ATF fluid in a 5speed?
12-17-2005, 02:22 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: RHODE ISLAND
Posts: 355
ATF fluid in a 5speed?
I was wondering if puttin automatic transmission fluid in my 98 would help it out. I only say this because i hear that new atf fluid is automatic and manuel transmission friendly. My 98 is a 5 speed and has 104k but it doesnt shift into second or third smoothly. ATF fluid is thiner so i thought it might help it shift. Wut do u guys think or am i crazy?
12-17-2005, 03:51 PM
#3
Member who somehow became The President of The SE-L Club
iTrader: (19)
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 16,033
Originally Posted by BlackMax1992SE
My 98 is a 5 speed and has 104k but it doesnt shift into second or third smoothly.
You can't use ATF in your 5 speed tranny.
12-17-2005, 07:31 PM
#6
Originally Posted by MaximaSE96
ATF in 5spd = BAD STUFF ABOUT TO HAPPEN
12-17-2005, 08:15 PM
#7
because thats BMW...thats the way their manual gearboxes were designed...ours were designed to run with gear oil.....i kow other companies use atf as well and some use gear oils....and they obviously do it for a reason...so go ahead put ATF in ur Nissan Maxima 5spd and come them come posting saying ..."Problems with my 5spd Please Help"...then i ask did u put ATF in it...u say yes ...i say TOLD YA SO.....now i am not trying to be a di(k...but if the owners manual says use MT90 or whatever i forget the exact wording USE IT....and besides when i had my rebuild done on my 91 5spd the tranny place said use gear oil and not ATF because it will ruin the tranny because it wasnt designed to use ATF
12-17-2005, 08:40 PM
#8
Originally Posted by MaximaSE96
because thats BMW...thats the way their manual gearboxes were designed...ours were designed to run with gear oil.....i kow other companies use atf as well and some use gear oils....and they obviously do it for a reason...so go ahead put ATF in ur Nissan Maxima 5spd and come them come posting saying ..."Problems with my 5spd Please Help"...then i ask did u put ATF in it...u say yes ...i say TOLD YA SO.....now i am not trying to be a di(k...but if the owners manual says use MT90 or whatever i forget the exact wording USE IT....and besides when i had my rebuild done on my 91 5spd the tranny place said use gear oil and not ATF because it will ruin the tranny because it wasnt designed to use ATF
12-18-2005, 06:35 AM
#10
Member who somehow became The President of The SE-L Club
iTrader: (19)
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 16,033
Originally Posted by nismology
the owners manual says nothing about MT-90
"Manual transmission grear oil API GL-4, Viscosity SAE 80W-90 only"
BMW fluids are quite different then most other cars on the road. They use lifetime fluids in their transmissions. They require no maintenance, my automatic E46 doesn't even have a dip stick. They are designed completely different then our Nissans.
FYI - Some BMW info.
Oil changes - every 15,000 miles, the thing holds 10 quarts.
Auto tranny - maintenance free, lifetime fluid. No dip stick, no drain, the unit is sealed.
Power steering - lifetime fluid
Rear Diff - 100,000 mile service, lifetime fluid, just check the level.
Fuel Filter - 100,000 miles, the fuel pressure regulator is built into the filter
General tune up - 100,000 miles
There is no PCV system, the BMW engine runs with a vacuum drawn on the crank case. If the engine develops an oil leak, it doesn't idle right because the crank case wount hold a vacuum while it's running. The BMW is a very interesting machine to own. The drivetrane is engineered quite differently then most cars on the road.
12-18-2005, 08:30 AM
#11
Originally Posted by nismology
You're still assuming things and passing them off as fact. And i'm pretty sure the owners manual says nothing about MT-90 since it's a type of gear oil made by Redline.
12-18-2005, 09:25 AM
#12
Originally Posted by njmaxseltd
Owners manual says......
"Manual transmission grear oil API GL-4, Viscosity SAE 80W-90 only"
"Manual transmission grear oil API GL-4, Viscosity SAE 80W-90 only"
BMW fluids are quite different then most other cars on the road. They use lifetime fluids in their transmissions. They require no maintenance, my automatic E46 doesn't even have a dip stick. They are designed completely different then our Nissans.
FYI - Some BMW info.
Oil changes - every 15,000 miles, the thing holds 10 quarts.
Auto tranny - maintenance free, lifetime fluid. No dip stick, no drain, the unit is sealed.
Power steering - lifetime fluid
Rear Diff - 100,000 mile service, lifetime fluid, just check the level.
Fuel Filter - 100,000 miles, the fuel pressure regulator is built into the filter
General tune up - 100,000 miles
There is no PCV system, the BMW engine runs with a vacuum drawn on the crank case. If the engine develops an oil leak, it doesn't idle right because the crank case wount hold a vacuum while it's running. The BMW is a very interesting machine to own. The drivetrane is engineered quite differently then most cars on the road.
FYI - Some BMW info.
Oil changes - every 15,000 miles, the thing holds 10 quarts.
Auto tranny - maintenance free, lifetime fluid. No dip stick, no drain, the unit is sealed.
Power steering - lifetime fluid
Rear Diff - 100,000 mile service, lifetime fluid, just check the level.
Fuel Filter - 100,000 miles, the fuel pressure regulator is built into the filter
General tune up - 100,000 miles
There is no PCV system, the BMW engine runs with a vacuum drawn on the crank case. If the engine develops an oil leak, it doesn't idle right because the crank case wount hold a vacuum while it's running. The BMW is a very interesting machine to own. The drivetrane is engineered quite differently then most cars on the road.
12-18-2005, 12:47 PM
#14
as MaximaSE96 said, the nissan transmission is designed for the thicker 90 weight oil. this means that the clearances between the parts are bigger in order to allow the thicker oil to get inbetween the pieces. oil adds a cushioning effect. a lot of people know that if you have worn parts, put in a thicker oil. putting ATF into a nissan tranny will not fill the clearances sufficiently and the transmission would be operating with a lot of loose play in it as if there was lots and lots of wear.
12-18-2005, 01:15 PM
#15
12-18-2005, 04:33 PM
#16
Originally Posted by nismology
12-18-2005, 05:43 PM
#17
Originally Posted by MaximaSE96
but again thats the 6 speed transmission...its internally totally different than our 5 spds...designed differently...and who knows how long that tranny will last using ATF...sure if it may be smoother and easier to shift but it doesnt mean over a extended amount of time it wont cause it harm...obviously ATF has lubricating abilities so u wont notice it right away but give it time
And ATF causes harm to which parts of the transmission exactly?
12-18-2005, 07:46 PM
#18
ok good point...its still not proven that it wont harm ur tranny.....maybe i was wrong in saying it would be bad things to happen....but i would rather say that then say SURE ITS GREAT....then he comes back in 6 months needing a rebuild....i am just saying in my opinion with a mechanical engineering backround i dont see it being the best thing for the car...sure it will feel good at first with smooth shifting but in the long haul i dont think it will last
12-19-2005, 08:13 AM
#19
My point is this...instead of people saying "it's gonna trash your tranny" you all should be saying "let's see what happens" because there is no proof of the long-term effects of ATF in a manual tranny either way.
12-19-2005, 09:25 AM
#20
Let's use a little logic and some facts to draw some conclusions.
ATF is a very good lubricant, otherwise it wouldn't be used in auto trannies. It is less viscous than gear oil so that it can easily travel through the small passageways and channels in the valve body.
Therefore, ATF will work in a manual transmission simply because it will indeed lubricate the gears and bearings under normal circumstances, and the lowered viscosity will reduce drivetrain losses.
However, it may not be the optimal viscosity for smooth shifting, and under severe loading and elevated temperatures the viscosity may not be sufficient to prevent surface to surface contact at the gear teeth. This is not as bad as it may sound, though, because there is very little sliding contact at gear teeth interfaces (if the gear teeth have been cut as involute surfaces).
ATF is a very good lubricant, otherwise it wouldn't be used in auto trannies. It is less viscous than gear oil so that it can easily travel through the small passageways and channels in the valve body.
Therefore, ATF will work in a manual transmission simply because it will indeed lubricate the gears and bearings under normal circumstances, and the lowered viscosity will reduce drivetrain losses.
However, it may not be the optimal viscosity for smooth shifting, and under severe loading and elevated temperatures the viscosity may not be sufficient to prevent surface to surface contact at the gear teeth. This is not as bad as it may sound, though, because there is very little sliding contact at gear teeth interfaces (if the gear teeth have been cut as involute surfaces).
12-19-2005, 09:51 AM
#21
like i said before maybe i was wrong in simply stating Bad things would happen....but again i dont want to go off saying sure it wont hurt it.....hell ill be a guinea pig if one of u wants to buy me a brand new tranny if/when my would blow up.....simply stated....just use what the Engineers and designers say to use in the owners manual...to me in my opinion its ur safest bet.....and again i have been proven wrong in the past and i wont have a problem admitting it
12-19-2005, 11:46 AM
#22
Originally Posted by Stephen Max
However, it may not be the optimal viscosity for smooth shifting, and under severe loading and elevated temperatures the viscosity may not be sufficient to prevent surface to surface contact at the gear teeth. This is not as bad as it may sound, though, because there is very little sliding contact at gear teeth interfaces (if the gear teeth have been cut as involute surfaces).
+1 to everything else.
12-19-2005, 11:59 AM
#23
hmm.....why not put ATF in your motor?
Use gear oil for manual trannies, and ATF for autos. There's absolutely no reason to do otherwise. I'm speaking only for maximas, as other cars have different fluid ('87 hondas have motor oil in their trannies, etc.)
-Freddy
Use gear oil for manual trannies, and ATF for autos. There's absolutely no reason to do otherwise. I'm speaking only for maximas, as other cars have different fluid ('87 hondas have motor oil in their trannies, etc.)
-Freddy
12-19-2005, 12:03 PM
#24
Originally Posted by tavarish
hmm.....why not put ATF in your motor?
Use gear oil for manual trannies, and ATF for autos. There's absolutely no reason to do otherwise. I'm speaking only for maximas, as other cars have different fluid ('87 hondas have motor oil in their trannies, etc.)
-Freddy
Use gear oil for manual trannies, and ATF for autos. There's absolutely no reason to do otherwise. I'm speaking only for maximas, as other cars have different fluid ('87 hondas have motor oil in their trannies, etc.)
-Freddy
12-19-2005, 12:35 PM
#25
Originally Posted by nismology
Your post is invalid. If you can't say exactly why ATF is bad for our transmissions please don't post.
The Nissan manual tells me to use gear oil ONLY, thats what I use, just like using Dexron-III in the auto trannies.
-Freddy
12-19-2005, 12:38 PM
#26
Originally Posted by tavarish
then let's start an initiative, If you want to be the first to put ATF in your tranny, go ahead. Tell us the effects in 6 months.
-Freddy
-Freddy
See post #15...
12-19-2005, 12:57 PM
#27
Originally Posted by BlackMax1992SE
I was wondering if puttin automatic transmission fluid in my 98 would help it out. I only say this because i hear that new atf fluid is automatic and manuel transmission friendly. My 98 is a 5 speed and has 104k but it doesnt shift into second or third smoothly. ATF fluid is thiner so i thought it might help it shift. Wut do u guys think or am i crazy?
12-19-2005, 01:31 PM
#29
Originally Posted by nismology
You're still assuming things and passing them off as fact. And i'm pretty sure the owners manual says nothing about MT-90 since it's a type of gear oil made by Redline.
12-19-2005, 03:06 PM
#30
Originally Posted by Cutler
same weight as the stock oil, just better ingredients. You lose....
I was saying the owner's manual says nothing about Redline MT-90 specifically the same way it doesn't recommend Mobil 1 or Castrol GTX. If you'd read the post i quoted you would understand the context. Nice try...
Originally Posted by MaximaSE96
because thats BMW...thats the way their manual gearboxes were designed...ours were designed to run with gear oil.....i kow other companies use atf as well and some use gear oils....and they obviously do it for a reason...so go ahead put ATF in ur Nissan Maxima 5spd and come them come posting saying ..."Problems with my 5spd Please Help"...then i ask did u put ATF in it...u say yes ...i say TOLD YA SO.....now i am not trying to be a di(k...but if the owners manual says use MT90 or whatever i forget the exact wording USE IT....and besides when i had my rebuild done on my 91 5spd the tranny place said use gear oil and not ATF because it will ruin the tranny because it wasnt designed to use ATF
12-19-2005, 03:09 PM
#31
Originally Posted by MaximaSE96
again after 3 posts no else has responded to it....
12-19-2005, 04:43 PM
#34
This thread, for some reasons, has sparked a lot of argument... but seriously... is anyone here actually considering running ATF in their manual? Cause that just sounds stupid... it's way too thin... and the transmission is designed to run thicker oil that will coat the gears and protect them (synchros in particular need the thicker oil)
So let the arguing continue I guess...
So let the arguing continue I guess...
12-19-2005, 04:58 PM
#35
Donating Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 19
Just to throw a possible answer to this question I have heard a totally different reason of why NOT to run ATF in your 5-spd and it doesnt concern weight of the lubrication. One of my fellow friends said that most 5-spd trannies that use gear oil have softer metals in the tranny and using ATF will act corrosive and kill the life of your tranny. So you may have a better lube feel but the side effect is that your tranny is slowly corriding inside. I honesty don't know if this is true but its just something I have been told by an insightful friend........Thanks
12-19-2005, 05:30 PM
#36
Originally Posted by MaximumCore
Just to throw a possible answer to this question I have heard a totally different reason of why NOT to run ATF in your 5-spd and it doesnt concern weight of the lubrication. One of my fellow friends said that most 5-spd trannies that use gear oil have softer metals in the tranny and using ATF will act corrosive and kill the life of your tranny. So you may have a better lube feel but the side effect is that your tranny is slowly corriding inside. I honesty don't know if this is true but its just something I have been told by an insightful friend........Thanks
12-19-2005, 05:47 PM
#38
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: RHODE ISLAND
Posts: 355
Look at what I started
I dont plan on putting ATF in my tranny, just a thought, i mean if it was better to be running atf in manual transmissions then there would be no such thing as gear oil. Anyway, im gona drain my fluid and add some fresh gear oil and see if my shifting is any smoother
I dont plan on putting ATF in my tranny, just a thought, i mean if it was better to be running atf in manual transmissions then there would be no such thing as gear oil. Anyway, im gona drain my fluid and add some fresh gear oil and see if my shifting is any smoother
12-19-2005, 09:47 PM
#39
ok, if no one is going to try this in their 4TH GEN 5 SPD, then I can consider their case closed. Unless someone has results, anything anyone says is pure speculation. I say leave the fluids to their intended purposes. ATF Dexron-III for auto trannies, GL-4 gear oil for manual trannies. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
12-20-2005, 05:28 AM
#40
Originally Posted by tavarish
hmm.....why not put ATF in your motor?
Use gear oil for manual trannies, and ATF for autos. There's absolutely no reason to do otherwise. I'm speaking only for maximas, as other cars have different fluid ('87 hondas have motor oil in their trannies, etc.)
-Freddy
Use gear oil for manual trannies, and ATF for autos. There's absolutely no reason to do otherwise. I'm speaking only for maximas, as other cars have different fluid ('87 hondas have motor oil in their trannies, etc.)
-Freddy
It is not uncommon for people to put a quart of ATF in their crankcase. It has a much higher detergent content than motor oil and can clean out a gunked up engine pretty effectively. The reason you don't want to run only ATF in your engine is because it can't handle high engine temperatures as well as engine oil. Manual trannies run at much cooler temps, though.
There's a lot of people in this thread that are saying just don't do it without giving a reason why (I guess because they don't know why). Point taken, but it is educational to talk about exactly why you shouldn't do it, and under what circumstances it might be okay.