Ryan D

I don't think it was specifically said, but engine braking itself is just letting the engine (compression?) slow you down, doesn't really have anything directly to do with the clutch. I do it if I feel like it, and usually pop the car - not a Maxima - into second gear around 5k and let my speed burn off, and it slows me down at about the same pace as the traffic around me. Letting the clutch absorb the full force of a downshift without rev-matching is probably one of the worst things that can be done to it, next to daily driving in San Francisco. It's also a bike-riding habit of never being out of gear if I can help it, so I can smoothly get out of the way in a hurry if I need to.

For smooth starts, I think it leaned pretty heavily on just knowing the friction point of the clutch. Something I make all of the people I've taught do is to get in an empty parking lot, and get the car moving with the clutch engaged without ever touching the gas. Once you've got that down, the rest is pretty easy, and the only tricky bits afterwards are hills and heel-toe downshifting.

I don't know if you really have to take your foot off the gas before clutching in to downshift, but it's a good habit to get into, I'm guessing. I tend to do it for big downshifts like 4-2 while braking, but dropping from 5th to 4th on the freeway while just leaving my foot barely on the gas pretty much rev-matches it perfectly anyways.

edit: whee typos

dgeesaman

iTrader: (10)

No. You can put your foot on the gas and hold the engine rpm while engaging. With practice, the whole process will be fast enough that you can engage (clutch out) without the engine rpms falling, and it will look like the procedure above.

dgeesaman

iTrader: (10)

Like MorpheusZero said, this is not an issue. A grabbier clutch is less forgiving to drive, so generally you want the lightest clutch required for your application.

Which brings up the point of flywheels. Light flywheels will reduce the inertia even further - which helps when you're in gear and acclerating WOT, but makes shifts and blips and rev matching that much less forgiving.

Dave

darqice

So I'm pretty lazy, and I've found that by far the smoothest, easiest starts for me from a dead stop is starting in 2nd gear. (especially in traffic with no need for fast acceleration) Of course I don't do this on any kind of upslope - only down slope or level.

how many other 4th gen max drivers do this / find themselves doing this?

is is bad / that bad to do this?

MorpheusZero

iTrader: (10)

Very true. With my current driving style, I'd rather the stock flywheel and clutch (although not being able to chirp second when I really feel the need to is annoying) than lighter/stronger ones. I like the feeling of having a "big" engine in my car with a 5sp... previously most of the 5sps I drove were 4cyls, and I rode in a Z8 once, that thing is a monster and you can feel it even when it's not being wrung out. The whole car would rock whenever the guy revved a little before he let the clutch out, and it just felt like the car followed the engine instead of the engine following the car, you know? It just made it that much more badass. I get the same type of feeling (albeit not nearly as severe) with the VQ.

Well, it's just "easier" because the drivetrain will be putting less maximum torque to the wheels in 2nd than in first, so it's sort of like a babysitter--it limits how drastically you can lurch the car. It's also easier if you're lazier, but unless I've been driving for way too long I would rather be involved and enjoy it more (aka starting out in first).

as long as you don't slip the clutch too badly (just don't change your mind and decide to take off quickly while the clutch is still slipping, because you WILL burn it), it won't do you any harm. Yes, it's worse for the clutch since you will need to generate more heat respectively than if you started out in first, but it's no big deal. Clutches can generally take a lot of abuse as long as you have shy of 200hp/tq.

It seems like people are being more cautious than is necessary in this thread. We have VQ30s, not S62s. I don't think anyone has gone through a clutch in 5k miles and most last for well over 60k--on occasion, even three times that. The reason they were being more cautious with the M5 is that the clutch is designed to be soft and still has to handle 400hp/tq, since the car's still a saloon and is meant to retain some grace instead of just pure muscle. People drive those cars like a bat out of hell, because they're also fun on a track, and they burn up their clutch. I guess that's just my $.02 though.

P.S. all watching those videos really did to me was make me lust after the E39 M5 even more.... you're all a bunch of bastards for that.

KCMaxima98

iTrader: (4)

I'll bet that you have to make the clutch slip too much in order to do this. It will probably wear out faster. I never start in 2nd unless Im driving in snow or ice and am having trouble getting traction in 1st gear. If you are having jerking problems when starting in 1st though then maybe you're letting the clutch out too fast. Rev it to 1K and gradually let the clutch out while giving it a little more throttle and you should get smooth starts.

dgeesaman

iTrader: (10)

I do it sometimes - as long as you don't take more than a second to engage the clutch, and you get it to engage low (around 1000rpm), you're probably not going to have a significant effect on clutch life.

Dave

rome06

iTrader: (1)

someone said that (example) if you are at a red light waiting for it to turn green, to keep the car in neutral with clutch out.....i dont see what the problem is if you sit there at the light with the clutch all the way to the floor, in 1st gear, and with the brakes on (depending if your on a hill or not)

MorpheusZero

iTrader: (10)

It won't exactly murder your clutch, but it will wear a certain part (some type of bearing, I believe, maybe throwout?) faster than it would wear normally. Don't lose any sleep over it.

southeast_first

iTrader: (3)

yep, throwout bearing. i don't honestly know how much of a difference it makes, but i say just leave it in neutral, because there isn't really a good reason not to, and it's easier on your left leg if your town has long stoplights.

Maximasevspec

iTrader: (4)

when starting off... dont rev past 1000 when u start going, ppl who rev to lik 2.5 and start to slip the clutch to get goign on a normal baises kill the clutch so its very important to keep the rpms down when goign and between gears

Batxel

iTrader: (1)

also you will give your hydraulic system an extra workout which it doesn't really need

trojandude

thats how i learned and now i am MaStER ShIFtEr ...no really though open parking lots are your best friends. one thing that also helped me with starting from a standstill is to learn where the clutch point is. turn the car on, in first, and just let the clutch out slowly until you feel where that engaging point is and before it starts to die, put the clutch back in. do that over and over until you get a feel for it. seriously, i was driving my uncles truck and i went around the block like i would normally drive, sort of like you, rev it up to like 2K so you know it wont stall. my uncle then told me about the clutch point, and the 2nd time i went around the block, i was driving with no problem at all. it just takes time and practice in a place where there is no traffic. good luck with it too

toyick

iTrader: (6)

learn how to shift with out the clutch..if you can do that..you can do anything else!




oh and driving the car can wear the clutch out so be careful...
geez just drive around for like 5 days strait...and figure it out..if it feels ruff then your doen it wrong...Other then that all thease guys can tell you what not to do or do..just go out and drive it... It takes common sense, and pratice to figure out whats bad for the car.

Wolf-Strong

Wow! I can't tell you guys how much this info has helped me better understand how to start using a manual. Plan to start on my dad's ol' 1974 Datsun pickup this winder, which should be fun
So yeah, just thanks a bunch!