maximus_pr

iTrader: (3)

what you think of this

http://www.boosthead.com/product.php

i fint it interesting but from what i see in the site looks promising and cheap compared to the turbokits avaliable only downside is its for momentary use 15 sec surges good for 1/4 miles it uses a battery for power but it takes like 20 -30 min recharge(another battery)

Maxima99SE

iTrader: (2)

that site is jacked up...

maximus_pr

iTrader: (3)

it seems fair to me anybody have tried before or know of somebody who have it?

happyricefob

iTrader: (7)

no it's a POS

save yourself some $$ and buy some real performance mods.

Maxine

You cant be serious

zazon

iTrader: (4)

someone had one of those at a meet here in columbus, (not on a maxima), he said and i quote "just spend the extra 1k for the real thing".

BRIGBOY

OH He's serious.....It IS for real. Read This, third or fourth poster is the creator of the kit himself, Geoff Knight or whoever......

http://www.3.8mustang.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56576

BRIGBOY

What kinda Car??

Maxine

If someone doesn't jump on this I will!

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

What are you saying? Superchargers can only be belt driven?

Dreizehn

iTrader: (4)

Trunk full of Nitr... Batteries?



Maybe I could trade in my mufler bearings for some 8+ hp electric motors...

Liquid_pjear

iTrader: (2)

Hell you could run them off a windmill you attached to your roof if you want. However, the flaw in any temporary Forced Induction comes with the rest of the engine setup. If you want to take full advantage of FI you have to add things like fuel and exhaust at the very minimum. To say hey I can run 20psi without changing anything is rediculous. You would have to be able to match that added pressure with added fuel in order to keep from running seriously lean (killing almost any performance you would have gained and causing a slew of other problems). You also have to be able to get all that air back out which is a real issue because you could set up injectors and the like and use some nifty engine management to take advantage of the added flow (when it is available, and return to business as usual when the Electronic supercharger isnt in use) however exhaust is going to be an issue. If you open up your exhaust for the Electronic wonder then you will kill your performance the rest of the time you arent boosting. Granted you could set up an exhaust with a simple bypass. It is difficult to take advantage of that from a stop light though unless you have a complex system. Overall, it would be way more work than it is worth.

BRIGBOY

Did you all read the whole thread? Its got me wondering....It doesnt seem like any more work to me...other than the fact it would be completely custom installation for us....

I gather that you are at full boost from idle to redline at WOT which equals much better gains than any turbo/supercharger? Turbos need to spool to gain boost, superchargers increase boost with rpms, similarly to turbos. Thoughts?

BRIGBOY

And why would you say there would be loss at standard/stock driving conditions before you flip the "switch"?

Liquid_pjear

iTrader: (2)

The losses I was referring to would be from the exhaust. If you open up your exhaust to get the gains for those 15 seconds the rest of your time your exhaust velocity is gonna suck and you are going to lose your low-end. More power to anyone who does it, but realize once you add the fuel injectors and pump, the engine management, and the exhaust to really take advantage of the gains you could have built a nice turbo or supercharged setup.

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

Skepticism is good at times, especially in these days of 150 watt marine blower superchargers on ebay.

If you spend time on Thomas Knight's website, though, you'll see that he has a well designed product that can move a significant amount of air at a significant pressure.

The engine doesn't care that much how you get the air into it, but it does require a certain amount of power to pump air into the engine. That's why the little ebay blowers are ridiculous. But the electric superchargers were talking about here are rated at 24 hp. That's enough power to pump 500 cfm at 11 psi. 500 cfm is good for 300 hp at an afr of 12.5:1.

Battery technology is advancing pretty fast these days due to the expanding hybrid vehicle market. The auto industry is also advancing towards a 42V or 48V electrical system, which will make high powered electric superchargers very attractive. Not only do you eliminate belt losses in the case of superchargers and exhaust back pressure in the case of turbochargers, but an electric supercharger opens up the possibility of complete computer control of boost. Turbo lag will be reduced by orders of magnitude, and boost pressure at any engine rpm will be fully controllable.

The arguments about fuel and exhaust requirements can be made about any supercharger or turbocharger system, and are therefore specious.

BRIGBOY

I'd have to disagree.....but I may still be confused as to how this frickin thing exactly works.

Dreizehn

iTrader: (4)

I think the motors may be staged. The site is quoted for saying 550CFM @ 5.5psi.

s0ber

iTrader: (7)

Thomas Knight... I remember him.. Nobody liked him on the 626 boards I believe.. He was the only one with a turbokit for a the 626/probe... If I remember correctly anyways.

Liquid_pjear

iTrader: (2)

No I am not arguing fuel and exhaust requirements in a normal FI situation. You always have to put lots of effort into any FI system. However, this is a temp FI situation that only works for 15 seconds at a time. So you would have to tune your car for that 15 seconds and sacrifice performance for the rest of your driving, or leave it stock and get next to nothing out of the electronic supercharger.

maximus_pr

iTrader: (3)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quoted from MZMTG
Exhaust system backpressure is ALWAYS BAD! Engines do not need backpressure to make good torque. What an engine needs is a system that maintains high exhaust stream velocity at low RPM.

Read this article for a good explanation.[url]http://www.magnaflow.com/05news/magazine/05sportc.htm[/url
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BRIGBOY

No, an AFC would make that adjustment witht the push of a button. And even so It wouldnt be needed for light boosting applications because at WOT, we are running filthy rich anyway. I still don't think you read the whole mustang thread close enough.



And as for the quote from MZMTG - its totally irrelevant.....

SuperFishstick

waste of money, if you look at what else is required, you will find that u need (4+ High-cranking amp, 15LB racing batteries and many more goodies to make this work.

sryth

It may have it's place for cars that have no FI option, but we have better solutions available to us (SC/Turbo).

BRIGBOY

Alright why cant we make it work then...

sryth

Why can't we make what work? You could make it work, but I'd rather spend a little more scratch and get a belt-driven SC or a Turbo.

I think he has an uphill battle ahead of himself. Does it produce gains? Sure. Is it better than a belt SC/Turbo? I don't think so.

Sure, he's temporarily eliminated parasitic loss while you're boosting for 15 seconds, but you pay for it for the next few minutes when the beefed up alternator kicks in. It does have it's applications (daily driver taken to the track on weekends), but I'd rather have boost for more than 15 seconds/5 minutes.

How far has battery technology come? Can you really drain/recharge a battery once every couple of minutes?

liqidvenom

iTrader: (6)

we, more then any other car owners should not be so skeptical about a new product. Every product that comes out for our cars, we always seem so skeptical and so quick to put it down even though we have no proof that it wont work. People on this forum still dont think that MEVI's work. we need to just take any new kind of mod for our or any car, and be happy wit it until we have concrete proof that it doesnt work.
thats just my 2cents.

sryth

lol...try that one out some time. Shell out your (hard-earned?) money for a mod just because no one has proven it's a pile of crap yet.

As for this electric supercharger: I'm not skeptical at all. I'm sure it lives up to the claims that Mr. Knight makes. Good for 15sec of boost, then recharge it for a few minutes. I'm saying that I would never spend even $1500 for that setup when I can get a V2 for ~$3500.

Liquid_pjear

iTrader: (2)

[QUOTE=BRIGBOY]No, an AFC would make that adjustment witht the push of a button. And even so It wouldnt be needed for light boosting applications because at WOT, we are running filthy rich anyway. I still don't think you read the whole mustang thread close enough.[QUOTE]

Ok so you have taken care of the fuel but are magic little exhaust fairies gonna fly your exhaust out for you. 550cfm in is an extra 550cfm you have to get out (not totally there is exstensive loss but you get the point). I just think in order to get a lot of performance out of this machine you need to do more work which makes it nearly as exspensive as a real FI system.

sryth

You have a good point, but your argumentation is flawed.

You're comparing this Electric supercharger to conventional FI. You'll need a less restrictive exhaust system with either setup to realize good gains. Therefore it is irrelevant for the purposes of comparison.

Liquid_pjear

iTrader: (2)

No I am not saying you dont need it in both. Trust me I dont know maximas that well but I know FI. I am saying you cant just buy the electric supercharger and expect good gains you will have to do more work. Once you do that work you will have almost paid for a real supercharger. Thats my point, I understand both electrical and conventional need the same ingredients. If you have to do it anyway why not pay the little extra for the real thing.

maximus_pr

iTrader: (3)

i agree thats why i posted this because i find it an interesting mod some people dont have the 3500+ for a belt s/c or the 4500 for a turbo kit theres a lot of people here that are in college maybe earning a minimum wage and 1500+ is the opportunity to have a decent increase in horsepower without spending the salary of whole year plus the benefit for some not to have boost every time just exactly when you want it or need it less stress on your engine not to mention on your wallet(gas) is a good choice for a few people assuming it works go ask what is better turbo or s/c you will have like 100 people telling you different things is like nitro you ask me i say not for me but like it or not is one of the cheapiest way of big increase in hp so people dont judge a mod assuming everybody thinks like you just give your opinion and try to help your fella thats the point of this forum to help each other and just to be clear im NOT buying the kit

sryth

I completely agree. As I said in an earlier post: I'd rather spend the extra scratch for a conventional FI setup that will give me boost for more than 15sec every 5 minutes.

The unit itself is $1995, add batteries; alternator; possibly FMU...now you need to add all the intake tract itself. You're probably going to approach, if not exceed the price of a V2 kit from $tillin.

Even if you saved $100, the extra $100 spent is more than worth it IMHO.

Then we can talk about tunability. With a conventional SC you can always get a smaller/larger pulley to suit your tastes. You'd need to upgrade the entire unit with the ESC.

PS - Shouldn't this be in the FI forum?

Liquid_pjear

iTrader: (2)

We have a FI forum?? HOly Crap we do, I need sleep.

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

Nobody boosts for more than about 15 seconds at a time, at least in the context of a street racer. After 15 seonds I'm doing well over 120 mph.

Yes, there are tradeoffs involved in any boosted car. Colder plugs, reduced effectiveness of exhaust at low rpm, noise, etc. It doesn't matter what kind of forced induction setup you have.

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

The point I am making is that it is a real supercharger. It's just not belt or exhaust driven.

sryth

Well, your driving style is different than mine, then. Most times I accelerate very quickly when the mood strikes. And it's usually from stoplight to stoplight. For that type of driving, this thing won't cut it.

Sure, it's better than NOS, IMO, but it can't compete with a constantly available conventional FI system under these circumstances.

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

I'll grant you that. But I also think that people are too quickly dismissing this as just another ebay type scam when it has been demonstrated to make significant boosted power. And wait a while. You're going to eventually see electric superchargers as oem equipment one day for the reasons I mentioned earlier.

Dreizehn

iTrader: (4)

It isn't an extra 550cfm. You have to look at what a 3.0L can consume. The 550 number I'm sure is the max output for that blower. To get max output you would have to turn it at it's maximum effecient speed. I would imagine that he would have his electric motors spinning it at that point. At 6500rpm the max will consume close to 350cfm. Yes it's extra air but it isn't 550cfm extra.

Liquid_pjear

iTrader: (2)

I realize it was just a generalization. I know it is a "real" supercharger. I am just saying you use it in spurts. It isn't constant.