zzeeoo

Anyone knows what is a bad alignment measurement?
I went to NTB and they told me to get my alignment done.
I told them Y and they said something about it being -3
and the regular position is 3. R they trying to charge me
$50 to get my alignment fix even if my alignment is still good.

Daniel B. Martin

There is no way this question can be correctly answered from a distance. Checking and correcting alignment is done with an alignment rack (a precision measuring instrument made for this specific purpose). The only way to know if the technician is misleading you is to stand at his side and read the measurements. If you don't have confidence in the competence or honesty of NTB, get a second opinion from another service facility.

Alignment is not expressed as a single number such as "3". It is a whole set of measurements. This information is from the '99 Maxima factory service manual.

FRONT WHEEL ALIGNMENT

Camber, in degrees.
-1.00 Minimum
-0.25 Nominal
+0.50 Maximum
+0.75 Maximum left and right difference

Caster, in degrees
+2.00 Minimum
+2.75 Nominal
+3.50 Maximum
+0.75 Maximum left and right difference

Kingpin inclination, in degrees
+13.50 Minimum
+14.25 Nominal
+15.00 Maximum

Total toe-in distance, in millimeters
+1 Minimum
+2 Nominal
+3 Maximum

Total toe-in angle (left plus right), in degrees
+0.09 Minimum
+0.18 Nominal
+0.27 Maximum


REAR WHEEL ALIGNMENT

Camber, in degrees
-1.75 Minimum
-1.00 Nominal
-0.25 Maximum

Total toe-in distance, in millimeters
-3 Minimum
+1 Nominal
+5 Maximum

Total toe-in angle (left plus right), in degrees
-0.27 Minimum
+0.09 Nominal
+0.43 Maximum

redmaxpa007

iTrader: (21)

i just got the car lowered and i have 17" instead of the stock 16"

i tried to get an aligment and they said all they could do was make the car go straight.. they would need the specs for the springs from the manufacturer...

so all i can do is get the cal aligned so it will go straight??!!

Mishmosh

iTrader: (3)

NTB here in Cleveland always shows me a print out with what my car measures as well as the normal range right next to it.

For whatever reason, it seems that the front end is the only one that needs alignment. Got a 95 SE and the back end always is within normal limits.

In any case, even when my car lacks any pull either L or R, when I get the alignment checked (hell, it's free), the front seems to out of range in one parameter. Is that possible? Now, if it doesn't seem broke, I don't get it tested!

Kashoggio

iTrader: (11)

thats because you can only do the front on the Maxima not the back.

dch95

The ONLY adjustable spec is the toe adjustment on the front end only. The other alignment specs can be CHECKED but if they fail to fall within tolerance, suspension parts would need to be replaced. Your car may seem to drive straight but trust me (my car is lowered too) the toe measurements are out.

redmaxpa007

iTrader: (21)

so should i even get the toe adjusted..????

vmok

IF your car is lowered, or you've had suspension work done (changed struts, etc...), your alignment will almost be a little off (unless the installer was really luck).

By standard convention, most installers mark the points with their own alignment marks on the suspension pieces as they take the suspension apart. However, a piece that's bolted on 1mm lower or 1mm further in or a nut that's been installed 2 threads lower than before can affect the alignment.

When most suspensions are designed, most are are engineered to give you more negative camber as the wheel travels up into the wheel wells. Strut-type suspensions (like in the Maxima) don't have as much variability on how much camber can be engineered in as the wheel travels as cars with upper/lower control arms (double wishbone style) because the control arm pickup points can be chosed to optimize camber changes during wheel movement.

Therefore, when most cars are lowered, more and more negative camber will be dialed in. Depending on how radical your drop is, this may or may not be able to corrected back to factory specs. In which case, you may need to purchase a camber kit to bring it back within spec.

Do you want it back in spec? Depends. Many autocrossers specifically ask for extra negative camber to be dialed in when getting alignments. This can be up to neg 1.5 to 2.5 degrees. This promotes quick turn in. Too much negative camber, and your car can pull left/right and/or feel twitchy. You'll also get more tire wear on the inside shoulder. This doesn't effect autocrossers as much since during hard corning, they're wearing away at the outside shoulders.

Caster effects how your wheel returns and the kind of kick back you get when hitting bumps. You ever notice how in some cars, you can really feel freeway expansion joints through the steering wheel, while in others, it's more muted? Caster also effects the way a steering wheel returns to center, and somewhat, the on center 'feel' of the car. Some cars, like the Mercedes ML320 have 0 caster. If you've ever driven one, you'll notice that when making a turn, you have to pull the wheel straight, it doesn't like to spin back to the center. Why did they do this? So that when you hit rocks and ruts off road, the steering wheel wouldn't kick in your had.

I don't know what the kingpin inclination does, but the toe obviously effects whether the wheels are pointed stragiht ahead. If toe is off, tire wear will increase, and the car may pull to the side when going straight as well as when braking. There is normally a slight a amount of toe in, otherwise the cars would tend to wander a bit more.

Most people tend to only reference whether the car is going straight when referring to alignment, but there's a bunch of other items to be checked. So your alignment could be off, but the car could still be going straight.

-V

dch95

Yes I would. Even though you may not feel it in the steering wheel, your tires will. And if you are like me and have performance tires that wear out quickly, there is no sense in helping them wear out any quicker than they need to.

_DRU_

but when you get your maximas aligned...do you get the fronts only? i recently dropped my car and went to NTB and some other private shops but they say i have to pay a full $60 to align all four wheels even if they dont have to touch the rear wheels.

kit

i've just had an alignment today. and i was told that the toe of all wheels can be adjusted.

and BTW, anyone have their car's spec? my friend has read my car's alignment spec, and he said it's strange that the rear wheels of max r toe out, not only for my max, but the factory max's specs.

dch95

According to my FSM, the toe on the rear can be CHECKED but not adjusted. If they are not within spec, parts need to be replaced. This is for a 95 but I,m sure all others apply.

_DRU_

so since i just installed my springs, should i just get the 4 wheel alignment and pay 60 buck instead of just aligning the front two wheels?

dch95

I would first wait a couple of weeks just incase they settle down more than now. As far as getting a 4 wheel alignment, I personally would not do it cause for one, they cannot adjust anything. They could tell you if something os out of tolerance though. Unless the car has hit a pothole, a curb or has been in an accident, it is doubtful that anything is wrong with the rear.

Some shops can give you a four wheel alignment in which they align the 2 fronts in correlation with the rears (so I have been told). I could not tell you if there is an advantage in doing this or not though. Perhaps someone can shed some more light on this for you.

kit

I would do it if u feel the car doesn't really go straight ahead.
i had alignment done twice. the first time i did it b'coz i had a set of new springs installed, 2nd time b'coz i hit a curb which made the toe of my car was a little bit off.

vmok

I agree with David, drive it around for a while. Seat people in it, etc... Most springs will sag or settle a little bit. It could even be as simple as some of the rubber mounts compressing a bit as parts work together. Let the struts equalize in pressure, etc...

And I think a 2 wheel's all you need as well.

-V

Stillen_I30

Since I had my new tires and wheels put on (3K miles ago) my entire car vibrates above 75mph. Local tire shop said allignment was off since camber was too negetive (inside of front tires wearing more than outside). Infiniti dealer says camber cant even be adjusted. What should I do...the vibes are ****ing me off...I also notice the steering wheel is very loose at these speeds, and tends to move back and fourth by itself! I tried to get the local tire shop to do a balance, but they said it wasnt the problem (besides, balance and allignment was already done at dealer when wheels were first put on). Need some help...TIA

kit

if u wanna adjust the camber, i guess u need to buy a set of camber plates... that wut i've heard from my friend, but i didn't ask for any details, just heard a little bit abt this when we were talking abt this few weeks ago...

and i guess the dealer can tighten ur steering wheel if u feel it's quite loose.

fast97maxse

useful info

thanks vmok

D.Martin, do yo have that info for a 97 SE?

Also, I put on a Stillen FTSB.
I didn't have a torque wrench,
so I just cranked down the nuts.

Now it feels a bit "twitchy",
more open to a suggestion from a bump to try a new line.

Is my steering just more "responsive",
or could over-torqing the nuts affect my alignment?

Should you get an alignment when you put in a FTSB?

thanks

Daniel B. Martin

If this symptom developed immediately after the new tires and wheels were installed, they are probably responsible. Camber is not adjustable on a stock 4Gen Maxima. Wrong camber causes edge-wear on tires but not vibration.

It is possible for a brand new tire to be slightly out-of-round. It is possible for a brand new tire to have non-uniform stiffness around the 360 degrees of rotation. These tire defects will produce on-the-road vibration but will not be detected by an ordinary wheel balancer. The latest generation of wheel balancers use "road force" measurements, and will reveal such defects. For more information about this kind of balancer, see http://www.craigautometrics.com/huntergsp9700.htm

fast97maxse

the url did not work for me

and do you have the alignment info for a 97 se?

Daniel B. Martin

I edited my earlier post to remove the trailing period. Display that post again and click on the URL. The site is there, I verified it.

I have only the '99 specs, already posted. I believe these are correct for all 4Gen Maximas, but you could verify this with a phone call to your dealer or alignment shop.

NisMax95

Just had my 95 GXE realigned Saturday after putting on a new set of tires. It had been wrecked back in Feb and driven out of alignment with old tires while waiting for body shop appointment. Once it got out of body shop, had to wait for cash to get new tires. By that time it was in bad need of alignment. What I was told by the tech doing the work was that although they cannot adjust the alignment of the rear, what they do is check it and align the front to better match the rear. If the car has been knocked out of alignment (accident, running over curb, etc.) it will sometimes knock the rear's "thrust angle" out of it's normal position. Since this cannot be changed (at least not without some major work), they line up the front to match. Ever see a car going down the road that looked sideways?? Tires were going straight but body looked like it was sitting on the frame crooked? That's what happens.
Mine was out just a little bit, so they adjusted the front and now it rides much better. Before the alignment, I had a bad shaking between 50-80 MPH.. so bad at times (certain roads made it worse) that it would try to shake the steering wheel out of my hand. Now it's gone.
Unless your car has been in an accident or you've ran it over/onto/up against, etc. any curbs or such.. you should be fine with a front end alignment. But be forewarned... if your tires have been on the car for a while with the alignment off, they can pull it back out. Body shop aligned mine when they fixed it, but after driving for a month out of alignment the tires were wore uneven and the car came right back out of alignment.

Stillen_I30

Thanks for the responses...I will also have to check tire pressures since they have never really been set properly (I dont really know the proper settings, but I will try 38 front and 34 rear). Another bit of info: My front tires have the "feather" effect, where if you run your hand one way over the tread of the tire, it feels different from when you rub it in the opposite direction. So each tread block is not the same height as the next progressive block. The rear tires do not show this type of wear, and for some reason, BOTH front tires show this wear. Daniel, shoudl I call around for places which have a Hunter machine?

Daniel B. Martin

Good idea. I don't know how common they are. My most recent balancing was done by my dealer and the results were perfect. I didn't ask what kind of machine they use.

vmok

That feathering can be caused by something as simple as pulling a turn into your driveway as well as the alignment being off.

Depending on the severity of the drop, there may be camber bolts that work as well. The bolts aren't adjustable and are preset at a certain compenstation.

fast97maxse ---> when you installed your strut tower brace, was it on level ground? since you're loosening the bolts to the upper strut mount, the alignment can change on some cars when the screws are loose or off, so you have to be careful not to move the mount. this includes getting in and out of the car/or compressing the suspension.

stillen_i30 ---> too much negative camber will definitely cause the car to get that 'wandering' feeling. too much tire pressure will give you that sensation as well (and possibly give you the vibrations as well). you can do a visible check to see how well the tires are balanced by seeing many weights the tire shop used to put the wheel in balance when they balanced your wheels. tape weights don't do as good of a job balancing a tire, but tend to look better on a wheels as you can't see them (ok, you can see them but you'll need to look through the spokes of your wheels onto the side the brake rotor resides to see them). when tires are mounted, there should be an indicator that makes the heaviest point in the tire (somteims noted by a colored dot that can be rubbed off over time). this point should be opposite of the valve stem (to help offset the weight differential.) if the shop used clip on wheel weights, there shouldn't be more than like 3oz or so of weight on each side of the wheel (inside wheel lip and outer wheel lip). It could take considerably more tape weights to put a wheel into balance.

38/34psi seems kinda high, but can be right considering you have 17" wheels. you'll obviously need more air in the car to maintain the load carrying capacity of the tires for your car, but may want to reference the sticker of someone who has a newer max (2000/2001 optional 17" wheels from Nissan) to see what Nissan recommends in pressure as well (don't remember where it's located, but think it's a sticker under the lid of the center armrest in the car).

-V

Stillen_I30

Hello...I guess I failed to mention that my I30 is the "t" model (same stiff shocks as the SE maximas), and that everything in the suspension system is STOCK. the only major mod i have done is the wheels, and once the new wheels went on to replace my old stock 215/60 15" tires the uneven wear and vibrations started. The "symptoms" again are tire feathering and cupping (as diagnosed by the local Dunlop shop). I just checked the tire pressures, and all are set to around 30 psi, which seems kinda low according to what others fill in their tires. My tires are 235/45 17", and they seem to be inflated quite well (no sagging). Just called the place I bought the wheels/tires from and they are pointing fingers at the dealer and at the suspension system. I should have it checked, but I am sure they will come back saying nothing is wrong. What baffles me is that my car is entirely stock, no problems with the suspension at all, and once I get 235 tires like everyone else, only mine are wearing unevenly while others walk away with no problems. So i *seems* like there is no problem with the suspension...gonna make an apt. with the dealer, too bad they're 60 miles away and I have to suffer the vibrations once again.

fast97maxse

I did it in my driveway.
pretty level side to side
a very slight pitch towards the house.

the car was facing out
so it was pretty level driver-to-passenger
and a bit downhill towards the back of the car.

Can't remember exactly, but I am pretty sure
I didn't get in the car when I put it on.

I have since purchased a tourque wrench.
Should I park on some level spot
loosen all of the nuts and re-tighten to spec?

Or is it [am I] screwed and do I need to take the car in?

Is alignment recommended after a FTSB install?

thanks

vmok

Try putting back on your stock 16" wheels and see if they vibrate if you think it's wheel related.

Does the vibration hit at a certain speed and get progressively worse?

-V

vmok

Normally, you don't need to do an alignment after a stb install, as long as you're careful not to move the settings. One more thing, you tightened the brackets onto the strut towers before you tried to put the cross brace on, right? Of course, given it's like $30-$40 to get an alignment, I'd one if you haven't gotten one in a while anyway.

-V

fast97maxse

I removed all 6 nuts [3 on each tower] at the same time.

I then put both "ring-brackets" on,

then replaced and finger tightened the same 6 nuts,

attached the FTSB to the brackets
and adjusted the "heim joint" on one side
[there's only one on the Stillen FTSB].

Then, as I recall, I tightened the jam nut against the Heim joint.

And then I just cranked down on the 6 nuts
- but not each one all at once -
I moved the wrench around like you do when putting on a wheel
so they would "seat" properly.

I had read about people either stripping or breaking these bolts
so I put a lot of muscle into
[I didn't want these to loosen]
but I didn't go crazy on it like adding a pipe to the wrench to increase my leverage or anything...