Stone Racing Header/Y-pipe Review
02-06-2004, 09:34 AM
#1
Stone Racing Header/Y-pipe Review
Yes...FINALLY!!!
Ok, this post is for informative purposes only. I was selected to be the 2nd prototype of the Stone Racing Headers for the Maxima. I, among others, was very interested in seeing what kind of gains I could get from this setup. Now for the review.
I have a '99 SE-L and before the header/y-pipe install I had the following mods:
Intake midpipe
Cone filter (HAI)
Testpipe
Grounding kit
My dyno before install was 174whp/189wtq on Jan 3rd...not too shabby, my car had 64k on the odo at the time.
I received the headers on 1/23 and with the help of Chris (BlueBob) and 2 other DNE members we installed the headers on the following Saturday. For the mechanically-declined, we HIGHLY suggest you get with some mechanic friends or a shop to do the install. Front and rear headers for the Maxima will never be close to the top of anyone's 'easy to do' list. Unfortunately there was a fitment issue with the prototype y-pipe and we were unable to install it at the time, so we put the stock y-pipe back on. I felt an immediate increase in power...though this was only butt-dyno and I was unable to get to the same dyno shop that did my last dyno on Jan 3rd. For the next few days Chris and I went back and forth with getting the rear flange welded/re-welded to have it fit properly. Now, keep in mind that the y-pipe was just a prototype and there was definitely going to be fitment issues…I received word from Nashua that final production will not have the same problem with the y that I did. We ended up taking my car to a muffler shop for a quick welding job on the rear flange and the y-pipe was finally on with the headers. This was on Saturday, Jan 31st. I called ATS Racing that day and set up a dyno time for the next morning. Here are the results:
Before install (recap)
174whp/189wtq
After install
189whp/198wtq
As you can see I gained hp/tq throughout the power band. The most noticeable gain was in between 5-6k...instead of the vq running out of breath it livened up.
I give my personal word that I have not added any other modifications and have not done any maintenance since the Jan 3rd dyno and the Feb 1st dyno. I hope this post helps to quell any questions others may have. Please post any question here and Nashua or myself will try to promptly respond to them.
Thank you,
Jeff aka MrEous
P.S. Pics and video to follow soon...I apologize for the time it took to get this review up. I also believe that with the ecu fully adjusted the hp/tq increase will be even better. My car pulls like a ***** now!
Ok, this post is for informative purposes only. I was selected to be the 2nd prototype of the Stone Racing Headers for the Maxima. I, among others, was very interested in seeing what kind of gains I could get from this setup. Now for the review.
I have a '99 SE-L and before the header/y-pipe install I had the following mods:
Intake midpipe
Cone filter (HAI)
Testpipe
Grounding kit
My dyno before install was 174whp/189wtq on Jan 3rd...not too shabby, my car had 64k on the odo at the time.
I received the headers on 1/23 and with the help of Chris (BlueBob) and 2 other DNE members we installed the headers on the following Saturday. For the mechanically-declined, we HIGHLY suggest you get with some mechanic friends or a shop to do the install. Front and rear headers for the Maxima will never be close to the top of anyone's 'easy to do' list. Unfortunately there was a fitment issue with the prototype y-pipe and we were unable to install it at the time, so we put the stock y-pipe back on. I felt an immediate increase in power...though this was only butt-dyno and I was unable to get to the same dyno shop that did my last dyno on Jan 3rd. For the next few days Chris and I went back and forth with getting the rear flange welded/re-welded to have it fit properly. Now, keep in mind that the y-pipe was just a prototype and there was definitely going to be fitment issues…I received word from Nashua that final production will not have the same problem with the y that I did. We ended up taking my car to a muffler shop for a quick welding job on the rear flange and the y-pipe was finally on with the headers. This was on Saturday, Jan 31st. I called ATS Racing that day and set up a dyno time for the next morning. Here are the results:
Before install (recap)
174whp/189wtq
After install
189whp/198wtq
As you can see I gained hp/tq throughout the power band. The most noticeable gain was in between 5-6k...instead of the vq running out of breath it livened up.
I give my personal word that I have not added any other modifications and have not done any maintenance since the Jan 3rd dyno and the Feb 1st dyno. I hope this post helps to quell any questions others may have. Please post any question here and Nashua or myself will try to promptly respond to them.
Thank you,
Jeff aka MrEous
P.S. Pics and video to follow soon...I apologize for the time it took to get this review up. I also believe that with the ecu fully adjusted the hp/tq increase will be even better. My car pulls like a ***** now!
02-06-2004, 09:44 AM
#3
ok thats 15 WHP and 9F/lb T.
OK not useing the rule of thumb of 15% drivetrain loss that puts you at 204.7HP at the crank before and 222.4HP at the crank after the headers and Y pipe. That is 17.7 rank HP difference. Does an aftermarket Y pipe alone not give similar results?
OK not useing the rule of thumb of 15% drivetrain loss that puts you at 204.7HP at the crank before and 222.4HP at the crank after the headers and Y pipe. That is 17.7 rank HP difference. Does an aftermarket Y pipe alone not give similar results?
02-06-2004, 09:45 AM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 182
As promised, I will post the videos/photos and actual dyno runs files soon. Also, as you will see from the actual dyno runs files ( 3 before and 3 after ) there was as high as 19 WHP and 19 lbft of torque gained. It is not all the peak-to-peak that matters, it is the overall WHP gain that available in all rpms range.
02-06-2004, 09:45 AM
#5
Originally Posted by skiwalka
Very nice, so you WERE able to get to the same dyno machine on the 1st?
Aaron
http://atsracing.net/
972-436-0821
02-06-2004, 09:49 AM
#9
Originally Posted by plurco
ok thats 15 WHP and 9F/lb T.
OK not useing the rule of thumb of 15% drivetrain loss that puts you at 204.7HP at the crank before and 222.4HP at the crank after the headers and Y pipe. That is 17.7 rank HP difference. Does an aftermarket Y pipe alone not give similar results?
OK not useing the rule of thumb of 15% drivetrain loss that puts you at 204.7HP at the crank before and 222.4HP at the crank after the headers and Y pipe. That is 17.7 rank HP difference. Does an aftermarket Y pipe alone not give similar results?
02-06-2004, 09:53 AM
#10
was the dyno not done with headers and y pipe? I was saying that a budget Y pipe for $130 can net up to 20 crank HP. Now if the dyno was done with headers and factory Y pipe then I would be on the phone right now.
and not to sound old but what in the world does IIRC mean? I know it is an acronynm but I can't figure for what.
and not to sound old but what in the world does IIRC mean? I know it is an acronynm but I can't figure for what.
02-06-2004, 09:55 AM
#11
Originally Posted by plurco
was the dyno not done with headers and y pipe? I was saying that a budget Y pipe for $130 can net up to 20 crank HP. Now if the dyno was done with headers and factory Y pipe then I would be on the phone right now.
and not to sound old but what in the world does IIRC mean? I know it is an acronynm but I can't figure for what.
and not to sound old but what in the world does IIRC mean? I know it is an acronynm but I can't figure for what.
Now...I was saying that the ecu usually needs more drivetime than 1 day to fully adjust to new mods. I don't know if prior y-pipe users that dyno'd had actually dyno'd the day after install at the same shop used before.
You were correct...the dyno was with headers and y-pipe from Stone Racing.
02-06-2004, 10:06 AM
#14
>I also believe that with the ecu fully adjusted the hp/tq increase will be even >better.
OK! at WOT it doesn't matter if your ecu adjusts to anything. its a shame you did your install that way. it would have been much more informative if you just installed his Y pipe on stock headers and then dyno'ed and then did the headers job we would have more detailed #s to browse...could see how much his y does, and then see how much the headers did. most people already have aftermarket y pipes and nashua would get more sales if he could prove what the headers did, what the y did, and what they did together.
how many dyno runs did you do at each time?
it seems to me that the headers did VERY little.
i'm sure we've all read this before but: http://www.motorvate.ca/mvp.php/519
if i was FI i'd get them. otherwise they are just some bling bling under your hood.
what gear did you dyno in, i know it sounds stupid but sometimes people dyno in 3rd and 5th...?
can us on the org have a copy of your dynojet runs. i know you have them on floppy so why not fork em over and lets us check em out...
i'm sure your happy with your added bling bling and added speed...to bad you can't say you were the 1st max with headers.
good luck modding your max, thx for helping the community out, thx nashua for bringing us this new product.
peace
OK! at WOT it doesn't matter if your ecu adjusts to anything. its a shame you did your install that way. it would have been much more informative if you just installed his Y pipe on stock headers and then dyno'ed and then did the headers job we would have more detailed #s to browse...could see how much his y does, and then see how much the headers did. most people already have aftermarket y pipes and nashua would get more sales if he could prove what the headers did, what the y did, and what they did together.
how many dyno runs did you do at each time?
it seems to me that the headers did VERY little.
i'm sure we've all read this before but: http://www.motorvate.ca/mvp.php/519
if i was FI i'd get them. otherwise they are just some bling bling under your hood.
what gear did you dyno in, i know it sounds stupid but sometimes people dyno in 3rd and 5th...?
can us on the org have a copy of your dynojet runs. i know you have them on floppy so why not fork em over and lets us check em out...
i'm sure your happy with your added bling bling and added speed...to bad you can't say you were the 1st max with headers.
good luck modding your max, thx for helping the community out, thx nashua for bringing us this new product.
peace
02-06-2004, 10:07 AM
#15
Well the deal is available as a package...and everyone knows that when mods are used in conjunction with other mods that the total power is better than what the mods themselves would be alone.
As far as individual testing I was not directed by the manufacturer to do so.
As far as individual testing I was not directed by the manufacturer to do so.
02-06-2004, 10:10 AM
#16
Originally Posted by MrEous
Well the deal is available as a package...and everyone knows that when mods are used in conjunction with other mods that the total power is better than what the mods themselves would be alone.
As far as individual testing I was not directed by the manufacturer to do so.
As far as individual testing I was not directed by the manufacturer to do so.
Not your fault (as you mentioned), but there are 100's of us with aftermarket y-pipes already who are looking to add headers to that existing pipe.
Sadly, your dyno's do nothing for people in that situation.
How did the car feel with the headers and stock y-pipe?
02-06-2004, 10:11 AM
#17
Who is able to host the runviewer files for me? I can send each of them at will.
I have 3 runs for Jan 3rd and 3 runs for Feb 1st.
(also, slow down on the questions...I don't want people to speculate things when I'm trying to do work and answer posts at the same time)
I have 3 runs for Jan 3rd and 3 runs for Feb 1st.
(also, slow down on the questions...I don't want people to speculate things when I'm trying to do work and answer posts at the same time)
02-06-2004, 10:13 AM
#18
Originally Posted by ejj
How did the car feel with the headers and stock y-pipe?
02-06-2004, 10:14 AM
#19
Originally Posted by MrEous
Butt dyno felt like it had definitely improved, but you can take that statement with a grain of salt...I would expect that.
02-06-2004, 10:16 AM
#20
Originally Posted by ejj
Not your fault (as you mentioned), but there are 100's of us with aftermarket y-pipes already who are looking to add headers to that existing pipe.
Sadly, your dyno's do nothing for people in that situation.
I do know what you mean and I'm sorry I am not able to provide you and the 100 others or so that it would help...
02-06-2004, 10:16 AM
#21
I would love to see a dyno of:
1) AFTERMARKET Y-pipe with STOCK headers and then
2) AFTERMARKET Y-pipe with STONE headers
If you have these dynos then we can superimpose them on the same chart and determine the gains of the headers.
It seems as though most people are relucatant to do do this because the Headers give the expected ~ HP increase for $500+ over just a y-pipe alone. So until there's concrete evidence of gains over the y-pipe alone i don't think anybody's going to fork out the $$$ for headers unless they have lots to waste on a mostly sound mod. Is there any weight loss with the headers over stock?
LEMAR
1) AFTERMARKET Y-pipe with STOCK headers and then
2) AFTERMARKET Y-pipe with STONE headers
If you have these dynos then we can superimpose them on the same chart and determine the gains of the headers.
It seems as though most people are relucatant to do do this because the Headers give the expected ~ HP increase for $500+ over just a y-pipe alone. So until there's concrete evidence of gains over the y-pipe alone i don't think anybody's going to fork out the $$$ for headers unless they have lots to waste on a mostly sound mod. Is there any weight loss with the headers over stock?
LEMAR
02-06-2004, 10:18 AM
#22
now this is what I predict. With your mods and y pipe, adding a catback might add 5-6 more horses, with the ypipe and headers you might get another or two. Also if you had a catback you might see more of a power increase with the headers and Y. Something to think about.
02-06-2004, 10:22 AM
#23
Originally Posted by RastaManMax
I would love to see a dyno of:
1) AFTERMARKET Y-pipe with STOCK headers and then
2) AFTERMARKET Y-pipe with STONE headers
If you have these dynos then we can superimpose them on the same chart and determine the gains of the headers.
It seems as though most people are relucatant to do do this because the Headers give the expected ~ HP increase for $500+ over just a y-pipe alone. So until there's concrete evidence of gains over the y-pipe alone i don't think anybody's going to fork out the $$$ for headers unless they have lots to waste on a mostly sound mod. Is there any weight loss with the headers over stock?
LEMAR
1) AFTERMARKET Y-pipe with STOCK headers and then
2) AFTERMARKET Y-pipe with STONE headers
If you have these dynos then we can superimpose them on the same chart and determine the gains of the headers.
It seems as though most people are relucatant to do do this because the Headers give the expected ~ HP increase for $500+ over just a y-pipe alone. So until there's concrete evidence of gains over the y-pipe alone i don't think anybody's going to fork out the $$$ for headers unless they have lots to waste on a mostly sound mod. Is there any weight loss with the headers over stock?
LEMAR
they don't change the sound of the exhaust.
yes they weigh less, not a whole lot though.(1-3lbs total loss)
the pipes are different lengths...look at cattman's(stole it) same length.
nashua: without using your y with stock headers, and then installing the headers you lose all of the following people: 70% of org members already with aftermarket Ys, and all the people ready to buy a y pipe for the 1st time...budget ys have has so many damn reviews as has the others..with no dyno of just your y noone is going to get it. your losing alot of customers. you are selling these seperate right?
02-06-2004, 10:22 AM
#24
Originally Posted by RastaManMax
Is there any weight loss with the headers over stock?
LEMAR
LEMAR
02-06-2004, 10:22 AM
#25
Originally Posted by MrEous
The thing is...as I mentioned a little before...is that mods used together make more power than the one mod alone. The headers alone with my stock y-pipe may make 2hp or more but with the y-pipe they probably make 5 hp or more.
I do know what you mean and I'm sorry I am not able to provide you and the 100 others or so that it would help...
I do know what you mean and I'm sorry I am not able to provide you and the 100 others or so that it would help...
I would _love_ to see a dyno of a car with stock header and an aftermarket y-pipe, then adding the Stone headers to the same car. Basically, a breakdown of how much power is made from replacing each.
Several of us posted this is the original thread about these headers, but they chose to ignore us.
Glad you like them though!
02-06-2004, 10:24 AM
#26
Originally Posted by plurco
now this is what I predict. With your mods and y pipe, adding a catback might add 5-6 more horses, with the ypipe and headers you might get another or two. Also if you had a catback you might see more of a power increase with the headers and Y. Something to think about.
02-06-2004, 11:19 AM
#30
Originally Posted by IwANnAMaX96
So is there gonna be a aftermarket y-pipe/stock headers then aftermarket y-pipe and header test done??
(there is no way I am going to even attempt reinstalling the stock headers...lol)
02-06-2004, 11:20 AM
#31
Originally Posted by IwANnAMaX96
So is there gonna be a aftermarket y-pipe/stock headers then aftermarket y-pipe and header test done??
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=273995
Our requests were ignored as far as I can tell.
02-06-2004, 11:23 AM
#32
I'd love to also see a scale readout of the weight of aftermarket vs. stock so to add to my list would be:
1) AFTERMARKET Y-pipe with STOCK headers and then
2) AFTERMARKET Y-pipe with STONE headers
3) WEIGHT of aftermarket headers vs. STONE headers
I don't want to sound rude, but i think ejj is right, nobody cares about anything to do with the stock y-pipe. It seems as though most header/y-pipe dynos are hiding behind the gains of the y-pipe alone and are afraid to single out the gains between the y-pipe and the headers, possibly because there is no gains? And btw, the weight difference can only help you so at least answering that question should boost the confidence in your product.
LEMAR
1) AFTERMARKET Y-pipe with STOCK headers and then
2) AFTERMARKET Y-pipe with STONE headers
3) WEIGHT of aftermarket headers vs. STONE headers
I don't want to sound rude, but i think ejj is right, nobody cares about anything to do with the stock y-pipe. It seems as though most header/y-pipe dynos are hiding behind the gains of the y-pipe alone and are afraid to single out the gains between the y-pipe and the headers, possibly because there is no gains? And btw, the weight difference can only help you so at least answering that question should boost the confidence in your product.
LEMAR
02-06-2004, 11:35 AM
#33
Not DAVEB the parts guy
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,555
Jeff's prior dyno numbers look pretty much like a few dynos I've seen of 4th gens with similiar mods. The headers do indeed seem to be making extra power over just running a y-pipe. A y-pipe typically will make an additional 10-12fwhp over the powerband. The Motorvate dyno of gaining a peak 17fwhp has a lot to do with the huge difference in correction factors and the temps he dynoed in. It simply skewed the data and made the y-pipe look as if I made an additional 17fwhp. From the looks of it, the headers themselves are making an additional 4-5fwhp/tq.
I don't know of any 4th gen making 189fwhp/198fwtq with just those mods. I made 183fwhp/193fwtq with a y-pipe, intake, and UDP.
Dave
I don't know of any 4th gen making 189fwhp/198fwtq with just those mods. I made 183fwhp/193fwtq with a y-pipe, intake, and UDP.
Dave
02-06-2004, 11:40 AM
#34
The funny thing is that after bashing him in hist first thread and EVERYONE telling him to do a dyno where the headers are compared to an aftermarket y-pipe, they still manage to mess it up. Who knows, maybe they did do a dyno like that. Good job I guess, at least those who need a y-pipe can buy this too.
02-06-2004, 11:49 AM
#35
Not DAVEB the parts guy
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,555
Originally Posted by Big D
The funny thing is that after bashing him in hist first thread and EVERYONE telling him to do a dyno where the headers are compared to an aftermarket y-pipe, they still manage to mess it up. Who knows, maybe they did do a dyno like that. Good job I guess, at least those who need a y-pipe can buy this too.
I'm still waiting for a y-pipe vs header dyno with the Cattman headers.
Dave
02-06-2004, 12:09 PM
#40
i think the org should roll in a sponsor ship program through members of the org...especially wit times like this. When a new product comes out, everyone should pitch in, not mainly to pay for the product but to help pay for install and dyno. I dont think anyone is rich enough to waste so much money just to test in something they believe and maybe they would be faster to process results if they knew they were being backed up by a community.....
just my thoughts. I wouldnt mind giving up 5-10 dollars to have someone test out these headers/y-pipe seperate...
just my thoughts. I wouldnt mind giving up 5-10 dollars to have someone test out these headers/y-pipe seperate...