optimus310

iTrader: (1)

Well guys after 2 days of hard work, my headers are finally in. This has been the most difficult install ever. IT took me 2 full days just to install the headers. I haven't really drive my car that much since, but the few times I drove it, I can honestly say those headers are worth it. I can feel my car pulling a lot harder now after the 4K RPM even tho still feels pretty strong on the low end.
This morning when I was driving on the freeway I felt the power on my 4th gear. Usually the car feels little sluggish at high speeds well I was doing about 75mph on 4th, and I had to pass a car. I stepped on the gas and there I was, the car was pulling like if it was on 3rd.

The second day of the installation turned out to be as hard as the first one. I kept running into little problem that made my day suck.
When I was done installing everthing I took the car downand pulled it of of the garage to test it. I turned it on and it felt like it was chocking. It finally turned on and the idle was so rough. IT felt like the car was running on 3 cylinders. When I saw my car idling like that I was about to hit it a hammer after all that hard work. I started looking around and realize I had forgotten to connect 2 wire harnesses. I then turned on the car and reset the ECU and the engine was pretty smooth again.

I then took the car for a test drive and it felt like crap. It has running good but I had so much vibration from the engine, I knew something wasn't right. I got back home jacked the car and realize I had put the last pipe backwards so the hangers were pretty tight touching with the body. I decided to remove that by also removing the catalytic converter (I don't know why). When I was removing it one of the bolts broke leaving half of it stuck in the cat. There was no other way to remove it but to drill it. It took about 2 hours to drill that damn thing and it was finally out. I put everything back in and started the car..... The VQ was back to normal. No vibration and or noise. Took it for a test drive and was impressed of how it was pulling even with 4 people in my car.

The headers fit fine, but I the rear O2 sensor wouldn't fit in. I believe Matt (Iron Lung) had the same problem. I was able to get most of it , but still not all the way in. I checked and there appears to be no leaks. I can't hear any leaks either. I guess thats something that cattman was to fix if thats a problem with all the headers.
Again sorry for the long post, I just had to let you know how fun was my weekend.

Here are the Pics

http://gallery.azmaximas.org/view_al...install&page=2

Stringztoo

It's like I'm watching a mechanical version of "Trauma: Life in the ER". Metal guts everywhere!

Y2KSESteve

iTrader: (22)

Sweet optimus! Let's get to the track soon..

plurco

iTrader: (1)

how does it sound?

optimus310

iTrader: (1)

The sound is really just a little louder over the Y pipe, not that much. They are really quiet just they way I wanted them. I'll take some sound clips later on and post them

meccanoble

iTrader: (22)

thats the same way i felt when my mevi was put in. Dam, i really want to see a dyno. Did you guys ever think the mevi and headers give such great hp or make such difference because its like putting new headers in there which are super clean vs our heavily used headers?

azmaxipad

iTrader: (4)

lets get your car out to the track now optimus... another track day for the AZ maximas.

MrEous

iTrader: (11)

That install is definitely a B!tch...actually, the worst part is trying to get the rear headers off. Everything else is so easy compared to the rear headers.

Definitely get some dyno/track #s up!!
What are your current mods?
Previous dyno?

Taken2DaMax

iTrader: (5)

The headers looks so clean under the car...looks awesome. Hope to see some numbers pretty soon.

Taken2DaMax

iTrader: (5)

The headers looks so clean under the car...looks awesome. Hope to see some numbers pretty soon.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Is it necassary to take the inatake manifold off during install? Could they OEM manifolds betake off throught the bottom? Did you have a y-pipe on before?

95CustomMaxima

iTrader: (5)

Beautiful work, they headers look great!

-Nick

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

Thanks for posting your expierence. It will come in handy when I do mine. Hope you have good track or dyno numbers to compare.

Dave B

With our current luck with headers, he's probably never dynoed or never been to the track so we'll have no comparison data


Dave

optimus310

iTrader: (1)

Well I don't really think its because they are much cleaner. However I think that headers + MEVI + ECU would be the ultimate performance mod. It sounds like my Injen intake is sucking a bit more air. It sounds awesome!


Current mods are Injen CAI, B&M STS, and headers
No previous dyno, but will get a dyno soon

Well cattman instructions say to remove the engine cradle with brackets. Believe me. That way is much more complicated. There is no space to remove that thing.
Removing the exhaust manifold wasn't that hard. I just remove all the bolts and the rear manifold felt through the bottom. The heat shield that is on top of the rear manifold is a PITA, There is no way to remove that from the bottom.
and yes I did have a cattman y pipe before

Well I'm not really trying to sell you anything to go dyno my car every time I install a mod. Will get a dyno soon just cus I'm curious what the car is pushing, not to compare.
I can compare it to my old cattman y pipe and the car just pulls much harder even at high speeds. Difference is day and night
I do have track numbers which are
stock= 15.88
after CIA= 15.6
with cattman Y pipe= 15.45

all the runs were with pretty much the same setup.
no spare tire, 1/4 gas in the tank, and stock wheels with same tires all the time.
Will have the same setup next time I go to the track and will see what I can do

2k3TitaniumSe

iTrader: (3)

The Headers look amazing! Great work. Way To Go Cattman!

-=PK=-Maxima

how much are the headers? and you say the difference with headers and without is like night and day? do you think it adds more hp than a y-pipe, or a MEVI?

MiLLzZ

mind my newbiness...but wut is this MEVI all u ppl talk about???

nismos14

iTrader: (56)

sweet congrats

optimus310

iTrader: (1)

I can't tell you for sure, but the original dyno done by Brian Catt's show a gain of something about 5hp over the Y pipe. It feels more than 5 maybe because it gives more power under the curve.
Another issue is that my pipe needed to be replaced, I will show you a pic of why it needed to be replaced.

Dave B

I'm just curious to see if these things really work because I'm interested. At least you have some track times WITH the y-pipe. When you go to the track, make sure and tell us the conditions between the before and after runs along with the entire timeslip run down. It will allow us to get an idea how well these things work.

I'm surprised you said that dropping the engine cradle is hard. I dropped my engine cradle in about 40 minutes when I replaced the mounts. I was amazed at how much more accessible the rear manifold was with the cradle out.


Dave

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

That's now I am going to attack it.

Was going to get the cattman headers last week but my front wheel bearings along with the HUB and water pump all craped out in the same week...

optimus310

iTrader: (1)

Will definitely keep you guys posted. The only problem is that in order to get the same track conditions living in a Arizona may have to wait a while. Any way there is a track even coming up in about 3 weeks. I will see if I can finally break into 14's I just hope the hot weather of Az doesn't kick in first. I've already had to use my A/C a few times this past month.

Now that I think about it dropping the engine cradle is not as bad as I thought. I was trying to drop everything together including the mounts.
Dropping the cradle first then the mounts then the brackets could be easier.
The other problem is tighten the header nuts from the bottom. I was able to see 5 of them from the bottom but didn't had enough access to them from the bottom. However doing it from the top was very easy. I had access to all 6 nuts.

greenmax95se

iTrader: (4)

your only other performace mod is a CAI, why not dyno with the CAi and then a 2nd pull with the stock air box, and then compare both, aswell as campare the stock air box pull to a bone stock maxima dyno(if anyones got a link to it)

would that work?

optimus310

iTrader: (1)

and this is why I had to remove my Y pipe, and maybe another reason why I feel so much more power from the headers
Long story short.
Bought a use y pipe with the small flex section that pipes had before
decided to replace the flex by taking it to the cheapest place I could find.
This is what they did.







Full size pics are here
http://gallery.azmaximas.org/view_al...install&page=4

nismos14

iTrader: (56)

dont think that flex is that much smaller so i dont think it would have been that bad on the pipe to cause trouble, the headers are probably making a good bit of difference

98SEBlackMax

iTrader: (9)

So you removed the upper manifold and removed the center crossmember to do this install? When you removed the center crossmember did you have to support the engine with something?

I want to get headers in a couple of months, I just need figure out how to install them.

slimer

iTrader: (13)

Mike,

I was @ WBHS yesterday and was going to stop by. I was thinking of headers also. I'm going to wait until i get that s/c bracket form stillen tho.

Steve

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

Trying to get the young girls huh? That's my territory! hehehe....I'll see you SC set up at byron on the 17th.

optimus310

iTrader: (1)

I only removed the intake monifold and had access to everything there.
I didn't remove the engine cradle, but thats what the instructions say

Cattman

iTrader: (77)

Great write-up on the install, glad you like the results. I should clarify that my original dyno test of the prototype header on my 100k miles 97 SE compared it with a stock y-pipe.

Before/After peak power was 167/184hp (17hp) and 182/197.5 ft/lbs of torque (15.5 ft/lbs). Maximum before/after difference was 19hp @ 5400rpm and 18.5 ft/lbs of torque @ 4800rpm. The most important figures - which are seldom calculated - are average gains over the rpm range. In this case, the headers picked up an average of 12.5hp between 3000-6100rpm and 14 ft/lbs of torque.

Note that in addition to the engine being a wee bit tired, the prototype headers were not ceramic coated, and adding those thermal containment properties to a long-tube part like this can easily make 10% more power.

The question of how much more power the header made than a y-pipe is speculative, but I was very familiar with that car and I've always said that the headers seemed to make about 50% more power than the y-pipe on that car. I would expect that to be pretty repeatable on 95-99 cars. I expect it to be somewhat better than that on 00-01 and 02-03 engines and those with retrofitted MEVI-type intakes because the headers help most at the upper end, and those engines have intakes that allow them to make power up to redline instead of falling off like the earlier ones.

Finally, there are a couple of header customers right now that have done baseline dynos with performance y-pipes and have installed their headers (or are getting ready to) and trying to schedule follow-up dynos after the ECUs have learned. That data should become available over the next few weeks.

Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance

Dave B

Optimus:

How tightly did you torque the nuts down to on the manifolds? According to the FSM and Chiltons, they're only suppose to be torqued down to 15ft/lbs which is basically nothing. How easy were the nuts to get off?


Dave

VQvroom

I can lend a helping hand.

Ive got a stock SE and would take the headers/install in exchange for the dyno comparison data.........hehehehe

optimus310

iTrader: (1)

I didn't torque them to spec since I don't have a torque wrench and didn't know what the spec was.
The nuts were pretty easy to get off. I didn't need my breaker bar at all.

venompwr2

iTrader: (27)

Really? The nuts on my Y pipe were very tough to get off. Even if the setting is only 15lbs, I would have figured all the heat generated there would have gotten them on pretty tight.

Conrad283

iTrader: (2)

They look like they're sitting a little low. Other than that they look awesome

Dave B

The Y-pipe nuts are on with quite a bit more force. Factor in the extreme heat of the precats and the nuts can be fairly hard to break loose.

Torqueing the header/manifold bolts to the correct spec and in the correct pattern is critical because overtorquing the nuts can cause gasket leaks in the short term or long term.


Dave

optimus310

iTrader: (1)

Thx. for the info Dave. Do you know what the pattern is? I would like to know incase I messed up and they start leaking in a few months.

Dave B

Factory spec is 13-16 ft/lbs. The sequence is top middle nut, lower middle nut, top driver side nut, lower passenger side nut, lower driver side nut, upper passenger nut. You should put them on tightly in the sequence, then torque them to spec in the sequence.


Dave

optimus310

iTrader: (1)

for those of you who care. I tested my headers at the track, and even tho it was so much hotter than last time I raced. I'm happy with the numbers.

Here is my best time on Dec 6 2003
With the following mods:

Injen CAI
Cattman Y pipe
KYB AGX at number 4/2
Sprint Springs

Front: stock SE wheels with goodyears eagle rs-a 215/55/16 at 30PSI
Rear: Mille Miglia EV-s with yokohama AVS100 at 35psi
GAS: 1/4 of Texaco premiun or supreme Fuel
Weight reduction: Spare tire romoved, sub box removed

R/T .739
60' 2.374
330 6.525
1/8 9.968
mph 70.72
1000 12.941
1/4 15.451
mph 90.60


and Here is the one on March 20 2004

Temp: 82°
Dew Point 30°
Humid. 12%
Press. 29.96
Wind. From NW 5mph

mods:

Injen CAI
Cattman Heders
KYB AGX at number 4/2
Sprint Springs

Front: stock SE wheels with goodyears eagle rs-a 215/55/16 at 30PSI
Rear: Mille Miglia EV-s with yokohama AVS100 at 35psi
GAS: 1/4 of Chevron Premiun
Weight reduction: Spare tire romoved, sub box removed

R/T .621
60' 2.367
330 6.554
1/8 9.963
mph 70.99
1000 12.899
1/4 15.362
mph 92.59



Sorry for not having actual Data of the Temp back on Dec 6. All I can remember is that it was very Cold. I had a big jacket and I was still cold. Probably like 40°. If the temp was like that last Saturday, Im sure my number would have been much better, Now that Arizona heat is kicking in, I probably won't be able to race again since temps are already in the 90's
Today 98°
I will probably dyno next Saturday, just to see what I have