How good is the "sport" suspension on a factory '95-99 SE?
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Newbie - Just Registered
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Posts: 6
How good is the "sport" suspension on a factory '95-99 SE?
Anybody have any thoughts on this? I know I would want to stiffen the suspension on a GLE or GXE. Would that be as necesary on a used gen4 SE?
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 686
Originally Posted by sellmeyourmaxim
Anybody have any thoughts on this? I know I would want to stiffen the suspension on a GLE or GXE. Would that be as necesary on a used gen4 SE?
SE suspension is good for daily driving, of course it won't be as good compared to a 2 door coupe, but it is definetely respectable for a 4 door family sedan.
Its as good as a Ford Windstar. The factory suspension with the rear beam is fine if you just want to get around and drive normally, but hard driving will show you the need for aftermarket struts and springs. For a sport-minded driver who wants comfort - H&R and Tokico Illuminas seem to be your best bet with suspension.
I have some opinions on this as I took my stock SE autocrossing and then proceeded to upgrade suspension after 3/4 of a season... But Im not sure you all would agree with what I have to say...
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 111
Originally Posted by Spaniard
I have some opinions on this as I took my stock SE autocrossing and then proceeded to upgrade suspension after 3/4 of a season... But Im not sure you all would agree with what I have to say...
Well, don't tease us. Do tell, brother Spaniard.
Mr.P
Koni Yellows are also excellent struts BOSS- you cant go wrong with Konis or Illuminas. Not too many people on the board have the Konis, I know of one person who has it on his 99 Black SE-L, maybe he can shed some light on if the Konis are worth the extra buck over Illuminas.
1 of few unmodded 4G Maxs
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,827
From: Commerce Twp., MI
I'm lookin' to upgrade my "SE" suspension not right away but down the line come summertime or fall, I can deal w/ stock until I have enough $$ to upgrade
I don't want anything too harsh or anything, just something to bring it a notch or 2 above the stock SE suspension, and Wisky97SE you've mentioned H&R's and Tokico Illuminas for a nice balance b/w sport and comfort, what would you recommend personally? H&R or Tokico?
I'm not looking to lower my car either - the roads here in MI are bumpy enough as is
I don't want anything too harsh or anything, just something to bring it a notch or 2 above the stock SE suspension, and Wisky97SE you've mentioned H&R's and Tokico Illuminas for a nice balance b/w sport and comfort, what would you recommend personally? H&R or Tokico?
I'm not looking to lower my car either - the roads here in MI are bumpy enough as is
Originally Posted by BOSS
What setup are you going with? H&R I'm assuming and what to go with that?
I will probably end up going with GR2's. They are cheap, but good. I think I will be happy with that setup.
I went with Progress springs and Tokico Illuminas. I was leaning towards the H&R for a smooth ride, but I wanted a tiny bit more drop than they provided. I've since rode in both H&R/Illumina and of course my Progress/Illumina and I can honestly say there's no real difference in ride quality.
When I upgraded from stock SE suspension I first went to Koni adjustable shocks/struts. I couldnt notice an improvment. It might have been the install but it seemed that the wheel gap increased a bit w/the konis (meaning the car was riding a tad bit higher) so this would probably offset any improvment in the performance of the shocks themselves over stock dampers.
When I went with the eibach springs later, I also didnt notice a huge difference in performance. The car seemed to be slower at turning in (the initial part of the turn) and a bit more able to handle g's through the middle of the turn -because of its lower center of gravity, not because of the spring stiffness. The car would turn a bit less 'rolly' of course due to the stiffer springs, and this would make for better slalom performance, but as for holding long sweeping turns I dare say that the stock suspension was as good or perhaps even better.
Why do I say this and how is it possible? Because tire grip is influenced by how much weight is pressing down on the wheel. The stock suspension, while rolly, (esp the rear beam) transferrs alot of weight where its needed. Its my opinion that nissan engineers did alot of balancing performance and comfort when they came up with the SE suspension and what they delivered was a really great balance of both. The only thing about it was that it LOOKED like it was struggling big time- as you can see in my signature, the suspension coped with stress by picking up the inside rear wheel big time. IMO, that wheel isnt doing much of any good being on the ground anyways, but it sure makes the car look like it is struggling!
For what its worth, I took a seasoned instructor /racer out for a session at thunderhill with my stock suspension and his summation of the laps was
"Im impressed with the handling ability of the maxima"
And IMO he seemed to favor domestic auto makes, so this would tend to double the value of this compliment (again just my opinion though)
Theres alot more than can be said about it, but for my part I would say this:
Nissan came through with a very good balance of performance, comfort, and forgiveness in the stock SE suspension package. It may be my bad luck with less than perfect aftermarket installs leading me to feel this way... But I am a believer in the stock suspension (with >GOOD< tires- mind you!)
The only knock that I can come up with (though I actually like the fact) is that it picks up the rear wheel during stressful cornering. While it might look funny or less than ideal, it seems to me that what is happening is the car is transferring weight to where it can do more good for you in the turn.
Just my .02 cents. Actually maybe more like .04
-E
EDIT: Upon reflection and re-reading this, I would add that if you have an SE, your mod $$$ is best spent on power mods unless you like the lowered look... (but dont we all?)
When I went with the eibach springs later, I also didnt notice a huge difference in performance. The car seemed to be slower at turning in (the initial part of the turn) and a bit more able to handle g's through the middle of the turn -because of its lower center of gravity, not because of the spring stiffness. The car would turn a bit less 'rolly' of course due to the stiffer springs, and this would make for better slalom performance, but as for holding long sweeping turns I dare say that the stock suspension was as good or perhaps even better.
Why do I say this and how is it possible? Because tire grip is influenced by how much weight is pressing down on the wheel. The stock suspension, while rolly, (esp the rear beam) transferrs alot of weight where its needed. Its my opinion that nissan engineers did alot of balancing performance and comfort when they came up with the SE suspension and what they delivered was a really great balance of both. The only thing about it was that it LOOKED like it was struggling big time- as you can see in my signature, the suspension coped with stress by picking up the inside rear wheel big time. IMO, that wheel isnt doing much of any good being on the ground anyways, but it sure makes the car look like it is struggling!
For what its worth, I took a seasoned instructor /racer out for a session at thunderhill with my stock suspension and his summation of the laps was
"Im impressed with the handling ability of the maxima"
And IMO he seemed to favor domestic auto makes, so this would tend to double the value of this compliment (again just my opinion though)
Theres alot more than can be said about it, but for my part I would say this:
Nissan came through with a very good balance of performance, comfort, and forgiveness in the stock SE suspension package. It may be my bad luck with less than perfect aftermarket installs leading me to feel this way... But I am a believer in the stock suspension (with >GOOD< tires- mind you!)
The only knock that I can come up with (though I actually like the fact) is that it picks up the rear wheel during stressful cornering. While it might look funny or less than ideal, it seems to me that what is happening is the car is transferring weight to where it can do more good for you in the turn.
Just my .02 cents. Actually maybe more like .04
-E
EDIT: Upon reflection and re-reading this, I would add that if you have an SE, your mod $$$ is best spent on power mods unless you like the lowered look... (but dont we all?)
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 111
Thanks Spaniard, for the write up. I though you might be thinking that way. I am also questioning stiffer = better performance, thats why I wanted to hear what you had to say.
Recently I rode in a friends focus SVT (a 1.0g lateral skid car!) and the suspension was supple! A nice cruiser on the freeways and the cornering had - GASP - body roll. But the body roll never felt out of control, even at high speed - it always felt sharp and confident. Granted, like said above, you can't beat a full independant suspension.
Ok, my point, is actually questioning the stiffer = better equation. Which leads back to the SE suspension.
Comments welcomed.
Mr.P
Recently I rode in a friends focus SVT (a 1.0g lateral skid car!) and the suspension was supple! A nice cruiser on the freeways and the cornering had - GASP - body roll. But the body roll never felt out of control, even at high speed - it always felt sharp and confident. Granted, like said above, you can't beat a full independant suspension.
Ok, my point, is actually questioning the stiffer = better equation. Which leads back to the SE suspension.
Comments welcomed.
Mr.P
Originally Posted by 87MaxWagon
Thanks Spaniard, for the write up. I though you might be thinking that way. I am also questioning stiffer = better performance, thats why I wanted to hear what you had to say.
Recently I rode in a friends focus SVT (a 1.0g lateral skid car!) and the suspension was supple! A nice cruiser on the freeways and the cornering had - GASP - body roll. But the body roll never felt out of control, even at high speed - it always felt sharp and confident. Granted, like said above, you can't beat a full independant suspension.
Ok, my point, is actually questioning the stiffer = better equation. Which leads back to the SE suspension.
Comments welcomed.
Mr.P
Recently I rode in a friends focus SVT (a 1.0g lateral skid car!) and the suspension was supple! A nice cruiser on the freeways and the cornering had - GASP - body roll. But the body roll never felt out of control, even at high speed - it always felt sharp and confident. Granted, like said above, you can't beat a full independant suspension.
Ok, my point, is actually questioning the stiffer = better equation. Which leads back to the SE suspension.
Comments welcomed.
Mr.P
VQ props I suppose! 
I would add that maybe the stiffer suspensions 'feel' like they are performing better because that is what people generally are used to in 'performance' sports cars? I'd also add that taking the car into aftermarket suspension opened up the possibility of getting more 'neutral steer' and with certain driver inputs - Oversteer! And let me tell you- oversteer is daym different from understeer. Scary stuff when you are first exposed to it!
Edit: An example of some scary oversteer!
(5.8 megs, suggest right click-save)holy fikin shiite!
Thread Starter
Newbie - Just Registered
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6
Neat film.
from the FAQ section: "The RSB (rear sway bar) serves to tie up the rear suspension as to limit its travel relative to each sides. When the amount of travel between the two sides is limited, the body of the car will not roll/lean as much. One thing to note is that with the decreased rear suspension travel, the back end tends to have less traction at the limits. Often, this will lead to oversteer, whereas a stock Maxima will understeer."
Makes sense, more roll = more weight on the outside tires = more traction. Like you said.
However, if you're switching from sharp rights to sharp lefts and your vehicle sways into each one, it's not going to respond as quickly and the momentum of the left to right sway could pull you further out of the turn.
Plus, all that roll is a little unpredictable. If your car is like a solid block then it will perform the same way at the begginning of a turn as at the end. If it has roll then the traction characteristics are ever changing.
This is pretty much all speculation on my part though. I will say that my wife's '01 Altima handles a ton better than the '98 GXE I test drove. I'm hoping I can buy a gen 4 SE or upgrade a GXE.
from the FAQ section: "The RSB (rear sway bar) serves to tie up the rear suspension as to limit its travel relative to each sides. When the amount of travel between the two sides is limited, the body of the car will not roll/lean as much. One thing to note is that with the decreased rear suspension travel, the back end tends to have less traction at the limits. Often, this will lead to oversteer, whereas a stock Maxima will understeer."
Makes sense, more roll = more weight on the outside tires = more traction. Like you said.
However, if you're switching from sharp rights to sharp lefts and your vehicle sways into each one, it's not going to respond as quickly and the momentum of the left to right sway could pull you further out of the turn.
Plus, all that roll is a little unpredictable. If your car is like a solid block then it will perform the same way at the begginning of a turn as at the end. If it has roll then the traction characteristics are ever changing.
This is pretty much all speculation on my part though. I will say that my wife's '01 Altima handles a ton better than the '98 GXE I test drove. I'm hoping I can buy a gen 4 SE or upgrade a GXE.
Originally Posted by Wht98SE
I'm lookin' to upgrade my "SE" suspension not right away but down the line come summertime or fall, I can deal w/ stock until I have enough $$ to upgrade
I don't want anything too harsh or anything, just something to bring it a notch or 2 above the stock SE suspension, and Wisky97SE you've mentioned H&R's and Tokico Illuminas for a nice balance b/w sport and comfort, what would you recommend personally? H&R or Tokico?
I'm not looking to lower my car either - the roads here in MI are bumpy enough as is
I don't want anything too harsh or anything, just something to bring it a notch or 2 above the stock SE suspension, and Wisky97SE you've mentioned H&R's and Tokico Illuminas for a nice balance b/w sport and comfort, what would you recommend personally? H&R or Tokico?
I'm not looking to lower my car either - the roads here in MI are bumpy enough as is
Wht98SE, when you ask me, what do I recommend personally between H&R or Tokico - what do you mean? H&R Makes the springs and Tokico Illuminas are the struts. I would recommend you pair the H&Rs with the Illuminas, once the Illuminas (adjustable) are adjusted to your liking, the ride wont be too far off from stock and it will look and handle a lot better. If you want to sacrafice more ride for handling I would say you go with Eibachs and Illuminas.
One thing I learned is do not cut corners while doing suspension, you may also want to get Motivational rear mounts to give the rear more suspension travel which would come in handly if you have people in the back of your car often.
Originally Posted by Brudaddy
So, Spaniard, you say not to go with an "upgraded(stiffer)" suspension? I have an SE, and I love the way it rides, but I want a more sporty ride.
*I am just so confused...ha ha.
*I am just so confused...ha ha.
So (as always, IMO) just putting aftermarket pieces on there will definately give you improved looks (e.g. lowered) and a fun, sportier feel (less rolly-polly and enhanced feeling of the road (aka the bumps) - like we all associate to a performance sport car like an NSX or something)
but aftermarket suspension may not automatically make the car perform better in most daily driving, hard driving or even accident avoidance. When I mean perform better, I mean actually having the ability to pull off extreme handing manoevers.
Without some very good alignment work, appropriate tires, the right tire pressure, re-learning how your car responds and behaves with the new setup, and probably some things that I dont know about.... you might only be breaking even (dare I say it... I dare- or worse than breaking even)
-while sacrificing the ride that your mom and dad appreciate
It comes down to what you want.. if you want the car to feel or look sportier, go for it. If you are only worried about aggressive driving performance, its not a simple bolt-on process to get the balance right in aftermarket setups like, say, a y-pipe or other power mod. IMO... always IMO!!
Originally Posted by sellmeyourmaxim
However, if you're switching from sharp rights to sharp lefts and your vehicle sways into each one, it's not going to respond as quickly and the momentum of the left to right sway could pull you further out of the turn.
Plus, all that roll is a little unpredictable. If your car is like a solid block then it will perform the same way at the begginning of a turn as at the end. If it has roll then the traction characteristics are ever changing.
This is pretty much all speculation on my part though.
Plus, all that roll is a little unpredictable. If your car is like a solid block then it will perform the same way at the begginning of a turn as at the end. If it has roll then the traction characteristics are ever changing.
This is pretty much all speculation on my part though.
right now im using kyb agx on stock gle springs and i can take turns a lot lot faster than before the only downside is even with stock springs the ride is harsh i have mine set at 2 on the front and 4 on the rear wich is just like gr2s anything lower is softer but dont make sense if you pay 400+ to ride like stock
Originally Posted by PLUMMAXSE
Spaniard,
What is your opinion on Tokico Illumina shocks on the stock Se Springs? Would that stiffen up my SE without any drop, thereby maintaining/helping the handling? TIA
What is your opinion on Tokico Illumina shocks on the stock Se Springs? Would that stiffen up my SE without any drop, thereby maintaining/helping the handling? TIA
Im not sure and shouldnt really say since Ive never tried em. Based on my experince I would just say that shocks are mostly about feel (though springs are a bigger factor) and that I wouldnt expect a world of difference with illuminas (performance wise, especially) - assuming that the install leaves your car with the same ride height... if you wind up lower/stiffer then it will feel more capable/solid, and less so if you wind up higher/softer. I would assume the tokikos are somewhat more stiff than stock dampers...
I will mention a couple things tho and pardon me if its not exactly what you were asking about-
one thing that is nice about konis is the lifetime guarantee..
its nice to get adjustables to tweak it to your preference or based on your carrying load (ever see the Transporter?
)and if you are going to pay to have the work done, it makes sense to do the springs at the same time. That is assuming you want to lower or stiffen up the feel. After thinking about this, Im leaning (thats a pun
) towards the belief that the stock SE suspension handles better than it lets on what with the comfort and rolliness... so stiffening it up would probably be more for your personal preference of a more solid feel rather than an absolute performance overhaul. -Dont get me wrong, I like the feel of the car with the koni/eibach springs and the 2 degree negative camber. Its more aggressive, challenging, and the car feels, looks, and behaves much more like a track car... what it has done performance wise is less than I expected tho. I figured I would be able to go around turns like 5-10% faster.
Hmm.. oh yeah I just recalled: Maybe the biggest factor is that I can now run the car at lower tire PSI w/o scrubbing the outside edges right off due to the body roll. I have yet to try running at around 30 psi cold... went from like 42 (before RSB and eibachs) to 36 last time out. I stopped there because they were 52 PSI when I measured em after getting off the track and 51 was the max psi. I was of the mindset that the extra tire pressure probably would leave alot more tread on the tire.
So maybe thats where the gains are to be had with the aftermarket suspension setup and I havent really tried for them. Its not so much the way the car behaves but that you can get away with making the tires work alot harder and not ruining them in the first 10 minutes. I gotta think thered be alot more grip with 10-12 PSI less in the tires.
So, now you see how my thinking developed. Sorry that this turned into a book but stuff just started occurring to me and, well I really get a kick out of chatting about the topic.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 128
PLUMMAXSE , the SE springs with the Tokico Illumina's might be a good combination for better handling if you don't want any drop, http://maxmods.dyndns.org/index.php?MaximaSprings even supports that. I used to want no drop, but after looking at the maxima's enormous 4x4 wheelgap and the fact that H&Rs are still pretty comfortable, I decided to lower it. I'll post more impressions after i get my Illuminas and H&Rs installed next week.
Originally Posted by s3roush628
PLUMMAXSE , the SE springs with the Tokico Illumina's might be a good combination for better handling if you don't want any drop, [url], I decided to lower it. I'll post more impressions after i get my Illuminas and H&Rs installed next week.
Originally Posted by Spaniard
huh? dont know what you are referring to. tire pressure?
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 283
From: Orlando
Originally Posted by Spaniard
When I upgraded from stock SE suspension I first went to Koni adjustable shocks/struts. I couldnt notice an improvment. It might have been the install but it seemed that the wheel gap increased a bit w/the konis (meaning the car was riding a tad bit higher) so this would probably offset any improvment in the performance of the shocks themselves over stock dampers.
When I went with the eibach springs later, I also didnt notice a huge difference in performance. The car seemed to be slower at turning in (the initial part of the turn) and a bit more able to handle g's through the middle of the turn -because of its lower center of gravity, not because of the spring stiffness. The car would turn a bit less 'rolly' of course due to the stiffer springs, and this would make for better slalom performance, but as for holding long sweeping turns I dare say that the stock suspension was as good or perhaps even better.
Why do I say this and how is it possible? Because tire grip is influenced by how much weight is pressing down on the wheel. The stock suspension, while rolly, (esp the rear beam) transferrs alot of weight where its needed. Its my opinion that nissan engineers did alot of balancing performance and comfort when they came up with the SE suspension and what they delivered was a really great balance of both. The only thing about it was that it LOOKED like it was struggling big time- as you can see in my signature, the suspension coped with stress by picking up the inside rear wheel big time. IMO, that wheel isnt doing much of any good being on the ground anyways, but it sure makes the car look like it is struggling!
For what its worth, I took a seasoned instructor /racer out for a session at thunderhill with my stock suspension and his summation of the laps was
"Im impressed with the handling ability of the maxima"
And IMO he seemed to favor domestic auto makes, so this would tend to double the value of this compliment (again just my opinion though)
Theres alot more than can be said about it, but for my part I would say this:
Nissan came through with a very good balance of performance, comfort, and forgiveness in the stock SE suspension package. It may be my bad luck with less than perfect aftermarket installs leading me to feel this way... But I am a believer in the stock suspension (with >GOOD< tires- mind you!)
The only knock that I can come up with (though I actually like the fact) is that it picks up the rear wheel during stressful cornering. While it might look funny or less than ideal, it seems to me that what is happening is the car is transferring weight to where it can do more good for you in the turn.
Just my .02 cents. Actually maybe more like .04
-E
EDIT: Upon reflection and re-reading this, I would add that if you have an SE, your mod $$$ is best spent on power mods unless you like the lowered look... (but dont we all?)
When I went with the eibach springs later, I also didnt notice a huge difference in performance. The car seemed to be slower at turning in (the initial part of the turn) and a bit more able to handle g's through the middle of the turn -because of its lower center of gravity, not because of the spring stiffness. The car would turn a bit less 'rolly' of course due to the stiffer springs, and this would make for better slalom performance, but as for holding long sweeping turns I dare say that the stock suspension was as good or perhaps even better.
Why do I say this and how is it possible? Because tire grip is influenced by how much weight is pressing down on the wheel. The stock suspension, while rolly, (esp the rear beam) transferrs alot of weight where its needed. Its my opinion that nissan engineers did alot of balancing performance and comfort when they came up with the SE suspension and what they delivered was a really great balance of both. The only thing about it was that it LOOKED like it was struggling big time- as you can see in my signature, the suspension coped with stress by picking up the inside rear wheel big time. IMO, that wheel isnt doing much of any good being on the ground anyways, but it sure makes the car look like it is struggling!
For what its worth, I took a seasoned instructor /racer out for a session at thunderhill with my stock suspension and his summation of the laps was
"Im impressed with the handling ability of the maxima"
And IMO he seemed to favor domestic auto makes, so this would tend to double the value of this compliment (again just my opinion though)
Theres alot more than can be said about it, but for my part I would say this:
Nissan came through with a very good balance of performance, comfort, and forgiveness in the stock SE suspension package. It may be my bad luck with less than perfect aftermarket installs leading me to feel this way... But I am a believer in the stock suspension (with >GOOD< tires- mind you!)
The only knock that I can come up with (though I actually like the fact) is that it picks up the rear wheel during stressful cornering. While it might look funny or less than ideal, it seems to me that what is happening is the car is transferring weight to where it can do more good for you in the turn.
Just my .02 cents. Actually maybe more like .04
-E
EDIT: Upon reflection and re-reading this, I would add that if you have an SE, your mod $$$ is best spent on power mods unless you like the lowered look... (but dont we all?)
Thank you for sharing your experience. I have tried to make a statement about the stock SE suspension being well design by Nissan , but I was shot down by a few (not all ), "Hard Core wana be racers" . I am so engulfed with glee after reading this post. I am more pleased to know that you have stated your experience , even if others do not share the same opinion(or had the pleasure to do what you have done).
1 of few unmodded 4G Maxs
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,827
From: Commerce Twp., MI
Originally Posted by Wisky97SE
My setup is Eibach and Tokico HP, which I do not recommend, the Tokico HP (Blue) struts are too soft for the stiff eibach springs causing a sometimes overly harsh ride. If I could do it all over again, I would have done Eibachs with Illuminas.
Wht98SE, when you ask me, what do I recommend personally between H&R or Tokico - what do you mean? H&R Makes the springs and Tokico Illuminas are the struts. I would recommend you pair the H&Rs with the Illuminas, once the Illuminas (adjustable) are adjusted to your liking, the ride wont be too far off from stock and it will look and handle a lot better. If you want to sacrafice more ride for handling I would say you go with Eibachs and Illuminas.
One thing I learned is do not cut corners while doing suspension, you may also want to get Motivational rear mounts to give the rear more suspension travel which would come in handly if you have people in the back of your car often.
Wht98SE, when you ask me, what do I recommend personally between H&R or Tokico - what do you mean? H&R Makes the springs and Tokico Illuminas are the struts. I would recommend you pair the H&Rs with the Illuminas, once the Illuminas (adjustable) are adjusted to your liking, the ride wont be too far off from stock and it will look and handle a lot better. If you want to sacrafice more ride for handling I would say you go with Eibachs and Illuminas.
One thing I learned is do not cut corners while doing suspension, you may also want to get Motivational rear mounts to give the rear more suspension travel which would come in handly if you have people in the back of your car often.
Thanks for the help! When the time comes and I get the H&R springs, how much of a drop will it give me, if any? If it's by not that much and even though I don't want a drop, I can live w/ a small amount of drop, but if it's a considerable amount, I'll stick w/ the Illuminas and those sound like a good bet, I will look into those as well as those rear mounts you mentioned
Originally Posted by maxdis1
Thank you for sharing your experience. I have tried to make a statement about the stock SE suspension being well design by Nissan , but I was shot down by a few (not all ), "Hard Core wana be racers" . I am so engulfed with glee after reading this post. I am more pleased to know that you have stated your experience , even if others do not share the same opinion(or had the pleasure to do what you have done).
you might be setting yourself up for some
Like this: Im actually starting to like some ricey stuff...The bees in the can sound from my exhaust actually has grown on me!
Maybe next I will get a neon shift ****! (j/k)
Originally Posted by PLUMMAXSE
What I meant is I need good tires(v/z rated). Also the tire pressure is probably a little high for those type runs.