Thoes w/ UDP
11-06-2005, 09:10 AM
#41
Originally Posted by bijangxe
Dude I have dyno charts......before and after - so get your wanabe lecturing outa here. And no, Im not posting them. 
11-06-2005, 09:14 AM
#42
Originally Posted by naplesmaxima
alright all **** aside i personaly dont care what an udp does for anyones car i have a question
whats the major difference from an unorthodox udp and a cheap 60 dollar ebay one?
they appear to be the same shape size and weight.
a friend of mine put an ebay udp on his car and it did nothing
but then again people say the unorthodox one really does something good for you
whats the major difference from an unorthodox udp and a cheap 60 dollar ebay one?
they appear to be the same shape size and weight.
a friend of mine put an ebay udp on his car and it did nothing
but then again people say the unorthodox one really does something good for you
11-06-2005, 09:17 AM
#43
Some have complained of added vibrations due to the aftermarket pulley not being as good at smoothing out the torsional vibaration of the motor. So lemme get this straight, 80 bux, have to buy a new belt, slightly more vibrations, and no gain in the 1/4 mile?? Stock pulley FTW!!!
And to all you ***** that will say that the UDP acts on the same principle as a lightened flywheel, you are right, but for all practical purposes their effects are not nearly the same. A lightened flywheel is so effective simply because of its diameter. If you know basic physics, you'll realize that for a given mass, the larger the diameter of a spinning object, the more inertia it will have. This is why one works, and the other does nothing.
And to all you ***** that will say that the UDP acts on the same principle as a lightened flywheel, you are right, but for all practical purposes their effects are not nearly the same. A lightened flywheel is so effective simply because of its diameter. If you know basic physics, you'll realize that for a given mass, the larger the diameter of a spinning object, the more inertia it will have. This is why one works, and the other does nothing.
11-06-2005, 12:23 PM
#46
Originally Posted by 2 Da Max
That guy DaveH, i believe said that he his times were worst with the udp, and he posted his timeslips with it, and without it
another guy on the org claimed, he nearly damaged his motor and it caused an oil leak, so he changed it back to stock and he was good
i know i dont have one, but i usually do alot of reading on something before i buy it, and if sacrificing my motor for 70 dollars is an option forget about it. if the 2lbs made a difference, why didnt nissan made it lighter in the first place?
another guy on the org claimed, he nearly damaged his motor and it caused an oil leak, so he changed it back to stock and he was good
i know i dont have one, but i usually do alot of reading on something before i buy it, and if sacrificing my motor for 70 dollars is an option forget about it. if the 2lbs made a difference, why didnt nissan made it lighter in the first place?
You could say why didn't Nissan do this and that to almost any mod for the Max, usually there are tradeoffs with every mod such as increased noise, increased emmissions and in the case of the UDP it comes in the form of decreased battery life/lower charge with lower RPM's from the Alternator.
LEMAR
11-06-2005, 12:49 PM
#47
Originally Posted by RastaManMax
UDP makes a small difference in power but there is a difference. The difference is due to it's lighter weight and smaller diameter.
LEMAR
LEMAR
There is no point arguing with nismology.
He refuses to listen to reason and only belives himself to be right.
The UDP is smaller and much lighter then the OEM pulley. How could that not be a gain. The amount of power freed up whether its 1hp or 20hp is still horsepower that before was being used just to turn the heavier pulley. Now it can be applied to turn the wheels.
11-06-2005, 12:56 PM
#48
Originally Posted by RastaManMax
UDP makes a small difference in power but there is a difference. The difference is due to it's lighter weight and smaller diameter.
LEMAR
LEMAR
There is no point arguing with nismology.
He refuses to listen to reason and only belives himself to be right.
The UDP is smaller and much lighter then the OEM pulley. How could that not be a gain. The amount of power freed up whether its 1hp or 20hp is still horsepower that before was being used just to turn the heavier pulley. Now it can be applied to turn the wheels.
He refuses to listen to reason and only belives himself to be right.
The UDP is smaller and much lighter then the OEM pulley. How could that not be a gain. The amount of power freed up whether its 1hp or 20hp is still horsepower that before was being used just to turn the heavier pulley. Now it can be applied to turn the wheels.
Main Entry: neg·li·gi·ble
Pronunciation: 'ne-gli-j&-b&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin neglegere, negligere
: so small or unimportant or of so little consequence as to warrant little or no attention
The theory is sound, yes, but that's about it. Practical gains > theoretical gains.
11-06-2005, 01:38 PM
#50
Originally Posted by bijangxe
Now you say it's not practical...
It's a good mod if you have the money and know how to install it. BIATCH!
BLING BLING!
It's a good mod if you have the money and know how to install it. BIATCH!
BLING BLING!
I'm amazed!! When did i EVER say that it wasn't practical. I didn't say it's not practical since obviously you can use it as a pulley to drive the accessories. It's practical, but the gains from it are negligible (refer to above post for definition). Not that hard to understand. You'd think that some of you guys don't have a high school education from some of your responses...
And i know how to install one thank you very much. I've helped with a few installs. Besides that i've done motor swaps, tranny swaps, clutch jobs, oil pump swaps, water pump, etc. and i still wouldn't put that crap on my car.
Oh yea, the name-calling just adds to your credibility.
11-06-2005, 01:56 PM
#51
Originally Posted by nismology
WTF do you not understand man??!! Seriously WTF? I'm amazed!! When did i EVER say that it wasn't practical. I didn't say it's not practical since obviously you can use it as a pulley to drive the accessories. It's practical, but the gains from it are negligible (refer to above post for definition). Not that hard to understand. You'd think that some of you guys don't have a high school education from some of your responses...
And i know how to install one thank you very much. I've helped with a few installs. Besides that i've done motor swaps, tranny swaps, clutch jobs, oil pump swaps, water pump, etc. and i still wouldn't put that crap on my car.
Oh yea, the name-calling just adds to your credibility.
I'm amazed!! When did i EVER say that it wasn't practical. I didn't say it's not practical since obviously you can use it as a pulley to drive the accessories. It's practical, but the gains from it are negligible (refer to above post for definition). Not that hard to understand. You'd think that some of you guys don't have a high school education from some of your responses...And i know how to install one thank you very much. I've helped with a few installs. Besides that i've done motor swaps, tranny swaps, clutch jobs, oil pump swaps, water pump, etc. and i still wouldn't put that crap on my car.
Oh yea, the name-calling just adds to your credibility.
OMG motor swap! Good for you man....fun stuff huh? I wasnt calling YOU the "b" word...I just say it. But if you feel like its not worth it....cool. It's not crap though.
11-06-2005, 02:19 PM
#52
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 90
Wow, when I started this thread, I never meant for it to turn into an arguement. I just wanted to find out if one has your basic bolt ons, would this give you just that little bit more. I'm sure if I get 3-7 HP from an intake, and 3-7 more HP from an UDP, it will help you get a little more out of the engine. 3HP here 6 HP there 10 HP there, it does add up eventualy right?
11-06-2005, 04:51 PM
#53
Originally Posted by Groundz
Wow, when I started this thread, I never meant for it to turn into an arguement. I just wanted to find out if one has your basic bolt ons, would this give you just that little bit more. I'm sure if I get 3-7 HP from an intake, and 3-7 more HP from an UDP, it will help you get a little more out of the engine. 3HP here 6 HP there 10 HP there, it does add up eventualy right?
Ricer math doesn't add up. Pun intended. Like i've said, if you're faster than another car if you have the UDP, you'd be faster than it if you had the stock pulley. If you're slower than another car, the UDP won't make you faster than it, no matter what other mods you have.
11-06-2005, 04:55 PM
#54
Originally Posted by bijangxe
I understand what youre point is. But youre taking it out of proportion. Gains are negligible...same with a B pipe.
OMG motor swap! Good for you man....fun stuff huh? I wasnt calling YOU the "b" word...I just say it. But if you feel like its not worth it....cool. It's not crap though.
11-06-2005, 05:06 PM
#55
C'mon guys let's think about this. The engine is accelerating MANY other things other than the crank pulley. It's accelerating the alternator, a/c compressor, power steering pump, the water pump, the flywheel, the tranny, the wheels, and the rotors. If you add all that inertia up, and you remove a tiny bit of mass from the crank pulley, it's insignificant. This is why the motor revs so much more freely IN NEUTRAL. Because only the accessories and flywheel are being accelerated. But add the tranny, wheels, and rotors, the difference is much, much less.
Over, and out...
Over, and out...
11-06-2005, 06:32 PM
#56
Nismology, I've searched your posts and find them to help, educate, and benefit in our understanding of many mods for our cars...but:
1) motorstorm udp is cheap at 70 bucks when a bunch of us bought it. for that price, it's already knocking the worthiness questions out of the way.
2) motorstorm udp, as i have researched over and over before i bought it, has updated their design from a copy of the unorthodox's. there isn't a problem with the udp to work on our vq's unless installed improperly. i bought two of them for my 95 5 speed and 96 auto. both of them have no faults what-so-ever. no oil leaks either. i even bought two ring seals for the crank, and the mechanics said there is no need because the old ones are still good...no mechanical problems.
3) about this gains crap, i just like to say first: the weight difference between the motorstorm udp and the stock udp is a dramatic difference. be it the placebo effect, i'd say, by putting my foot on that gas pedal to drive..."not at neutral, but actually driving", it up the rpm range much quicker than before. response is improved for sure. even the auto max felt it, though not as much as the 5 speed.
4) for additive effects, with as many mods as i already got on my car, it did shave off lots of doubts about the effects of the udp's=i got gains from it. it's actually at higher ends of the powerband that the udp helps. i take this complimented gain a direct effect from the combination of the mevi, splitfire ignitions, 7200 rev ecu, pf tb, and lightened flywheel.
5) the only thing bad about the udp in my situation is the rev drop because i also got the 5lb flywheel from stillen. sure it climbs up quickly on the rpm range, but on the same hand, it drops quickly when i clutch-in to switch gears. this is the only bad thing i perceived. but i still wouldn't put the stock pulley back on for this. because on the highway, it's at my ease to pass other cars.
the bottomline...
you busted your **** telling us that this mod isn't worth its evey penny. i won't disagree to your opinion. but my opinion is totally on the opposite. this discussion will go on and on with the same stuff over and over. i'd say to let those yay and nay sayers say what they want; but arguements won't do any good.
1) motorstorm udp is cheap at 70 bucks when a bunch of us bought it. for that price, it's already knocking the worthiness questions out of the way.
2) motorstorm udp, as i have researched over and over before i bought it, has updated their design from a copy of the unorthodox's. there isn't a problem with the udp to work on our vq's unless installed improperly. i bought two of them for my 95 5 speed and 96 auto. both of them have no faults what-so-ever. no oil leaks either. i even bought two ring seals for the crank, and the mechanics said there is no need because the old ones are still good...no mechanical problems.
3) about this gains crap, i just like to say first: the weight difference between the motorstorm udp and the stock udp is a dramatic difference. be it the placebo effect, i'd say, by putting my foot on that gas pedal to drive..."not at neutral, but actually driving", it up the rpm range much quicker than before. response is improved for sure. even the auto max felt it, though not as much as the 5 speed.
4) for additive effects, with as many mods as i already got on my car, it did shave off lots of doubts about the effects of the udp's=i got gains from it. it's actually at higher ends of the powerband that the udp helps. i take this complimented gain a direct effect from the combination of the mevi, splitfire ignitions, 7200 rev ecu, pf tb, and lightened flywheel.
5) the only thing bad about the udp in my situation is the rev drop because i also got the 5lb flywheel from stillen. sure it climbs up quickly on the rpm range, but on the same hand, it drops quickly when i clutch-in to switch gears. this is the only bad thing i perceived. but i still wouldn't put the stock pulley back on for this. because on the highway, it's at my ease to pass other cars.
the bottomline...
you busted your **** telling us that this mod isn't worth its evey penny. i won't disagree to your opinion. but my opinion is totally on the opposite. this discussion will go on and on with the same stuff over and over. i'd say to let those yay and nay sayers say what they want; but arguements won't do any good.
11-06-2005, 07:34 PM
#58
They have sets of pullies for other engines IIRC so I would imagine.
Nismology, I think your posts make sense with the all the other things the engine has to drive while in gear. From what I understand, the pulley creates more area under the curve, by getting to peak horsepower faster. I think most everyone agrees that the peak HP of the motor will not be effected, but I also think that these people that are giving the "seat of the pants" analysis may be referring to the AOTC.
Nismology, I think your posts make sense with the all the other things the engine has to drive while in gear. From what I understand, the pulley creates more area under the curve, by getting to peak horsepower faster. I think most everyone agrees that the peak HP of the motor will not be effected, but I also think that these people that are giving the "seat of the pants" analysis may be referring to the AOTC.
11-06-2005, 07:40 PM
#59
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,183
I didn't think you could get lighter pullies for the accessories. Besides you would be underdriving the accessories physically and thus they wouldn't work at their highest potential. I would feel happier knowing that my water pump works well at idle.
To add to the argument ... physical gains exist, but don't expect much because you will be disappointed I am sure. I am considering getting a Motostrom UDP for my BDay or Christmas.
Here is my Q ... People started arguing in the GD(Motostrom) that the stock pulley has a harmonic balancer that reduces vibrations and crap. Some came to the conclusion that it actually damages your engine IN THE LONG RUN due to vibrations over time. Anyones .02 cents over this?
To add to the argument ... physical gains exist, but don't expect much because you will be disappointed I am sure. I am considering getting a Motostrom UDP for my BDay or Christmas.
Here is my Q ... People started arguing in the GD(Motostrom) that the stock pulley has a harmonic balancer that reduces vibrations and crap. Some came to the conclusion that it actually damages your engine IN THE LONG RUN due to vibrations over time. Anyones .02 cents over this?
11-06-2005, 07:46 PM
#61
Originally Posted by scrhale
I am definately not the knowledge person, but if I am right ... you get a smaller Power Steering belt and accessory belt with the UDP. Only 2 belts are attached to the Pulley.
To add to the argument ... physical gains exist, but don't expect much because you will be disappointed I am sure. I am considering getting a Motostrom UDP for my BDay or Christmas.
Here is my Q ... People started arguing in the GD(Motostrom) that the stock pulley has a harmonic balancer that reduces vibrations and crap. Some came to the conclusion that it actually damages your engine IN THE LONG RUN due to vibrations over time. Anyones .02 cents over this?
To add to the argument ... physical gains exist, but don't expect much because you will be disappointed I am sure. I am considering getting a Motostrom UDP for my BDay or Christmas.
Here is my Q ... People started arguing in the GD(Motostrom) that the stock pulley has a harmonic balancer that reduces vibrations and crap. Some came to the conclusion that it actually damages your engine IN THE LONG RUN due to vibrations over time. Anyones .02 cents over this?
Ive been running an UDP for way over 3 years now with no issues.
11-06-2005, 07:50 PM
#62
Originally Posted by scrhale
Here is my Q ... People started arguing in the GD(Motostrom) that the stock pulley has a harmonic balancer that reduces vibrations and crap. Some came to the conclusion that it actually damages your engine IN THE LONG RUN due to vibrations over time. Anyones .02 cents over this?
11-06-2005, 08:34 PM
#63
those damages are results of bad pulley ring dampners made in them. the uneven material distribution made bad harmonic frequencies thus spinning at a unbalanced momentum to cause trouble after a period of time. the motorstorm corrected this problem with the bronze-copper ring seals on the 2nd gen pulleys they are selling nowadays, so there isn't any problems.
motorstorm used high quality treated bronze-copper center ring to damp and also stop oil leaks. this doesn't have to be rubber, a soft enough metal like bronze-copper ring they put down which replaces the factory rubber seal will do the job. all you got to do is to secure the pulley on the crank tightly, and it'll do it's toll to stop the oil from leaking and spin safely to turn the accessory pulleys. both of my pulleys on the auto and 5 speed max's are not leaking from the crankshafts nor causing vibrations...anymore???
motorstorm used high quality treated bronze-copper center ring to damp and also stop oil leaks. this doesn't have to be rubber, a soft enough metal like bronze-copper ring they put down which replaces the factory rubber seal will do the job. all you got to do is to secure the pulley on the crank tightly, and it'll do it's toll to stop the oil from leaking and spin safely to turn the accessory pulleys. both of my pulleys on the auto and 5 speed max's are not leaking from the crankshafts nor causing vibrations...anymore???
(these are from a Mustang 4.6 for example)
11-07-2005, 10:24 AM
#66
Originally Posted by nismology
Yes the stock pulley has a rubber ring on it that absorbs some of the crank vibrations. I've never seen an aftermarket UDP with one. Someone please correct me if there is in fact one that has it. Damage from this has never been documented, although some people in the past have complained about a small increase in vibrations.
11-07-2005, 10:58 AM
#67
fr33...yes, there are lighter acc pulleys to buy, but not one is known for our cars...
maxdaddy...you can go to the group deals forum, go back a few pages and try to pull out that thread we've had on motorstorm's udp. i tried to search but it doesn't seem like i can find it at a glance. i don't think he's going to do another deal for 70 bucks unless 30 people signed up on it. when i was doing mine, there were more than 50 of us interested, so they had to run another deal. also, you may be able to search on ebay on those pulleys. motorstorm used to also sell them on ebay, but be careful to buy it from him. there are so many chinese pulleys on there that looks like his. good luck.
maxdaddy...you can go to the group deals forum, go back a few pages and try to pull out that thread we've had on motorstorm's udp. i tried to search but it doesn't seem like i can find it at a glance. i don't think he's going to do another deal for 70 bucks unless 30 people signed up on it. when i was doing mine, there were more than 50 of us interested, so they had to run another deal. also, you may be able to search on ebay on those pulleys. motorstorm used to also sell them on ebay, but be careful to buy it from him. there are so many chinese pulleys on there that looks like his. good luck.
11-07-2005, 02:49 PM
#68
Just searched...
motorstorm has the lightest udp made for our maxima's at 2.16 lb's. ur pulley is a little over 2.3 lb's. (these are the pulleys we can get today without a mechanical problem)
those chinese pulleys on ebay sell for 50 bucks plus shipping and weighed 1.5 lb's. (many seem to have been disgusted by their flaws at all angles)
motorstorm has the lightest udp made for our maxima's at 2.16 lb's. ur pulley is a little over 2.3 lb's. (these are the pulleys we can get today without a mechanical problem)
those chinese pulleys on ebay sell for 50 bucks plus shipping and weighed 1.5 lb's. (many seem to have been disgusted by their flaws at all angles)
11-07-2005, 03:01 PM
#69
So a Motostorm is .14 lbs lighter than the UR ? Nice find
But Im just gona say this, Ive run quite a few "quick" cars in the area...and when I say quick....I thought I was going to lose. Im not saying it's 100% due to my UDP...but I know it helps.
But Im just gona say this, Ive run quite a few "quick" cars in the area...and when I say quick....I thought I was going to lose. Im not saying it's 100% due to my UDP...but I know it helps.
11-07-2005, 03:39 PM
#70
Of course, every little bit helps. To each his own though... some may think it's worth it, some may not. Personally, I think it all adds up, otherwise we'd all just boost our cars and be done with it. So what's the site for that motostorm udp?
11-07-2005, 08:25 PM
#71
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bartlett, IL
Posts: 3,595
Originally Posted by lilaclucymaxima
Of course, every little bit helps. To each his own though... some may think it's worth it, some may not. Personally, I think it all adds up, otherwise we'd all just boost our cars and be done with it. So what's the site for that motostorm udp?
11-16-2005, 06:15 AM
#73
www.motostorm.com $109
11-16-2005, 01:25 PM
#74
Originally Posted by naplesmaxima
www.motostorm.com $109
11-16-2005, 09:32 PM
#75
Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 94
Originally Posted by maxspeed96CT
I have a motostorm
love it , good mod for less than 100$ (70 for pulley and about 25~ for belts)
prolly didnt give me much power, but the tires seem to break loose more in first gear, and i can feel more pull above the 5k range
( cause i remeber my rpms would creep after 5k but now they seem to go faster)
its worth it if you put it on yourself, cause it would prolly cost about 100$ to put it on which would suck.
First buy exhaust and the other basics, then add the pulley as alittle something extra.
love it , good mod for less than 100$ (70 for pulley and about 25~ for belts)
prolly didnt give me much power, but the tires seem to break loose more in first gear, and i can feel more pull above the 5k range
( cause i remeber my rpms would creep after 5k but now they seem to go faster)
its worth it if you put it on yourself, cause it would prolly cost about 100$ to put it on which would suck.
First buy exhaust and the other basics, then add the pulley as alittle something extra.
11-17-2005, 08:07 AM
#77
the pulley will always be a small mod. alone it does basicly nothing.
just like an intake, or an exhuast... all alone they do little or nothing.
but start adding things together and then the fun begins. theres a lot of systems in a car that must work together to make a car fast.
u cant go out and buy one nice new running shoe and expect to be able to run the mile faster.
intake=small or no gain
exhaust=no gain
y-pipe=small gain
intake+exhaust=decent gain
intake+exhaust+y-pipe=decent to mid gain
pulley=no gain
flywheel=little gain
flywheel+pulley=decent to mid gain
flywheel+pulley+light wheels=good stuff
intake+exhaust+y-pipe+flywheel+pulley-bbk-broke vais+timing advance+gripy rubber=me
just what ive noticed from my max modding, every car is different. and autos just dont see the gains a manual will
just like an intake, or an exhuast... all alone they do little or nothing.
but start adding things together and then the fun begins. theres a lot of systems in a car that must work together to make a car fast.
u cant go out and buy one nice new running shoe and expect to be able to run the mile faster.
intake=small or no gain
exhaust=no gain
y-pipe=small gain
intake+exhaust=decent gain
intake+exhaust+y-pipe=decent to mid gain
pulley=no gain
flywheel=little gain
flywheel+pulley=decent to mid gain
flywheel+pulley+light wheels=good stuff
intake+exhaust+y-pipe+flywheel+pulley-bbk-broke vais+timing advance+gripy rubber=me
just what ive noticed from my max modding, every car is different. and autos just dont see the gains a manual will
Wait 'til NmexMAX gets a load of this...
.........