ABS questions....
11-05-2004, 11:56 AM
#1
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ABS questions....
i have ABS. Yesterday it rained and the ABS really annoyed me. Is there a simple was to disable it without any harm to the car.can i just pull the fuse if there is one? just seemed whenever i stepped on the brake yesterday the damn thing came one, i was getting really annoyed. anyone else think the ABS on the maxima is too sensitive?
11-05-2004, 01:05 PM
#4
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Haven't you seen Die Hard: With a Vengence?
"Does this car have Antilock brakes?" "Of course it does it's a mercedes!" "Get down there and pull out the fuse!" "Which fuse?" "I don't know, pull them all!!!"
I don't think that gives you an answer... but it's a good quote to paraphrase
"Does this car have Antilock brakes?" "Of course it does it's a mercedes!" "Get down there and pull out the fuse!" "Which fuse?" "I don't know, pull them all!!!"
I don't think that gives you an answer... but it's a good quote to paraphrase
11-05-2004, 01:51 PM
#5
I'm not a fan of ABS either. My Maxima doesn't have it so it's not an issue for me but my old car did. I pulled the fuse and it was a normal car again without ABS and without any problems other than the ABS light ON in the dash.
There were lots of times the ABS kicked in and I stopped longer than I wanted to. Yes, if you don't have ABS the wheels will lock and it's good for you, blah, blah, I don't like it. I feel ABS is too sensitive on all cars and when braking sometimes, the ABS will kick in and you end up braking longer than you wanted to and although you still had control of the car, you used that control to steer clear of something that you wouldn't have been near in the first place if you didn't have ABS. I'm all for pumping the brake.
I don't like cars that do too much for me, ABS, DRL's, auto-seatbelts, auto-ON headlights... don't like any of it. The only thing I like a little is traction control in my wife's Odyssey but thankfully there's a button to turn it off when I don't want it ON. Just me I guess, that's why I got a stick and not an auto... be at one with the machine.
There were lots of times the ABS kicked in and I stopped longer than I wanted to. Yes, if you don't have ABS the wheels will lock and it's good for you, blah, blah, I don't like it. I feel ABS is too sensitive on all cars and when braking sometimes, the ABS will kick in and you end up braking longer than you wanted to and although you still had control of the car, you used that control to steer clear of something that you wouldn't have been near in the first place if you didn't have ABS. I'm all for pumping the brake.
I don't like cars that do too much for me, ABS, DRL's, auto-seatbelts, auto-ON headlights... don't like any of it. The only thing I like a little is traction control in my wife's Odyssey but thankfully there's a button to turn it off when I don't want it ON. Just me I guess, that's why I got a stick and not an auto... be at one with the machine.
11-05-2004, 04:58 PM
#9
I highly doubt the ABS was making your stops longer. It was making them shorter, as it's supposed to, but you may not have felt it.
I also don't think ABS can be too "sensitive". Do you know how ABS works? It senses if the wheel is either spinning or not spinning, and if the wheel suddenly slows way down, it triggers the brakes rapidly. So unless you're literally just about to skid, it does NOT go on. If someone has more info on ABS please add it. This is just my basic understanding.
I also don't think ABS can be too "sensitive". Do you know how ABS works? It senses if the wheel is either spinning or not spinning, and if the wheel suddenly slows way down, it triggers the brakes rapidly. So unless you're literally just about to skid, it does NOT go on. If someone has more info on ABS please add it. This is just my basic understanding.
11-05-2004, 05:04 PM
#10
http://www.howstuffworks.com/anti-lock-brake.htm
6 pages on how Anti Lock brakes work... If you brake and your anti lock comes on its because your tires are losing traction with the road. The Anti Lock is kicking in and pumping the brakes extremely fast, faster than you will ever be able to do.
If you were not to have ABS lets say in teh rain and slam on your brakes, all you will do is lock up the tires and if you do you cannot steer in any direction, your car will head straight ahead. With ABS you can steer the car since the tires arent locked.
6 pages on how Anti Lock brakes work... If you brake and your anti lock comes on its because your tires are losing traction with the road. The Anti Lock is kicking in and pumping the brakes extremely fast, faster than you will ever be able to do.
If you were not to have ABS lets say in teh rain and slam on your brakes, all you will do is lock up the tires and if you do you cannot steer in any direction, your car will head straight ahead. With ABS you can steer the car since the tires arent locked.
11-05-2004, 05:17 PM
#11
ABS can be too sensitive for individual tastes. You may like it, some may not. ABS, without a doubt, makes stops longer when it's activated. Try it for yourself. Try braking on a straight away with and without ABS and you'll see shorter stops without it.
The purpose of ABS is NOT to make you stop shorter... it is to allow control of the vehicle under hard stops in slippery conditions. For example, if you try to slam on the brakes while swerving on wet pavement, your car will just go straight without ABS if you don't know how to brake properly without it, but with ABS you will still have somewhat of an ability to steer.
So yes, ABS does have it's benefits, it will allow you to steer out of trouble in slippery conditions. But there are times when it will activate when not wanted. For example, the street is all dry except for a small patch of ice about the size of the contact patch of the tire. The patch is only one side of the car. You're coming to a stop from about 40 mph and your right wheel catches the ice patch and activates your ABS. Now your brakes, instead of applying the force you expected are pulsing. In between every pulse there is a moment when the car isn't being slowed and your coming up too fast now on the car at the light and you have to either swerve out of the way (hopefully there's room) or slam hard on the pedal and hope you stop in time.
Now, the same scenario without ABS would just cause your right wheel to skid as you rolled over the ice and then grip again as you hit the pavement again on the other side. You stopped where you thought you were going to and the only problem was a little chirp as the tire skid and gripped again.
So depending on how you drive, what conditions you'll be driving in and how confident you are about your braking, ABS may or may not be for you.
The purpose of ABS is NOT to make you stop shorter... it is to allow control of the vehicle under hard stops in slippery conditions. For example, if you try to slam on the brakes while swerving on wet pavement, your car will just go straight without ABS if you don't know how to brake properly without it, but with ABS you will still have somewhat of an ability to steer.
So yes, ABS does have it's benefits, it will allow you to steer out of trouble in slippery conditions. But there are times when it will activate when not wanted. For example, the street is all dry except for a small patch of ice about the size of the contact patch of the tire. The patch is only one side of the car. You're coming to a stop from about 40 mph and your right wheel catches the ice patch and activates your ABS. Now your brakes, instead of applying the force you expected are pulsing. In between every pulse there is a moment when the car isn't being slowed and your coming up too fast now on the car at the light and you have to either swerve out of the way (hopefully there's room) or slam hard on the pedal and hope you stop in time.
Now, the same scenario without ABS would just cause your right wheel to skid as you rolled over the ice and then grip again as you hit the pavement again on the other side. You stopped where you thought you were going to and the only problem was a little chirp as the tire skid and gripped again.
So depending on how you drive, what conditions you'll be driving in and how confident you are about your braking, ABS may or may not be for you.
11-05-2004, 05:30 PM
#12
Maybe I'm ignorant but I cannot see in any way how a non abs equipped car vs an abs equipped car will stop shorter on plain, flat, dry pavement. Look at the Dodge Viper and the HUGE difference in braking distances between ABS and the old non abs models.
11-05-2004, 05:36 PM
#13
If the pavement is flat, plain and dry, you will get shorter stops without ABS. Try it, it's just a fuse.
If you're comparing Vipers, you have to take into account weight, tire sizes, tire make, rotational mass, brake caliper sizes, brake rotor sizes, brake pad material, brake pad brand, suspension, etc.
ABS will give you longer stops on any plain, dry pavement. Doesn't have to be flat, just dry.
If you're comparing Vipers, you have to take into account weight, tire sizes, tire make, rotational mass, brake caliper sizes, brake rotor sizes, brake pad material, brake pad brand, suspension, etc.
ABS will give you longer stops on any plain, dry pavement. Doesn't have to be flat, just dry.
11-05-2004, 05:37 PM
#14
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Anybody who thinks a non ABS equipped car can stop faster then a car equipped with ABS brakes needs to take a driving class. It just isn't so. You'd be a fool to disable a system that aides in the performance of the vehicle. Stopping is just as much a performance aspect as accelleration is. Once your wheels approach lock up, your stopping distance is increased tremendously. ABS prevents lock up, which decreases your stopping distance. Facts are facts, anti lock brakes stop faster then non anti lock equipped braking systems. That is especially true on slippery road surfaces.
EDIT: If you feel your ABS system activates to quickly you should learn how to brake properly. Chances are your driving to fast, braking to late or are driving on tires that aren't suited for the current driving conditions. Z rated high performance tires don't necessarily hold the road well in wet conditions.
EDIT: If you feel your ABS system activates to quickly you should learn how to brake properly. Chances are your driving to fast, braking to late or are driving on tires that aren't suited for the current driving conditions. Z rated high performance tires don't necessarily hold the road well in wet conditions.
11-05-2004, 05:42 PM
#15
Originally Posted by Igobuk
If the pavement is flat, plain and dry, you will get shorter stops without ABS. Try it, it's just a fuse.
If you're comparing Vipers, you have to take into account weight, tire sizes, tire make, rotational mass, brake caliper sizes, brake rotor sizes, brake pad material, brake pad brand, suspension, etc.
ABS will give you longer stops on any plain, dry pavement. Doesn't have to be flat, just dry.
If you're comparing Vipers, you have to take into account weight, tire sizes, tire make, rotational mass, brake caliper sizes, brake rotor sizes, brake pad material, brake pad brand, suspension, etc.
ABS will give you longer stops on any plain, dry pavement. Doesn't have to be flat, just dry.
Once a tire loses traction, it will continue to lose traction and just peel and bald on you. Thats when you start to pump the brakes or atleast your supposed to. Once you skid... you keep going. And yes we tried it, with 2 Ford Taurus's, same year, same everything except one had the ABS fuse taken off.
The ONLY time ABS hinders braking is off roading. Look at any serious off roader, they CANNOT have ABS on their car. In sand the car will stop much faster without ABS because when you slam on the brakes, a wedge will form stopping your car.
btw I was comparing Vipers to Vipers not Vipers to Maximas
11-05-2004, 05:57 PM
#16
Below is a link to NHTSA about ABS brakes and a quote from that site below it.
As I stated, in slippery conditions ABS is beneficial. In dry conditions, not all systems will shorten stops (SOME will, which I was not aware of, I admit) SOME won't and in loose road conditions you may get longer stops. As far as the cars I've driven, ABS has always rendered longer stops on dry roads. Perhaps newer systems are better. In any case, the choice is up to you, as you can also read in the link, the invention of ABS has not reduced accidents.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/proble...ABSBRAKES.html
And BTW I too was comparing Vipers with Vipers... old vs. new.
As I stated, in slippery conditions ABS is beneficial. In dry conditions, not all systems will shorten stops (SOME will, which I was not aware of, I admit) SOME won't and in loose road conditions you may get longer stops. As far as the cars I've driven, ABS has always rendered longer stops on dry roads. Perhaps newer systems are better. In any case, the choice is up to you, as you can also read in the link, the invention of ABS has not reduced accidents.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/proble...ABSBRAKES.html
Do cars with ABS stop more quickly than cars without? ABS is designed to help the driver maintain control of the vehicle during emergency braking situations, not make the car stop more quickly. ABS may shorten stopping distances on wet or slippery roads and many systems will shorten stopping distances on dry roads. On very soft surfaces, such as loose gravel or unpacked snow, an ABS system may actually lengthen stopping distances. In wet or slippery conditions, you should still make sure you drive carefully, always keep a safe distance behind the vehicle in front of you, and maintain a speed consistent with the road conditions.
11-05-2004, 06:07 PM
#17
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i pulled the fuse ABS light came on and no ABS. i have the best of both worlds ABS when i want and no ABS when i don't.
ABS is nice in the winter but it has been annoying in the rain. thanks for the input guys
ABS light came on and no ABS. i have the best of both worlds ABS when i want and no ABS when i don't.ABS is nice in the winter but it has been annoying in the rain. thanks for the input guys
11-05-2004, 06:47 PM
#18
Ant96GLE, you took a Police driver training course and they didn't teach you threshold braking ??
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/braking.html (Scroll down to threshold braking)
If you know what you're doing, you can always stop faster without ABS. Threshold braking is best learned with a teacher but can be learned on your own. I would think the police taught threshold braking. I don't know if I've quite mastered it or not, but I do know that I can stop any car I've driven faster without the ABS.
ABS is a threshold braking system for those who haven't even heard of it or care to learn it... the car will attempt to do it for you but you can always do it best with proper training.
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/braking.html (Scroll down to threshold braking)
If you know what you're doing, you can always stop faster without ABS. Threshold braking is best learned with a teacher but can be learned on your own. I would think the police taught threshold braking. I don't know if I've quite mastered it or not, but I do know that I can stop any car I've driven faster without the ABS.
ABS is a threshold braking system for those who haven't even heard of it or care to learn it... the car will attempt to do it for you but you can always do it best with proper training.
11-05-2004, 06:57 PM
#19
ABS is kind of a fail safe for ppl who dont know the limits of their car and in an emergency situation it does more good than bad.
I drive both ABS and non ABS maximas. I got used to the 96 and drove without ABS for so long, so I felt ABS was pointless. So when I got my 98 and it had ABS my normal driving made the ABS go off more and more (bad weather). Kind of bothers/annoys me BUT ABS is a good thing for normal driving and it lets me play stupid in bad weather. In snow i just hold the brakes and let the ABS do its job. No worries right? I stop and I do not have to think about pedal modualation or anything. It definetly works in keeping you in control.
As for stopping distances (if they had equal tires and brakes) I think I could stop my 96 quicker with thresh hold braking, but im sure if i held the brakes to the floor the 98 would stop faster. its all in the pedal modulation.
Id say for a daily driver having ABS is better than none.
I drive both ABS and non ABS maximas. I got used to the 96 and drove without ABS for so long, so I felt ABS was pointless. So when I got my 98 and it had ABS my normal driving made the ABS go off more and more (bad weather). Kind of bothers/annoys me BUT ABS is a good thing for normal driving and it lets me play stupid in bad weather. In snow i just hold the brakes and let the ABS do its job. No worries right? I stop and I do not have to think about pedal modualation or anything. It definetly works in keeping you in control.
As for stopping distances (if they had equal tires and brakes) I think I could stop my 96 quicker with thresh hold braking, but im sure if i held the brakes to the floor the 98 would stop faster. its all in the pedal modulation.
Id say for a daily driver having ABS is better than none.
11-05-2004, 11:00 PM
#20
Originally Posted by Igobuk
Ant96GLE, you took a Police driver training course and they didn't teach you threshold braking ??
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/braking.html (Scroll down to threshold braking)
If you know what you're doing, you can always stop faster without ABS. Threshold braking is best learned with a teacher but can be learned on your own. I would think the police taught threshold braking. I don't know if I've quite mastered it or not, but I do know that I can stop any car I've driven faster without the ABS.
ABS is a threshold braking system for those who haven't even heard of it or care to learn it... the car will attempt to do it for you but you can always do it best with proper training.
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/braking.html (Scroll down to threshold braking)
If you know what you're doing, you can always stop faster without ABS. Threshold braking is best learned with a teacher but can be learned on your own. I would think the police taught threshold braking. I don't know if I've quite mastered it or not, but I do know that I can stop any car I've driven faster without the ABS.
ABS is a threshold braking system for those who haven't even heard of it or care to learn it... the car will attempt to do it for you but you can always do it best with proper training.
ABS doesnt need a number of lives to be saved for it to be beneficial. Its like a dim lit road that just got a new set of lights... or driving an SUV instead of a little econo box.... its meant to keep you safer but because of that you tend to speed and do more without thinking about it because you know you have an advanced system to keep you safe when braking.
11-05-2004, 11:28 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by Ant96GLE
I hope I'm not stopped a red light when you come barreling through.
This is my first car with ABS. Every once in a while I slam on the brakes going down this REALLY steep hill approaching the the entrance to my college (with inches to spare on rain-slicked roads). I make sure it's nothing I can't get out of if the brakes do lock up, but it is one helluva ride!
11-06-2004, 05:23 AM
#22
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I have to make one last comment in this thread.
You shouldn't feel any differance between ABS brakes and non ABS brakes unless your in an emergency (about to loose traction) situation.
They feel exactly the same under normal driving conditions.
You shouldn't feel any differance between ABS brakes and non ABS brakes unless your in an emergency (about to loose traction) situation.
They feel exactly the same under normal driving conditions.
11-06-2004, 05:48 AM
#23
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yeah, threshhold braking is almost always better than ABS, but it's hard to do. For the general population ABS is a great improvement over locking up the tires.
also, I don't believe the ABS in our maximas is too sensitive. With my experience testing the maxima ABS (yeah, we actually drove around trying to get it to go off), it doesn't activate till your wheels lock up. On gravel, dry, and wet roads; my ABS didn't activate till I heard a chirp from the tires.
also, I don't believe the ABS in our maximas is too sensitive. With my experience testing the maxima ABS (yeah, we actually drove around trying to get it to go off), it doesn't activate till your wheels lock up. On gravel, dry, and wet roads; my ABS didn't activate till I heard a chirp from the tires.
11-06-2004, 11:51 AM
#24
Would someone please tell my why you can't do threshold braking on a car with ABS? YOU CAN. ABS only comes on when you CROSS THE THRESHOLD and the wheel starts SKIDDING. Sounds like most of you don't understand the fundamentals of ABS:
"The controller monitors the speed sensors at all times. It is looking for decelerations in the wheel that are out of the ordinary. Right before a wheel locks up, it will experience a rapid deceleration. If left unchecked, the wheel would stop much more quickly than any car could. It might take a car five seconds to stop from 60 mph (96.6 kph) under ideal conditions, but a wheel that locks up could stop spinning in less than a second.
The ABS controller knows that such a rapid deceleration is impossible, so it reduces the pressure to that brake until it sees an acceleration, then it increases the pressure until it sees the deceleration again. It can do this very quickly, before the tire can actually significantly change speed. The result is that the tire slows down at the same rate as the car, with the brakes keeping the tires very near the point at which they will start to lock up. This gives the system maximum braking power." (www.howstuffworks.com)
That is totally incorrect. Maximas, like most cars, have 4-channel, 4-sensor ABS systems. "There is a speed sensor on all four wheels and a separate valve for all four wheels. With this setup, the controller monitors each wheel individually to make sure it is achieving maximum braking force." (www.howstuffworks.com) Therefore, if only one wheel starts to lock up, ABS will ONLY pump that wheel to maintain maximum braking force.
"The controller monitors the speed sensors at all times. It is looking for decelerations in the wheel that are out of the ordinary. Right before a wheel locks up, it will experience a rapid deceleration. If left unchecked, the wheel would stop much more quickly than any car could. It might take a car five seconds to stop from 60 mph (96.6 kph) under ideal conditions, but a wheel that locks up could stop spinning in less than a second.
The ABS controller knows that such a rapid deceleration is impossible, so it reduces the pressure to that brake until it sees an acceleration, then it increases the pressure until it sees the deceleration again. It can do this very quickly, before the tire can actually significantly change speed. The result is that the tire slows down at the same rate as the car, with the brakes keeping the tires very near the point at which they will start to lock up. This gives the system maximum braking power." (www.howstuffworks.com)
Originally Posted by Igobuk
But there are times when it will activate when not wanted. For example, the street is all dry except for a small patch of ice about the size of the contact patch of the tire. The patch is only one side of the car. You're coming to a stop from about 40 mph and your right wheel catches the ice patch and activates your ABS. Now your brakes, instead of applying the force you expected are pulsing. In between every pulse there is a moment when the car isn't being slowed and your coming up too fast now on the car at the light and you have to either swerve out of the way (hopefully there's room) or slam hard on the pedal and hope you stop in time.
11-06-2004, 02:34 PM
#25
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if the ABS comes on enough to annoy you..you're driving too fast in the rain. Thank god you have it.
11-06-2004, 03:48 PM
#27
Good luck turning while skidding into whatever is in front of ya.
Originally Posted by zack342
i was driving too fast. but abs makes stops longer so if anything abs would actually aid in my accident. whatever i can disable it. thanks for the info guys
11-06-2004, 05:30 PM
#30
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Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Old one did. New one doesn't. But then again I don't overdrive my car in the rain and I have 13" rotors and 4 piston calipers up front and 1" larger rotors in the rear. And yourself?
11-06-2004, 09:11 PM
#31
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lets put it this way.... "do u want to control the car or you want the car to control you?"
personaly i dont care if the car has ABS or not.. cause i learned how to drive without them... yes theres alot of TECH in ur cars to make us safer... but all of that TECH takes away the fun outa driving and the car has more control over how we drive...
personaly i dont care if the car has ABS or not.. cause i learned how to drive without them... yes theres alot of TECH in ur cars to make us safer... but all of that TECH takes away the fun outa driving and the car has more control over how we drive...
11-06-2004, 09:38 PM
#32
Originally Posted by NismoTunin
lets put it this way.... "do u want to control the car or you want the car to control you?"
personaly i dont care if the car has ABS or not.. cause i learned how to drive without them... yes theres alot of TECH in ur cars to make us safer... but all of that TECH takes away the fun outa driving and the car has more control over how we drive...
personaly i dont care if the car has ABS or not.. cause i learned how to drive without them... yes theres alot of TECH in ur cars to make us safer... but all of that TECH takes away the fun outa driving and the car has more control over how we drive...
11-06-2004, 09:40 PM
#33
Originally Posted by zack342
No,stock brakes but then again my car weighs almost 200 pounds less than your car does. But Z brakes are cool.
I agree though, the ABS kicks in too much, even in dry pavement, but then, my tires are bald
11-06-2004, 09:46 PM
#34
Since you have a 99 and since yours has abs while mine doesn't, I really doubt yours is 200lbs lighter. I thought only the early stripped 95s were lighter?? Nice try anyway.
Originally Posted by zack342
No,stock brakes but then again my car weighs almost 200 pounds less than your car does. But Z brakes are cool.
11-07-2004, 08:39 AM
#35
if your brakes look up, bigger brakes are going to make them lock up easier. I have Axxis pads and I can lock my brakes at 70 mph, then the abs kicks in. The pads that were on the car when I bought it would only fade. SO big brakes on a street car are moot.
11-07-2004, 09:31 AM
#36
Not when you upgrade both front and rears. Test out a car with really nice brakes sometime. Mustang, Vette, G35 with brembo package etc...
Originally Posted by JSutter
if your brakes look up, bigger brakes are going to make them lock up easier. I have Axxis pads and I can lock my brakes at 70 mph, then the abs kicks in. The pads that were on the car when I bought it would only fade. SO big brakes on a street car are moot.
11-07-2004, 11:54 AM
#39
I have a mag some where that tested 2 Sentra Spec V's. It has been awhile since i read it but i think this is how it went. One had the stock brakes and ABS, the other had Brembos and no abs. the brembo car had longer braking distances by a few feet. Im sure it had less fade but I don't remeber the article very well. But i knoe the stock brakes stopped shorter.
11-07-2004, 11:56 AM
#40
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Originally Posted by JSutter
I have a mag some where that tested 2 Sentra Spec V's. It has been awhile since i read it but i think this is how it went. One had the stock brakes and ABS, the other had Brembos and no abs. the brembo car had longer braking distances by a few feet. Im sure it had less fade but I don't remeber the article very well. But i knoe the stock brakes stopped shorter.