Very stupid question but I must ask...
07-26-2005, 05:23 PM
#1
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Very stupid question but I must ask...
My 97 Max is great. Has almost 200,000km (~124,300miles) and it runs smooth. But, my 0-60 time is soringly lacking. It takes 10 seconds to reach 60mph (it's an auto). Everything is stock but I do use K&N filter.
I was wondering whether or not it's because I use 87 octane gas instead of the recommended 91?
I was wondering whether or not it's because I use 87 octane gas instead of the recommended 91?
07-26-2005, 05:25 PM
#3
Originally Posted by PoKKi
My 97 Max is great. Has almost 200,000km (~124,300miles) and it runs smooth. But, my 0-60 time is soringly lacking. It takes 10 seconds to reach 60mph (it's an auto). Everything is stock but I do use K&N filter.
I was wondering whether or not it's because I use 87 octane gas instead of the recommended 91?
I was wondering whether or not it's because I use 87 octane gas instead of the recommended 91?
07-26-2005, 05:29 PM
#5
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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Well....since the MANUFACTURERS RECOMMENDED OCTANE LEVEL IN GASOLINE IS 90+ , youre engine is misfiring on 87 Octane. The VQ is not made for that type of gas, therefore, it will retard engine timing to curb engine knock, and curb therefore your 0-60 acceleration.
Next fill -up, put fuel-injector cleaner and Premium fuel(I know, its expensive) and buckle up.....
Next fill -up, put fuel-injector cleaner and Premium fuel(I know, its expensive) and buckle up.....
07-26-2005, 05:41 PM
#6
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It literally takes 10 seconds...I used a stopwatch to time it...Gave or take a second thats still bad.
07-26-2005, 05:50 PM
#7
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Originally Posted by PoKKi
It literally takes 10 seconds...I used a stopwatch to time it...Gave or take a second thats still bad.
07-26-2005, 06:24 PM
#9
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 888
u dont even need to read the FAQ's.
it says it everytime u put gas on the gas door, and in the manuals..
premium gas... over 91 at the very least. ur car may need a new KS or i d k if u kept doing 89 for that long something has got to have gone bad.
it says it everytime u put gas on the gas door, and in the manuals..
premium gas... over 91 at the very least. ur car may need a new KS or i d k if u kept doing 89 for that long something has got to have gone bad.
07-26-2005, 06:31 PM
#11
Originally Posted by ArcticW
Well....since the MANUFACTURERS RECOMMENDED OCTANE LEVEL IN GASOLINE IS 90+ , youre engine is misfiring on 87 Octane. The VQ is not made for that type of gas, therefore, it will retard engine timing to curb engine knock, and curb therefore your 0-60 acceleration.
Next fill -up, put fuel-injector cleaner and Premium fuel(I know, its expensive) and buckle up.....
Next fill -up, put fuel-injector cleaner and Premium fuel(I know, its expensive) and buckle up.....
close and this is a common mistake, but its not misfirding, it is detonation, or knocking
07-26-2005, 07:09 PM
#12
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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Well I bought the car in December and got a new KS so I'm ok. But should I use a FI cleaner before I put in some premium? If so, which brand?
07-26-2005, 07:17 PM
#13
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Join Date: Nov 2000
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Originally Posted by kcryan
close and this is a common mistake, but its not misfirding, it is detonation, or knocking
Higher octane fuel can be compressed further before spontaneous combustion. Long-story short is that the compression ratio of the motor determines what octane is necessary, and what power output there will be. Increasing the octane does not add HP in itself. The motor was designed to put out what it may. Higher octane fuel than what the motor was designed for simply gets burned out the tailpipe. Placebo that appears on your credit card.
MYTH: higher mpgs and higher power attributible to the fuel itself.
07-26-2005, 07:40 PM
#14
Originally Posted by Frank Fontaine
You're dead on. Don't you wish we could have $5 every time someone on this forum claimed octane is about power, when in reality it prevents predetonation?
Higher octane fuel can be compressed further before spontaneous combustion. Long-story short is that the compression ratio of the motor determines what octane is necessary, and what power output there will be. Increasing the octane does not add HP in itself. The motor was designed to put out what it may. Higher octane fuel than what the motor was designed for simply gets burned out the tailpipe. Placebo that appears on your credit card.
MYTH: higher mpgs and higher power attributible to the fuel itself.
Higher octane fuel can be compressed further before spontaneous combustion. Long-story short is that the compression ratio of the motor determines what octane is necessary, and what power output there will be. Increasing the octane does not add HP in itself. The motor was designed to put out what it may. Higher octane fuel than what the motor was designed for simply gets burned out the tailpipe. Placebo that appears on your credit card.
MYTH: higher mpgs and higher power attributible to the fuel itself.
So what if increased octane does not add HP in itself. It is still required for full power.
- Also, do not expect to feel a difference the first time you fill up with 91 octane gas. The ECU might take a while to advance the timing back. Could be hundreds of miles before it advances as much as its going to..
07-26-2005, 08:05 PM
#16
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 7
wow, so much of this goes over my head. Im nothing of a car buff at all, but im scared to ask questions because so many people flame you on these forums... lol...
But I will ask them anyways--
1. What is seafoam?
2. Will i really get the same MPG with 87 oct and 93 oct?
3. Will I see any increase in hp with 93 oct gas? (if i use it for "hundreds of miles" so the timing goes back to how it was)
4. What brand FI cleaner should i buy?
5. What exactly is a "KS"
Thanks in advance----unless you are going to flame me--then to hell with you =)...
--Ron
But I will ask them anyways--
1. What is seafoam?
2. Will i really get the same MPG with 87 oct and 93 oct?
3. Will I see any increase in hp with 93 oct gas? (if i use it for "hundreds of miles" so the timing goes back to how it was)
4. What brand FI cleaner should i buy?
5. What exactly is a "KS"
Thanks in advance----unless you are going to flame me--then to hell with you =)...
--Ron
07-26-2005, 08:05 PM
#17
Originally Posted by Spaniard
What are you trying to say...?
So what if increased octane does not add HP in itself. It is still required for full power.
- Also, do not expect to feel a difference the first time you fill up with 91 octane gas. The ECU might take a while to advance the timing back. Could be hundreds of miles before it advances as much as its going to..
So what if increased octane does not add HP in itself. It is still required for full power.
- Also, do not expect to feel a difference the first time you fill up with 91 octane gas. The ECU might take a while to advance the timing back. Could be hundreds of miles before it advances as much as its going to..
actually, the ecu automaticly advances the timing until the reading from the knock sensor is increased. it advances the timing until it knocks and then it retards it back.
07-26-2005, 08:06 PM
#18
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 888
i dotn really like fuel injector cleaners ime and in my friends that has used it, it actually made the car run more crap.. but i would just put the right octane agane. maybe change the plugs while ur at it.
07-26-2005, 08:21 PM
#19
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Posts: 138
Well I had my TB cleaned in May already, so i should be ok. I did just put in a bottle of Quakerstate FI Cleaner into my current 87 octane tank.
07-26-2005, 08:23 PM
#20
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 163
As Frank said, higher octane fuel isn't as flammable as lower octane fuel. That's why it is less likely to give you spark knock. A KS is a knock sensor. If the car has to adjust the timing, the spark will not come at the best possible time, and, yes, it could cause a loss of power to some degree and slower times.
07-26-2005, 09:08 PM
#21
Time out, guys. Some pretty crazy stuff being said here.
More octane means it's harder to burn, but when it does burn, it releases more energy. That's why you advance the timing with high octane gas -- you ignite the spark sooner in the piston cycle in order to burn more gas. This quite literally has to mean more power and better mileage. It's physically impossible for it not to -- you're burning more fuel and releasing more energy.
If knocking is the only problem with 87 octane gas, and if the ECU can compensate for that with no performance penalty, why would Nissan ever insist on 91+ octane?
More octane means it's harder to burn, but when it does burn, it releases more energy. That's why you advance the timing with high octane gas -- you ignite the spark sooner in the piston cycle in order to burn more gas. This quite literally has to mean more power and better mileage. It's physically impossible for it not to -- you're burning more fuel and releasing more energy.
If knocking is the only problem with 87 octane gas, and if the ECU can compensate for that with no performance penalty, why would Nissan ever insist on 91+ octane?
07-26-2005, 09:17 PM
#22
Originally Posted by PoKKi
It literally takes 10 seconds...I used a stopwatch to time it...Gave or take a second thats still bad.
And my car was running perfect at the time, seafoam, tb cleaned, knock sensor fine, aftermarket ypipe yada yada.
But check your codes, knock sensor maybe the problem high mileage maximas have this problem, 91 octane immediately. While I am not sure if there is a significant gain in power, but I belive its enough to make you pay the extra. I raced my buddy who has a ypipe, intake, auto max, I believe he puts 87 in, I always have 93 in and by about 50 I would start putting about a half a car to a car on him, same mods.
07-26-2005, 09:37 PM
#23
- check your spark plugs
- clean your throttle body
- Techron FI cleaner every 6 months
- when the gas gets to about half, fill up with some good 94+ premium
87 gas really kills performance. I lent my car to my dad once and he filled it up with 87.
I could tell something was wrong the next day as soon as I got on the highway.
- clean your throttle body
- Techron FI cleaner every 6 months
- when the gas gets to about half, fill up with some good 94+ premium
87 gas really kills performance. I lent my car to my dad once and he filled it up with 87.
I could tell something was wrong the next day as soon as I got on the highway.
07-26-2005, 09:46 PM
#24
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 209
To make it short and sweet:
Basically with 91+ octane there is more power per gram/mL of fuel as compared to one gram/mL of 87 octane. Another thing is, someone already mentioned properly, that it takes more energy to ignite the higher octane but does not necessarily release more energy(although in most cases it does) but does not ignite until the piston is very high and close to the spark plug so you get a more efficient stroke from the piston into the cam. This is why you get better performance and gas mileage.
To get INCREDIBLY high octane fuel (110 octane DANGEROUS!) go to a relatively small airport and they sell it there. Propeller airplanes use 110 octane fuel while jet engines use a 105 octane mixed with some special jet fuel. I live in the Los Angeles area and my cousin goes to Burbank Airport to fill up if he's gonna race at Irwindale or something. On 91 octane he gets 400hp give or take but with the 110 octane he's pushing 780-850hp.
Basically with 91+ octane there is more power per gram/mL of fuel as compared to one gram/mL of 87 octane. Another thing is, someone already mentioned properly, that it takes more energy to ignite the higher octane but does not necessarily release more energy(although in most cases it does) but does not ignite until the piston is very high and close to the spark plug so you get a more efficient stroke from the piston into the cam. This is why you get better performance and gas mileage.
To get INCREDIBLY high octane fuel (110 octane DANGEROUS!) go to a relatively small airport and they sell it there. Propeller airplanes use 110 octane fuel while jet engines use a 105 octane mixed with some special jet fuel. I live in the Los Angeles area and my cousin goes to Burbank Airport to fill up if he's gonna race at Irwindale or something. On 91 octane he gets 400hp give or take but with the 110 octane he's pushing 780-850hp.
07-27-2005, 06:45 AM
#25
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Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 464
Originally Posted by MechAnt
To make it short and sweet:
Basically with 91+ octane there is more power per gram/mL of fuel as compared to one gram/mL of 87 octane. Another thing is, someone already mentioned properly, that it takes more energy to ignite the higher octane but does not necessarily release more energy(although in most cases it does) but does not ignite until the piston is very high and close to the spark plug so you get a more efficient stroke from the piston into the cam. This is why you get better performance and gas mileage.
To get INCREDIBLY high octane fuel (110 octane DANGEROUS!) go to a relatively small airport and they sell it there. Propeller airplanes use 110 octane fuel while jet engines use a 105 octane mixed with some special jet fuel. I live in the Los Angeles area and my cousin goes to Burbank Airport to fill up if he's gonna race at Irwindale or something. On 91 octane he gets 400hp give or take but with the 110 octane he's pushing 780-850hp.
Basically with 91+ octane there is more power per gram/mL of fuel as compared to one gram/mL of 87 octane. Another thing is, someone already mentioned properly, that it takes more energy to ignite the higher octane but does not necessarily release more energy(although in most cases it does) but does not ignite until the piston is very high and close to the spark plug so you get a more efficient stroke from the piston into the cam. This is why you get better performance and gas mileage.
To get INCREDIBLY high octane fuel (110 octane DANGEROUS!) go to a relatively small airport and they sell it there. Propeller airplanes use 110 octane fuel while jet engines use a 105 octane mixed with some special jet fuel. I live in the Los Angeles area and my cousin goes to Burbank Airport to fill up if he's gonna race at Irwindale or something. On 91 octane he gets 400hp give or take but with the 110 octane he's pushing 780-850hp.
07-27-2005, 07:06 AM
#26
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 138
And you're telling me 110 octane fuel didn't burn through the pistons?!?!!
07-27-2005, 07:21 AM
#27
Maybe his power depends on extremely high compression?
Even so, you're right... double the hp from gas alone seems sketchy. Maybe MechAnt neglected to mention some details, like if his friend could use nitrous with 110 octane but not 91, or if he dials back the boost on 91 octane.
Even so, you're right... double the hp from gas alone seems sketchy. Maybe MechAnt neglected to mention some details, like if his friend could use nitrous with 110 octane but not 91, or if he dials back the boost on 91 octane.
07-27-2005, 02:06 PM
#28
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 209
Guys, thanks for calling the BS thing. It IS with nitrous and a full boost of around 30 psi, direct port something like 75-100 shots. Without the nitrous and not on full boost(20-25 give or take) with the 110 octane he is pushing somewhere around 480-500 or SOMETHING. I'll see if i can scan his dyno charts and post em here.
FYI, he drives a Toyota Aristo (aka here in the US as the Lexus GS300) twin turbo.
FYI, he drives a Toyota Aristo (aka here in the US as the Lexus GS300) twin turbo.
07-28-2005, 04:19 AM
#29
YOU MUST FEAR any Lexus with "300" in the model number.
That means a 2JZ-GE engine, which also happened to power the non-turbo Supra (the turbo version was virtually the same).
Let there be no doubt of the power figures now.
That means a 2JZ-GE engine, which also happened to power the non-turbo Supra (the turbo version was virtually the same).
Let there be no doubt of the power figures now.
07-28-2005, 04:31 AM
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 355
The only FI cleaner that I've used that actually works would be GM FI CLeaner its the same as Techron. Its made by GM. We use it at the dealership where i work and it really works...
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