95maximase

I've seen some posts of people putting on 2000-1 stock exhausts on their 4th gens. why? and Is there a difference between the se muffler and gxe.

btw, yeah I'm finally a maxima enthusiast. I check this darn thing everyday and post at least once every two days. it took way too long to get here

theblue

the 2000-1 exhaust has a variable backpressure system! you want this

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

True, but how much can a Gen 4 engine take advantage of it?? The biggest power gain that the Gen 5 got was in the new intake manifold. With all the free breathing add ons we put on the Gen 4s, like Y and CAI, the top end doesn't really impove that much, but the middle and bottom does. The Gen 5 exhaust kicks in up top, and the Gen 5 can take advantage of it. If you race a Gen 4 against a Gen 5, after 60 mph or so the Gen5 will start to walk a gen 4 mainly due to the manifold and to a smaller extent the exhaust.
Of course the wieght dis-advantage of the Gen 5 may hurt it a bit, but that's what should happen.

DW

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

Check out this related thread . . . . .

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?threadid=39245

DW

theblue

Dude, no offense, but do you know what you are talking about? A variable backpressure system is ideal for any engine because it will provide just the right amount of backpressure for low or high end... it's a win win situation because you'll always have the ideal amount of backpressure. The one reason I don't think this mod is the greatest thing since red/clear tails is because the muffler on the 4th gen maxima is about as good as it gets in terms of performance... looks/sound/little on the top end is all an aftermarket muffler will help with. Now as for an aftermarket b-pipe.. that should free things up a little

2ndMAX

doesn't the variable back pressure exahust for the 5th gen have a sensor that opens the extra path at a certain rpm. In order to truly see any gains wouldn't you have to have this sensor on the 4th gen??? I believe the its something like a semi-closed exahust path in low rpms to improve torque and at the desired rpm a sensor opens the extra path to aid in less back pressure.

Can someone post any dyno charts of their 4th gen with 5th gen exhaust. I think variable pressure is the way to go but I dont believe 4th gens can reap any true benefits over after market systems except a really quiet exhaust sound.

Kevin Wong

I just bought a y-pipe and b-pipe and was thinking of adding the 5th gen muffler. Although there are mixed reviews about the muffler, ranging from "pure gimmick" to "great improvement." It's proven that the b-pipe is more restrictive than the muffler itself, so I'd do the b-pipe first. I believe the flap inside the muffler is solely controlled by the muffler itself, not by any sensor. The nissan website has a neat little Quicktime amination of the muffler. The idea is get backpressure at a lower RPM and to release excess at a high RPM. Aftermarket mufflers tend to lose power on the low end since the backpressure is lost. However, how often do you drive in the low end. If you're an economical, cheap skate driver like myself, you shift at 2,750 on the average. I think I'd benefit from this muffler.

I'm going to install the y-pipe and b-pipe. Then I'll wait to install the 5th gen muffler. I found a few at $100.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

All I'm saying is that if you're looking for those 32 extra horses that the Gen 5 got, that muffler is not going to do it. It'll help, but not by that much.

DW

vmok

Not sure on this, so don't everyone flame me all at once...

But I think this little device was added in an attempt to get back some or the torque lost in the process of getting more peak horsepower.

Most changes are compromises, and you need to compromise the low end for more peak power. By putting in a little more back pressure, this helps get back some of that lost bottom end.

I had an automatic before, and a 5sp now. I feel that the loss in torque affect the automatic a lot more than the 5sp. For the 5sp, I'm willing to loose bottom end for more top end. When I used to run at the track, the loss in torque by disconnecting the muffler on the automatic was noticible. However, i don't notice at all in my 5sp.

Case in point, the new Pathfinder has two different tunes of the VQ35 engine. One is 240hp and the other 250hp. The 240hp is in the automatic, and tuned for more low and and torque, the 250hp comes with the 5sp.

-V

btw, I don't know how the flap is controlled, but I believe it opens somewhere between 1500-2000 rpm. I also remember reading somewhere that the M3 used a similar setup.

Black VQ

Yes, most of the additional power does come from the variable-length intake runners in the manifold. However, this is air going into the engine. To take full advantage of intake changes, you need some dyno & ECU tuning, which can get expensive. Just the manifold would cost you enough as it is. Since the muffler is just dealing with air leaving the engine, you don't have to worry about messing with the ECU.
So when you think about it, a $100 muffler isn't bad for a few extra hp throughout the rpm range.

Daddy Fat Sacks

would it be wise to use 2 5th gen mufflers on my 95 for my dual exhaust setup or something like apexi or dynomax? I plan to get a y-pipe in the future.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

Understood. But tell me this, given a Gen 4 VQ, comparing the addition of the Gen 5 muffler to the addition of an aftermarket muffler, since the Gen 4 VQ does not have the hi end power of the Gen 5 VQ, will the Gen 5 muffler significantly out-perform and aftermarket muffler?? I think not, simply because the Gen 4 VQ cannot take as much advantage of the dual stage modes of the Gen 5 muffler as the Gen 5 VQ does.

DW

theblue

no gain, but it would look cool!

Black VQ

Just adding an aftermarket muffler won't add any power. There are a scant few on the market that might be able to do that. Like Kevin Wong said, the real restriction is from the b-pipe. That's why the HKS exhaust for the 5th gen made more peak power when Turbo Magazine tested it on the dyno. If they had put the OEM muffler onto the HKS b-pipe, they probably would have gotten more power through more of the rpm range.

Quote:

I think not, simply because the Gen 4 VQ cannot take as much advantage of the dual stage modes of the Gen 5 muffler as the Gen 5 VQ does.

Why couldn't the 4th gen take as much advantage of the muffler? The muffler is just an added part on the exhaust. With the exception of that muffler, there's really nothing different rearward of the engine on the 4th and 5th gens. Just about any car could benefit with the variable outlet muffler.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

When you talk about just adding . . .you're agreeing with me.

As for the "Why couldn't the 4th gen . . ", you're right, the exhaust setup between Gens is very similar, but my point is, because of the better intake of the Gen 5, it can take better advantage of the dual mode muffler of the Gen 5. With the Gen 4, you get a freed up exhaust, but the intake just isn't pushing in air fast enough to work the exhaust, so to speak. You know, it would make sense to put a Gen 5 exhaust on a Gen 4 car if the car had an SC or turbo. Then, there would be substantial benefit.

DW

Black VQ

I'm not trying to be difficult, mind you, but please explain to me how the intake air speed has an effect on the exhaust. The muffler's variable capacity is due to a spring actuator. When rpms-and thus, exhaust flow from the engine- reach a level high enough, the spring opens up a better flowing path through the muffler. It has nothing to do with the speed of the intake air. Even if the airspeed had something to do with performance, it would only affect the engine. The air enters the combustion chamber, stops, is detonated, and is forced out again. The air doesn't just flow straight through the engine, so the speed of the intake charge has little or no effect on the exhaust.

And no, I wasn't agreeing with you. The muffler is an added part on the 4th gen exhaust if the owner decides to put it on. Nissan could have left out the muffler on the 5th gen, but they just stuck it on. That's what I meant by 'added,' because it's pretty much added to both generations.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

Alright, one more reply. I know that the intake air speed has nothing to do with the exhaust. What I'm getting at is that the 5th Gen develops better power up top. It is able to work better with the air coming in at hi rpms than the 4th gen, as you know. Look at the dyno and compare. 5400 rpms onward, the Gen 5 power and torque curve is still going strong, and the gen 4s is dying. At this point is where I think the gen 5 muffler is more beneficial to the Gen 5 than the gen 4.

In short, I know that the speed of intake air has no effect on the exhaust,BUT, the more air you can get in and the more exhaust you can get out, the more powerful the car. They don't affect each other, but they very much depend on each other.

DW