EGR reason i failed emissions?
08-09-2006, 12:17 PM
#42
Originally Posted by ghop95
My wifes max has been hard to start lately and sometimes cuts off after running for a few minutes. I ran the codes and get the "egr hi/low flow.." & "temp control sensor". Could the egr be the problem... has this happened to any of you?
Greg
Greg
08-09-2006, 04:19 PM
#43
okay i've done the "manual" egr test and both the old and the new valve hold the diaphram up when i keep the vacuum seal and then release when i release my finger.
so now i have to put my intake stuff on to test and see if all the passageways are clear (which i think they are) and then it'll be to the vacuum test.
i'm learning!
so if my NOX levels are high that means the valve is staying closed? which means its not allowing any to be recirculated its just all going out to the exhaust. But the valve shouldnt be opening at low rpm's anyways right? so why would it stall the car at 2k rpm? They were running my car on the dyno (thats how they test emissions on 96 and older) and he did a test at 25 mph and 15 mph my car shouldnt be at 2k rpm at either of those speeds right? so if its not at 2k rpm the valve should not be opening to recirculate gas which means the valve is closed, and if the valve is closed like you said mike (not open like the emissions guys said) then i shouldnt have high numbers like this.
Now im thinking its not a matter of the EGR not recirculating the gas maybe its a matter of the NOX being formed int he first place? Could this possibly be an 02 sensor problem? I have some codes for the 02 sensor heater but i ignored them since i replaced one of the front sensors anyway...
edit- i just read over the list of the basic occassions which the egr would stop functioning. the guy at the emissions place probably didnt know waht he was talking about or had the reverse idea of how the egr worked and has me thinking reverse like him.
so now i have to put my intake stuff on to test and see if all the passageways are clear (which i think they are) and then it'll be to the vacuum test.
i'm learning!
so if my NOX levels are high that means the valve is staying closed? which means its not allowing any to be recirculated its just all going out to the exhaust. But the valve shouldnt be opening at low rpm's anyways right? so why would it stall the car at 2k rpm? They were running my car on the dyno (thats how they test emissions on 96 and older) and he did a test at 25 mph and 15 mph my car shouldnt be at 2k rpm at either of those speeds right? so if its not at 2k rpm the valve should not be opening to recirculate gas which means the valve is closed, and if the valve is closed like you said mike (not open like the emissions guys said) then i shouldnt have high numbers like this.
Now im thinking its not a matter of the EGR not recirculating the gas maybe its a matter of the NOX being formed int he first place? Could this possibly be an 02 sensor problem? I have some codes for the 02 sensor heater but i ignored them since i replaced one of the front sensors anyway...
edit- i just read over the list of the basic occassions which the egr would stop functioning. the guy at the emissions place probably didnt know waht he was talking about or had the reverse idea of how the egr worked and has me thinking reverse like him.
08-10-2006, 08:29 AM
#44
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 84
It won't stall the car at 2K, just at idle (~700). And the test at 15 & 25 mph is at around 1700 for my car. The test stations have a specific gear that California dictates they use. If the car is a 5 speed then the vehicle must be in 2nd for the 15 test and 3rd for the 25mph test. Your state may be different.
-MP
-MP
08-10-2006, 08:47 AM
#45
Hmm alright. So you think the egr is the cause of my failing emissions for the most part. I only failed the nox portion and I've got some 02 codes as well but if the egr is the culprit then ill continue to focus on it. I've almost got the car put back together ill finish it when I get off work.
Thanks
Thanks
08-10-2006, 10:03 AM
#46
Bro, I had the same issue here in Toronto. My NOx was 3 times higher & my C0 was barely under the limit. I was worried because I had put on a Budget y-pipe only a few months before & have never previously failed emissions. Anyway, talked to a few people & decided to replace the CAT with a Magnaflow free-flow cat. I passed with flying colours! Since you've had this EGR issue previuosly & passed, I'd say the cat is your culprit especially especially because your NOx is so high.
BTW, I'm not sure if my cat "died" (what? no 9 lives?
) because my flex section had a huge hole in it. Anyway we both have '95's...could be age.
CAT cost me $200CAD to install.
BTW, I'm not sure if my cat "died" (what? no 9 lives?
) because my flex section had a huge hole in it. Anyway we both have '95's...could be age.CAT cost me $200CAD to install.
08-10-2006, 10:12 AM
#47
Oh really? Hmmm well I've got an extra cat although I don't know how to tell if a cat works or not but I guess its worth a shot. If its my catalytic converter I'm gonna smack the sh*t outta someone lol. I mean of all obvious emmissions parts.
Ima do this stuff tonight. I mean I'm not surprised to see these things fail because yeah original 11 year old parts so if its a cat no biggie. I don't think I would spend more than 50 bucks on a new cat though, I've got a test pipe I'm just gonna put on as soon as I can get a bung welded in it.
Ima do this stuff tonight. I mean I'm not surprised to see these things fail because yeah original 11 year old parts so if its a cat no biggie. I don't think I would spend more than 50 bucks on a new cat though, I've got a test pipe I'm just gonna put on as soon as I can get a bung welded in it.
Originally Posted by 95bluse
Bro, I had the same issue here in Toronto. My NOx was 3 times higher & my C0 was barely under the limit. I was worried because I had put on a Budget y-pipe only a few months before & have never previously failed emissions. Anyway, talked to a few people & decided to replace the CAT with a Magnaflow free-flow cat. I passed with flying colours! Since you've had this EGR issue previuosly & passed, I'd say the cat is your culprit especially especially because your NOx is so high.
BTW, I'm not sure if my cat "died" (what? no 9 lives?) because my flex section had a huge hole in it. Anyway we both have '95's...could be age.
CAT cost me $200CAD to install.
BTW, I'm not sure if my cat "died" (what? no 9 lives?
) because my flex section had a huge hole in it. Anyway we both have '95's...could be age.CAT cost me $200CAD to install.
08-10-2006, 10:13 AM
#48
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 84
That's good info. I actually just had a new magnaflow cat put on two days ago and have not had it retested since. My car smells a lot better so it might be worth a shot. I was planning on doing it soon because I had a FI leak and I was thinking the excess fuel being dumped down the exhaust probably killed the cat. I went to the shop to have them find a leak and they cut me a deal when I asked about a cat price. $120 installed. I would go have it retested now except that I know my EGR isn't working properly. It only opens for a moment and then returns to the closed position. From everything I have read it is my understanding that if you hold the throttle at 2000 RPM the EGR should open and stay open.
Oh, and I actually have a 93, but I couldn't find any EGR threads in the 3rd gen forum so I thought I would poke around the 4th gen figuring it should be similar. I think our systems are the same with the exception that you guys have a dedicated temp sensor for the EGR...but I'm not totally sure about that.
thanks for the input
-MP
Oh, and I actually have a 93, but I couldn't find any EGR threads in the 3rd gen forum so I thought I would poke around the 4th gen figuring it should be similar. I think our systems are the same with the exception that you guys have a dedicated temp sensor for the EGR...but I'm not totally sure about that.
thanks for the input
-MP
08-10-2006, 10:21 AM
#49
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 84
chillin014, ya you could put a test pipe on there, but you aren't going to get through emissions without a cat. And the next time you are sitting in Houston traffic breathing in the exhaust fumes of everyone sitting in their car around you ask yourself if you would want each of them to have the NOx levels of 3 or 4 cars. When I'm in my daily commute with 4 lanes of cars moving at 25mph that's what I think about.
A high flow cat can be purchased for less than a $100 (not as nice as $50 but this isn't a bicycle your working on), doesn't noticably decrease performance, and greatly improves your emissions output and thereby the air you are breathing. There are those who would tell you that you can make your car run better by eliminating a lot of things under the hood but in general they really have little idea of what those systems actually do. Okay, enough rant.
-MP
A high flow cat can be purchased for less than a $100 (not as nice as $50 but this isn't a bicycle your working on), doesn't noticably decrease performance, and greatly improves your emissions output and thereby the air you are breathing. There are those who would tell you that you can make your car run better by eliminating a lot of things under the hood but in general they really have little idea of what those systems actually do. Okay, enough rant.
-MP
08-10-2006, 11:36 AM
#51
Originally Posted by Mikey P
chillin014, ya you could put a test pipe on there, but you aren't going to get through emissions without a cat. And the next time you are sitting in Houston traffic breathing in the exhaust fumes of everyone sitting in their car around you ask yourself if you would want each of them to have the NOx levels of 3 or 4 cars. When I'm in my daily commute with 4 lanes of cars moving at 25mph that's what I think about.
A high flow cat can be purchased for less than a $100 (not as nice as $50 but this isn't a bicycle your working on), doesn't noticably decrease performance, and greatly improves your emissions output and thereby the air you are breathing. There are those who would tell you that you can make your car run better by eliminating a lot of things under the hood but in general they really have little idea of what those systems actually do. Okay, enough rant.
-MP
A high flow cat can be purchased for less than a $100 (not as nice as $50 but this isn't a bicycle your working on), doesn't noticably decrease performance, and greatly improves your emissions output and thereby the air you are breathing. There are those who would tell you that you can make your car run better by eliminating a lot of things under the hood but in general they really have little idea of what those systems actually do. Okay, enough rant.
-MP
This EGR issue seems to be a pain to troubleshoot, I hope you guys can sort it out.
08-10-2006, 12:09 PM
#52
Lol ok ya tree huggers (jk)
I wasn't going to attempt to pass emissions with the test pipe, I'm not retarded.
Putting the test pipe on is not really a priority right now but it is something I planned on doing. I bought it when I needed a cheap little mod but I paid too much for it (55 bucks) its a custom enterprise one with the resonator bs inside it. I'd like a hi-flow cat and will look into one if I ever see a deal but I don't have 100 to fork over at the moment.
I agree, the car was put together to function with all this stuff working together and I'm hoping the egr being fixed gives me a smoother idle or maybe peace of mind that the temps are being kept down in the firing chambers...
Ill be back on later after I've done the testing.
I wasn't going to attempt to pass emissions with the test pipe, I'm not retarded.
Putting the test pipe on is not really a priority right now but it is something I planned on doing. I bought it when I needed a cheap little mod but I paid too much for it (55 bucks) its a custom enterprise one with the resonator bs inside it. I'd like a hi-flow cat and will look into one if I ever see a deal but I don't have 100 to fork over at the moment.
I agree, the car was put together to function with all this stuff working together and I'm hoping the egr being fixed gives me a smoother idle or maybe peace of mind that the temps are being kept down in the firing chambers...
Ill be back on later after I've done the testing.
08-11-2006, 11:35 PM
#54
yeah...the car died when i pressed up on the diaphram.
but holding it at 2k and the egr valve would not go up. so i guess the next step is checking the vacuum. but the resonator accordian thing cracked half way off and im worried thats gonna have an effect on the vacuum running all that unfiltered air straight to the TB and all that.
i guess i'll check the solenoid too but honestly, im hoping this narrows down the possible problems cause im ready for this thing to just work
but holding it at 2k and the egr valve would not go up. so i guess the next step is checking the vacuum. but the resonator accordian thing cracked half way off and im worried thats gonna have an effect on the vacuum running all that unfiltered air straight to the TB and all that.
i guess i'll check the solenoid too but honestly, im hoping this narrows down the possible problems cause im ready for this thing to just work
08-19-2006, 01:55 PM
#56
okay i wasnt getting vacuum to the egr solenoid which means the solenoid isnt broken its something to do with the vacuum lines. i dont see why there wouldnt be any vacuum...
i tested right under tehTB and got a good vacuum reading and i "jumped" it by hooking up a line from the TB to the EGR and the egr lifted when reving. Now what im wondering is, could i just leave the "jumped" set up on and pass inspection since the egr valve will be opening? at this point i dont even give a sh*t if the egr system works on a daily basis i just really need an inspection sticker.
i tested right under tehTB and got a good vacuum reading and i "jumped" it by hooking up a line from the TB to the EGR and the egr lifted when reving. Now what im wondering is, could i just leave the "jumped" set up on and pass inspection since the egr valve will be opening? at this point i dont even give a sh*t if the egr system works on a daily basis i just really need an inspection sticker.
03-31-2007, 02:59 PM
#59
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 17
i too have a 3rd Gen Maxima SE and i'm trying to test the egr solenoid. i took it out and applied 12v voltage to it. i put a piece of vacuum hose on the metal pipe and when i applied voltage i could not suck air. without power to the solenoid i could suck air. is that normal? i can hear the click when applying voltage and the valve is moving, so is it operating oppositely from normal or is this normal?
i have the solenoid removed from car and without any voltage i can suck air from the hose connected to the metal end [ (B) in FSM ]. with the voltage i hear a click and i cannot suck air.
i'm a newb so i can't start a thread so i'm just digging up old threads. sorry.
thanks
i have the solenoid removed from car and without any voltage i can suck air from the hose connected to the metal end [ (B) in FSM ]. with the voltage i hear a click and i cannot suck air.
i'm a newb so i can't start a thread so i'm just digging up old threads. sorry.
thanks
03-31-2007, 04:34 PM
#61
beefbowl, that indicates a good solenoid, although next time you might want to blow rather than suck. just so you dont get any possible nasty crap in your mouth lol. but try checking for blockage in any hoses or get a vacuum pump and try testing the egr valve itself. to do that you hook up the vacuum pump to the spot where the very small hose is on the top of the valve(sorry to be vague, just dont know the technical name for it). then you start the car. you then start to pump up the vacuum and listen/observe engine RPM. if RPM changes, than that indicates that the EGR valve is not sticking closed.
03-31-2007, 08:33 PM
#62
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 17
thanks for the help mikey and willard. i don't have a vacuum pump so what i did was suck on the hose that connects to the egr valve. i think the valve is ok. i've narrowed it down to either, the egr valve gasket which i haven't replaced yet, after taking it apart two times, or the hose connecting the solenoid to the egr valve needs replacing.
the check engine light comes on but goes off when with the engine running and in park i manually rev the engine and lift up on the egr diaphragm. i don't have to clear the codes on the ecm. this last time i did it it stayed off but i'm not sure for how long.
yeah, i wish i had some money to spend on a nice vacuum pump
anyone know of a place that sells cheap but good ones?
thanks
the check engine light comes on but goes off when with the engine running and in park i manually rev the engine and lift up on the egr diaphragm. i don't have to clear the codes on the ecm. this last time i did it it stayed off but i'm not sure for how long.
yeah, i wish i had some money to spend on a nice vacuum pump
anyone know of a place that sells cheap but good ones?thanks
03-31-2007, 09:04 PM
#63
Originally Posted by beefbowl
thanks for the help mikey and willard. i don't have a vacuum pump so what i did was suck on the hose that connects to the egr valve. i think the valve is ok. i've narrowed it down to either, the egr valve gasket which i haven't replaced yet, after taking it apart two times, or the hose connecting the solenoid to the egr valve needs replacing.
the check engine light comes on but goes off when with the engine running and in park i manually rev the engine and lift up on the egr diaphragm. i don't have to clear the codes on the ecm. this last time i did it it stayed off but i'm not sure for how long.
yeah, i wish i had some money to spend on a nice vacuum pump anyone know of a place that sells cheap but good ones?
thanks
the check engine light comes on but goes off when with the engine running and in park i manually rev the engine and lift up on the egr diaphragm. i don't have to clear the codes on the ecm. this last time i did it it stayed off but i'm not sure for how long.
yeah, i wish i had some money to spend on a nice vacuum pump
anyone know of a place that sells cheap but good ones?thanks
haha just kidding of course. but you may beable to rent a vacuum pump from autozone....EDIT: also, by the book you are supposed to replace the gasket each time you take the valve off. so you may want to do that. and if you do, why not change the hose too? cant be more than a couple bucks.
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