View Poll Results: VB Mod or TS ECU?
Valvebody Mod
7
28.00%
Technosquare ECU
18
72.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll
VB Mod or TS ECU
06-21-2005, 11:57 PM
#12
I don't have the ECU, so I can only speak about the Valvebody Mod. I got the stage 2 VB from Maximum Tuning on Long Island. You are in NY, so you are lucky. You can buy it and they will install it for no charge if you drop by their shop.
PROS: Quick, hard shifts. You will still have the delay when you slam the gas and the tranny is deciding what to do. That has to do with the tranny deciding when to shift. HOWEVER, when it does decide to shift it will be instantaneous. Taking off from a stop light, it makes the car feel MUCH sportier and faster. Like a manual rowing quickly through the gears. Supposedly it increases tranny life because you get no slipping between gears, but this is hard to confirm. My tranny was rock solid after 120,000 miles when I got the VB. I'm now at about 130,000 and it's still rock solid. According to the guys at Maximum Tuning, who have been doing this for years, you don't need the extra tranny cooler. I trust them and I believe them. If you still want the extra tranny cooler you can get one, but I'm quite certain it won't make a difference.
Just to give you an idea of what it's like: with the VB mod I was able to easily chirp tires from 1st to 2nd gear and from 2nd to 3rd gear just by slamming the gas peddle. That could NEVER happen on a normal auto. Especially not the 2-3 shift. Recently, with my new, stickier rubber, it's much harder to chirp them (which is good = more traction) but accelerating is still much more exhilerating than on the stock tranny setup.
CONS: The price for this quick, hard shifting is rough shifting at all times. This is fine (and fun!) when you are zipping around and accelerating hard, but its ANNOYING when you are driving slowly and casually. Also, when you have passengers and a hard shift comes they will think that your tranny is doing strange things - making your car seem like it's in need of repair.
MAIN POINT: If you value speed over all else, get the VB mod. Your car will feel faster and actually be slightly quicker due to the faster shifts. However, if you value a smooth ride and semi-luxury feel, stay far-far away.
Really, if you have your car pimped out for a nice ride with stereo, TV screens, plush interior, etc and like to shuttle people around in comfort then you DON'T WANT the jerky shifting of the VB mod.
If you are like me and care mostly about speed and not very much about ride quality and comfort, then you will probably be very pleased with it.
PROS: Quick, hard shifts. You will still have the delay when you slam the gas and the tranny is deciding what to do. That has to do with the tranny deciding when to shift. HOWEVER, when it does decide to shift it will be instantaneous. Taking off from a stop light, it makes the car feel MUCH sportier and faster. Like a manual rowing quickly through the gears. Supposedly it increases tranny life because you get no slipping between gears, but this is hard to confirm. My tranny was rock solid after 120,000 miles when I got the VB. I'm now at about 130,000 and it's still rock solid. According to the guys at Maximum Tuning, who have been doing this for years, you don't need the extra tranny cooler. I trust them and I believe them. If you still want the extra tranny cooler you can get one, but I'm quite certain it won't make a difference.
Just to give you an idea of what it's like: with the VB mod I was able to easily chirp tires from 1st to 2nd gear and from 2nd to 3rd gear just by slamming the gas peddle. That could NEVER happen on a normal auto. Especially not the 2-3 shift. Recently, with my new, stickier rubber, it's much harder to chirp them (which is good = more traction) but accelerating is still much more exhilerating than on the stock tranny setup.
CONS: The price for this quick, hard shifting is rough shifting at all times. This is fine (and fun!) when you are zipping around and accelerating hard, but its ANNOYING when you are driving slowly and casually. Also, when you have passengers and a hard shift comes they will think that your tranny is doing strange things - making your car seem like it's in need of repair.
MAIN POINT: If you value speed over all else, get the VB mod. Your car will feel faster and actually be slightly quicker due to the faster shifts. However, if you value a smooth ride and semi-luxury feel, stay far-far away.
Really, if you have your car pimped out for a nice ride with stereo, TV screens, plush interior, etc and like to shuttle people around in comfort then you DON'T WANT the jerky shifting of the VB mod.
If you are like me and care mostly about speed and not very much about ride quality and comfort, then you will probably be very pleased with it.
06-22-2005, 01:43 AM
#13
Originally Posted by TrackSmart
IMAIN POINT: If you value speed over all else, get the VB mod. Your car will feel faster and actually be slightly quicker due to the faster shifts.
If you have never experienced an aftermarket ECU, how can you tell someone to get the VB mod if they want speed? The VB mod does absolutely nothing in increasing engine power. The ECU does. I've driven Maximas with VB mods and I have the ECU and there is no way a car with a VB mod and no ECU is keeping up with me. No way!
06-22-2005, 03:32 AM
#14
Originally Posted by deezo
Now tell me this:
If you have never experienced an aftermarket ECU, how can you tell someone to get the VB mod if they want speed? The VB mod does absolutely nothing in increasing engine power. The ECU does. I've driven Maximas with VB mods and I have the ECU and there is no way a car with a VB mod and no ECU is keeping up with me. No way!
If you have never experienced an aftermarket ECU, how can you tell someone to get the VB mod if they want speed? The VB mod does absolutely nothing in increasing engine power. The ECU does. I've driven Maximas with VB mods and I have the ECU and there is no way a car with a VB mod and no ECU is keeping up with me. No way!
Actually I believe the VB and DR mods are more of a save-your-tranny mod than a performance mod. At least thats why I do it, if there are any gains they are very minimal in comparison to the measure of safety you receive.
The best part about the DR mod over the VB mod is that you don't have to put up with the rough shifting at part throttle like TrackSmart alluded to.
06-22-2005, 04:31 AM
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 162
Thanks for the thorough review TrackSmart. I haven't read any personal experiences with this mod, and I was considering having it installed. I'd guess if you went with the ECU & VB mod, that the shifts would be even 'sharper' or 'rougher' - depending on your point of view - because of the extra power transfer when shifting through gears?
06-22-2005, 07:37 AM
#16
From what I have read about the DR mod on tuning sites, it essentially duplicates what happens at WOT; i.e., bump the tranny line pressure up to its maximum. If that is the case -- and I do believe it is-- then you will not get any speed increase above and beyond what you would get when you floor it.
BTW, both the VB mod and the DR mod increase tranny temperatures over those when running stock. Since overheating is not a good thing for trannies, if I was getting the mod, I'd be concerned about the extra heat.
BTW, both the VB mod and the DR mod increase tranny temperatures over those when running stock. Since overheating is not a good thing for trannies, if I was getting the mod, I'd be concerned about the extra heat.
06-22-2005, 08:23 AM
#17
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 836
If I could do it over again, I would get the ECU first and then the VB mod. I have had both, and did the vb first. Yeah it's cool that it shifts a bit sportier, but it does pale in comparision to that bit of extra power that the ECU gives. I suppose if you plan on getting both in the long run, it doesn't really matter too much which one you get first, as long as you get BOTH. Won't regret it.
06-22-2005, 09:07 AM
#18
VB mod, from what I have read is only beneficial for high HP Maximas (read: boosted). You need to be putting down a serious amount of power before transmission shift times affect your ET. Ask Jime; he's running 100+ shots of nitrous and has proven the DR mod is effective at that power level.
06-22-2005, 09:37 AM
#19
Originally Posted by deezo
Now tell me this:
If you have never experienced an aftermarket ECU, how can you tell someone to get the VB mod if they want speed? The VB mod does absolutely nothing in increasing engine power. The ECU does. I've driven Maximas with VB mods and I have the ECU and there is no way a car with a VB mod and no ECU is keeping up with me. No way!
If you have never experienced an aftermarket ECU, how can you tell someone to get the VB mod if they want speed? The VB mod does absolutely nothing in increasing engine power. The ECU does. I've driven Maximas with VB mods and I have the ECU and there is no way a car with a VB mod and no ECU is keeping up with me. No way!
I clearly stated in my review that I have never had the ECU so I was NOT going to offer advice on which one to get! I clearly stated that I was only giving a review of the Valvebody mod to give advice on whether someone should get it or not ON ITS OWN.
You misread and misinterpreted {and I forgive you
}. I was saying that if you value speed above ride quality, then the VB mod won't disappoint. But if you value ride quality, you will NOT like the VB mod. I said NOTHING about the ECU.Secondly, all of the fastest Auto maxima's have the VB mod and know that while it's not going to drop your 0-60 times by half-a-second it does make a huge difference. The stock auto-tranny is VERY SLOW shifting to give that silky smooth ride Nissan was going for. That's one of the reasons (not the only one!) that the auto has such poor 0-60 times compared to the manual.
IF I HAD TO TAKE ONLY ONE ON OF THESE ON AN AUTO MAXIMA - either Y-pipe or Valvebody Mod - I would take the VB mod anyday. The performance improvement from the VB was much more dramatic than changing my entire exhaust.
*** That's my personal opinion *** Take it or leave it. ***
I think this is one of the biggest bang-for-your-buck-mods for an AUTO maxima. Cost was $350 installed for me at Maximum Tuning.
HOWEVER, I cannot recommend the VB mod whole-heartedly because it also greatly deteriorates ride quality. Ride quality IS important for most people.
I hope this clarifies! Great debate guys!
06-22-2005, 09:43 AM
#20
More Information About the VB:
More Information About the VB
I was answering someone's PM and thought this info would also be relevant here. Cut and Pasted:
I got my VB from Maximum Tuning on Long Island, NY. At the time I bought it there was a Group Deal for $350 and they said they would install it if you came to the shop. Basically they take your old VB and replace it with one that has been upgraded with a shift kit. Then your old VB becomes the donor for the next guy that comes.
I think the regular price is $400 and I'm pretty sure they will install it at no extra charge. Ask them to make sure! It's about a 2 hour install. I'm guessing that will cost you at least $200 from a regular mechanic. Maybe more because it's an unusual thing to do.
MobilTek (another company) also does the VB modification for Nissan Maximas. With them, they ship you a new VB and you ship them your old one. Their work is as good as Maximum Tuning's from the research that I've done. They have a PDF file with directions for the swap on their website. You should look them over and see if you feel comfortable doing this yourself.
Last thing: At maximum tuning their are three "stages" of VB modification that you can get. 1) Stock upgrade 2) Street 3) Race.
I recommend the "Stage 2" or "Street" option. This will give you VERY HARD 1-2 shifts and very fast 2-3 shifts. I can't imagine what the race version would do. It might be not be fun anymore if its that jarring. But it's your choice. I think "stage 2" will give you 85% of the performance and a more tolerable ride. The "race" option is really rough from what I've heard from others. I'm not sure if the extra 15% is worth it. Might not be fun to drive...
LASTLY: If you've always wanted to do the auto to manual transmissions swap [and don't have the know-how] , Maximum Tuning will do it for you. If you bring the parts (get donor parts from salvage yard) they charge $900 for the labor. That's a heck of a deal when you consider the work involved.
Good Luck! Let me know what happens!
{I'm going to post this email in the forum because I KNOW others will be asking the exact same questions}
I was answering someone's PM and thought this info would also be relevant here. Cut and Pasted:
I got my VB from Maximum Tuning on Long Island, NY. At the time I bought it there was a Group Deal for $350 and they said they would install it if you came to the shop. Basically they take your old VB and replace it with one that has been upgraded with a shift kit. Then your old VB becomes the donor for the next guy that comes.
I think the regular price is $400 and I'm pretty sure they will install it at no extra charge. Ask them to make sure! It's about a 2 hour install. I'm guessing that will cost you at least $200 from a regular mechanic. Maybe more because it's an unusual thing to do.
MobilTek (another company) also does the VB modification for Nissan Maximas. With them, they ship you a new VB and you ship them your old one. Their work is as good as Maximum Tuning's from the research that I've done. They have a PDF file with directions for the swap on their website. You should look them over and see if you feel comfortable doing this yourself.
Last thing: At maximum tuning their are three "stages" of VB modification that you can get. 1) Stock upgrade 2) Street 3) Race.
I recommend the "Stage 2" or "Street" option. This will give you VERY HARD 1-2 shifts and very fast 2-3 shifts. I can't imagine what the race version would do. It might be not be fun anymore if its that jarring. But it's your choice. I think "stage 2" will give you 85% of the performance and a more tolerable ride. The "race" option is really rough from what I've heard from others. I'm not sure if the extra 15% is worth it. Might not be fun to drive...
LASTLY: If you've always wanted to do the auto to manual transmissions swap [and don't have the know-how] , Maximum Tuning will do it for you. If you bring the parts (get donor parts from salvage yard) they charge $900 for the labor. That's a heck of a deal when you consider the work involved.
Good Luck! Let me know what happens!
{I'm going to post this email in the forum because I KNOW others will be asking the exact same questions}
06-22-2005, 11:13 AM
#23
Originally Posted by TrackSmart
I clearly stated in my review that I have never had the ECU so I was NOT going to offer advice on which one to get! I clearly stated that I was only giving a review of the Valvebody mod to give advice on whether someone should get it or not ON ITS OWN.
You misread and misinterpreted {and I forgive you }. I was saying that if you value speed above ride quality, then the VB mod won't disappoint. But if you value ride quality, you will NOT like the VB mod. I said NOTHING about the ECU..
}. I was saying that if you value speed above ride quality, then the VB mod won't disappoint. But if you value ride quality, you will NOT like the VB mod. I said NOTHING about the ECU..
Secondly, all of the fastest Auto maxima's have the VB mod
and know that while it's not going to drop your 0-60 times by half-a-second it does make a huge difference. The stock auto-tranny is VERY SLOW shifting to give that silky smooth ride Nissan was going for. That's one of the reasons (not the only one!) that the auto has such poor 0-60 times compared to the manual.
IF I HAD TO TAKE ONLY ONE ON OF THESE ON AN AUTO MAXIMA - either Y-pipe or Valvebody Mod - I would take the VB mod anyday. The performance improvement from the VB was much more dramatic than changing my entire exhaust.
*** That's my personal opinion *** Take it or leave it. ***
this is one of the biggest bang-for-your-buck-mods for an AUTO maxima. Cost was $350 installed for me at Maximum Tuning.
HOWEVER, I cannot recommend the VB mod whole-heartedly because it also greatly deteriorates ride quality. Ride quality IS important for most people.
I hope this clarifies! Great debate guys!
I hope this clarifies! Great debate guys!
06-22-2005, 11:31 AM
#24
I won't argue. Ha Ha... I like you man. You say what you mean. I do too.
I gave my opinion on the VB mod. I don't pretend that I am the world's foremost expert on anything. I'm okay if you disagree. I think people value first-hand experience with a mod and like to hear about it.
Please understand that I have been getting private messages asking about the VB mod (from people reading this thread). That's why I posted all of the info. I was not aiming the info at you. Other people have asked for my opinion. It's easier to post it publicly than to write lots of private messages.
As for y-pipe vs VB. Well, I have most of my driving fun in between zero and eighty. VB makes it fun to get there. A real kick-in-the pants that you can feel. Especially between 1st and 2nd gears. Y-pipe wasn't very dramatic for everyday driving. Some extra HP, which is fantastic and worth every penny. But not the same thrill as the VB's fast shifts.
And you are right. I do like to type a lot! Peace man.
I gave my opinion on the VB mod. I don't pretend that I am the world's foremost expert on anything. I'm okay if you disagree. I think people value first-hand experience with a mod and like to hear about it.
Please understand that I have been getting private messages asking about the VB mod (from people reading this thread). That's why I posted all of the info. I was not aiming the info at you. Other people have asked for my opinion. It's easier to post it publicly than to write lots of private messages.
As for y-pipe vs VB. Well, I have most of my driving fun in between zero and eighty. VB makes it fun to get there. A real kick-in-the pants that you can feel. Especially between 1st and 2nd gears. Y-pipe wasn't very dramatic for everyday driving. Some extra HP, which is fantastic and worth every penny. But not the same thrill as the VB's fast shifts.
And you are right. I do like to type a lot! Peace man.
06-22-2005, 11:33 AM
#25
Ouch ... so true though ...
I have the VB mod in my 03 only because the tranny was slipping pretty bad and needed the VB replaced.. SO I went and got a Stage II.5. Personally, if nothing is wrong with your transmission, I would get the ECU, it will put a smile on your face everytime you step on it, instead of only when shifting...
Besides the Maxima only shifts twice in the 1/4 mile as well as during spirited legal driving, under normal circumstances, and normal tires being used of course.
Whereas the ECU can be felt any speed, any gear any time.
I have the VB mod in my 03 only because the tranny was slipping pretty bad and needed the VB replaced.. SO I went and got a Stage II.5. Personally, if nothing is wrong with your transmission, I would get the ECU, it will put a smile on your face everytime you step on it, instead of only when shifting...
Besides the Maxima only shifts twice in the 1/4 mile as well as during spirited legal driving, under normal circumstances, and normal tires being used of course.
Whereas the ECU can be felt any speed, any gear any time.
06-22-2005, 11:48 AM
#26
Originally Posted by NmexMAX
Besides the Maxima only shifts twice in the 1/4 mile as well as during spirited legal driving, under normal circumstances, and normal tires being used of course.
Whereas the ECU can be felt any speed, any gear any time.
Whereas the ECU can be felt any speed, any gear any time.
Good point. I'd like to get an ECU as well. Is there a reason for getting the TS ECU versus the JWT ECU? I am not well versed in the differences. A higher rev-limit would be great as would better air-fuel ratio.
06-22-2005, 11:56 AM
#27
Originally Posted by TrackSmart
Good point. I'd like to get an ECU as well. Is there a reason for getting the TS ECU versus the JWT ECU? I am not well versed in the differences.
06-22-2005, 12:00 PM
#28
I will say that the VB is a good addition aside the ECU.
If you have a VI, get the extended rev limiter to access the HP over 6500 rpm. TS has better customer server than JWT but most people go with JWT because they are experienced with different tunes and TS isn't. TS hasn't figured out how to crack the rev limiter on all ECU's and it doesn't seem to be a priority just yet.
If you have a VI, get the extended rev limiter to access the HP over 6500 rpm. TS has better customer server than JWT but most people go with JWT because they are experienced with different tunes and TS isn't. TS hasn't figured out how to crack the rev limiter on all ECU's and it doesn't seem to be a priority just yet.
06-22-2005, 12:08 PM
#29
Originally Posted by deezo
Wrong, Wrong, Wrong!!!!!!! Jime just said that he doesn't have the VB mod. He has the DR setup (well that was on the 4th gen, not sure about the 5th Gen). Plus, you talk like there is a ton of drop dead fast autos when there aren't.
I think I still have the fastest N/A Auto as well as the fastest auto period.
06-22-2005, 12:09 PM
#30
Originally Posted by deezo
I will say that the VB is a good addition aside the ECU.
If you have a VI, get the extended rev limiter to access the HP over 6500 rpm. TS has better customer server than JWT but most people go with JWT because they are experienced with different tunes and TS isn't. TS hasn't figured out how to crack the rev limiter on all ECU's and it doesn't seem to be a priority just yet.
If you have a VI, get the extended rev limiter to access the HP over 6500 rpm. TS has better customer server than JWT but most people go with JWT because they are experienced with different tunes and TS isn't. TS hasn't figured out how to crack the rev limiter on all ECU's and it doesn't seem to be a priority just yet.
Thanks for the info Deezo. Looks like he has a 95/96 like I do. If I remember correctly, these are the years that JWT can modify correctly?
Maybe you can answer one more for me. If I got the ECU but I did not have the VI on my car, would it still pay to raise the rev limiter as high? What RPM would you set the limiter at?
06-22-2005, 12:13 PM
#31
Originally Posted by Jime
5th Gen has the DR Mod as well, free is good.
I think I still have the fastest N/A Auto as well as the fastest auto period.
I think I still have the fastest N/A Auto as well as the fastest auto period.
06-22-2005, 12:15 PM
#32
Originally Posted by TrackSmart
Thanks for the info Deezo. Looks like he has a 95/96 like I do. If I remember correctly, these are the years that JWT can modify correctly?
Yes 95 and 96 are safe and available candidates for the mod. The JWT ECU comes with a 7000 limit, whether you request it or not. I went 7200 for ***** and giggles. It wouldn't pay any good if you don't have the VI though.
06-22-2005, 12:18 PM
#33
Originally Posted by TrackSmart
Thanks for the info Deezo. Looks like he has a 95/96 like I do. If I remember correctly, these are the years that JWT can modify correctly?
Maybe you can answer one more for me. If I got the ECU but I did not have the VI on my car, would it still pay to raise the rev limiter as high? What RPM would you set the limiter at?
Maybe you can answer one more for me. If I got the ECU but I did not have the VI on my car, would it still pay to raise the rev limiter as high? What RPM would you set the limiter at?
95 and 96 ECU's are the only ones that can be upgraded. I'm running a 96 auto ECU in my 97 auto.
I had mine set to 7100rpm.
them
06-22-2005, 02:47 PM
#40
so from waht i understand from reading the technosqure website is that they just tweak your current ecu?
i couldnt understand if it was using a whole new ecu or just changing your current one. and what are the pros and cons of a raised rev limiter.
i couldnt understand if it was using a whole new ecu or just changing your current one. and what are the pros and cons of a raised rev limiter.