test car bone stock
Dyno2: Test car with my SUPER-Tornado and ypipe
I'm sure these dyno results will prove once and for all that the tornado air is completely worth the money.
Oh, and the kit is only gonna cost you $599. That's actually less than the MSRP for this!