Cumalot

iTrader: (8)

I don't know about you guys, but my eyes hurt after trying to read what michaelnyden posted.

michaelnyden

iTrader: (15)

once again, everything I am saying has been incredibly misconstrued....perhaps if you were to go back and review my last post, you would see that I was simply only talking about value and bang for the buck! as far as the altitude issues go in LA, not true! obviously you know nothing of fontana and superspeedway....!!! their elevation is a incredibly accurate 460ft. above...in either case, do your homework next time, if you weren't so quick to fire away, you would look at my username and realize that its says february 2003 not 2004!!! the only reason I haven't been on here longer is because my previous maxima was a 3rd gen...wasn't into the whole posting thing and into cars back then....as far as my 14.4 slips go, I will scan them this weekend using my buddy's scanner and post them on this thread for you to see....by the way, plenty of people on the boards know me here, just by my name rather than S/N....hmm...let met think hlh, automax, hnda etr, hmm....let me think, mr nismo, maxxed up....should i keep going? almost all of them i know personally, not just a name on the boards or an aquaintence....in either case, back to the timing issue you mentioned....exactly true, that is where most of today's aftermarket ecu's make their power, but that's not what we are reviewing here, but rather, where the car makes power, and how it delivers said power....remember from my last post, I was not slamming the MEVI, just the ecu, for producing with mevi barely any more gain than a technosquare ecu does in ET's....as far as trap speed goes....well, if you still runnin a 14.5, and a I run a 14.4, guess who still won....gee....those trap speeds mean very little at the strip if you can't get it done....if you want to cop out and just blame all of ceasar's run's on good driving and luck, then you maybe you should take the tremendously potential mevi equipped cars and learn to launch just as good as him..then maybe we will have something to talk about here as far as experiences at the strip go...your trap speeds show potential for better ET's, then do it and don't just state that you can't get good 60' times.....well maybe than, work on a 2.2 or so and run a 14 flat.....then I will listen to the potential of the mevi on a NA car....no arguement from me regarding acceleration after the quarter mile, this conversation is solely about from stop to the quarter mile...and value of which camp to go with...technosquare or jwt/mevi.....by the way, running a 14.7 a/f ratio is optimal, but once again....you are straying off topic, this is about the mevi's power curve altering characteristics, not gee what a/f ratio are you currently running at this rpm or that, but rather volumetric efficiency and its cost in this case as well as its direct results juxtaposed with a compartively equal increase in acceleration for less cost...once again not a slam on the MEVI itself but rather is the JWT properly supporting the potential of the mevi's breathing with adequate timing and fuel map...?? something to think about, not get disgusted with and on the defensive about....this is simply a fun debate about effectiveness vs. value and in some instances such as reliablility and longenvity when winding it out, I'll be seeing my maxima (now a project car) in the 300K club? will you? i'll post a picture of my odometer then, will you? possibly, but according to the nissan master tech...unlikely...

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

Very interesting thread to read. And I don't mean to intrude but you guys are being very hostile toward each other. I personally worship the N/A beast. How you get there doesn't matter in my opinion. I plan on getting an ECU in the fall. Right now it looks like the JWT is the way to go because of the rev limit but if TS cracks it, keeps the current price and still has the incredibly quick turn around time I will be forced to convert.

As for the A/F ratio, I disagree with the previous statements that a stock VQ will become only slightly rich after 3500. Take a look at my graph and see for yourself. I have been trying to figure out if I have something wrong or this is the way it comes off the line. Either way it is very disconcerting to know that I am running so rich. In an effort not to change the topic, I ask if either or both the available ECU's would solve this problem. Also, sorry for the bad quality. Just squint.



P.S. - michaelnyden, it is very annoying to read your posts and it does seem like you're trying to pull the wool over our eyes. I'm not accusing, just stating the obvious, so it would be great if you could prove us wrong.

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

I do fine with my 60', thanks.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

Michaelnyden, I'm not sure who your driving/launching/et comments are aimed at, but perhaps you aren't aware the someone with MEVI and ECU has run 13.9...

Loe max

iTrader: (6)

oh my eyes

Dave B

My bad. I take back the newbie thing and I apoligize. However, I stand by all my other prior comments.

FYI, Neal has run 13.6@101mph with a 1.9 60'. If that doesn't prove the capabilities of the MEVI/JWT with traction, I don't know what does.

Yes, my 60 foots are crappy 2.2s and 2.3s and I plan on improving them with some drag radials.


Dave

krmaxima

iTrader: (13)

well im a 5th gen and have the ts ecu its cheaper becuase our ecu is a flash and in your gen they actually change the chip or something like that. they only have a few left from what i heard so get on the is deal and get this once they run out your out of luck

krmaxima

iTrader: (13)

and the fifth gen cost 500 bills

michaelnyden

iTrader: (15)

well.....good point all of you....however, neals times were achieved through the use of drag slicks......i am sure many maxima guys could run a 13.6 given drag slicks....a mod/addition which is perhaps one of the most beneficial on any drag strip...like i have exhaustingly repeated myself, I am only debating here in regards to value and "bang for the buck", as well as bringing into question the programming of JWT's chips? so for the last time, all of you who keep desperately and unwittingly defending the jwt/mevi combo..., I am not questioning the mevi, just the ecu to support the mevi...basically I am saying we need a ecu specifically designed to take total advantage of such a useful and potentially powerful add-on to our much needed NA cars....so basically, we will have to wait and see what the future holds...as well as the longevity of 200K mile engines revving to 7 grand....of course if you are lucky enough to be FI, then the mevi coupled with stock program is going to do wonders...anyway, this whole thing was entirely extracted out my intended context, which I have tried to clear up in my previous posts, which I could have done more efficiently provided I weren't attacked, flamed, and lectured from those without mechanical engineers as uncles (the individual who actually brought into question this very topic when I showed him my last dyno graph of mine and questioned the mevi issue from an engineers stand point) anyway, I apologize for going on the defensive, but very necessary in a world of other defensive people whom take things out of context and/or read what they want to read....in either case, I have to say either method to acheive NA greatness on our beloved VQ powerplant....is respected and equally regarded....and either way seems to achieve almost equal results in quite a few respects....so bolt-on those mods....cause either way, line up against a FI or bottlefed max....and bu bye....(my project on my recently acquired 2002 SE 6spd...don't know which way to go yet....FI or bottlefed....maybe both

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

Hmm...taking things out of context. Maybe you have forgoten that everything you have typed...

MaximaMoJo

Well, I think the whole point of this thread has been lost to the endless *****ing. Too bad a lot of threads end up this way on such a valuable resource as the Org.

Dave B

The whole point of this thread as been lost, but I feel the endless *****ing is justified because Micheal is posting BS with no proof to back him. Lots of people have done modeling with Car Test which clearly shows the MEVI/JWT having at least a .23 second and 2mph advantage in the 1/4 mile over the USIM/JWT/Techno plus the true track results show that the MEVI/JWT is superior even in the 1/4 mile. I've also calculated average HP of the powerbands and the MEVI/JWT wins with more average power. Whether or not people want to cough up the extra $400 for the MEVI and another $150 for the JWT ECU, is the question. For an extra $550, to have a quicker/faster 4th gen in the 1/4 mile and a significantly quicker/faster 4th gen above 60mph is a hell of a deal in my opinion.

As for the JWT programming being somehow weaker than the Technosquare programming, it's BS. There is no dyno or track proof. Here is Jeff K's dyno with a CAI/Y/exhaust/JWT ECU.



I had Steve run a Cartest program on these numbers compared to the dyno numbers of MEVI/JWT. The MEVI/JWT wins.


Dave

deezo

iTrader: (3)

You sir, don't know what you're talking about. That's all.

deezo

iTrader: (3)

Just so you guys know, Danny has my ECU and I've been trying to get Cheston to take his Max over there to allow these guys to crack the rev limiter. They've had the thing for about 3 months but Cheston is too busy to get his car over there for me.

*********If someone can get their 95/96/97 Max over there please let me know through a PM************

We will make this happen but they need our help.

michaelnyden

iTrader: (15)

here we go again.....once again, flaming on me....does anyone read my posts all the way through? of do you guys just skim them and want to continue on the defensive because it is fun? well, here's a tip in life, I hope you all have more tact in life and in professional situations than you exhibit here....as I clearly stated previously, many of things I said were a valid concern brought about my a mechanical engineer related to me, in addition, they are valid concerns on anyones part and if anything came out harsh, it was because I was previously placed on the defensive from individuals who seem to enjoy dismay, and egotistical battles....which this thread was not intended to be....it got blown way out of proportion and you forced me to continue alongside of you guys! please respond maturely to my concerns, comments and questions...hmmm....well that extra $550....one could lay down on a NX wet kit but anyway, that isn't all the time available power like the mevi/jwt combo....I will tell you what, I live 20 miles from torrance (ie. technosquare) I will take my car down there for you deezo if you retract your previous statements and apologize emphatically, cause this is a favor for you...I will do it 2morrow for god's sake, but you need to start acting like a maxima guy and make your case effectively and not with slanderous comments...this is exactly why mr nismo has to a great extent left the boards by the way and been less active, cause you guys become hostile, therefore making the other guy hostile, the only true maxima guys he has met were on the west coast according to him....prove him wrong??!?!?!

deezo

iTrader: (3)

1. You said the VI was worthless and you're wrong so YOU should apologize for not stating the facts.

2. I don't need your help dude and you really do have a nerve to tell me to apologize to you because I stated a fact.

3. I know a ton more people around here that could do this for the 4th Gen community.

michaelnyden

iTrader: (15)

wow....dude alert....lol can't stop using "dude" in a sentence....lol in either case, then call 'em up...im sure they will be happy to help a guy like you....that live 20 miles away from technosquare and know danny personally....hmmm.....as to your number 1., that would be an opinion not a fact now wouldn't it???? and secondly, I never said that....I said it was questionable gains coupled with the jwt chip....as well as for the cost and et's drop....that's all, never said the mevi was useless, in fact i have said countless times how much of a important part it is and how much potential it has such as on a forced induction maxima....what fact did you state DUDE?

deezo

iTrader: (3)

That fact is that you don't know what your talking about. Do some research then come back to up here and tell us about what we already know.

Ok, I'm going to state this fact; keep it up and you'll get banned for a while. At this point your are a problem to this website and I can clear up the rash of BS that you present. Keep it up.

Rowan

iTrader: (1)

guys, please, be civil.

I am learning a lot from this thread and I (and I'm sure others) don't want this to continue along this flame and be flamed path. Let's learn together!

Michaelnyden, please take your car to Technosquare. It will help the whole Max community in the future and help explain this debate.

btw. instead of using ... could you use paragraphs. It's hard to go from line to line if it's one big paragraph. Thanks.

I appreciate you questioning the current thinking btw. Different forums have different ideas that are perpetuate and elevated to the "absolute truth" level. It becomes hard to debate without everyone becoming hostile.

I personally know very little about the subject so I can't say who's right or wrong. I just want you guys to debate intelligently without flaming!

If the flaming was deleted from this thread it would make a useful FAQ sticky.

-R

bhmax

I too appreciate you questioning the current thinking of these modifications. But no, I don't read your posts all the way through because it's very hard to do when one sentence lasts 20 lines. Please divide things up and I would be happy to hear your opinion.

I plan on getting an ECU with a raised rev limiter and a VI within the next several months. As far as the increased wear on the engine, I think most guys here take that into consideration when installing any mod. I for one will not be too worried about it. However, if something happens, I'll welcome the opportunity to learn how to do an engine swap. Plurco got a very low mileage engine shipped to him for less than $500.

Dave B

Everyone, let's please keep this civil because I think this thread needs to stay open because there is good information here.


There's no "battle" here, we're debating. You claim the JWT ECU has poor programming, the USIM can breath to 6000rpms with some better programming, the MEVI is only really effective with forced induction, and the MEVI is too expensive to justify it's performance. I disagree on all points. My career forces me to use proof and facts to get my point across so I can assure you the validity of my arguments are well researched. When you deal with clients like the Army Corps of Engineers or the Air Force Center for Environmental Excellence, it would be best you know what you're talking about or get out of the room.

I don't claim to be a powertrain engineer, but it doesn't take much to understand that the stronger powerband of the MEVI/JWT wins. I've followed the MEVI and the potential DE-K variable intake manifold retrofit since 2001 when a handful of us on the Org were on the quest to fix the VQ30DE's breathing problems. We stumbled across a guy in Bahrain that introduced us to the MEVI and the rest was history. I've done a ton calculations with this thing. I've also tested it out extensively at the track. The MEVI by itself is pointless for 1/4 mile racing. Add the JWT ECU and you instantly drop .25-.40 and gain 3mph. Done deal and no other NA mod can claim that kind of gain.

Once Technosquare breaks the rev-limiter code then we can say the MEVI+JWT/Technosquare is the way to go. I'd probably want to give my money to Technosquare anyways because they seem to be more client friendly. Unfortunately Technosquare couldn't offer me the product I wanted so I had to go to another vendor.

The knowledgable Maxima owners aren't located in special regional areas and the West Coast isn't the Meca of the performance world. Smart guys are all over the place. The great thing about Maxima.org is that there are actually quite a few guys that know what they're talking about. There aren't many car forums that can claim that. In most forums rumors become facts and there is a bunch of hersey BS.


Dave

krismax

iTrader: (15)

When i get my JWT ECU i will dyno and track test ,then the 2000 VI will be bolted on and dyno and track tested.
I will see first hand if this VI does anything in the 1/4 mile.

I believe in what dave's saying, I think my et and trap speed will dramaticly improve. The cost for me is a little bit more than MEVI.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

Michael you are sortof contradicting yourself. At one point you are saying the MEVI and JWT is not a good value, and then you say they are pointless. Good value and poinless are two totally separate things.

I also don't understand why you keep ignoring the fact that the fastest NA cars on this website are those equipped with MEVI and JWT ECU. Those are the facts, they are no one's opinion. The top 5 trap speeds for N/A 4th gens on this website belong to MEVI/JWT cars. You keep using Caesar as an example but this example is flawed. This is not a slam against Caesar and I know he won't take it as such, but his car is NOT as fast as the MEVI /JWT cars. It is as quick as most of them in the 1/4 mile because he does have a bit of a torque advantage, but the MEVI/JWT cars are faster cars. In a short blast to 60 or 70 a car without MEVI would have the advantage, but after that, the advantage lies fully with the MEVI/JWT car.

The facts show that MEVI/JWT cars are faster cars than those without. Now whether or not you consider the MEVI/JWT a good value is opinion and will vary from person to person, but fact's do not vary. 99 and 100 and 101mph traps are higher than 96mph traps which is what the cars without MEVI/JWT are running.

michaelnyden

iTrader: (15)

go ahead and ban me, I have a dynamic IP, and change S/N's....i already have the technosquare ecu obviously, I have done my research like I stated before with the consultation of a mechnical engineer who is related to me....I know how to end this, my buddy is going to sell his mevi in a month....I will buy it off of him for almost free, then put it on my car, try his jwt, then go to technosquare and have them re-mod my ecu, then re-dyno, then take my car to the strip once again and run it a few times...

By the way, thank you Rowan for sticking out form the norm and being supportive of investigating other possibilities as well as the benefit inherent with questioning the typically unquestioned ideas/beliefs....

In our society, this is a necessity! the typical norms and blindly accepted faiths need to be carefully and thoroughly questioned from time to time, in order to improve things, and provoke other ideas!

But that is exactly my point, most of you have not done the research....which I have consulted with an engineer about and a nissan master tech and am about to do for myself in a month using physical evidence such as dyno's and 1/4 runs....

you are just simply reading what other have said about things or what you have heard from other members and just either A. quoting them, or B. stating that I should do the research, then you quote other's research once again and make it appear as your own....

anyway, this is a very interesting thread and should be taken into careful consideration! I appreciate all of the members who have made it as popular as this thread has become in order to gain as many different viewpoints as possible in the quest for enrichment of the VQ arena!

michaelnyden

iTrader: (15)

"The great thing about Maxima.org is that there are actually quite a few guys that know what they're talking about." exactly what guys such as mr. nismo suggested to me not only a month ago, and I have stated to my friends as well day-in and day-out....I was quoting some else, if you recall my quote however....

having the distinct opportunity to meet and great several outstandingly knowledgeable individuals from the forums in person was a great honor..unlike most of the spec V guys I have also met in person. This fact is simply not on debate here...atleast not on my end!

Remember, once again many of you are turning this into a debate about the mevi, not the jwt ecu...read the intial thread's title:

"Just got Technosquare ECU upgrade and reinstalled " this entire thread was about ecu programming and its effectiveness in increasing and/or supporting a volumetric efficiency increase ony our beloved blocks such as the MEVI....not directly the mevi, however, like aforementioned, my willingness to consistently test the mevi and jwt is coming up and so is the combo with the technosquare very soon! just questioned some steadfast thinking from some rather unknowledgeable people who are not certifiably accredited or consult with a professional source, however, this certainly does entitle them to their opinion however...otherwise what would this board be???

value is not only and opinion however, it is a simple ET/trap speed decrease/increase to dollar ratio... so it can be presented in the form of say a power or speed to dollar ratio that established publications such as road and track and car and driver often include in their road tests....something than can be displayed in a numerical ratio form...fact?? no, evidence yes....

in either case, for that last and final time, this is not about what wins, this is about what wins for the dollar....and we shall see what the new technosquare and mevi shall produce, then this debate could possibly become yet even more interesting!

michaelnyden

iTrader: (15)

sorry, my return key is broken on my keyboard....anyway, replaced it with a logitech i had laying around...

Dave B

You can go back and delete all your duplicate posts. Simply hit edit and it will let you delete them.

The fact that you're talking to mechanical engineers and a master Nissan tech is a pointless argument here. What experience do these guys have with the subject? Why would they understand MEVI better than the next guy? Just because one is an engineer and the other is a Nissan tech doesn't mean they really know anything about engines. The Nissan tech for all we know could be a HVAC tech and does nothing with motors. Techs aren't taught why the intake manifold works the way it does or how powerbands affect performance, they're taught how to fix cars. Isn't it a bit hypocritical that you're going by what a mechanical engineer, a nissan tech, Hal, and Danny (Technosquare) are telling you yet you state that others on Org shouldn't be going by what others say about the MEVI/JWT? The dyno proof and track results are there.

I think most will agree that I'm probably the most pesimistic member on the Org. I question everything. The MEVI/JWT wins.

Who are you talking about? Neal, Mike, Sleeper, and myself have probably done more track and dyno testing than 99.5% of the owners in this Org. The MEVI/JWT wins.

I'm done. I think I proved my point and now I'm just repeating myself.


Dave

michaelnyden

iTrader: (15)

touche!!!!!!!! and no, the master tech is not an hvac tech....but yes, maybe he doesn't know everything...which is why I consulted several sources not just him...but like i stated in previous post, I am going to test it all on the dyno and at the strip in a month....usim w/technosquare, usim w/jwt, mevi w/technosquare (new edition w/o rev limiter) and mevi/jwt ecu....then we shall have the answers!

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

Sounds like a plan to me. Not sure if anyone has ever tested all the different combos on the exact same car.

michaelnyden

iTrader: (15)

well the trick is trying to get it all done in one day....i can test the mevi with each ecu one day and the usim with each ecu on one other day...but it would be very difficult to get them all done on the same day, even that would be ideal for test conditions (ie. same humidity, temp, etc.)...but it will still be relatively accurate...

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

Depends how much time you have there. You can swap from MEVI back to the stock manifold in less than an hour. It's really easy once you know what you're doing.

BEJAY1

iTrader: (19)

Really? And both JWT and TS chips are plentiful. Wouldn't we just need a shop or garage nearby a dragstrip to run all the configurations?

michaelnyden

iTrader: (15)

true...welll for swapping the ecu's, that can be done almost anywhere, but to do the manifold swap, you would need either a dyno shop that wouldn't mind you doing it there or yeah a strip that would allow you to do such work....

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

Or if the dyno is close to your house you could just test both ECUs with the MEVI and then go home and swap the manifold and then drive back and test them both with the stock mani.

NissanSE98

so i guess there is still nothing for us 97-99 guys?

Blackwind

iTrader: (9)

your not the only one who wants to know im gettin a s/c soon and i have a mevi. i would hate to buy an ecu thats out of my year and then find out later they have one.

does technosquare need a 98 to test with? ill make the drive if they do.

deezo

iTrader: (3)

I have a 96 ECU and I get a CEL light because of the differences in voltage between the 96 and 97 O2 sensor but it drives fine.

Blackwind

iTrader: (9)

yeah. i know about the cel's and i dont really mind that all too much. i just want to use a 98 ecu in the event i get rid of the car it has it's "own" ecu. plus it helps all of us 97-99 drivers by saving us money by not having us buy another ecu. just my thoughts

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

You upgrade the 95/96 ECU and keep the 98 ECU. Then you put the 98 ECU back in the car if you sell it. Then you have the 96/96 technosquare ECU to sell for some extra cash.