I was also interested in wind splitters i actually was talkin to Chitwista on the the org and he said he has a friend that can measure the Stillen lip and form a wind splitter by cutting it out using sheet metal i think BUT the only problem is finding how to mount it with to the car.

 

I agree Tom. That site is great. I read those two last night. I have a good reading source for the next week or so.

For the most hardcore roadracers I'm envisioning a combination of all the lip designs we've discussed. Think Stillen+Splitter+Ludalip. I'm thinking fabbing a splitter that looks like this:

____________________________________
|

The (|) will be a little section that is perpindicular to the main splitter body. This will only protrude toward the ground an inch or so. This will give a mounting surface for the ludalip to attach to. The ludalip will need to be cut down so it isn't constantly touching the ground. But if cut extremely close it will block nearly all airflow and substaintially increase downforce. It will look hardcore as hel! and will need to be replaced at least once a year due to contacting with the ground. But the soft nature of the vinyl will allow it to bend when it contacts the ground; therefore not creating any substaintial destruction. Similar to this except with a splitter too.
Mike Kojima's Sentra

Or is all this a bad design? Would the benifit of the splitter be diminished or negated due to the ludalip blocking the outlet for the low pressure air flow? If not the final design I'm envisioning would look like:

________________________________________
||
|

 

thanks broaner and vquick, anything to make thie max handle better im game, that site has some great info indeed, zip through the tech and myth section for some interesting read. nateplaysbass original design seems very easy to duplicate if you have the equipment but i think it can be improved by minimizing the gap between the plate and the bumper or lip, and attaching it inbetween the underbody splash shield or over them.

side skirts if close enough to the ground will help to stop the air from the wheelwell from getting back underneath the car

 

If anyone has an idea they need fabricated, let me know. This is something we do, usually people send us a cardboard template or something and we fab it out of aluminum. Last project I did was for a friend's drag Supra (it traps 170mph in the 1/4). It ends up looking a little nicer than if you do it with nibblers or shears.

After I get my car back up and take care of some other projects, this is actually something I'll be working on. Probably take the plate all the way under the car to the oil pan area. Still debating whether or not to cut vents/louvers into it. I may do it out of CF, but a plate of CF that large is significantly more expensive than metal. So I'll probably just end up doing it in aluminum and then powdercoating it.

I'm not doing it for the downforce, more to direct air to the IC and radiator. With the custom upper shroud I'm working on, air should be directed through the grill/bumper right through.

 

shadow keep me updated and ill pick one up of ya or you can run a group deal or soemthing, anytime frame your looking to start this project

 

well, here it goes. this is the second time I'm trying to reply, lost everything once already. (Grr)

sorry it's taken a week, I'm crazy busy. and I was sick in bed last weekend (only happens once a year)

I'll try to cover as many questions as I can.

downforce: 99maxk2 reminded me of somthing with a question he asked. one of the main causes of the lower downforce is lower pressure under the car. note: when I say this, I don't mean that the splitter actually lowers pressure to below atmospheric, this means that pressure which builds up on the front of the car that would normally go under is diffused over and to the sides of the car. Driving down the road all of the air that hits below the furthest protruding part of the car goes under the car, and the rest goes over. by adding a splitter which sticks out a litter further than the front bumper the air is trapped. Normally you would be building pressure between the pavement and the bottom of your car, but the splitter 'lifts' that pressure onto the front of the car, creating down force, and lowers the amount of built-up pressure further back under the car, creating down force (or lessing up-force, whichever you want to call it)

Angle: My splitter has a little bit of an angle to it, somewhere around 2 or 3 degrees. I'm sure this helps.

Stillen Lip + Splitter: I was thinking this would be awesome, but I don't have a stillen lip. how far does the lip protrude from the bottom bumper? my splitter protrudes about three inches. From past experience, I previously made a lip from plywood, or 'natural composites' as SCC called it. it didn't protrude as far, and it broke when I hit a cat going 60+ (RIP). I have noticed a greater difference with this one because of it's length, but the effect was deffinitely there with the shorter piece. (this one looks 100% better too)


Splash guards/mounting: The splitte replaces the splash guards and uses the six tapped holes for mounting the splash guards, as well as the two turn-buckles. so, there are 8 bolts holding the piece to the bottom of my car, very sturdy.

protection: well, if you are already scraping and bumping, ading a longer and lower protrusion to the front of your car can't make you scrape any less... unfortunately I havn't had a design that covers the oil pan... this design could easily be extended back further.

Mounting Height: Part of the reason this splitter looks kinda funky is because I don't have the intercooler in this picture yet or in my car for that matter, it should be comming by this summer. I just bought a daily beater 86 yoda pickup, and will be getting a welder tomorow. The intercooler sticks down past the lower edge of the front fascia, and it will probably sit flush on the splitter. I think that the splitter would look alot better if it were mounted higher than I have it, but unfortunately I won't be abble to do this on my car.

Cutting: It's perfectly cut because a friend of mine is a metal fabricator/finisher. Props to him, he did a hell of a good job.

Edit: the price below was taken out because we are not sure of a price figure yet.

Price: if you're interested, it'll probably by around $xxx, I have no idea if that's competitive or not. But that includes powder-coating and probably a choice of color.

If anybody has a stillen fron lip: the way I got the shape of the splitter is by piecing poster board together wide enough to make a profile of the front bumper. I then taped the poster board to the bottom of the car and traced the lower lip. If someone would consider doing the same from a stillen front lip this might help with making a stillen lip/splitter prototype.

Hope I helped! I'll be checking in again soon.


Nate
PS thanks to 'Vquick' for resurecting this thread.

 

Oh ****. That pic fxcked this thread up. I'm linking it now.

FYI, If you don't have any splashguard mounting these things gets a lot easier.

 

Two questions:

1. I'm a little confused. How could you mount it any higher? My assumption based on your photos is that the splitter is basically a flat metal plat that is mounted flush along the bottom of the front bumper cover and extending partially under the engine bay. So what do you mean, mount it higher?

2. I plan on getting a full Stillen kit and I'd love to add a true splitter to it. Here is a good shot of the front lip:


It sticks forward a good bit but it's not as flat and has two vents below the foglights. A splitter mounted to the bottom of it and under the car would be great. Only problem is, the lip sticks a few inches below the bumper cover, so how would you mount it? The splitter would have to be angled in order to bolt under the car, or it would have to have some kind of spacers.

 

If the lip is more than glued to the bumper there would be no problem. Put bolts through the lip and bumper to secure that. Then bolt the splitter to the lip. If secured well it should have no problem taking the load on the perimeter. The only area I worry about is the middle of the splitter. The area below the radiator. A simple 1-3" block of steel could be cut and then a bolt could be put all the way from below the splitter through the block and through the lower rad support. The bolt would be quite long but would certainly do the trick. If you're really worried about the airflow under there a pan head phillips bolts could be used and countersunk into the splitter. With this setup I think turnbuckles would still be required. Its better to be overbuilt than run over your whole bumper when it goes flying off when you're hauling @ss down the highway. All that said, if you still think its too flimsy you could reinforce the inside of the lip by laying fiberglass on the back.

 

I'm quite sure the Stillen lip is bolted. I'm still having a tough time envisioning this but I'm sure it can be done. Turnbuckles would look fine if they were painted body color.

 

They don't have to be bolted. I've seen a lot of **** attached with silicone caulk type stuff or double sided tape.

 

what did you with the stock plastic sheild peices , did you take them off , cut um or just put the spliter over them?

can you give some close up pics?

 

car domain site

well, here's some more pictures.

my splitter is not flush with the bottom bumper of the car. It would look way better if it was. but because of the IC, I need it to be a bit low.

Nate

 

i'm just waiting to see a maxima on a magazine now......=D

 

i remember seeing this splitter a while ago and this topic jogged my memory. i wanted to run it by you guys to let u see it. any idea of it being usefull. it says universal, do you think it may work for our cars w/ or w/out the stillen lip.

its CF and looks pretty nice....buddy club2

Carbon Fiber splitter



it says universal????????????

 

They may make any shape you want but that thing sure as hel! isn't universal. The contour of the front edge is for that specific bumper. Also, the width of a Civic certainly isn't equal to a Maxima.

 

probably universal civic.

so many of those rice burning crap boxes, they think they can call themselves universal.

Nate

 

i think that if you could produce these, and make some spacers that would allow them to be used with a stillen kit, they would sell like hot cakes. my car feels like its gonna fly away everytime i hit the highway with a sslight cross wind. id love to have more downforce, especially in the front where it actually matters, only problem is, the mounting point for the turnbuckles... is there no other place you could have mounted them? i dont really want to sacrifice my stock fogs.

 

sweet man !!!

 

yeah, sounds nice for highspeed maneuverability.

 

is the splitter easily removable, can u still access the oil filter and drain plug if u need to do an oil change, im guessing u can reach the coolant drain plug.

 

Yeah, it should be designed so it bolts flush to the bottom of the Stillen lip (but protrudes forward a couple of inches) and then the rest will be like Nate's design except with taller spacers between the splitter and the underbody.

 

I could deffinitely look for another place to mount the turnbuckles, so you don't have to sacrifice the fog lamps. I'd have done this originally, but the intercooler piping got in the way of the fog lamps anyways. I can still get to the oil pan drain, but not the coolant drain hole. It takes about 10 minutes to get the splitter off. not too bad, but not somthing I like to do often.

I'm going to talk to my fabricator about making these again. If I could get a profile of the stillen front lip that'd be great. I'll make a stillen lip version, and a non stillen lip version. I need pictures of the back/underside of the stillen lip so see how it's mounted.

glad you guys like it!

Nate

 

Cool cool! Nate, this is one great thing about a good forum such as the Org: if you design and build a truly good mod and produce them at a reasonable price, you can sell a LOT of them. I bet if you get the fitment and installation worked out perfectly, people here would be all over them, especially once people report back about improved high-speed stability (if it is as good as you say it is). Everyone will benefit.

Now, I bet Broaner is already planning his own custom splitter which he'll make himself in tech class.

 

You nailed it on the head. I have no front bumper reinforcement anymore so I'm going to have to get creative to mount the turnbuckles. Ross taught me to weld today. Tomorrow I'm cleaning up the threads on that piece of the LCA and milling the spacer for the clutch pedal. Next week: Custom Aluminum polished pedals.

 

the more i look at this, the more i feel like it would be great for me. my stock fogs were taken out by a ditch and they are hella expensive to replace. i already have the space vacated! ha. powdercoated in a deep evergreen; man, that would be sweet. and having some polished turnbuckles might actually go well with the whole deep evergreen / polished metal color scheme i'm trying to go for.

time to subscribe to this thread

i'm running it around in my head about the possibility of reshaping the underbody part of it a little to create a sort of venturi effect for even greater increases in downforce. hmmm........

front: _______________________

middle: ____/----------------\____

back: _______/--------\________

 

Good thought but reshaping that would require cuting and welding. It would also require a cut into the bumper. It could be extremely benificial though.

 

that would be a great Idea, but the skid plate is smack in the middle of it all. maybe if we did two veturi's on either side of the skid plate and y-pipe. The best would be to make veturis in the back of the car... I've been brewing on that for a while.

before that though. I'm thinking about an add on TCS system. but that's another topic.

Nate

 

wow, i dont know how you plan to add TCS, but best of luck to you, im sure people will just eat em up if you can figure it out. as for the splitters, im actually getting really excited about this whole thing, id love for my car to actually feel planted while driving at highspeeds. it just feels so unstable now, so i hope you can figure out a design that works with the stillen kit, and ge them producing.

 

A wing creates lift by it's shape. More air over than top than the bottom of the wing creates lift.This means the air travelling over the top is travelling faster than the bottom to reach the same point.

 

I like the splitter. I'd be interested in adding something like that to my car too.

 

You forgot the key word: Bernoulli

 

I'm not an engineer. I just know the very simple terms of lift.

 

It isn't a skid plate. If you think it is and use it as such you will have severe structural failure very soon. I'm dealing with that at the moment. It is the engine crossmember. Also, please enlighten us on how you plan to add a TCS. LOL. If you feel this is not the place feel free to start a new thread.

 

As far as the splitter goes: I'll be talking to my fabricator this sunday about production. keep watching, our original idea was to make these for sale. so it's gonna happen.

TCS is a long way off. but I've got an idea of how I could pull it off.

ABS systems monitor the speed of each wheel of the vehicle. I just need to tap into that harness and use the stock sensors. I have an 8Mhz flash-prom chip that I'm learning to program for a different crazy project at school... this chip along with an add on to the throttle cable will alow for adjustment of the throttle even when your foot is buried.

so, that's the thought. But I don't know how practical it is.

and yes, I'd rather call it the engine cross member, I just couldn't think of a name.


Nate

 

I'm definitely interested in putting a splitter on my car. Couple of ideas:

1) can we unbolt the tow loop things to make the splitter sit flat against the bumper? If it's on there, the car isn't getting towed anyway.
2) i'd probably want to look at an aluminum pipe piece to fit over the turnbuckle just to hide the hardware and give it a cleaner look. that should be fairly simple.

 

Good thought on the TCS. It seems excessive to me. That said, I have two constructive criticisms.

1. It was always my impression that the OEM wheel speed sensors were not very good at detecting traction at the limit of acceleration; only deceleration. That said, the moment you change tires or as your tires get old the mue slip curve begins to change. Factory TCS systems do much more than just monitor wheel speed. A predominant factor is the RPM sensor which has an also has the inherant tendancy to get out of whack with different tire conditions.

2. All current OEM TCS's are on throttle by wire cars. Having a TCS on a cable TB would require for there to be some sort of interupt soleniod. The OEM cable would need to be made to terminate in a sensing unit. Then another cable would need to be connected to a small motor or solenoid to transfer on the mechanical link. During full traction situations the solenoid would mimic your foot. However, during lost traction situations the device would stuter along the pre-programed line of traction. If programmed correctly it could work but it would take a sh!tload of work. Still, all this fluttering of the TB would cause crazy **** to happen with your A/F and in extreme power situations this could be detrimental.

All that said, why complicate everything? The only race cars that employ TCS effectively is F1. On all other cars I and most others see it as a hindrance. Whenever you hear of somebody losing a race or getting a time much lower than they expected it was because they forgot to turn off the TCS. This is due to the inability of the systems to predict the future. These technologies can only react to situations which have already occured, thus creating a lag just as is present in ABS. If you have traction problems I suggest the tried and true method of getting larger, wider, sticker tires.

 

Hey i'm willing to donate my broken stillen lip it's broken in three pieces not too serious though just help me ship it to Nate

 

Although I just realized that '99s and probably earlier 4th gens came with TCS optional (only with auto tranny though), and they all have mechanical throttle linkage. Anybody know how that works?

Still, I agree, don't bother with TCS; if you know how to drive your car at the limit TCS is only a hindrance, no matter how high tech.

 

I realized that too just after I wrote that. I was really suprised when I found out some 99's had TCS. Why does yours not have it Tom? What was the option called? Actually I first found out when I questioned a newbie having it. I was very adimant about it and did a fair amount of knocking to the dude. Then he showed me some documentation and I felt very foolish. I very much doubt the TCS on 99's is controlled by the throttle cable. I'd be willing to bet it does it by cuting other things like ignition. Although, if anybody with a 99 with TCS would like to post a pic that would solve all this speculation.