Many people on the board feel the CAI outperforms the Stillen Intake. Well here's the truth. I'm sure Cheston has something to add to this as well.

CAI Advantages:
Awesome, deep sound
Good under hood looks
Sounds better to tell people you have a Cold Air Intake
Better Power from 3000-4500

Stillen Advantages:
Easier Install
Don't need to cut hole in car
Better power off the line to about 3000
Better power from 4500 to redline
Incredible power gains (at least 5 WHP, if not more) from 5500 to 6500.

The Stillen really sounds a lot more 4banger Civic like, but all in all this baby cooks in the upper power band.

 

Do you have a high-pitch whistle when first engaging the gas?

 

Does anyone have dyno charts showing the PRCAI and the stillen intake as the only mods? i'd like to see some before i go spending my money.

 

NealOC we do have dyno's of VERY similar setups running CAI vs Stillen POP. However, the only problem was the Stillen was running on a 95 (Nabil's) and the CAI was running on a 97 (Cheston's). From what we gathered the CAI really started dropping off power after 5,000 RPM.

http://63.204.172.66/maxima/uprd%201.jpg

compare the blue line with the red line. The blue line is Stillen, red is CAI. The black is for the fortunate 95/96 drivers who get the GeForce Upgrade (well worth it). Now these differences could be from the difference in model years, but both Cheston and I have gone from CAI to Stillen, and we both agree that the top end is dramatically improved now.

Also, Cheston and Nabil raced on the freeway, and I witnessed an almost dead even race. The last time they raced, same exact setups except Cheston was running CAI, Nabil pulled away on the top end. So even Nabil agrees now that the Stillen is the way to go. However, I still believe the CAI makes more power in the mid-range.

That's the best I can do now!

 

So, Brian.. i guess this means you're keeping it right? Yer not permanently borrowing the thing? J/Playin.. call me thurs or after to pickup the bracket if you need it.

 

Ok OgreDave. Yeah I'll take this thing off of yah. I leave for Vegas on Friday, and it's kind of hectic around here. So I might get it from you after I get back (Sunday).

Thanks.

 

can you use the Geforce upgrade with a SC?

 

GeForce claims you can, but I certainly wouldn't recommend it.

 

This chart means nothing in this comparison. I'm not saying that the CAI or SI makes more or less, but you can't use two different cars for a comparison of two different parts. Especially cars from two different model years. The intakes of the 96's have a different setup than the 97+'s, as well as different ECU's and emissions. A dyno chart for a 96 has a different curve than a 97. There is no constant for this chart, it only shows the difference that the car made w/ and w/o the GForce ECU. If someone dyno'd w/ the CAI, then removed and placed on the SI (on the same car, same dyno, same day, same conditions), then that would be a baseline, and then do this for both models years...

 

Damn 5WHP. That's is a lot from an intake.

 

I can only assume that the jwt pop charger also provides the same performance as the stillen intake. Also what about weapon r. Did aem ever make that cai for the max. I was gonna go for a cai but cutting a hole for more noise just aint for me.

 

Sure you can.. if you retune it. Being auto & w/o a 2nd[beater] car .. i chose to put mine up for sale.

Good thing i still have my stock ecu...

 

2nd try.. i could swear i posted a reply to this.. but its nowhere to be found..

Np -blah blah blah- hit me up when yer back -blah blah blah- .. its finals week -wah wah wah-?

Oh yah, i wanna ride in yer car sometime (sound familiar?) .. just wanna see how one of the faster NA 4th gen's feels.. catch you later

 

Going to Vegas Brian?

If ya want to hang and go the street races if ya have time drop me a line.

You bringing the MAx?


gumby510@zdnetmail.com


Rob

 

gumby sending you an email!

 

i wanted the CAI and i thought it would give better performance but i didn't want to cut a hole in the car, glad i got the STILLEN.

 

i got a 96 max and i cant decide what to get...i want some performance and a litle sound..what ya guys think?

 

brian's claim is completely based on the 'butt dyno' which we all know fools us on a daily basis. To really see the difference, someone needs to go a step further and go to the dyno with one of each and run, swap intakes(fairly simple), then run again and compare curves. Then head down to the local strip and do the same, this time comparing time slips. this is truly the only way we will ever know. until then, "it's all about the he said she said bull####!"

 

the cai cant breath on the fwy.
im going to get an maf adapter soon to see any difference in 1/4 time with my cai and a just a plain intake

 

Man...read Brian's first post in this thread...it should be obvious.

 

Yup. ButtDyno's are nice, but can be inaccurate. When I 1st put my CAI on, my butt dyno told me that the CAI is opening up my VQ like crazy! BrianV is in a perfect position to do the dyno test comparisons between the Stillen intake and CAI. He should go for it and settle this debate once and for all! Butt dyno measurements won't do it in my book.

I have to concede though, that my observations of the CAI would tend to agree with BrianV on the top end. The CAI does get weaker up top. I'm going to investigate replacing my CAI filter with one from a POP charger with velocity stack and the adaptor. Hopefully that will increase the top end of the CAI somewhat.

DW

 

You cant expect the CAI to have as much top-end power as the Stillen intake. Remember, that at WOT (unless on a dyno) there's plenty of air rushing into the engine bay. With this rush of air you almost cancel the need for a CAI. The CAI creates a longer path for air to enter the engine thus restricting air intake slightly more than the Stillen intake @ WOT. Its only right that the Stillen intake outperform a CAI at WOT. There are trade offs with either setup. If you're looking for top end I'm sure the Stillen intake makes more than CAI. And for the lower part of the power band (low end to mid-range) I would think that the CAI has an advantage.

Brian, if you're reading this and you have both intakes please dyno each and 1/4 track test each. Put and end to this debate to Bill99GXE could make yet another "sticky".
By the way it would be cool if while you're conducting the tests above to try adding a Stillen intake to the end of the CAI and see the results then. I wonder if that velocity stack would make a big difference that far from the MAF. This test would be a great resource to the board, if you have the time and parts please conduct this test for us all.

 

unless you are dyno'n the CAI with a big *** fan.. of course the Hot Air intake is going to have the advantage.. but of course everytime i ask this .. THEY avoid the question of the fan..

next.. sure the Stillen is going to feel faster when the car is in a Hot Environment.. doh.. no cold air.. so if you live in a dessert or in hot climate and you are not getting cold air into your engine.. yeah.. the Stillen intake is going to give you great performance..

but bring that Stillen intake to a nice cold fall night at the track in Etown.. and a Cold Air Intake.. and you will see who gets whoopped...

 

The fan at the dyno is going to help the Stillen intake (it will be breathing in the warm/hot air from the engine bay without the fan, the CAI will be breathing in room temperature air). In theory, the CAI should shine every where through the power range, with the possible exception of top end. At the 'track', the car will be sitting there, inhaling warm engine air with the Stillen intake, which should effect performance off the line. I don't think that the top end advantage would necessarily make up for it over a CAI advantages down low and in the mid range to 'beat' it. Remember, all of this is theory until someone with both goes out and does it...

 

Cheston vs Nabil.. they had dynos, but they werent as precise as a chemistry experiment.. variables werent set in stone.

But, both agree that SI makes more power in topend..

As for ppl who ask for dynos on a car .. swapping between .. yah its real easy to ask when its not your money

 

I've been waiting to see the results from Nabil/Cheston's rematch since Cheston switched over to the SI. That's the only "concrete" evidence we have for now. I've always believed Nabil just has a strong running Max, regardles of the intake.
If were proven the CAI makes more power down low and the SI up top, I'll stick with my CAI. I HAVE to be pulling in cooler air sitting at a light on a hot summer day (here in Florida, that's the majority of the year) than with the SI.

C'mon fellas...take it up to sixty in third and let it rip!

Terry
__________________________________________________ _________
98 SE/ 5 Speed/ CAI/ UDP/ Stillen Y Pipe/ RT cat/ Courtesy B Pipe/ Stock Muffler
FSTB/ Clear front bumper lenses/ Clear Tails

14.73 @94.1

 

The dyno charts in question hold no water for this issue. There are no constants, and they are basing their opinions (I think opinion is key word at this point) off of butt dynos. Did Nabil swap intakes on his car? Or is he basing his comments off of what Cheston did/said or their race? Cheston apparently has both, as does the originator of this post. They both certainly have the ability to test this out next time they go dyno. Once you have the CAI installed it is very easy to swap out the pipe and put the filter right on the MAF. As for asking someone for a dyno for proof, it's up to the person who made the changes to put their money where their mouth is. Everyone is basing their descion to go with a certain intake over another off of a dyno chart that shows two different cars, two different model years testing out the results of an ECU upgrade, and other people's butt dyno's (not to mention the folks who hear someone else's opinion and take is as fact, then speak it as fact, even though they have never experienced it). Until someone backs up what their butt dyno is telling them with documented proof (on the same car)...

 

Funny how this thread was started to end the debate. . . .

DW

 

Haven't seen anyone go from Stillen -> CAI and say stuff about high end power, have you?

The whole thing about this argument is that ppl use the "not enuff proof" problem with the SI being better. As for the CAI, hey, its just better? Or its the same? If its the same.. why not save money?

Anyways, if Brian / Cheston / Nabil / whoever are happy with it, why rain on their parade..

I've got a CAI now, btw.

 

I can't promise when, but one day this summer I would like to make 2 passes at the track with each setup on my very consistent auto. on the same evening. I will not do the dyno test unless someone wants to fund it(too much$$). Unfortunately its probably the dyno that will show the top end hp as opposed to the track, but for me, it's all about the 0-60.
Here's the catch, I need someone in Houston with a Jim Wolff or Stillen intake to go to the track with me that day as I will need to borrow their intake for two passes. Swapping in a SI on a car with CAI already on is a snap, just takes a few minutes.

 

ATTN: Adding a Stillen/Velocity Stack to the CAI won't do anything. The Velocity Stack only works straighting air in short distances. Straightening it out before the several bends in the pipe won't do anything.

Ok about my butt dyno. I find my butt dyno to be pretty damn accurate, but my post had other evidence. Cheston and Nabil have always gone head to head in racing. Nabil has always pulled away on the top end. However, after Cheston did the swap they were close to dead even. If you have seen the fans that Stillen uses at their dyno you'll see that it won't give an advantage to any car. It'll simply keep the radiator cooler.

Believe me if you want. Yes, the CAI does make more mid-range power, but I am 99% positive that the Stillen/Velocity Stack is making a significant increase in power above 5,000 RPM.

I don't over-exaggerate things. I try to give the most honest opinions to member's on this board. What does it matter whether or not the Stillen or CAI makes more power. I have both pieces here, if I didn't think the Stillen made more power I wouldn't make this post, and I'd install the CAI again. And, no it's not because I just installed something and I'm paying more attention. I surely felt a difference. I'll see if I can get Cheston to post on this topic.

Also, my best 1/4 mile time was run on the BrianV intake system (as some member's call it). My fastest time on the CAI was 15.2. It was about 5-10 degrees warmer when I ran with the CAI, and 3 months later. Now it was a different track, and I felt their timing equipment was off. However, I'm not advocating get the Stillen. The CAI does make more mid-end power, but the Stillen makes more top end power. When racing you're in the upper-power band for longer so I'm choosing the Stillen. Not to mention it seems the gains made up top with the Stillen are greater than the gains generated in the midrange by the CAI.

Peace!

 

Ok to answer the post right above mine.

In the auto tranny you'll spend more time in the midrange power band than us 5spds will, so the CAI will shine more on the auto than the Stillen will. However, still it's worth doing!

Also, let's forget about the dyno's. First of all, dyno's conducted are done during different temperatures, the car is not rolling, different mileage on the car when running, different engine temperatures, etc.

I thought I had stated a comment that has some proof and truth in it. This is witnessed with my very own eyes, as long as several other's eyes. Cheston and Nabil have always raced head to head from about 40-100+ (sometimes close to 120). Nabil has always managed to pull 3-4 lengths on Cheston on these spirts. Now both of their cars were in the exact same condition as they always have been except Cheston went to the Stillen Intake (well put the CF hood on too, but the saved 30lbs can't make that big of a difference, not to mention he had tools and a tent in his trunk which cancels out the weigh savings). Anyways these two ran and at 120 Nabil was only 1/4 to 1/2 a length in front of him.

Now when we all talked Nabil didn't say anything like, "Well I missed a shift. My car is low on gas. My car needs an oil change." He didn't say anything like that instead he said, "Well that pretty much says the Stillen intake has way better top-end performance." Cheston agrees as well as I do. If you don't want to take our advice, than go buy the CAI. In fact I'll sell you mine. If you think the CAI is better than so be it, buy mine. I'm just looking out for the interest of the maxima community.

Also, in my original post I stated I liked the looks and sound of the CAI better. If I honestly didn't feel that there were substantial gains, than I would've definately put the CAI back in.

Peace - I'm out!

 

do you really expect people to believe that a stillen hi flow (hot air basically) intalke has more power than a CAI? what are you smoking and where can i get some? okay dude, no offense but anyone who thinks a car runs faster in any way, shape, or form with hot air than cold is smoking crack... nate

 

Ok first of all obviously you don't know anything about the 4 stroke cycle. Colder air is denser. The denser the air the more powerful the explosion. However, this is only a little more power. The Velocity Stack Short Intake has a VERY straight air flow. The straighter the air, the smoother. The smoother the air, the faster the air. The faster the air the more air gets into the engine. The reason we put intake systems in our cars is to increase airflow. The CAI, although it does bring colder air into the engine (it's only marginally colder), but it has to go through 4 times the length from the filter to the throttle body. In this process it goes through several turns and twists. These turns and twists create resonance which makes the air very choppy and unsmooth. The problem we're seeing with the CAI is that under WOT in the upper range it just can't get ENOUGH air to the engine. That's why it feels like your engine is leaning out after 5,000-5,500 RPM. The car reduces the fuel mixture because the MAF detects less air.

Here's an analogy:

If you just ran a 26 mile marathon and were REALLY short on air, and you were breathing all heavily would you rather:

A) Have real nice quality, crystal clear, mountain like air but in a real small quantity. Like they hook you up to an oxygen mask but they only give you limited amount of air to breate in per breath. Thus, you're getting oxygen, and it's great quality, but it's not enough for you to overcome your hyperventilating.

-OR-

B) You get all the air in the world but it's smoggy like in LA. You quickly overcome the hyperventilating.

So your engine is getting nice cool air, but at least my engine is getting enough air.

 

I currently experimenting with intakes. I use to have the HKS intake (POP style) then I went with the Poorman's CAI. Now I've pulled off the top portion of the airbox, intake the HKS intake, but I've left all the stock and Poorman's intake plumbing in to get as much cool air around the filter. I also made a heat shield. Honestly, my motor feels "looser" and does feel like it pulls harder after 5000rpms than before.

DO I think the Stillen intake accounted for Cheston being able to keep up with Nabil? Not really. I don't think just simply swapping intakes is going to make that much of a difference. 3-4 cars is huge.

As for the heat issues. I think the POP intakes should have as much cool air as possible under the hood. It gets hot under there and will slow you down if you can't cool it down some. HOWEVER, in the summer, all cars are slower. The air 0-2 feet off the pavement can be as hot as 130-140 degrees. ALSO, once the intake manifold and TB heat soak, having a CAI doesn't make much of a difference. The manifold can get insanely hot.

At the track, with a cool down, I think the POP style will be quicker. Make a heatshield.


Dave

 

Dave-
Initially I thought so too, so I switched over from the CAI. My car lost 0.2-0.3 seconds JUST in the 1st 1/8th! I switched back to the CAI, and guess what? I gained those 0.2-03 seconds in the 1/8th back. I could never run 14.3-14.5 (like I can do consistently with the CAI) with the open, underhood type filter. In fact, I was barely hitting 14.9's with it!

But, on a dyno, the 2 setups tested out within 1 hp of each other! Go figure! That, coupled with my 1/4 mile runs, indicates to me that there are are some significant changes to how the CAI is performing when at speed that I didnt see with the underhood style intake.

 

That resonance is INCREASING air flow. When the resonance point of the intake pipe is reached (it is tuned so to speak), airflow is increased. This is the same principle used in designing intake manifolds. How do you think the 5th gen makes so much more power when the intake manifold flap changes over? It effectively changes the runner length, and thus the "tuned" rpm, thus the torque increases. I also suspect this effect is increased whent he car is moving at higher speeds. (I base this on my quarter mile results, versus dyno results.)

 

This threat is VERY interesting... I'm about to do the BrianV intake and I can wait to see the results over the stock intake.

DaveB >> How did you make your custom heat sheild? got any pics?

 

anyone know where I can buy a intake tube for 97 se?

 

anyone wanna buy a Place Racing CAI? i've had it for about 4 months. i'm getting the stillen supercharger (finally!) and it wont work with it, so i have to sell it... bought from cattman for $265, have everything. sell for $140. (cattman now sells for $235, of couse i bought it it was more....i hate that!)