rocco5446

iTrader: (2)

One things that's been bugging me about some of the advice I've been reading is the level of difficulty associated with a job. One thing I'd like to see is a sticky (perhaps in the FAQ thread) that covers most of the common jobs along with a difficulty rating. For example, I've seen posts where people have described a suspension upgrade as being easy, but I've also seen posts describing the cleaning of the throttle body as easy. I would have to agree that the throttle body cleaning is an easy job, but I think the suspension swap would have to be rated a bit higher. Using the example above, on a scale of 1 to 10, I'd rate the throttle body cleaning at around 1 or 2, and the suspension swap around a 5 (When I swapped out my springs and struts last summer, I ran into some fairly rusted bolts that were pretty tough to loosen, and the job of compressing the springs proved to be tiring without air tools).

It would be cool to see not only the difficulty rating, but also an explanation of why the rating is set. For instance, replacing the fuel filter is usually an easy job, but it can also be a real pain, depending on how big your hands are, or how long that old filter has been sitting there.

I'd be more than willing to put together a list, as long as you're all willing to contribute some of your hard earned knowledge.

To get things started, here's a short list of the most common jobs I see on a regular basis:

- Cleaning the throttle body
- Checking and diagnosing the ECU
- Fuel filter change
- Installing a CAI
- Installing new springs and/or struts
- Replacing O2 sensors
- Replacing knock sensor
- Replacing external lights
- Upgrading exhaust components
- Replacing brake pads
- Replacing rotors

What do y'all think?

Akumachan

iTrader: (12)

I like that idea a lot being a newbie. I've only done 2 of those, fuel filter and diagnose ECU. I'd say ECU gets at most a 1, preferably something smaller, and the fuel filter is maybe a 2. it can be a pain, but theres not a lot involved in it.

TonyGotSkilz

iTrader: (6)

This is a good idea, it would help alot of people, i've done practically everything from changing spark plugs to a complete engine swap, and i did it all without any prior knowledge of what i was doing. So i can help rate most maxima jobs on a 1-10 type scale, but you really have to make the scale worth while and plan it out. Because for example the fuel filter job, it may be "easy" to do, but it can take hours if u can't get in there, same with the knock sensor swap. Are you going to rate jobs on How long they take, how hard they are or even how many extra (uncommon tools u need).

Heres an idea of how ratings should be IMHO feel free to agree or knock it.

Knock Sensor:
Time involved: 15-45 min. (here you'd put the estimated time)
Uncommon Tools: 14mm (i think) swivel socket (list all uncommon tools needed)
Overall Difficulty: 3 (1 would be something that really can't go wrong like checking your ECU codes 5 should be something like suspension install and it should go through to 10 being a complete engine tear down and rebuild).

I think this will work as long as theres some sort of frame of reference for each rating. If This gets going i'd be more than happy to contribute to a sticky on it.

Akumachan

iTrader: (12)

^ great idea, numbers alone dont say too much, but thats a great way to define exactly how difficult it is

JSutter

iTrader: (46)

Somethings are harder to do than others that is a given. But skill levels among individuals will differ greatly. Joe Schmo with a good automotive background can easily do brakes, but John Smith is a noob. He cannot even replace a fuse in his car without help. They clearly have different skill levels. Also I would like to point out that if you have done the job multiple times it ususally gets easier. I have done the suspension so many times that it has become a 1 to me (seriously). I recently installed cams on an SR20 and that was like a 1 to me too, just because I have a pretty good background, or maybe I just follow directions well . But I dont really want to rebuilt a tranny. Anyway the difficulty metter may need some work, maybe ranging 0-100? Also having 3 levels; novice, handy, and experienced. Well, im out of ideas now......but this topic is a pretty good idea.

RockfordMax

iTrader: (2)

First off, I agree with you. Being a 16 year old that knows more about his car than what he is studying in school(thanks to the .org), I find some of the things listed above easy, but friends have no clue what to do for certain symptoms. This makes a huge difference in relative difficulty ratings. I.e. in 1 day I added a fstb, catback, cleaned tb, ks, and new ff. But if I were even to tell my friend(maxima driver of course) to do any of that, he would probably look at me and cry. Unfortunately, after all of that, I still have no recommendation for a good all around rating system, but I agree that there should be a novice/intermediate/advanced rate. Just my .02

venompwr2

iTrader: (27)

I have to agree with what most of these guys have said too. To me all of those things are a 1 or 2, excepet for the suspension, which isnt really difficult, but more time consuming if you are putting it all together. Ratings are more relative to how much car knowledge you have and experience working with things. If you're doing something for the first time, you might find it to be extremley difficult, where as someone who has done it a bunch of times can do it no problem.

rocco5446

iTrader: (2)

Those are some really good points. I'm thinking that difficulty ranges might be the way to go, where a job has a low number for experienced people and a higher number for newbies. One thing I'd like to point out is the purpose of these ratings are to give people who haven't done these jobs a better idea of what's involved. i.e. possible time, skill and tools required. For those of us who have already done the work, we already have a pretty good idea of what's involved, unless you were really high while doing the work, and don't really recall doing the work, just that it was done, and that you were there. Everyone's skill varies, as well as our cars. Some have little or no corrosion to deal with, which makes working on certain parts a whole lot easier than a car where the bolts require a torch in order to loosen.

I've learned a ton of stuff from all you guys on the org, (my thanks to everyone) but as the threads keep growing, the knowledge is getting scattered and harder to locate. I'd like to think that this forum has better members than some of those other sites I've checked out in the past, and helping newbies out as much as possible (almost all of us were newbies at some point) is one more way to make this forum kick a$$ even more.

I'll take a crack at putting something together, and post it sometime tomorrow night.

chenzarino

iTrader: (2)

- Cleaning the throttle body - uhhh, dump a bottle of injector cleaner in your gas tank

- Checking and diagnosing the ECU - this is easy, especially if you have a Scantool.

- Fuel filter change - easy with no ABS, bloody knuckles with ABS

- Installing a CAI - 2 hr job tops, just dont break your MAF

- Installing new springs and/or struts - unless you have a lift, let a shop do it

- Replacing O2 sensors - another one where a lift comes in handy, nothing more than unscrewing sensor and unplugging it

- Replacing knock sensor - easy, bloody knuckes tho

- Replacing external lights - just nuts n bolts, minor modifications depending on the application

- Upgrading exhaust components - another one where a lift comes in handy, just bolt-on stuff tho

- Replacing brake pads - don't eff with your brakes unless you know what ur doin, but they're easy to do if done right

- Replacing rotors - whack em off with a hammer, put new ones on

TonyGotSkilz

iTrader: (6)

I have to disagree with a bunch of what u said here, u don't clean ur TB by pouring anything into you gas tank, you clean the injectors that way not your tb Air goes into you TB not fuel... and why would u need a hammer to replace rotors? And also u don't need a lift to do shocks/springs all u need is a jack, and jackstands are helpful, I think this is why a sticky like this is necessary, lots of misconceptions like these.

Also I think its safe to say if your lookin at the rating for a job, u haven't done that job before. So a 1-10 scale should be fine. If your an expert on changing brakes your not going to go to the stickies to and see what a brake jobs rating is. How many veterans here use the stickies at all? Stickies are mostly for noobs so all rating should be in reference to someone who doesn't know what they are doing, but has enough know how to want to attempt to do it.

I30_DRIVER

Great Stuff 1-10 I Give This Idea A 10

Akumachan

iTrader: (12)

now that makes sense, and a lot of it. i dont know why some people were talking about pros, cuz the pros arent gonna need this anyways.

Akumachan

iTrader: (12)

I30 Driver, that maxima emblem on your front bumper is so subtle, yet so awesome... is that just the one off your trunk?

chenzarino

iTrader: (2)

A. What do you think fuel injector cleaner does
2. How many sets of rotors that have been on for years just pull right off(not many)
C. It is 1,000,000,000,000 times easier with a lift, maybe i'm just spoiled becasue I have a shop where I can use theirs.

Edit: Also, wouldn't want to feel responsible if some 16 year old drops his car on himself or tries to change his own brakes and screws it up and crashes his car. Remember, not everyone is as handy as others, something to take into consideration.

sryth

Hmm...I never understood those number-type rating systems. Brakes should be a 1, but a lot of people will consider brakes tricky.

The problem with using a discrete rating system is that you have a predefined cieling...so, if 'changing a fuse' is 1, what will 'R&R of a clutch' be? 10? How about rebuilding a 5spd? An auto?

I think having a repository of writeups for each job, listed in order of complexity would be best.

Make them all links to writeups and throw 'em on the web somewhere.

chenzarino

iTrader: (2)

Someone pay me money ill do it.

Akumachan

iTrader: (12)

i was able to pull my brake rotors off with absolutely no trouble at all, just gave em a good tug. and by the way, i think fuel injector cleaner cleans fuel injectors, which if i remember correctly, arent in the bloody TB.

BORQUA79

To clean TB:
Remove piping up to throttle body (on stock from the rubber ribbed tube to the air filter) Take it out in one piece.
Use Throttle body cleaner and a white low lint rag and spray the butterfly plate and inside of pipe.
Wipe, Pull back the throttle cable to open the butterfly plate and spray behind the plate and wipe more... If you want use a toothbrush and scrub where the plate meets the diameter of the tube (this is where most of the gunk is) and everywhere you can reach and see. Just wipe and spray untill the rag doesnt wipe dirty. Get behing the butterfly plate if you could. Replace everything you took apart and enjoy you better idle and easier starts...

Be safe disconnect battery ect ect

P.S. fuel injection cleaner does NOT clean the trottle body...

questwest

i was going thru stillen catalog and they have wrenches describing how hard it is to install something it was up to 5 wrenches and in my view it was pretty much accurate

TonyGotSkilz

iTrader: (6)

Yeah i think we are losing site of the first post here too, Rebuilding your tranny isn't a "Common job" So the 1-10 system wouldn't encompass it. Common jobs will be things that anyone can do without having prior experience, and NO u can't rebuild a tranny without prior experience (unless your nuts or a genius or both) Also i've never had trouble getting any of my rotors off (shrug) and i've changed the stock ones on 2 95 maxes and a 2001 sentra without having to use a hammer, i think u just lack patients and finese

Also this isn't going to be a HOW 2 sticky its going to be a difficult sticky for n00bs. So your not gonna see a write up on how to take apart your engine in there. All its gonna say (if it ever happens) is: This job is X hard and u will need X (insert unusual tool here ie: spring compressor). And maybe to be nice where the part is, like TB = located next to your throttle (lol not your fuel injectors like some ppl think)

MaxMadeMebroke

Should also put a little more time and list all the common tools as well so the noobs know exactly what is needed to get the job done, I know that when your at a young age not everyone has their own tool kit and will have to try and find these tools. Pictures should also be added because think about the first time you popped your hood and went "Wow where was this knock sensor everyone was talking about?!" So things need to be distinguished. Remember, there is already plenty of stickys that do describe a whole lot, this thread was posted in reguards to "Common Jobs" like said above! Good luck in getting this guide together I'm sure it will be a nice addition

-MaXmaDemEbrOke

goodhead

iTrader: (4)

- Cleaning the throttle body -1
- Checking and diagnosing the ECU -2(i always turn it too much grrr)
- Fuel filter change- 3 (that bottom line is a *****)
- Installing a CAI -3 (u have to move a few things around)
- Installing new springs and/or struts - 2( breaker bar/impact wrench helps ALOT)
- Replacing O2 sensors -2(heat it up first)
- Replacing knock sensor-4(its like go fish down there)
- Replacing external lights-2(be PATIENT, mine is cracked @ 3 places good thing they are black)
- Upgrading exhaust components-4(if bolts are rusted, cut em off, put new bolts and drill holes where new ones go in)
- Replacing brake pads-1
- Replacing rotors-3(if your rotor dont have the screw hole to seperate from the hub, ur gonning to do alot of banging)


these are all pretty basic every one of the job u listed a 1rst time home mechanic can do, jsut have proper tools make it alot easier, on top of the normal tools you should consider getting a compressor and air tools( impact, drill, etc), u can find them used on ebay for good price and make things 50% easier, also get some u joints, the high torque ones and normal ones and extentions, and if you do struts get spring compressors. also PB buster, anti seize, jb weld, brake cleaner are your friends. cant think of anythin else right now, but u can never have enough tools

and def get a haynes manual and also a nissan service manual, they sell those one CD on ebay for like $10 good to have 2x refferrence, and remeber if you get stuck trying to get/take something out just go around it or take everything off aroudn so you got some room, label stuff so you know how to put it back together, just dont be afraid to try something, 50% of the time the job is alot easier than you would expect, the other 50% will have you saying ****!!! so jsut be patient and you will be ok

goodhead

iTrader: (4)

if you smart you will jsut buy a new transmission and bolt it on, and believe me my 1rst time trying to take off my rotors ( previous owner had a shop put it one w/o antisieze rusted on like a ****) there is nothing finese about it. it took me 4 hours of trying to " finese" it, i even tryed to cut a line through 1 side of it to get to the hub and pry it off but after 1 hour trying to do it with a dremel i said **** it, borrowed my neighbor's sledge hammer and went to work, came off in 5 mins, no damage to hub or suspense i guess i "finese" those swings

sryth

Hmm...I guess it seems bizarre to me to come up with an absolute rating system. It's all relative, so why not use a relative ranking scheme?

goodhead: Why do you bolt on a new tranny if your smart? Ah...so you get the same diffy bearing problem later! I got it!

[edit]If you're smart, you'll use a bolt and remove them with a few turns of a wrench. (That's only if you're smart enough to buy rotors w/the threaded hole)[/edit]

goodhead

iTrader: (4)

hey 2001 lsd! cant find one? your problem not mine

hey bought the car used, read again and see i didnt have the threaded holes! maybe ill be smart enough to take the rim off to look for that next time i buy a car,

sryth

The 2k1 trannys don't have the diffy bearing problem? You learn something new every day...I'll have to look into that!

Don't have the threaded holes in your rotors? Your problem, not mine

goodhead

iTrader: (4)

u get a for that

sean33

I think a big issue for the "newbs" is that amout of stuff you can f up. Im very iffy when it comes to doing something I know nothing about and I think I could cause more damage by trying to fix it myself. So a good thing would be to list things to aviod doing or problem areas to make sure you aviod. Learn by others mistakes

sryth

I was seriously thinking about putting together some videos for common jobs. I'm camera shy, though

If anyone wants to get together to do this when the weather gets nicer, I'm game.

The best way to determine if a job is too tough for you is to watch it being done.

goodhead

iTrader: (4)

well unless your absolutely brain dead there isnt much you can **** up honestly, start small and work your way up, if john doe the farmer hick can do your saying you cant? have more confidence than that bro