4th gen with ground controls
01-11-2005, 01:45 PM
#2
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 127
I used to have those springs on my car, but I had them with Koni shocks.
At any rate, 375LB is about the minimum that you can go without binding the spring (where coils touch each other from weight of the car).
And of course, there is the harsh ride quality that comes along with springs that stiff. The stock front spring rate on a Maxima is around 150LB/IN with the rear springs for an SE around 200LB/IN.
The reason coilover springs need to be so stiff is because of their smaller diameter compared to conventional springs. Larger diameter springs can handle far more weight load without binding, making soft spring rates possible.
The small diameter coilover springs give an advantage of packaging for wide wheels. But beyond that, the resulting overall stiffness doesn't buy hardly anything in actual handling capability.
Focusing on the overall balance of the car (front vs. rear stiffness) will provide much more improvement than trying to make the whole car stiff.
At any rate, 375LB is about the minimum that you can go without binding the spring (where coils touch each other from weight of the car).
And of course, there is the harsh ride quality that comes along with springs that stiff. The stock front spring rate on a Maxima is around 150LB/IN with the rear springs for an SE around 200LB/IN.
The reason coilover springs need to be so stiff is because of their smaller diameter compared to conventional springs. Larger diameter springs can handle far more weight load without binding, making soft spring rates possible.
The small diameter coilover springs give an advantage of packaging for wide wheels. But beyond that, the resulting overall stiffness doesn't buy hardly anything in actual handling capability.
Focusing on the overall balance of the car (front vs. rear stiffness) will provide much more improvement than trying to make the whole car stiff.
01-11-2005, 03:43 PM
#3
i have no idea wat this guy here is talking about... coil overs as far as pure performace goes is the best way to go. its hands down better then a spring setup. if i remember coil overs are linear while springs are progressive. linear spring offer the best handling u could get while they might not be as soft as progressive springs. i have gc and people say my car doesnt lean at all. i also like my extra bit of stiffness.
01-11-2005, 04:18 PM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 225
Basically what he's saying is that stiffer springs doesn't always necessarily mean best handling characteristics. Your better off researching more on this subject, try this: http://maxmods.dyndns.org/index.php?SuspensionSelection . Everyone refers to this in here as the suspension bible.
01-11-2005, 06:33 PM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 225
Not with GC's because of the spring rate on them. They are inherently stiffer because of the smaller spring diameter. Making them stiffer compensates for the smaller spring diameter thus a stiffer ride. That's another thing that Fulltone74 was trying to explain earlier.
Originally Posted by ddoles
I'm looking for more of a smooth/comfortable ride, if there is such a thing with the ground controls/agx combo.
01-12-2005, 06:52 AM
#7
When you guys are referring to diameter it sounds like you are talking about how tightly the spring is coiled (2.5" in ground controls case). If that is the case, that is not what determines the spring rate. What determines the spring rate is the distance between the coils (about 1" for the average coilover spring) and the thickness of the steel rod used.
With ground controls, most people have their car really low. The "bottoming out" that most people experience with maximas lowered that low is the bumpstops actually hitting the upper strut mount, not coil binding. Maximas have so little front wheel travel as is, that when you lose 3 more inches, there's no travel left. With my front end lowered 2.75", and my bumpstops cut down to 1/4 of their original size (about .5" thickness as opposed to about 2") I only have about 1.25-1.5" of travel. Even with a spring rate as stiff as 500lb/in in the front, you can bottom that out on harsh bumps, bad train tracks, etc. and when you do, you definately feel it.
If you are looking for a compliant, comfortable ride, ground control coilovers are definately NOT what you want under any circumstances.
With ground controls, most people have their car really low. The "bottoming out" that most people experience with maximas lowered that low is the bumpstops actually hitting the upper strut mount, not coil binding. Maximas have so little front wheel travel as is, that when you lose 3 more inches, there's no travel left. With my front end lowered 2.75", and my bumpstops cut down to 1/4 of their original size (about .5" thickness as opposed to about 2") I only have about 1.25-1.5" of travel. Even with a spring rate as stiff as 500lb/in in the front, you can bottom that out on harsh bumps, bad train tracks, etc. and when you do, you definately feel it.
If you are looking for a compliant, comfortable ride, ground control coilovers are definately NOT what you want under any circumstances.
01-12-2005, 07:03 AM
#8
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46
Thanks for the info, i haven't had a problem with bottoming out, would it help any if i went with the eight inch, 380 lbs ground control, or just ditch them altogether and go with maybe something like the weapon-r, since it will offer a more comfortable ride combined with the agx.
01-12-2005, 07:06 AM
#9
There's a lot of BS being sloshed around in this thread....
First, the diameter of the coils is not what determines load capacity. Spring rate has nothing to do with this. Stock springs are tall and soft. If you put a tall, soft spring on your coiovers and set the ride height at stock, it would ride like OEM.
Spring rate is spring rate reardless if spring size.
Second, spring stiffness has a HUGE influence on overall handling. Stiffer springs result in less body roll and pitch. Less body movement on the suspension equals less weight transer. Less weight transfer equals maximized traction at all 4 wheels. Of course, the suspension still needs to be supple enough to allow the wheels to move over bumps, so stiffer is not always better, but it usually is.
Either spring design can be made linear or progressive. Some full size springs are fully linear, some coils overs are progressive. Again, the springs for either application can be made to behave any way the designer wants.
One is not always better than the other. It all depends on what the sprngs will be used for. Unfortunately, the average car guy like me or you has to compromise. We have to mix and match off the shelf parts to get as close as possible to what we want in terms of a a ride VS handling trade off.
The main advantage of height adjustable coil over setups is not that you can go low. It's that you can set up the car very well. You can (and should) have the corner weights measured and set if you are going to bother with adjustable coil overs. If you don't know what that means, read this: http://www.grmotorsports.com/cornerweight.html
Originally Posted by Fulltone74
The reason coilover springs need to be so stiff is because of their smaller diameter compared to conventional springs. Larger diameter springs can handle far more weight load without binding, making soft spring rates possible.
The small diameter coilover springs give an advantage of packaging for wide wheels. But beyond that, the resulting overall stiffness doesn't buy hardly anything in actual handling capability.
The small diameter coilover springs give an advantage of packaging for wide wheels. But beyond that, the resulting overall stiffness doesn't buy hardly anything in actual handling capability.
Spring rate is spring rate reardless if spring size.
Second, spring stiffness has a HUGE influence on overall handling. Stiffer springs result in less body roll and pitch. Less body movement on the suspension equals less weight transer. Less weight transfer equals maximized traction at all 4 wheels. Of course, the suspension still needs to be supple enough to allow the wheels to move over bumps, so stiffer is not always better, but it usually is.
Originally Posted by liqidvenom
i have no idea wat this guy here is talking about... coil overs as far as pure performace goes is the best way to go. its hands down better then a spring setup. if i remember coil overs are linear while springs are progressive. linear spring offer the best handling u could get while they might not be as soft as progressive springs. i have gc and people say my car doesnt lean at all. i also like my extra bit of stiffness.
One is not always better than the other. It all depends on what the sprngs will be used for. Unfortunately, the average car guy like me or you has to compromise. We have to mix and match off the shelf parts to get as close as possible to what we want in terms of a a ride VS handling trade off.
The main advantage of height adjustable coil over setups is not that you can go low. It's that you can set up the car very well. You can (and should) have the corner weights measured and set if you are going to bother with adjustable coil overs. If you don't know what that means, read this: http://www.grmotorsports.com/cornerweight.html
01-12-2005, 01:22 PM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,391
Originally Posted by ddoles
Thanks for the info, i haven't had a problem with bottoming out, would it help any if i went with the eight inch, 380 lbs ground control, or just ditch them altogether and go with maybe something like the weapon-r, since it will offer a more comfortable ride combined with the agx.
http://maxmods.dyndns.org/index.php?SuspensionSelection
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Finkle
4th Generation Maxima (1995-1999)
13
09-27-2015 09:53 PM
95Maxi
4th Generation Classifieds (1995-1999)
35
09-02-2015 10:37 AM