Coils... I think I know why Hanshins Fail
03-21-2005, 04:06 PM
#41
Originally Posted by Mr.Duck
im not giving props to anyone just yet. There still is NO proof that it will fix our coilpack problems, just because one guy says that it "pulls" harder, does not mean it actually worked. Someone get a CEL for a coilpack, clean it, reset ECU, and than tell us if it comes back or not. If the CEL does not come back, that is when i give props, but untill than i think props should not be issued yet.
03-21-2005, 06:09 PM
#43
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well I guess if two people have so far produced positive results and I hope it's not just mental, I will give this a try this weekend, as taking out the coil packs is relatively easy on our cars and fast!...
03-21-2005, 06:45 PM
#44
Originally Posted by michaelnyden
well I guess if two people have so far produced positive results and I hope it's not just mental, I will give this a try this weekend, as taking out the coil packs is relatively easy on our cars and fast!...
if i were you guys like i said before, ck this guys site out and it might just might help you with the fundamentals
Wiking
is his org name and he has a great site on car d that explaines alot of stuff electrical....
have a great day
03-21-2005, 09:25 PM
#45
My Max kicks and stutters a little while idling (warm). I cleaned out the TB and IACV and I'd say 80% of it went away. I decided to try this cleaning thing out, with just the front 3 coils, and they were impecable. So clean, in fact, that the Q-tips came out the same color they went in - WHITE. I wasn't able to try the rear 3 because it was getting dark out, and I won't be able to try it out tomorrow because my girlfriend is taking the Max to work, so I can change the oil on her Legend. As soon as I'm able to clean the rear 3 out, I'll let you guys know.
-Maurice
-Maurice
03-21-2005, 09:58 PM
#46
Originally Posted by jblinga
He did exactly that and fixed his problem if you would've read in more detail
03-22-2005, 05:07 AM
#47
Originally Posted by memphis_sktr
What does this supposed to mean. That it is weird for a "newbie" to give props to someone. I may be a "newbie" but you really don't know me personally. So anyways, frome a "newbie" in the org. PROPS.
i hit your reputation points, thanks nino/
03-22-2005, 05:13 AM
#48
Originally Posted by 1qwkmax
Although the coppers allow for a better spark, it takes about 30% more effort to send this spark through the copper as opposed to the platinum, therefore over working the coil packs and frying them.
03-22-2005, 06:29 AM
#49
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,327
Originally Posted by kc10fish
as an aircraft mech. i see alot of problems with different things, and i see alot of different electrical problems all the time. here is the problem, alot of metals when cold as we know contract - causing loose connections - but in fly by wire systems we see that metals react differently in warm temps as opposed to cold ones. in the air flying you have a problem cause of a contact (cold) but when on ground and warm no problem. so i ask you, when hot what causes the most resistance (copper or the plat) test cold then test hot and use a mega ohmer as well.......not a fluke
Metals in general don't contract and expand unless you are increasing gravity on the metal by placing it at extreme heights or depths. If they did you would probably see more problems with head gaskets or aluminum heads than a tiny spark plug or coil packs unless the construction was shoddy.
I would imagine you have more experience with faulty wires or old corroded wire jackets causing faults than some expansion of the metal inside the insulation.
But you tell me.
03-22-2005, 07:49 AM
#50
Originally Posted by Ninos_Maxima
Update**** Important Information concerning Money and Coils... (lol) Ok I tried cleaning it with a q-tip. That didnt work, Pulled out the dremel and got to workin. Cleaned off the durt and had a successfull install. The car is running better then before. But I still have to do this to all of the other coils. the coil in its before state was broken and created missfires. It was also a spare coil I had lying around and now I think its almost like new.
Caution and a warning this was only initial usage and driving around for 15 min.
Caution and a warning this was only initial usage and driving around for 15 min.
03-22-2005, 09:00 AM
#51
there was more than 1 coil that went bad in his car, so your telling me that he can tell if 1 cylinder is misfiring, and the other is not? wow thats pretty cool! yea.. i think not.
so he replaced 1 coil, and said its not misfiring? and once again, there was nothing about the cel going off, i want more proof
so he replaced 1 coil, and said its not misfiring? and once again, there was nothing about the cel going off, i want more proof
03-22-2005, 10:38 AM
#52
Whether the plugs are platinum or copper isn't even remotely an issue here with coil pack failures. By bringing that argument up are you actually saying that all OR most '99 & '00 Maxima owners that have coil issues are mistakenly using coppers?
Umm...no. I'd say about 10% of Maxima owners even know they can use coppers instead. That same 10% being Maxima enthusiasts...with the 90% of other owners that experience the same problem are non-enthusiasts or don't know of any alternative spark plugs.
Try going into any parts store and get some coppers for a Maxima. They will only say platinums are listed.
Umm...no. I'd say about 10% of Maxima owners even know they can use coppers instead. That same 10% being Maxima enthusiasts...with the 90% of other owners that experience the same problem are non-enthusiasts or don't know of any alternative spark plugs.
Try going into any parts store and get some coppers for a Maxima. They will only say platinums are listed.
03-22-2005, 10:40 AM
#53
Originally Posted by Mr.Duck
there was more than 1 coil that went bad in his car, so your telling me that he can tell if 1 cylinder is misfiring, and the other is not? wow thats pretty cool! yea.. i think not
03-22-2005, 09:17 PM
#57
I just tried this. My car was running like crap, with 0604 on the ECU. I cleaned out the top portions of the coil pack with a dremel grind bit - it went from a dull grey to a bright silver.
I put the coils back on and wow, big difference - engine shudders a little, but nothing like before. I'm still getting 0604 off then engine - but I've got that coil pack coming soon.
Cleaning the bottoms of the coil pack (not necessarily the spring), is the kicker here. You'll need a dremel or some kind of bit to get in there and softly grid away the layer that's built up in there.
For me, the notice was in the engine response and how much harder it pulled from before. This is definately an A+ maintenance tip.
I put the coils back on and wow, big difference - engine shudders a little, but nothing like before. I'm still getting 0604 off then engine - but I've got that coil pack coming soon.
Cleaning the bottoms of the coil pack (not necessarily the spring), is the kicker here. You'll need a dremel or some kind of bit to get in there and softly grid away the layer that's built up in there.
For me, the notice was in the engine response and how much harder it pulled from before. This is definately an A+ maintenance tip.
03-22-2005, 11:20 PM
#58
First off, mr Joe Blow at NGK is BS'ing you, there isn't enough variance in the resistance of Copper and Platnum plugs to cause coil packs to blow, that's simply a line to sell the more expensive Platnum plugs. I've heard this line many times and have not yet seen coil pack damage that can be explained in this way, though, the platnums do have a bit longer life expectancy. Secondly, my I30 started throwing a CEL recently and after trying this on my non-sealed Hanshins, I reset the CEL and have been driving for 3 days with smoother idle and no recurrence of the CEL. I think I can offer an explanation for why this helps, It would seem the Hanshins are failing because dirt and moisture are entering and coating contact surfaces, the resultant dirt buildup, tarnish (oxidation), and possibly even corrosion destroy the connection between the contacts and cause the pack to fail, by cleaning it, you are renewing the connection between the contacts and making the packs function as they are supposed to. I used some PCB cleaner from radio shack that I use on many electronic and electrical devices, it seemed to work pretty well. Honestly, I wonder why Hanshin didn't think to seal these things...
03-23-2005, 07:07 AM
#59
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 17
You can think of arc from the sparkplug as a mini lightning. The air around the sparkplug gap act as an insulator. When there is enough potential energy(from the coil) the air would break down in an attempt neutralize the potential difference, thus the arc is produced. The energy require to “jump the gap” increases as the gap increases.
There are three types of materials that are used in sparkplug, copper, platinum and iridium. Copper has a melting point of 1100C, platinum 1800C, and iridium 2500C. Each time a spark is produce, a little bit of the material is melted off the sparkplug, thus causing the gap to widen a tiny bit. Due to the difference in melting point, copper would shed more material per spark. It is the lost of material that cause the gap to widen. From above, you can see that iridium would last the longest.
Brand new plug, copper should require the least amount of energy to jump the gap assuming they all have the same gap. This is because copper have the least electrical resistance between all three. This resistance difference would become trivial when the gap widens.
The gap widen faster in a copper plug. So, the fact that after 30K miles the copper plug may require 30 percent more energy then the platinum makes sense.
There are three types of materials that are used in sparkplug, copper, platinum and iridium. Copper has a melting point of 1100C, platinum 1800C, and iridium 2500C. Each time a spark is produce, a little bit of the material is melted off the sparkplug, thus causing the gap to widen a tiny bit. Due to the difference in melting point, copper would shed more material per spark. It is the lost of material that cause the gap to widen. From above, you can see that iridium would last the longest.
Brand new plug, copper should require the least amount of energy to jump the gap assuming they all have the same gap. This is because copper have the least electrical resistance between all three. This resistance difference would become trivial when the gap widens.
The gap widen faster in a copper plug. So, the fact that after 30K miles the copper plug may require 30 percent more energy then the platinum makes sense.
03-23-2005, 08:30 AM
#60
Originally Posted by joesmith
You can think of arc from the sparkplug as a mini lightning. The air around the sparkplug gap act as an insulator. When there is enough potential energy(from the coil) the air would break down in an attempt neutralize the potential difference, thus the arc is produced. The energy require to “jump the gap” increases as the gap increases.
There are three types of materials that are used in sparkplug, copper, platinum and iridium. Copper has a melting point of 1100C, platinum 1800C, and iridium 2500C. Each time a spark is produce, a little bit of the material is melted off the sparkplug, thus causing the gap to widen a tiny bit. Due to the difference in melting point, copper would shed more material per spark. It is the lost of material that cause the gap to widen. From above, you can see that iridium would last the longest.
Brand new plug, copper should require the least amount of energy to jump the gap assuming they all have the same gap. This is because copper have the least electrical resistance between all three. This resistance difference would become trivial when the gap widens.
The gap widen faster in a copper plug. So, the fact that after 30K miles the copper plug may require 30 percent more energy then the platinum makes sense.
There are three types of materials that are used in sparkplug, copper, platinum and iridium. Copper has a melting point of 1100C, platinum 1800C, and iridium 2500C. Each time a spark is produce, a little bit of the material is melted off the sparkplug, thus causing the gap to widen a tiny bit. Due to the difference in melting point, copper would shed more material per spark. It is the lost of material that cause the gap to widen. From above, you can see that iridium would last the longest.
Brand new plug, copper should require the least amount of energy to jump the gap assuming they all have the same gap. This is because copper have the least electrical resistance between all three. This resistance difference would become trivial when the gap widens.
The gap widen faster in a copper plug. So, the fact that after 30K miles the copper plug may require 30 percent more energy then the platinum makes sense.
by a newbie.
03-23-2005, 02:16 PM
#61
Nobody was 'owned' here. All coil packs are going to 'work harder' at the end of the spark plug's life span...this is the reason you change them out at 30k/60k.
The spark plug material has -0- contribution to the life span of coil packs. It has already been pointed out that there are certain Hanshins that ARE NOT SEALED PROPERLY thus inducing premature corrosion...leading to early failure.
I swear it's like trying to explain to a 10 yr old.
The spark plug material has -0- contribution to the life span of coil packs. It has already been pointed out that there are certain Hanshins that ARE NOT SEALED PROPERLY thus inducing premature corrosion...leading to early failure.
I swear it's like trying to explain to a 10 yr old.
03-23-2005, 02:25 PM
#62
MrEous - when I pulled the OEM plugs out a while ago, they were fairly corroded and shot. Pretty crappy for plugs that are suppose to last til their cycled next change. I wonder if the OEM plugs on the Max were so bad, they push to coils beyond their limits?
In conjunction with the unprotected coil contacts, these two factors may cause a coil to fail. Just an observation - I really don't understand the mechanices of the coils.
In conjunction with the unprotected coil contacts, these two factors may cause a coil to fail. Just an observation - I really don't understand the mechanices of the coils.
03-23-2005, 02:46 PM
#63
I pulled my stock platinums out at 50k when I went to coppers. I have since changed the coppers at 80k. There was no difference whatsoever in corrosion between the two types of metals. Read on...
Before I changed the plats out at 50k I noticed a little bit of stumbling. Of course this had to do with the spark plug lifespan. A little before 80k when I changed out the coppers it was the exact same thing.
Once again, the spark plug differences make no sense being in this thread...
Before I changed the plats out at 50k I noticed a little bit of stumbling. Of course this had to do with the spark plug lifespan. A little before 80k when I changed out the coppers it was the exact same thing.
Once again, the spark plug differences make no sense being in this thread...
03-23-2005, 03:09 PM
#64
Despite a lot of the BS that is fed to people in the tuner and consumer automotive world about spark plugs, the only differences between different material plugs is the life span, 'spark temperature', and price. I'm sure you've all heard about spark temperature, but the fact is, this only really matters in forced induction engines, where you want the 'coldest' spark you can get, Coppers are fine for our cars, but the Platnums last a bit longer. Further, the Iridiums are great plugs, but you have to think, for the price, are they really going to last much longer, the answer is no, I haven't seen them last more than 10k longer than a good set of Platnums. As for those with Turbos or SC's, I would recommend Coppers as the colder spark will protect against detonation, after all, I doubt many boosted VQ owners have lower compression pistons.
I will re-state my original statement though, I have NOT yet seen failed coils that can be attributed to "improper" spark plugs.
I will re-state my original statement though, I have NOT yet seen failed coils that can be attributed to "improper" spark plugs.
03-23-2005, 04:57 PM
#65
be the change u want2C
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Update. I did all my coils, NO MORE MISS FIRES AT ALL... After successfully obtaining millions of blisters on my fingers. I used this blue polish(Got high off all the damn fumes) then carb cleaner to get all of the blue stuff out. Only thing left is to re gap two of my plugs from 58 to 42, These plugs however where not on the failing coil.
03-23-2005, 07:22 PM
#67
I took apart a spare coil I had lying around from my parts car. I can't believe that they went with such a stupid design. I also question how effective the spring is at conducting power to the plugs. The spring is pretty small. If this is the true cause then wow there has been a lot of money wasted through the years.
Good job Ninos, great find. I am going to clean mine off soon.
Good job Ninos, great find. I am going to clean mine off soon.
03-24-2005, 01:16 PM
#72
i can verify that this is helps. I took a known dead coil cleaned it and then put it in the car. It still misfired so i took the coil out and cleaned the connection some more and blew the residue out with an air compressor and then put the coil back in and everything cleared up. I even drove around for a while to heat up the coil to see if the heat and independence was the cause of the misfiring. I didnt get any misfiring after driving.
03-24-2005, 01:44 PM
#73
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Posts: n/a
ok, I read this entire thread and it seems confusing.
Could someone please compose a list specifying exactly what ought to be cleaned and how? Someone mentioned a radioshack metal cleaner or some sort. Someone else mentioned using a dremel??
I really want to do this because it makes sense and it can't hurt, only help!
edit: also how to take the coil apart and where, without damaging it.
Could someone please compose a list specifying exactly what ought to be cleaned and how? Someone mentioned a radioshack metal cleaner or some sort. Someone else mentioned using a dremel??
I really want to do this because it makes sense and it can't hurt, only help!
edit: also how to take the coil apart and where, without damaging it.
03-26-2005, 04:22 PM
#75
today I took the chance to clean my coils. The front 3 were clean, the rear were a little dirty. Overall everything is back in now and took her for a spin and it seems to have helped out responsivness, my acceleration was lagged a bit but seems to have improved and is more constant. It could just be in my head also. But nonetheless you should do this when you change your spark plugs, its not something that needs to be done like changing your oil. But 
on another add on to maintenance.
on another add on to maintenance.
03-26-2005, 05:42 PM
#76
Originally Posted by MrEous
Whether the plugs are platinum or copper isn't even remotely an issue here with coil pack failures. By bringing that argument up are you actually saying that all OR most '99 & '00 Maxima owners that have coil issues are mistakenly using coppers?
Umm...no. I'd say about 10% of Maxima owners even know they can use coppers instead. That same 10% being Maxima enthusiasts...with the 90% of other owners that experience the same problem are non-enthusiasts or don't know of any alternative spark plugs.
Try going into any parts store and get some coppers for a Maxima. They will only say platinums are listed.
Umm...no. I'd say about 10% of Maxima owners even know they can use coppers instead. That same 10% being Maxima enthusiasts...with the 90% of other owners that experience the same problem are non-enthusiasts or don't know of any alternative spark plugs.
Try going into any parts store and get some coppers for a Maxima. They will only say platinums are listed.
04-01-2005, 08:09 PM
#80
Ok, I'm looking at some spare coils I have and they appear to be made by Mitsu. They don't say Hanshin anywhere on them, and I see what looks like a Mitsu logo above either the number 5426 or 5424. Does this mean these are actually the good ones?