Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Do a search!

JMAX95

What I've posted is just my opinion. You don't have to like it or agree with it. I'm sorry if it seems I'm being offensive. I'm sure you guys have helped many people and have probably helped me too in previous posts. I do try to look at this from both sides; especially when you guys have been on this forum for awhile. Also, you feel that Daniel B. is being taken advantage of. Is this what he told you or is it just what you think?

Kyle7475

2 cycle oil

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

It is my opinion. It's based on observing most old timers post over the years. They start to get burnt out by answering the same questions all the time. In order to preserve a good resource like Daniel, don't you think all posters should respect him by reading the faqs and using the search feature before posting a question? Or do you just want to churn and burn yet another knowledgable maxima owner??

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

It's hard to add on to my thoughts with the oil analysis sticky, but first thing's first is to put 5W-30 in there. I'm still clueless as to why a modern engine would need 15W50. Unless your smokin' or leakin' like the Exxon Valdez, 5W-30 should foot the bill all of the time.

If you go to 10k intervals, a filter change at 5k would probably be a good idea. Although technically it's not necessary since Shing's oil results indicated that 1 Nissan OEM filter did last his entire interval on Mobile 1.

Conclusion: Mobile 1 with 10k intervals will be fine. Me personally, I would do Mobile 1 at 12k intervals with a filter change at 6k.

JMAX95

Heh heh, my bad. I totally understand now. You guys would rather pick apart my post sentence by sentence to flame me than help someone with an easy oil question. That's just amazing. What don't you guys correct my grammar too. I'm sure there are some in there.

BTW Castrol or Pennzoil 10W-30.

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

It's hard to add on to my thoughts with the oil analysis sticky, but first thing's first is to put 5W-30 in there. I'm still clueless as to why a modern engine would need 15W50. Unless your smokin' or leakin' like the Exxon Valdez, 5W-30 should foot the bill all of the time.

If you go to 10k intervals, a filter change at 5k would probably be a good idea. Although technically it's not necessary since Shing's oil results indicated that 1 Nissan OEM filter did last his entire interval on Mobile 1.

Conclusion: Mobile 1 with 10k intervals will be fine. Me personally, I would do Mobile 1 at 12k intervals with a filter change at 6k, especially with your high mileage.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

What? Then you must be blind. The only thing that is clear is that you don't read threads and you choose to ignore posts that have questions directed right at you.

Ie.. "simple oil question". This was answered about 3-4 times within this very thread.

Question: Are you this blind when you drive too?

JMAX95

Why yes, I try to close my eyes when I drive.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Try harder and drive faster.

The only reason I post this is that you probably won't see it.

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

Originally posted by JMAX95


Hmmm...if the question was THAT easy, why didn't you answer it for us?



If you don't want your sentences picked apart, then THINK before you type.



Yeah, but internet etiquette (or lack thereof) has sort of thrown that out the window. If a sentence has a subject, verb, and object, I'm usually pretty content.

To think you have the nerve to ask this after your statements IS AMAZING.

I'm a Pennzoil man myself, but many here like regular Castrol as well. I'm unaware of specific lab data with oil analysis, although some Amsoil flyers I occasionally receive with various oil tests usually have Pennzoil near the top of dino oils and Castrol at the middle or end.....

vmok

I use Mobil 1 15w50 because of the lack of friction modifiers. Engine oils with the energy conserving seal are required to improve gas mileage by a certain percent, something like 2-3%. To do this, they use friction modifiers. These friction modifiers do wear out, and also aren't as good at protecting the engines as oils without the friction modifiers. Typically, the heavier oils, don't improve the gas mileage anyway, so they leave these out. Also, most of the heavier oils, 10w40 up are used in turbo cars.

The second reason is I do very little cold start driving. Typically, when I start up my car, it warms up and it's doing at least 3000-3500 rpm for the next hour, running at the optimum engine temperature.

Third, I use the Mobil 1 15w50 because I buy 5-8 cases at a time (30-48 quarts) because my motorcycle uses a wet clutch bathed in oil shared with the engine. The friction modifiers cause the wet clutch to slip, so oils without these friction modifiers are needed. Motorcycle oil is very expensive, and synthetic motorcycle oil even more so. The older formulation of Mobil 1 15w50 was the same formula that they used for their bike synthetic oil except half as much in price. Triumph actually uses Mobil 1 Synthetic formula as the factory branded oil as well.

Finally, my Miata seems to work better with the thicker oil as it seems to cushion the lifters and makes a little less noise. The Miata revs even higher on the freeway, between 3500 to 4000rpm because of it's short gearing (redline of 7400rpm or so in 5th gear will only get you to 125-130mph). So I figure the high revving hotter running engines can take advantage of the thicker oil... Besides, in the California SF Bay Area, it doesn't get below like 25 degrees F and Mobil 1 15w50 should be able to slow down to like -10 degrees F.

Just personal preference really. Oh, one question, how do you change the filter and not the oil without the oil running out all over the place at 6k miles?

-V

JMAX95

Awesome. Thanks. I have no beef with you or Jeff. You know this could go back and forth without end. Everyone is trying so hard to get their point across. Sometimes just one post could get things rolling in the wrong direction.

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

My 15W-50 question revolved around its use in the VQ engine only, and not others. That's cool if it helps your Miata, and using this weight obviously helps you financially as well. I don't necessarily agree with your contention about not using 5W-30, but have no data to back up my statements besides a preference to use the viscosity Nissan recommends for at least the warranty period.

With that, I'll have to revise my recommendation to just changing the oil every 5 or 6k with a filter, since you're using "old school" oil.....I'm too ignorant to know if going beyond that will help or hurt.

On the VQ, you cannot change the oil filter without oil going everywhere. You will have to refill the crankcase with up to 1 quart of fresh oil.......sucks but that's the way it is.....

Kustrup

I second this question. Is it that oil enters the filter ONLY uder pressure while the engine is running? I thought I would look silly for asking... My bad.. No question is silly!

Answered Above. Thanks!

vmok

Thanks for the reply. BTW, outta curiosity, why is it that the Mobil 1 15w50 is considered 'old school' oil? Is it because it's in a higher weight/viscosity rating? Just wondering.

-V

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Yup 15w-50 is pretty heavy stuff for modern engines. Engines are built to smaller and smaller clearances, this needing a lower viscosity oils now. Check this. Some Fords and Hondas are requiring 5w-20 now. Some manuals say 0w-30 or 0w-20 are okay for some cars. Wow huh!?

vmok

Wow... Ok. I think I'll start using thinner oil! I definitely didn't know that... most of the oil stuff I've read is from the last couple of years (many many many documents.)

I know that just recently, Mobil 1 introduced their 'new' line of motorcycle oils, and that many of the previous tests that said they provided the same amount of protection as motorcycle oils in bikes or there was no benefit to using the motorcycle oils retracted what they said. Now, even though Mobil 1 15w50 is better than most dino oils in the bike, they say that Mobile 1 10w40MXT4 or whatever they call it is measurably better. Wow. And definitely thanks.

-V

now I just need to figure out how to change the filter and not the oil without making a mess

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, with such tight clearances in engines these days, 15w50 just isn't necessary anymore......hence my "old school" badge....

okmaxima

are oil changes neccessary in my case, since I have to add 1 quart every 1000 miles?

I just change the filter every 10k miles and I am ok??

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

Sure smarta$$.

okmaxima

thanks a$$smart!!

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

Now wait a minute here. I can understand 15W50 being considered old school, but 15W50 Synthetic? C'mon. I'm not an expert, but my feeling is that the Nissan (and most manufacturers oil recommendations for our engine are based on one assumption; the oil is regular, not synthetic. That being said, we all know that synthetic way outperforms regular. So much so that the SAE has to make a new specification to quantify just how good synthetic is, and it can only be compared to other synthetics. Forget dino.

Given that, and the fact that we can use 10W30 regular in our engines above 0 degrees F, I rationalize that any syntheic oil that isn't too far from the dino oil specs should be perfectly fine, especially if we are in warmer climes.

For me, I use 10W30 semi-synthetic all the time. Even in winter. I never have any starting problems. Granted, the past 2 winters in the northeast haven't got quite down to 0 degrees, but it got very close alot of times, like 15 degrees. My car always started like a champ. None of that sluggish, oil thick as vaseline feeling has come across my car.

I'm not trying to argue, just tryin' to understand, that's all.

Just my 2 cents

DW

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

The reason why you can run those oils is becuase it falls within the range that Nissan recommends(see the owners manual to make sure) The ultra low viscosities I mention are for specfic applications. But synthetics are better than dino oil at acting like their viscosities at extreme(high or low) temps. While 15w is not that thick, IMHO it's better to run a thinner oil for when the engine is cold. ie.. a 5w or 10w. It gets the oil to the heads faster. Now 50 is really thick(IMHO) 30 is about right. Even 40 is a tad too thick for my taste(if the temps never get over 110-120 deg f)

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

True, and I've read the manaual. 5W30 below zero exclusively, and 5W30 or 10W30 above zero. But the thing is, a 10W30 synthetic will flo better than a 5W30 regular, so it will protect your car better during cold startups. I think the specs put on Synthetics are a bit off because they depend on SAE specifications that account for dino oil.

Anyway, that's my rational. My baby's just about to turn 100K miles and I hope to take her all the way to 300 or more thousand miles.

DW

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

That could be true. I always thought synthetics will flow more to it's listed viscosity ie.. when cold it will flow like a 10w where a dino when cold might flow like a 15w or 20w when it's really cold. But I could be wrong.

B.C.

Someone mentioned that 5W-30 will flow better on cold start than 10W-30. Is this really true during summer months when we are talking about ambient temperatures of 70 degrees plus? I wouldn't think there would be much of flow difference when the oil is already equilibrated with ambient summer temperature. Is there published viscosity data tabulated vs. temperature that shows a 5w-30 vs 10w-30 viscosity difference at say 70F?

vmok

Well... here's a theory. If you do a lot of little short trips where the car is turned off for short periods of time while you go into the store then back out again, it might be better to have a heavier oil. The heavier oil won't drain back into the oil pan as quick, so you don't even have too wait for the oil to get pumped back up to the heads. It's already up there lubricating as soon as you start.

There's actually some TSB from Mazda for the Miata on lifter noise and switching to 10w30 from 5w30 if you have lots of lifter noise so that the oil can stay up in the head. I did have 15w50 in the 'ol Max last year when I went to Lake Tahoe while it was snowing. We spent the night and the next morning, we had to dig the car outta like 8 inches of snow. Car seemed to start ok with a really old battery. But it could be due to what dwapenyi
mentioned about the synthetics being better.

Anyway, just chiming in. BTW Jeff, you're right. After talking to you, I did many many searches on the web and read some articles that say the thinner oils might be better for newer cars because of their tighter clearances and tolerances. It seemed like gas mileage was also a factor. There was some mention of friction modifiers, and how they improve gas mileage but can shear over time and not provide as strong a film for protection. And it seems to make sense that the thicker oils will have a stronger film protecting parts. There was also info on how the micro-jagged edges in the engine might be served better with a thicker oil, because the thinner oils might allow the micro-jagged edges to rub against each other accelerating wear (the actual name of the term started with an A but i don't remember what the term was !) I dunno. I guess everything has tradeoffs...

Daniel B. Martin

The term "heavier" is a relative term describing viscosity. Viscosity is one of the many characteristics of lubricating oils. These include ...
- Film Strength
- Flash Point
- Lubricity
- Oxidation Stability
- Pour Point
- Purity
- Thermal Stability
- Viscosity
- Volatility

I'm no expert and this list is probably incomplete. However, I believe it is Film Strengh, not Viscosity, which is a measure of oil's ability to cling to engine parts rather than drain back into the oil pan. Film Strength is a function of the base stock (crude oil) and may be enhanced by an additive package. Film Strength is not directly connected to Viscosity, and it is a mistake to believe that "heavier" oil is necessarily "clingier" oil.

Kyle7475

And there ya have it, Daniel has stepped in.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Have what?? Daniel is a great resource but I refrained from going into specific details regarding terms beucase it's beyond the scope of the dicussion. If you are curious about specific oil terms, read the links provided by the stickes and the links I suggested before.

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

Jeff,

I'm now considering a boycott of answering in the 4th gen forum. This has gotten ridiculous.

Since when did only one person have ALL the answers and ALL the experience to ALL questions?

Props to Daniel for sharing his knowledge with all of us, but the pervasive attitude of certain members on this board that "if Daniel doesn't know then no one does" is stupid.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Bill didn't you hear??

The 4-geners have erected a DBM shrine. Every Sunday, they all meet at the shrine and burn incense in Daniel's honor.

*ummmmmmm..Daniel is a god*. *ummmmmmm Daniel is a god*, they all chant over and over.

Then they all get up, hold hands and form a circle. They run counter clockwise and sing "if Daniel doesn't know, no one knows!"


Sorry Daniel. I just had to add to Bill's scarcasm. You have do admit, it does get kinda ridiculas. Your not secretly trying to brainwash all the 4-geners into some kind of mass suicide are ya? What's the date?? LOL

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

I should make this post a sticky....that's classic!

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Ohhhhhhhh I dare you!!! Just do it for a few days. Just to stir the pot. At maxus, I'll pay 1/2 of the cost of the bodyguard. LOL

Daniel B. Martin

I didn't intend to step on a hornet's nest. Forgive me if I inadvertently hit anybody's "hot button".

I am a Do-It-Yourself mechanic, mostly self-taught. In other words, I am a hobbyist, an amateur, a shade-tree mechanic. I have never worked in the automotive industry. I have no "insider" information.

I like to do my own "wrenching" and willingly share knowledge and techniques with others. I try to separate fact from opinion, and honestly label each for what it is. When practical, I substantiate my information with pointers to repair manuals, magazine articles, or Web sites.

I am sometimes wrong, but never knowingly mislead another person.

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

Originally posted by Daniel B. Martin


Daniel, you're not the problem. Each member knows for themself if they are the problem.

Kyle7475

I am a problem cuz I didn't know what would be the best oil to run in my car??

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

No. That's a legitimate question. And, may I remind you, was answered several times.

Saying "Daniel's spoken so we can all rest easy now" is disrespecting the experiences and input from other long term members and implies that if Daniel doesn't answer a question, then all responses are NULL and VOID.

That kind of implication disturbs me.