Rutnick

I was merely responding to you. If you want someone to treat you nice, then well, act like it. It's not liked I called YOU a moron or anything. I would be willing for you to show me oversteer in my maxima. I've never experienced it and that is MY point. I think your idea of oversteer and mind are totally different. I was also just pointing out that I have a car and I KNOW what snap oversteer is and son (I believe I can call you this), I've never lost control of it. I drove it and went...hmm..better watch it there but then again, I also remember driving the same generation car when it was NEW.

If you want to escalate this, send me an e-mail. Frankly, I'm wonder what's your problem anway? Just because you have more posts, you might want to consider I donated to this site...have you?

I never challenged you or your driving abilities. If you want to go flame someone, flame the person thinking his Max handles better than a Supra TT. Now...that's funny.

I was making a comparison and comment to a post you made. It is as simple as that. It's not a thread highjack and frankly your attacks are unwarranted. Sorry, I don't agree with you or share your opinion but I didn't tell you to grow up and frankly, you don't have to lecture me on handling. I've probably been driving RWD, FWD cars when you were in diapers.

With all this said, I do thank you for the springs and struts writeup and the pricing. I ended up ordering Tokico HP suspension kit from performance peddler. I got the springs and struts for $369...better than stock and that's all I want.

99NJMAX

I dont mean to hijack the thread but are my bushings set right? Is there anyway to adjust them to increase overstear/understear?

http://home.comcast.net/~an8021/DSCN0870.JPG

d00df00d

iTrader: (4)

Fair enough. I started it, but I won't continue it.

If you ever happen to be in the Philadelphia area, let me know and I'll show you snap oversteer in my Max. There's one corner around here where I can get it pretty reliably.

Hope the springs/struts work out. Remember to share your experiences with the org, because there's practically no info on that set.

d00df00d

iTrader: (4)

I think bringing them closer to the center will bias the car more toward understeer and make it more forgiving at the limit.

idlingmike

It really depends on your definition of handling. If you're talking pure numbers with a professional driver at a track, I doubt the maxima will do well seeing it has nothing exceptional going for it. It's not very light, it's not very powerful, doesn't have a very low center of gravity, doesn't stop particularly well, it doesn't have a very stiff chassis and it's the absolutely least favorable powertrain layout being fwd.

Having said that, it depends on your definition of handling. Handling is not a black and white number the way quarter mile and skidpad numbers are. Many consider chassis / steering feedback, brake feel, how easy the car is to drive at the limit, understeer/oversteer tendancy, powerband and "fun to drive factor" to be just as important as sheer track numbers.

After having the opportunity to push some much more capable platforms including Supras TT's, MR2 turbo, E36 & E46 M3, M5, z06, 996TT, EVO-8 and Subaru STi this is my honest impression on the maxima with basic suspension.... I won't get into stuff like skidpad & braking distances.....afterall, you can take a uhaul truck, stiffen up the suspension, put real sticky rubber on it, and it'll turn a good skidpad number too.

The maxima is a very easy car to drive at the limit. You really know exactly where you are at all times and I can safely push it around the track all day at 110% of its ability. To be fair to the other platforms, one of the reasons for this is it's fwd layout. Although the chassis feel is very good, it's a couple of big steps below the the likes of the high end german sportscars. Chassis rigidity is also a huge step below any of the platforms mentionned above (albiet, this is not a very fair comparison). Someone mentionned snap oversteer earlier, I don't see how this is possible without lifting, braking or throwing the rear end in (or of course, having a very biased non-factory setup, ex. super sticky tires up front, 600 treadwear tires in back). It's very, very hard to spin if you stay on it. Strangely enough, I think the el-cheapo rear suspension layout actually helps with its handling. For those that are unfamiliar, the stickier the rear end is, the more load it will put on the front end, and the more it will understeer. Conversely, the more you loosen up the rear end, the less load you put on the front and the better it will stay planted. Ironically, the maxima's "budget" rear suspension actually improves its handling vs having a nice IRS setup. Unless we're talking a real tight section of road, the handling is surprisingly neutral. Infact, to my memory, this is the only front-drive car I ever drove which I can throttle-rotate mid-turn. (getting the car to understeer or oversteering with only a change in throttle input). It definately feels much sloppier in right tight transitions while also exposing the weakness of FWD.

Braking feel is decent, steering feel is lacking a bit, but tends to wake up a bit when pushed. Powerband is very decent for its horsepower range.

As far as fun factor goes, it's pretty decent for a fwd platform with neutral handling in all but the tight turns, its got a decent powerband, and it has very decent chassis feedback. It being fwd, does take some of the fun out of things though.

As far as track times go, I think most people will have a much easier time running a good time with a platform like this vs something comparable and rwd. (READ: a good time with something comparable and RWD, not a good time as the other platforms mentionned). Reason being, it is much easier to push something like this at 100% and get to know the limits. Even when pushing it past 100%, recovery won't slow you down nearly as much.

I think the original post talked about going forced induction. If you're going to go boosted and are worried about handling, I would probably say get a real front diff, and run better rubber up front.

BEJAY1

iTrader: (19)

Agreed. Even with great suspension setup's the tires are still the weakest link. That's the only thing connecting your car to the pavement. Borry somebody else's 140-200 treadwear tires and feel the difference.

d00df00d

iTrader: (4)

idlingmike: damn good write-up. Way to set it straight.

You definitely have to chuck it *really* hard into a corner or somehow unload the rear suspension to make the rear end come out. I brought it up because we were talking about sway bars, which would increase the tendency for that to happen under those conditions, e.g. hitting a bump in the middle of the turn. Now, because of the characteristics of the car's handling that you pointed out (i.e. sticky rear, forgiving setup, etc.), it's really rare that that kind of thing would actually happen in a way that would upset the car. It is, hoewever, a real concern for anyone who's ever gonna be pushing their car to the limit, because it will happen suddenly and at high speed.

FishyMan

so for Front Tower Struts ALONE on my 97 maxima will i really feel something as a daily driver, street whatever?

Ebay one seem a bit to FRAIL and THIN. I'm caught in between of things, I dont know if I should buy stuff for my daily driver or my beater (honda) which I mess around, learn and do stuff with. It makes sense to buy for a daily driver as I drive it much more (currently), but if I don't beat it around, what good will the Front Tower Struts do?

I did the FAQ and they said it helped a lot, since the maxi's handling suck anway.

I've only found 2-3 brands, EBAY, STILLEN (PRICEY), CATTMAN. The CATTMAN is unique and I like it.

But seriously for an avg college, daily driver, ocassional street spiriting, what am I trying to aim for? Doing all kind suspension mods will be a waste IMO so I am just curious what you guys suggest?

Thanks

d00df00d

iTrader: (4)

It all depends on what you're trying to get out of your car.

If there's something in particular you want out of your car (i.e. you want it to look, feel, or behave a certain way), then it's easy to find parts that will do it for you. Of your two cars, pick the one that's already closer to what you want and mod that one.

If you're just messing around because it's fun and/or you want to learn, then just mod the beater.

About the FSTB.... Definitely get a better one if you can. Whatever you get, though, always remember that it's a relatively minor mod -- it will make a difference, but it won't be totally night-and-day.

Incidentally, in case you decide you'll pay over $100, consider a BlehmCo Stage 2 lower tie bar for $175 + shipping. It bolts to the bottom of your car so you will lose a small amount of ground clearance, but it will do much more good than a FSTB.

Luigi38

iTrader: (2)

My I30 rides like a dream (just got Ksports), I have FSTB, new 18" 235/40 nankang tires, soon to come RSb and I'll be done with suspension.
It's fun to drive now, compared to the boat-like stock suspension I had before.
Please don't compare $40K sports cars handling to the max, it's just nother category.

Luigi38

iTrader: (2)

I totally disagree. I think a suspension upgrade in the maxima is one of the best mods you can do to the car.
-It will give you quicker response
-It will feel faster due to increase handling
-It will give you that sporty sedan feeling and look that the stock maxima lacked

NCSU_MAX

iTrader: (36)

POWER IS NOTHING WITHOUT CONTROL

FishyMan

What I meant was, I"d be wasting my money, if I didn't know what to do and just did it. Who doesn't know that upgrading would be good? right? I'm not denying or erasing the fact that I'll touch the more costly stuffs, but for now, I want to do the basics.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, specifically, what 2 things would be good, as already mentioned;

FTSB, and REAR SWAYS would be a big major upgrades for me. My goals are to improve the systems of things, nothing aesthically at least for now. May I ask, how big of a difference will the REAR SWAYS work on my 97 max? They seem to be pretty easy mods.

My 2 cars are FWD.

Thanks for inputt, chime in w/ different brands. Although, cattman would be my top pick for the $300, FTSB + RSB.

Luigi38

iTrader: (2)

FSTB, makes a lil difference, but you will feel it.
RSB, it's more notorious change.
new struts/springs 100% times the change

In this case Cattman is a waste of money. Any brand will do the same job, go to ebay an get them both for $150. Save your money for something worth it, such a mevi or even better 00VI.

FishyMan

The catt's are titanium? and isn't the purpose of swapping out stock parts w/ thicker, more stronger metal the key? But that's why i'm still looking and evaluating my options. I just don't feel right getting scrawny material for my max, maybe for a civ but not my max.

Some STRUT BARS I've seen are 1 piece.

Ebay hasn't come up with much STRUT bar results, although a lot of INTAKES have popped up.

THE RSB, is the change a better feel ? or will my car's handling change a whole lot? Thanks very much, im still searching, I really don't know what brands there are out there, other than, catts, stills (BOTH PRICEY), and ebay.

ManualMaxima

iTrader: (10)

handles like a lowered boat

jackiss2888

iTrader: (3)

horrible

1o chars

happyricefob

iTrader: (7)

i have tokico HP (front), kyb agx (rear), maxspeed springs, bomz FSTB, energy suspension FSB, progress RSB, custom RSTB, 235/45/17ZR sumitomo HTRZ+ ultra-high all season performance tires.

i don't drive aggresively anymore. i drive speed limit and i don't even know why these mods are on my car. but it's definetly good enough for street driving.

goldmax

I've done the same setup with my car (stock springs + Illuminas) and can't say I agree with the results. The Illuminas on stock springs seem really harsh during the winter. They are fine now that the weather is much warmer, but I was almost ready to ditch them after last winter. It's really the bumps that don't seem to work well in the cold. Going to a higher number like 3 only helped on the small occillating bumps, and made the larger bumps worse. All the bushings, tie rods, mounts, etc. are new, so that's not the problem. I'll see if the harshness returns this fall. Did you set them at 3 all around? Also, was it an SE or the luxury model? Mine is SE and the springs/strut combination may just be too stiff. Your thoughts?

FormorAccordMan

iTrader: (3)

What Tom is saying should be considered law. It is to a tee-what the illumins setup- especially with HR's

Spaniard

iTrader: (1)

I took the Max to thunderhill with stock SE suspension and pushed it to 95% with an instructor. Comment was "im impressed with the maxima's handling" (granted, on 220 treadwear S-03 tires)

-This might be because he expected so little but.. I fully agree with the person who said that the stock setup is easy to push reliably to 100+%. Its nothing if not predictable and recoverable stock.

Since then I had had Koni yellow eibach springs, stillen FSTB, RSTB, 2 degree negative camber and Stillen RSB in. Nice improvment... but nothing earth shatteringly incredible.. The real icing on the suspension cake was that recently I got the LTB-2 (mattblehm.com) and energy suspension (urethane) bushings... and the ride feels easily twice as good. (Quite possibly a factor is the 130K miles on the factory bushings.) I will have track results from the bushings and LTB in a couple weeks in addition to the windy public road feedback.

The best news is that I have the K-sports on order and fully expect to be able to hang with miatas in the turns after they are installed, for sure when I go to R-compound tires and the sub-frame connectors from warpspeed once they get here...

A big factor IMO that makes the max fast on a track is the max's predictability vs the smaller cars (and thus the ability to push it safely), since the wheelbase helps keep it from being jumpy and lets you push it hard without paying a price for small "knocks" or mistakes. Still though, on crappy tires its all amounts to nothing.

alphaerror

I have a FSTB and a RSB both ebay and the handling is greatly improved. and to make it worse, I konw i need some new shocks cuz i can push the car down very easily...

4x4Max

iTrader: (12)

I'd be happy if my shocks/struts were blown because then i'd have a reason to upgrade the suspension without my parents being ****** about it.

cefiro8701

iTrader: (7)

haha...yeah parents are bastards sometimes....


my ride sucks and it's full of body roll...i only have a FSTB....i wish i could get an affordable RSwayBar...

would mileage and use decrease quality??

cefiro8701

iTrader: (7)

nice pics...also...whats that sticking out of the bottom of your car??

goldmax

Did you set them at 3 all around...even the rears? I've got the same setup and found it working well at 3 in the front, 1 in the rear. The ride quality now is great in warm weather, but stinks in the winter...any suggestions?

Spaniard

iTrader: (1)

Heh. that was my first home depot mod. the OSCAI - dryer ducting going into the intake system. Turns out that the stock might have been better. Although to tell the whole story, I had also made a 2nd cold air inlet into the air box. Let me see if I can dig up a pic from my cardomain site...



At that point, I had 2A in addition to the dryer ducting. (There wasnt 2B)

Only 2A in the below pic... The rest was later in the "evolution"



I had alot of fun with this stuff. Eventually I got this going into my airbox!

d00df00d

iTrader: (4)

In case anyone ever takes a flip through this thread, here's something I feel is worth mentioning.

I'm now dropped 2.5" front and 2" rear on Ksport coilovers and 205/55/16 Hankook Ventus Sport K104s. Needless to say, my car handles a ton better than it did on stock springs with 205/65/15 ultra high performance all-seasons. I love it: with the $1.5k spent so far (including wheels), I totally rule highway on/off ramps and interchanges, I can out-corner stock Volvo S40s and Acura RSXs in most situations, it's much much better in the rain, and I have an alternate set of tires for the winter kickin' around.

That said, I have to give a caveat to people wanting to improve their handling, just to make sure you know what you're getting into. It took those coilovers and tires to get my car to this point, and now the ride is fairly rough and there isn't a hell of a lot farther to go without gutting the interior. I could get chassis stiffening and perhaps a rear sway bar, but the point is that it's been $1.5k so far (including wheels), and spending a lot less than that on a Golf, Integra, S40, or Mini -- i.e. basically just slapping on some good springs and decent tires -- would easily bring it to the same level, and probably even faster in super-twisty situations. It'd also ride better, and there would still be a ton of headroom to improve the handling further. One of those cars with coilovers and good summer tires would kill my Max in the corners.

The point is, it's all relative. Yeah, you can make your Max handle well, but don't expect to kill tuned Miatas or anything. The suspension's design is good for steady-state and increasing-radius turns, and it's not very good for super-twisty stuff. The Maxima's strength is in its balance, stability, and controllability at the limit (if you set it up right). It's relatively light for its size, but in the end you're still stuck with a long wheelbase, big front and rear overhangs, a solid rear axle, and horribly uncommunicative steering -- again, good for stability, not so good for tossability. If you're a smooth driver and want good lateral grip in high-speed corners, then you can easily get that from a Max. It's long and wide, and can accommodate some decently wide tires. If you're looking for something to autocross, or want to show up your friend with the suspension-tuned Honda on some twisty backroads, you may want to look elsewhere.

The point is that if you're trying to get more handling out of your Max, just make sure you know you'll never corner as hard as that punk in the Corrado (You'll just have to close the gap on the highway ).

Just my $0.02 on suspension upgrades.

BEJAY1

iTrader: (19)

Well summarized. You nailed it's shortcomings pefectly (in addition to FWD). But that's why it's such a challenge and fun trying to make it into something it's not. Same goes for those pushing the envelope into the 11-13's at the dragstrip; again making it into something it wasn't intended to be.

maximamaybe74

Ive driven many maximas with all types of suspension setups from the konis, to the illuminas with rsb, fstb and still they dont compare to the JIC magics, My max sits as low as it can and still rides like a luxury car over bumps, but when i get into the twistes the jics have the best rebound by far from what i have driven.

d00df00d

iTrader: (4)

What luxury cars have you been driving...

BlueC

iTrader: (5)

What's the only thing keeping you on the road?

Your tires.... After I went from stock all-season 215s on my stock 16x6.5 wheels to a soft compound 235mm tire on 17x8 wheels ive noticed a HUGE difference in handling. I can take corners much harder without any squeel and it feels better around corners because its more flat. Invest in some wide wheels and sticky tires and you will handle corners much better, and get more traction when accelerating. I cant really get my front tires to break loose now.

mad-max98

iTrader: (2)

you mean understeer right??

browne

i got fstb, eibach pro, gr-2 and 17x7 rims on falkens and the handling is pretty mediocre compared to honda's or acura with the same set up. the body roll still feels unsafe for street racing and making quick lane changes.

Nissan 6

My falkens are up to the task but the car isnt because I think my struts are blown

d00df00d

iTrader: (4)

Hehehe, I wrote that badly. Let me see if I can lay it out in a more understandable way.

Yes, the Max tends to understeer a lot when you approach its limits. This is just because of how it's designed. A rear sway bar will help fix that. You'll corner quicker, flatter, and more stably.

The problem is, even though the Max understeers near its limits, if you exceed the limits, sometimes it just flips out and kicks the rear end out without warning. That's snap oversteer. You have to be doing some really stupid stuff in your car to get it, but it can happen.

It happens worse with a sway bar. A sway bar will reduce understeer and make your car corner and respond better, but once you hit the limits, your car will spin out more easily.

Is that better?

Maximus_95

iTrader: (8)

I love it, it handles good enough for me to enjoy my car. tein coilovers, The best mod yet, and then it comes my BBK's.

ThisMaxIsTight

iTrader: (23)

^^^^^ YUP!...I got the tein basics...its all aligned properly and handles/corners great.....its really amazing to have complete control at 85+mph ... I have pretty good tires, but i think need something better....I bought those kumhos from tirerack.com, they are radials and V rated, but the tread is wearing quickly and seems to handle just decent....I think with some t1s's my car will handle insane