Mizter6

ok thru this who thing how can this be a RAM intake system because the entrance for the air to go into is right at where the cover of the hood is so in a sense this isnt a ram air system.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Ram Air is

Apparition

iTrader: (5)

this is very true.. kinda like ram top-mount vs front-mount.. F-M FTW!

DR-Max

iTrader: (3)

My ram-air has yours beat... recognize!!!


Plus y-pipe, high flow cat, b-pipe, and magnaflow street series FTW!

dr-rjp

iTrader: (4)

It might (even though it is NOT a modded stock set-up, which is the subject of my thread ) but, being down that low to the roadway, when it rains or when you meet a nice, deep puddle, then you're back to drawing in hot air through the bypass (you do have one, I hope), while waiting for your outboard filter to dry out.

Oh, I forgot: it never rains in SO. CAL. ;-)

At least, I never have to worry about water going into my filter.

It certainly makes yours a true CAI, by definition. However, how much "air" you can actually "ram" given that you had to snake the piping from your filter to the intake..what with all the twists and bends in it, ne c'est pas?

DR-Max

iTrader: (3)

I got that taken care of. And when its raining hard out, usually temps are not as high as when its a real hot dry day. The probability of me driving for an extended amount of time in the rain is very slim.



I had the charge pipe custom made, many of the bends and twists have been reduced for better flow. I should have taken a pic of it when it was out of the car but its too late now, its too much hassle to remove it.

dr-rjp

iTrader: (4)

Any chance that you could post a few pics of the engine bay just so that I can get an idea of what parts of it looks like??

dr-rjp

iTrader: (4)

I've added a mod to the stock intake that helps to redirect incoming air into the scoop. It looks positively ridiculous, but the darn thing actually works.

It consists of the bottom of a short, rectangular storage container (made of plastic) with one end cut off and attached via good old duct tape to the bottom of the scoop. When air enters the grill, it hits the box and flows upwards into the scoop.

I've tested it with a leaf blower positioned in front of the grill (about two feet away), and a digital anemometer mounted inside the top of the air box directly in front of the opening to the MAF. I took air velocity readings with the plastic box off (stock condition) and with the plastic box on. Here are the results:

Stock condition: 11.6 mph
Box condition: 13.3 mph

That is a 15% increase in air flow.

However, I'm not sure about the correspondence between outside air velocity and inside air box velocity at a constant vehicle speed, but I plan on testing it out on the road this weekend.

On a subjective note, I can really feel the difference. In fact, when I felt a sudden change in performance after coming off the highway, I wondered if my "scoop aid" had fallen off. Sure enough, when I popped the hood, the plastic box was hanging literally by a thread. That is why I added additional duct tape to it.

I am working on something a bit more elegant and reliable than a jerryrigged plastic box, but at least the concept works.

If you're wondering what would happen if I drove though a rainstorm, I can answer that. We had a sudden downpour last week -- common for Florida -- and I pulled the car over to check the setup to see if any water had entered the scoop. Because of its design, the water simply splashed against the box and went sideways. The opening to the scoop was perfectly dry, and so was the inside of the air box and filter.

Here is what my setup looks like:



===============================

99grnmaxgxe

iTrader: (11)

Wow that's neat, there are no clearance issues with the grille or hood?

97BlackSEGold

iTrader: (1)

very interesting, i like the techinical approach to creating a better flowing intake setup

dr-rjp

iTrader: (4)

None. The grill & hood, though, bend the box edges a little when you close it.

BEJAY1

iTrader: (19)

That's a good idea but the anemometer only shows a partial picture. MAF readings or pressure before the TB using a manometer should be the next step. Just match both speed and RPM's when doing comparisons.

95bluse

iTrader: (1)

Am I to assume that you've "gone back" to a stock intake with the exception of the blocked off elbow? You still have the stock airbox/resonator/ etc?

dr-rjp

iTrader: (4)

You are correct (with the exception of a non-stock, K&N filter). However, I have another stock intake on which I am testing out additional modifications. For example, I have a thin sheet of flexible plastic that I cut into two pieces to fit the top and bottom of the stock box; i.e., they are curved to fit inside the stock box so as to act like a funnel.

The stock box has all of these ridges inside, and I believe that they cause turbulence and drag on the airflow. I am not sure whether the Nissan designers used this waffle design to make the box stronger without increasing its mass (which it definitely does), or to intentionally affect the air flow. Or both.

My thinking is that a smoother, curved surface will increase the airflow to the throttle and result in some kind of measurable change in response (whether good or bad). Unlike the curvature of the stock box bottom, the top is basically a plain, old box with nothing really to direct the air flow into the throttle.

The other change I made was to remove the curved area at the front of the scoop (by cutting a circle through the bottom) and to attach a short plastic pipe to act as another air source. I am also trying it without the short pipe and the hole simply covered over.

Because of space limitations, the curved area is there to act as both an open support for the hood latch mechanism and as a way to route the incoming air flow around it. I also think that the curved area helps to strengthen the scoop (although I see no reason why -- the plastic is pretty tough to begin with).

Adding the extra air source might increase the overall air flow to the box (or maybe interfere with it). We'll see.

The short round "lip" at the bottom of the stock intake that connects the elbow to the resonator was cut flush to the bottom of the intake "arm" and the opening was closed off and patched up using leftover pieces of plastic.

I am holding off taking photos until the whole thing is finished.

PS: As a kid, I loved taking things apart and doing all kinds of experiments just to learn how they work. This project is no different. Please keep that in mind if you think I am wasting my time.

Dave H.

iTrader: (5)

Any more progress on this. I have been thinking about doing something similar, using aluminum sheeting. I was just curious on your progress. Thanks.

dr-rjp

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for asking.

I picked up an extra stock scoop from the junkyard that I have partially modified, but it is so coated with grease that even after spraying it with Gunk, brushing it down, and using a high pressure hose at one of these self-serve car washes, it still has not come clean.

I need to scrub off all the crap on the outside and inside before I start gluing things to it, but with the unrelenting heat during the day, I just do not seem have the energy.

So, i'm going to hold off until it starts turning cooler down here.

Stay tuned.

Dave H.

iTrader: (5)

I did a mock up of what i want to do. Sorry, no camera to show what i mean.
I used cardboard to do this testing part.
I want to attach aluminum sheeting to the stock intake scoop (the part right over the radiator). I will take the mounting screws out and attach it under those screws. This part will be 8 1/4" wide.
I will bend the aluminum down, making a nice curve and have it end about 1 1/2-2" below the top of the grill. The aluminum will taper on the left side, down towards the grill to clear the hood release. The width of the part coming close to the grill is about 7 1/4". My grill has been cut away, leaving only the grille-tech grille and allows more air flow. I hope this 'scoop' will direct more air (specifially colder outside air) in to the stock intake.
The only problem i forsee happening is rain water being directed up there as well. Any thoughts on that?
I also have thoughts of making raised edges on this 'scoop' design. That way the air that goes up it won't go out the sides. Any thoughts on that. It may resemble an evo's front grill, with a little box in the upper corner of the grill.
Thanks, David

itsdaveonline

ok so basicly if i plug up the tube to the resonator to do this "mod" i dont need to remove the resonator right?? i wana test this out!

Edit: i also read that this will give you cel? will this occur simply by plugging up that tube?

Dave H.

iTrader: (5)

What mod exactly are you speaking of?

itsdaveonline

somthing like this:

that blocks the air to the resonator.... By reading up it has 3-4 benifits i want:

-Better sounding? (maybe)
-Better MPG, totaly for that!
-Faster, i don't race but again it sounds like you probably would increase performance.....
-Its a free mod! yay!

dr-rjp

iTrader: (4)

After driving through a sudden downpour at highway sppeds, I checked the "scoop extender" and the inside of the scoop and airbox after I exited the highway -- fearing for the worst.

Actually, there wasn't a drop of rain inside the scoop or air box. The rain did not go up the extender -- it harmless splashed off to the sides and the hood, and never made it into the scoop itself. This makes sense if you think about the relative mass (and momentum) of water versus air and what happens when a stream of water hits a relatively flat surface.

When the water initially hits the extender straight-on, it travels at right angles to the flow, so in order for water to get into the scoop, it would have to hit the extender at a 45 degree angle from below. Because the bars of my Cefiro grill are curved downwards, there's no way to get a clear shot at the extender from that angle.

The grill itself also prevents most of the rain from getting inside because the rain splashing against it interferes with the flow of water behind it.

I have a thin sheet of polyurethane plastic that I am going to heat and bend into a shape somewhere between a rectangular box (like I have now) and a curved funnel.

Then, I'll attach it to the top of the scoop.

dr-rjp

iTrader: (4)

Not at all. the CEL remains off. Take a look at the photo that "itsdaveonline" posted: after removing the resonator, you simply drop in a paddle ball (which fits right into the hole in the scoop arm), and then you reattach the resonator which helps to keep the paddle ball snugly inside the opening, but without blocking off the air flow through the intake.

dr-rjp

iTrader: (4)

Gas mileage in the city did not increase more than 1-2MPG, but out on the highway, I got a major boost: 34MPG (with the A/C on) which I had never gotten before. My previous best on the highway was 28MPG -- that's almost a 20% increase!

Dave H.

iTrader: (5)

Update on my sheet metal air scoop thing (pics to come later)...

I drove 315 miles in one day over a mountain pass using cruise control at 73 miles per hour with rpm at 2500, with the ac on. I drive an automatic. I only used 10 gallons of gas, making that 31.4 mpg. That is a new record for me. I have a feeling that if the speed limit were less that 70, and i travel at 65 mph, my mpg would be even higher.
I am still testing the 'scoop' for everyday city/highway driving. I'll report the next time i fill up on gas.

shadyonedeath

iTrader: (10)

Thanks alot to the author of this thread.

We're both very much alike in the taking things apart to see how they work as a kid department.

your curiosity is greatly appreciated! =]

itsdaveonline

Ok i before going to the gas station i put a papa johns garlic sauce container in my resonater elbow, blocking off all air to the resonator. Then i refilled my tank. ill update you guys and tell you how many miles on the tank i got and if its my record or not!

itsdaveonline

http://www.wikihow.com/Calculate-Your-Car's-Fuel-Efficiency-(MPG)

dr-rjp

iTrader: (4)

Thanks, Shady. It's nice to meet a fellow tinkerer supportive of my efforts, instead of the usual criticisms I get from purists who feel compelled to tell me that I'm wasting my time.

Apparition

iTrader: (5)

..you're wasting your time.

shadyonedeath

iTrader: (10)

O'rly?

dr-rjp

iTrader: (4)

Now, that was a real waste of time.

Godson

So in that pic are we looking at the bottom of that L connector where it would go to the resonator? I was tinkering with this and couldnt find anything that went in there but I took the elbow off and fit a cap in there pretty nicely,taped it all secure and put the elbow back in but I had to face it the other way or it wouldnt fit...do I need to plug the hole on the resonator itself?
It didnt look like I should have to since as far as I can see once you d/c it from the elbow only flowing air will go in there and it shouldnt matter right?the resonator doesnt actually go to the airbox does it,its only joined by that elbow?

dr-rjp

iTrader: (4)

Originally, I left off the resonator elbow and duct-taped a spray can cap to the hole in the intake. The cap was the same diameter as the opening, so it made for a tight fit.

Now, once you plug that hole, the resonator is bypassed and rendered meaningless.

When the resonator elbow is attached in the stock setup, the incoming air makes some kind of detour through the elbow and into a baffled box that works like a muffler -- I have never seen that box, up close and personal, because it is tucked out of sight and difficult to access. I'm not sure why anyone would want to access it, unless there is something that one can clean inside.

The paddle ball idea was actually done on a whim (or flash of insight). The additional stock intake that I bought was resting upside-down and inside a box in my garage. The resonator joint was facing up. Inside the same box was a paddle ball that I found. Looking at the ball, I realized that it was about the same size as the opening in the joint, so I dropped it in to see what would happen.

Bingo! The ball became an unobtrusive alternative to the ugly spray can cap that I taped to the intake. However, the ball needed to be secured inside the hole, so, again on a whim, I tried to reattach the elbow. It went on with no problem and most importantly, it kept the paddle ball snugly in place.

The rest is history.

now, instead of having an ugly-looking spray can cover duct-taped to the intake, I have a paddle ball that not only is hidden from view, but does a better job of sealing off the opening, and permits the reattachment of the resonator elbow -- which, by the way, adds needed support to the intake system.

When you leave the resonator elbow off, the intake has only two points of support: the scoop that is held onto to the front of the car frame by two small screws, and the rectangular joint at the entrance to the airbox (a joint that relies on friction to keep the intake attached to the airbox).

To use an analogy, if the intake was like a broken arm, and the airbox was like a shoulder, then the resonator elbow would be like an arm brace.

Dave H.

iTrader: (5)

My design did let some rain water in the stock scoop over the radiator. I only drove a few miles in the rain, but thought if I drove more, the rain would get pushed further down the intake. I checked the box and found no water. So, I took it off and won't be able to test city/everyday driving.

I am going to continue to think about the design for this, hoping to come up with something that doesn't let water in.

Thanks

Godson

Ok cool,now Im with ya,so I dont need to actually plug the hole going into the resonator,just the elbow end,which I right now have with the ugly spray can cap,its green and I gotta do something with it...cool. It definitly has a little more growl to it,the rest of my car is stock,no exhaust or anything just a KN drop in.

Apparition

iTrader: (5)

..you're wasting your time

FoxbatLNS

I'm unsure of where else to post this, but I'm unable to start a new topic/thread regarding some questions I have about air filters and intakes. I registered about 20 minutes ago, and did the account activation/etc. What are the restrictions (if any) on being able to start one's own threads? Appreciate the info in advance.

SEmy2K2go

iTrader: (10)

In the stickies. Please do not ***** up someone else's thread with questions likes this.

dr-rjp

iTrader: (4)

Well, finally I got the extra intake clean as a whistle. I first sprayed Goo-Gone on it, worked it over with a hard bristle brush, then sprayed it with Gunk and let it sit for 10 minutes. Finally, I hit it with the high pressure soap and rinse at a self-serve car wash.

I'm going to stop by a local plastic company and sift through their refuse bins to find some plastic sheets that I can use to make my scoop extender, and to plug up the holes in the stock intake.

I may finish this thing by the weekend.

95bluse

iTrader: (1)

I'm quite sure there is no need to bypass that "resonator" under the battery. In fact, I'm sure it is not a resonator, but a catch can for water & debris. There is no noise reduction when this box is bypassed nor is there any loss of intake air "pressure" due to it. The box already has air in it with only one inlet, how or why would air be diverted to it? I fail to see the logic here.

Below is my crude diagram. I'd like someone to explain the advantage(s) of blocking it, apart from the fact that in a heavy rainfall, you'd like your airfilter waterlogged

========|| < hood scoop
..............||
..............||
............... ================ > plastic intake tube to airfilter box
..............||
..............|| <--- Elbow (where *****/can caps etc are inserted)
.......----- -----
.......|.............| <--- Reservoir/"resonator" only one inlet
.......|.............|
.......-----------

The "." (periods) are placeholders