Mod to change automatic shift RPM
12-08-2005, 08:43 AM
#41
Originally Posted by CreativeDesignz
so ontop of this mod that you are trying to accomplish you would, if u had a VI or mevi, want an upgraded ECU as well so that u can shift around 7k or so correct, this could probably get pricey pretty fast. what about messing with something in the valve body? possibly softer springs? or maybe harder ones? this is a great idea none the less
Messing with the valve body will not do anything to change the shift points because its all controlled electronically. All you can do there is change the line pressure etc and the DR mod does that simply and easily.
Hopefully in the near future the EU will allow the rev limiter to be raised, plus advancing and retarding timing, plus a/f control, 2 step, VI control (if you have it) etc all for $600 or less. That will make it the boss as far as bang for your buck and JWT won't be selling ECU upgrades anymore.
12-08-2005, 09:33 AM
#43
Originally Posted by Jime
Hopefully in the near future the EU will allow the rev limiter to be raised, plus advancing and retarding timing, plus a/f control, 2 step, VI control (if you have it) etc all for $600 or less. That will make it the boss as far as bang for your buck and JWT won't be selling ECU upgrades anymore.
Greddy's slow getting the EU fully functional, it was really rushed to market... but it will be worth it in the end I think. And for those who may not know they're planning to add even more useful features in the future, such as knock retard.
12-27-2005, 08:10 PM
#44
My Edge torque converter is installed... Hot 350Z as well
Originally Posted by Jime
Good stuff on the converter, maybe I should be buying stock in Edge, I have one sitting in my workshop itching to be installed as well.
I didn't have the DR-mod switched on, so this was at normal transmission pressures, and no MEVI solenoid connected and no spray re-installed yet. Oh yeah, another new engine along with the Edge torgue converter.
A little highway driving showed no apparent difference but roads were too crowded to roll fast. Soon.
A side note - I met a guy at the shop tonight with a black 2004 350Z that was completely rebuilt by a tuner in Texas - rods, low-compression pistons, ARP studs and bolts and other unnamed inside parts, a monster ProCharger with 12psi boost, a NX 50?-shot, a 300ZX clutch, a composite spacer in the upper manifold to reduce heat -which worked - cold on top - we took a ride - a dynoed 400wheel HP on blower and 500 HP with spray. That car was a beast - a second-gear punchout flattened me into the seat. The clutch slipped and burned and the blowoff valve sounded like a trumpet blowing at higher RPMs.
It was a noisy car, with rattles and other noises, but OHMYGAD, first was unusable and second gear was unreal. The guy doesn't want to hit the track, 'cause "he blows things up". The last rebuild took over six months, while he scraped up the cash, he said. You know, that ProCharger installation looked like a very healthy Vortec, with super wide belts. If that would fit on a FWD 3.5L, I want one....
01-12-2006, 08:09 AM
#46
Shift RPMS with an Edge....
Originally Posted by Jime
Even if you don't raise the rev limiter being able to automatically shift at 6500 vs 6000 would help considerably depending on your other mods. However if you did raise the limiter and have cams etc it would be even more helpful.
I have the latest Digimoto installed on a laptop, so I can get four graphs on the screen at the same time. Each graph puts numbers in the graph as they occur. Digimoto doesn't seem to save these graphs, so I installed a copy of Camtasia on the notebook. This program captures the entire screen at 15 frames per second and saves to an AVI file. Makes a "movie" of the screen while running. I can make screen prints from the movie.
When logging and launching with a 50-shot and the 9.7" BGF DRs, I saw the transmission shift at 6365 RPM going from 1st to 2nd. I couldn't get numbers for the 2-3 shift - there wasn't room on any on-ramps for that. I did make another full-power launch and the tranny shifted 1-2 at 5962 RPM. The ECU ignition advance shows 23-24 degrees of advance while spraying. I think things are happening faster than Digimoto can show on the screen....
Spraying with the Edge is a whole new experience - the car leaps off the line, and tire spin on our cold and dirty roads is tremendous. I think I actually hit the rev-limiter on the first launch - the engine coughed right at shift. I had to wait to spray - launching with spray just digs holes in the road. Come on, spring!
I'm going to try to datalog shifts again, when I can find a longer stretch of safe road. I'll have to drive to a longer on-ramp, but I want to get solid numbers on the 1-2 and 2-3 shift points.
01-12-2006, 08:30 AM
#47
Sure would like to try out the converter, sounds impressive. What is it like N/A from a stop compared to before?
Its difficult to get anything fast through the OBDII port on the 4th Gens. Limiting the logging to 2 items will speed it up.
I should have my cams within the next week or two and if we get some nice warm weather like today I may just install the engine before spring so I can try the converter as well. I don't have a garage so weather plays a big factor. However I still have lots to do yet, I am doing some weight reduction and installing a fuel cell vs tank etc etc and a lot of stuff I can bring inside and work on it.
Its difficult to get anything fast through the OBDII port on the 4th Gens. Limiting the logging to 2 items will speed it up.
I should have my cams within the next week or two and if we get some nice warm weather like today I may just install the engine before spring so I can try the converter as well. I don't have a garage so weather plays a big factor. However I still have lots to do yet, I am doing some weight reduction and installing a fuel cell vs tank etc etc and a lot of stuff I can bring inside and work on it.
01-12-2006, 09:18 AM
#48
Originally Posted by Jime
Sure would like to try out the converter, sounds impressive. What is it like N/A from a stop compared to before?
Its difficult to get anything fast through the OBDII port on the 4th Gens. Limiting the logging to 2 items will speed it up.
Its difficult to get anything fast through the OBDII port on the 4th Gens. Limiting the logging to 2 items will speed it up.
Starting from a stop, no spray, no brake, when the pedal is depressed, the RPMs jump up to 2300-2500 and tire spin commences. This is with the 9.7" DRs mounted and my VLSD auto. If you brake, run up to stall and release - lots more tire spin. Lots. the Edge hooks up very well once you're past stall-speed. I swear it's like driving a 5-spd - except it shifts faster..
You can roll into a launch from idle - but it takes longer because RPMs have to climb into the 2000-2200 range before the car moves much. Some preload is always required, I think. It's much diffferent than stock to drive hard - normal driving is pretty much - well- normal.
I'll try logging just RPMs first, then pick up ignition advance for my own education...
01-13-2006, 01:30 PM
#49
A screen-shot of Digimoto w/EDGE while spraying..
Hope Photobucket didn't shrink file too badly..
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2.../EDGEspray.jpg
Darn - looks like too small after all.
Hope Photobucket didn't shrink file too badly..
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2.../EDGEspray.jpg
Darn - looks like too small after all.
01-13-2006, 05:53 PM
#51
Originally Posted by 96customax
ok i just wanted to say this...
on page 1 it show's that i made a post here but i did not.. that means someone on the org is using my name... that realy pisses me off.... how can i change my password?
on page 1 it show's that i made a post here but i did not.. that means someone on the org is using my name... that realy pisses me off.... how can i change my password?
Originally Posted by 96customax
interested in this also. Its time us auto's get something nice for our tranny''s
01-13-2006, 06:23 PM
#52
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 29
ok let me get this straight u are trying to find a way to electronically make your tranny to switch at a higher rpm thus pushing ur engine to the limits, worsening gas mileage, but can an automatic handle it? this seems very interesting
this brings me to think about the other technology around the market now-a-days, such as a the vw gti w/ the automatic that performs very well can we somehow use some of that technology or does that require that dsg tech?
this brings me to think about the other technology around the market now-a-days, such as a the vw gti w/ the automatic that performs very well can we somehow use some of that technology or does that require that dsg tech?
01-27-2006, 06:54 AM
#54
Just a bit of an update. I finally got the stuff delivered yesterday from Australia, been waiting since 30 Nov, apparently they send me an email requesting more CC info and I missed it.
Anyway, I pretty much got it built staying up late last night and just finished a few minutes ago. Can't test until I get a 25 pin M/M Serial cable so I might get a chance to try it out today. Otherwise I am off to Fla on Sun for a week to visit my Mom and some R&R.
The good news is that if I can get it to work as planned it will only require a 2 wire hookup plus power, so it will be easy to install.
Anyway, I pretty much got it built staying up late last night and just finished a few minutes ago. Can't test until I get a 25 pin M/M Serial cable so I might get a chance to try it out today. Otherwise I am off to Fla on Sun for a week to visit my Mom and some R&R.
The good news is that if I can get it to work as planned it will only require a 2 wire hookup plus power, so it will be easy to install.
01-27-2006, 09:35 AM
#55
Glad you got it finally Jim. Now if I could only get my frigging EU module any time soon 
Enjoy the sunny south - I will probably come up to see you in 2 or 3 weeks.. (also gotta fit a trip to Michigan in there too). And you better not look too tanned! lol
Enjoy the sunny south - I will probably come up to see you in 2 or 3 weeks.. (also gotta fit a trip to Michigan in there too). And you better not look too tanned! lol
02-15-2006, 11:18 AM
#56
02-15-2006, 03:25 PM
#57
I did check it out, had to call them to find out just what it did, their site sure doesn't give any info.
It does raise the shift point just like I am trying to do. However it is fixed and cannot be changed unless you send in the tcu and it costs $500.
But at least there is something available commercially which is what I was looking for.
It does raise the shift point just like I am trying to do. However it is fixed and cannot be changed unless you send in the tcu and it costs $500.
But at least there is something available commercially which is what I was looking for.
03-14-2006, 10:27 AM
#59
Hopefully I will get my engine in within the next 3 or 4 days, then I can do a little more testing and with any luck it will be a go.
I played a bit with my wife's car but didn't have any luck, too much stuff in the road because its stock so will wait until I have mine running.
At this point I am fairly sure it will be a success but time will tell.
I played a bit with my wife's car but didn't have any luck, too much stuff in the road because its stock so will wait until I have mine running.
At this point I am fairly sure it will be a success but time will tell.
03-14-2006, 12:37 PM
#61
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Jime, please add me to your "interested party" list.
I thought our cars did already shift at/near our 6500 RPM redline. ? I guess I'll have to pay closer attention.
I can shift my car at ~6700 using my manumatic (rev limiter comes on shortly thereafter). But It would be nice to shift at say 6700 without having to time it just right with the manumatic.
Keep us updated!
I thought our cars did already shift at/near our 6500 RPM redline. ? I guess I'll have to pay closer attention.
I can shift my car at ~6700 using my manumatic (rev limiter comes on shortly thereafter). But It would be nice to shift at say 6700 without having to time it just right with the manumatic.
Keep us updated!
03-14-2006, 01:06 PM
#62
Dammm just putting the trans on now and the hi stall converter won't fit. Bolt pattern is too small. Waiting for a return call now. It took like 5 weeks to get it so I guess I am going to have to install the old one for now. What a ripoff.
03-15-2006, 08:13 AM
#63
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I'm still a little confused about what you are proposing Jime. I paid attention to both my NA '96 and SC '99 and, when at WOT, the tach always reads exactly 6500 RPM when the automtic shifts from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd. Where are you coming up with 6100/6200?
03-15-2006, 08:24 AM
#64
Originally Posted by ptatohed
I'm still a little confused about what you are proposing Jime. I paid attention to both my NA '96 and SC '99 and, when at WOT, the tach always reads exactly 6500 RPM when the automtic shifts from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd. Where are you coming up with 6100/6200?
03-15-2006, 08:33 AM
#66
I'm stock and it does shift at 6000 maybe 6200 on the tach, with your mods its probably revving up to fast for the computer to have an accurate reading maybe? I have no idea how fully modded 5 spds know when to shift if this is true
03-17-2006, 07:36 AM
#68
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:o)
Originally Posted by Jime
The tach is not accurate, mine reads 6500 too. If you hook up an obdII reader or consult you will see that the shifts are approx 6000 and rev limiter at 6500.
Hmmm.. our tachs are not accurate? Are our speedos off too?
So, with your mod, our tachs will read ~7000 when the automatic shifts? Interesting. So what about those with Jim Wolf raised limiters to 7200? When their tach reads 7200, is it really ~6700??
03-17-2006, 07:55 AM
#69
Originally Posted by zander
I'm stock and it does shift at 6000 maybe 6200 on the tach
As for our speedos, if you have the stock wheels/tire sizes they are quite accurate until atleast 100 MPH. BlueC once GPS tested his car and it was dead on.
03-17-2006, 08:23 AM
#70
Originally Posted by ptatohed
Hmmm.. our tachs are not accurate? Are our speedos off too? So, with your mod, our tachs will read ~7000 when the automatic shifts? Interesting. So what about those with Jim Wolf raised limiters to 7200? When their tach reads 7200, is it really ~6700??
So, with your mod, our tachs will read ~7000 when the automatic shifts? Interesting. So what about those with Jim Wolf raised limiters to 7200? When their tach reads 7200, is it really ~6700??Jim Wolf would set the shift point to be accurate not to what your tach says.
With this mod it you can set it to shift whenever you want as long as its below the rev limiter so it will work for raised rev limiters as well.
03-17-2006, 08:55 AM
#71
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Originally Posted by Jime
Not all tachs and not all speedometers read the same. Remember these are somewhat cheap instruments. If you want to know what its really doing then hookup an OBDII reader, S-AFC, Emanage Ultimate, Consult etc then you will get a true reading.
Jim Wolf would set the shift point to be accurate not to what your tach says.
With this mod it you can set it to shift whenever you want as long as its below the rev limiter so it will work for raised rev limiters as well.
Jim Wolf would set the shift point to be accurate not to what your tach says.
With this mod it you can set it to shift whenever you want as long as its below the rev limiter so it will work for raised rev limiters as well.
Sorry, but I'm still confused. [VOICE="Forrest Gump"]Ohhm noooot uh smarart maaan....Jeeeen-e[/VOICE]
So right now when my auto shifts from 1->2 and 2->3 (WOT), I "see" 6500 RPMs. But my fuel cutoff kicks in when I see ~6700. So if my car is really shifting at ~6100, then my fuel cutoff is really at 6300? So if I set your proposed mod to shift at say 6500, you're saying that is a "true" 6500, right? That won't work if my fuel cutoff is at a true 6300. Right? So, if the true shift point and the true rev limit are only 200RPMs apart, all you could possible gain with your proposed mod is a higher 200RPM shift point. No? To me, 200 is a safe margin so I'd actually like to just leave it, if the stock shift point and rev limit are in fact only 200RPM different. I'm missing something.
03-17-2006, 09:26 AM
#72
Originally Posted by ptatohed
Sorry, but I'm still confused. [VOICE="Forrest Gump"]Ohhm noooot uh smarart maaan....Jeeeen-e[/VOICE]
So right now when my auto shifts from 1->2 and 2->3 (WOT), I "see" 6500 RPMs. But my fuel cutoff kicks in when I see ~6700. So if my car is really shifting at ~6100, then my fuel cutoff is really at 6300? So if I set your proposed mod to shift at say 6500, you're saying that is a "true" 6500, right? That won't work if my fuel cutoff is at a true 6300. Right? So, if the true shift point and the true rev limit are only 200RPMs apart, all you could possible gain with your proposed mod is a higher 200RPM shift point. No? To me, 200 is a safe margin so I'd actually like to just leave it, if the stock shift point and rev limit are in fact only 200RPM different. I'm missing something.
So right now when my auto shifts from 1->2 and 2->3 (WOT), I "see" 6500 RPMs. But my fuel cutoff kicks in when I see ~6700. So if my car is really shifting at ~6100, then my fuel cutoff is really at 6300? So if I set your proposed mod to shift at say 6500, you're saying that is a "true" 6500, right? That won't work if my fuel cutoff is at a true 6300. Right? So, if the true shift point and the true rev limit are only 200RPMs apart, all you could possible gain with your proposed mod is a higher 200RPM shift point. No? To me, 200 is a safe margin so I'd actually like to just leave it, if the stock shift point and rev limit are in fact only 200RPM different. I'm missing something.
You also have to realize that this number will change if you don't have the stock tire size and wheel anymore because the trans shifts depending on speed not RPM. The relationship between the two will not be the same anymore. Thats why it needs to be adjustable.
Quoting numbers from the stock tach isn't going to tell you
03-20-2006, 06:51 PM
#73
If your car is stock it seems to have a pretty accurate reading on the tach, I manually shifted my auto today just to see and when i shifted at 6500 it felt like I ran into a wall because it took a second for the transmission to shift, so at ~6550 on the tach is where my fuel cut is. Why did they make the redline and the rev limit in the same place? that makes no sense to me. Any progress yet? Sorry to pester.
03-20-2006, 07:44 PM
#74
I've used a GPS and an OBD scanner, both were slower by 1-2mph@60mph and 2-3mph@70mph compared to the speedo.
Originally Posted by Tatanko
Mine shifts when displaying around 6000, as well...sometimes a little more. I guess my tach must actually be accurate then.
As for our speedos, if you have the stock wheels/tire sizes they are quite accurate until atleast 100 MPH. BlueC once GPS tested his car and it was dead on.
As for our speedos, if you have the stock wheels/tire sizes they are quite accurate until atleast 100 MPH. BlueC once GPS tested his car and it was dead on.
03-22-2006, 08:45 AM
#75
Just a thought, is the speed signal easier to change or is it the same as the rpm signal. If there was a way to get the car to think it was going a little slower then it was it would hold rpms longer correct? I'm guessing this will mess up the speedo, but this mod is probably going to be used mostly at the track, where you don't really need to know how fast you are going. And then you can just switch it off for normal driving. But im guessing throwing on some 13in rims would also trick the car into thinking it would be going a little slower, how much I don't know. I know that the speed sensor can be recalibrated for larger wheels/tires, but i don't know how hard it is compared to adjusting the rpm signal.
03-22-2006, 09:09 AM
#76
Originally Posted by zander
Just a thought, is the speed signal easier to change or is it the same as the rpm signal. If there was a way to get the car to think it was going a little slower then it was it would hold rpms longer correct? I'm guessing this will mess up the speedo, but this mod is probably going to be used mostly at the track, where you don't really need to know how fast you are going. And then you can just switch it off for normal driving. But im guessing throwing on some 13in rims would also trick the car into thinking it would be going a little slower, how much I don't know. I know that the speed sensor can be recalibrated for larger wheels/tires, but i don't know how hard it is compared to adjusting the rpm signal.
I'm still not 100% on what its going to take but I am fairly confident I can do it. I have tried smaller wheels/tires ie 22" slicks which are approx 14% smaller and read 8 mph off at 60 mph and it didn't make a difference in the shift point so there is more than just the tire diam taken into consideration for the shift.
I could go and play some more with the wife's car but I would sooner wait until I get mine going. Its too hard to get at all the wiring etc and I don't want to break something on her car or I am in Caca.
My new converter was shipped by air last fri so should be here soon and I may get in install this weekend. Presently I am just finishing up my fuel cell install.
06-12-2006, 03:32 PM
#78
Just a bit of an update, so far I have spent approx $500 and still don't have a working solution. However I am close and will have a definitive answer within the next couple of weeks if its either a go.
If I get it working it will only take another couple of weeks to get some built and I have the resources to make it happen. No price yet, depends on the parts, labor etc when a final solution is achieved.
When I get it working I will post some graphs etc from Emanage Ultimate showing some different shift points as well as the install and how to adjust RPM limits etc.
If I get it working it will only take another couple of weeks to get some built and I have the resources to make it happen. No price yet, depends on the parts, labor etc when a final solution is achieved.
When I get it working I will post some graphs etc from Emanage Ultimate showing some different shift points as well as the install and how to adjust RPM limits etc.
06-14-2006, 10:51 PM
#79
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Originally Posted by Jime
Just a bit of an update, so far I have spent approx $500 and still don't have a working solution. However I am close and will have a definitive answer within the next couple of weeks if its either a go.
If I get it working it will only take another couple of weeks to get some built and I have the resources to make it happen. No price yet, depends on the parts, labor etc when a final solution is achieved.
When I get it working I will post some graphs etc from Emanage Ultimate showing some different shift points as well as the install and how to adjust RPM limits etc.
If I get it working it will only take another couple of weeks to get some built and I have the resources to make it happen. No price yet, depends on the parts, labor etc when a final solution is achieved.
When I get it working I will post some graphs etc from Emanage Ultimate showing some different shift points as well as the install and how to adjust RPM limits etc.
