speed racer

iTrader: (10)

This looks like a good alternative. http://www.magnetpaints.com/underbody.asp

maxihari77SE96

iTrader: (3)

$800 changed it 6 month ago. Also put in a new rear bumper cover (from 97) so it looks like a conversion hehe
all 900$.

Armelius

I even had Zeibart and that pos still rusted. I imagine it first started rusting at 140k miles but don't know for sure.

speed racer

iTrader: (10)

how many times did you apply the rust protection. I think it would be an annual maintenance item.

shavedmax

iTrader: (6)

u kidding mang? cars are designed to fold in a crash, filling that with anything hard will affect the crash worthyness of the car, the car doesnt fold like it should and you get hurt. not to mention the cost involved, like matty pointed out. that isnt the most important structural part of your car, so get over it. if you spent 25 k on your car in 95 i'm sure you got what you oaid for and it's still going, so stop complaining.

your 60 dollar pos part is just that a 60 dollar pos part. it's not made of the same material or thickness, therefore it wont last as long. it may seem it does to you, but thats only because the car gets junked before it rots out. honestly, a car's average life is 10 years. why would nissan want cars to last longer than that? so they dont sell more? and there's enviromental factors that play a role in rust too. i'm sure there arent as many people in arizona that have this problem. you're talking about a design flaw from 13 years ago that wasnt evident probably until the 99's went into production, so how could they have fixed it beforehand. my 98 with 150 k has it rusted, it doesnt affect the car. will i fix it when i have to, yes, but not beforehand. spend all that money to have something else go? then what junk the car?

and now theyre made of plastic. i'm sure it'll make you happy to know that it wont rust, but if a tab cracks you have to change the ENTIRE THING. great way to blow 400 bucks on an otherwise repairable part. to the engineer that was more concerned with long term rust and didnt look at the short term collision dollars that would be wasted

Armelius

I didn't buy the rust protection. The previous owner did. Maybe he had the cash to blow. I don't or didn't keep it up every year.

I am all for safe cars and crumple hoods and all that safety crap that could deafen or further put your life in danger. I can't get enough of it. But I noticed that cars built before all these protections did fairly well with the rust. There have been some exceptions like the Vega, Custom Deluxe Chevy Truck circa 1976 and some Datsun or Chevy Luv truck that rusted beyond just the body. But most with frames didn't lose their frames to rust.

There is no such thing as an average life of cars. Cars can last as long as people take care of it and not get in a wreck. I never noticed an advertisement for new cars saying they will get to the 10 year disposal point. No, instead some offer a warranty that they guarrantee you won't have problems with the car. After that it's fear factor to buy a new car.

I have 277k miles on my car. It's still top notch and spending 800 dollars a year on it isn't much of big deal. If I spend more than that then it's time to start thinking about something else with less miles. 800 dollars is that point of no return for me.

The whole reason of buying this car was the fact it has a timing chain and not a belt along with the quality work put in this car. I wasn't planning on throwing away 800 dollars for a radiator support or much of anything else. Shocks, battery, knock sensor, brakes, ball bearing, tires, starter and other small items isn't much of a big deal with my mileage (since I replaced them all). However, something considered as the frame and even the brake master cylinder I have some issues with.

My 87 pathfinder had a small crack develop in the transmission housing where it joins the engine. That was odd. Replacing a radiator, a thermostat, brakes and a few batteries were not a big deal and that has @ 255k miles on it while it's radiator support looks fine.

Didn't know they were making them out of plastic now. News to me. Got a picture?

shavedmax

iTrader: (6)

so YOU didnt spend 25k on that car, but can't justify the cost you did spend on it because the lower part of you radiator support has some rust? you do realize there's more to a car than whether it rusts or not that determines it's cost right? at 277k you got way more than average joe gets for their car. automakers know that on average a car doesnt last over 10 years. wether it be the american way of having the newest coolest thing out there, accidents, mechanical breakdowns, wear and tear, thefts, etc etc, the avg car doesnt last that long. some people keep their cars longer, some shorter, but it averages out. how many 3rd gens do you see on the road compared to 4th gens? how about 2nd gens? gotta be a reason why right?

rust issues and safety issues are 2 different animals. you show me an american car from the early 70's(or 80's) that folds like the ones that do nowadays. cant find one that i know of. most transfered energy very well, which means that an offset front hit would cause damage to the opposite rear quarter panel. instead of stopping that enery it traveled through the occupant. but beaing as you dont care about safety and have disabled your airbags and dont wear your seatbelt, the use of high strength steels in the frame rails to absorb that energy probably have no effect on you. check out www.iihs.org if you want to know about safety.

here's a full frame big strong truck
and here's your maxima:
and a 97+

if you read the ratings i think i'd rather be in a 97 maxima.

on the issue of rust.............................show me any american car ever built before 1995 that didnt have some rust somewhere and i have a bucket full of cash for you. aint gonna happen. they were all rust buckets. what good is the frame being solid if the thin metal that holds it to the body is rotted and in a crash it rips away from the frame? and you have to compare apples to apples. full frame vehicles use 1/8 inch plate to make frames. the unibody frame rails on your car are 18 gauge at best. you think that rust is going to go through metal 4-5 times thicker that fast? and being as that you brought up pathfinders, i bought a 95 for a project that has swiss cheese for a frame. i actually put my thumb through sections of it. is that truck safer than my maxima?

any 2004 maxima and 2002?-up altima has a plastic support. the current quest and murano has a plastic support. audi 's done it since 2000 i think, volkswagen's last golf/jetta had them. obviously the crashworthiness of the support isnt as important as the frame rails and bumper reinforcement around it.

Armelius

Rust somewhere? Hmmm, like the rotors? Nah. You on crack or something to think I don't care about safety and I don't wear my seatbelts? I don't care so much for air bags or even the middle rear tail light.

I don't know why cars don't last or why the last. They are not like tires or milk you buy at the grocery. You either have something and take care of it by doing routine maintance and cleaning or you don't. You get lucky on the road or you don't. I don't know. I take care of my junk.

Obviously they are not thinking about crashworthiness of the support which is my point if it's going to rust out and cause the crash. I am not saying the designers are responsible for the support. All I am saying is that there is a design flaw there and that must be the reason they changed it (as you say to plastic). I wouldn't want plastic holding it up. I have had no luck with any plastic. Most plastic doesn't even last five years in extreme conditions.

As for your 95 pathy I wouldn't know why you would by one with swiss cheese for a frame unless you were hungry. I can't eat cheese.

You got a 97 maxima and I am sure it is safer even during a rollover.

I bought a 2001 pathfinder and I could imagine it's radiator support going in about 160k more miles. If I could I would put the 2001 engine in the 87 pathfinder and have one dynomite auto, but I am stuck with making this decission of keeping the maxima or not.

I got a low budget. Rust is the number one killer of cars so Ziebart says and it's a shame the radiator support has rusted out before my exhaust. Doesn't make a bit of sense.

speed racer

iTrader: (10)

I wouldn't downgrade plastic or any composite at that. I have to agree with shavedmax that the new technology and research has caused the automative industry to look into other alternative materials that are either lighter, stronger, or just better than safety compared to the normal steel frames. For instance bumpers. In the 80's all cars had a nice chrome bumper but now its fiberglass or some plastic. The reason for the switch is that the newer materials absorb the energy instead of transferring the energy to the remainder of the cars chassis/frame.

So, the use of plastic is not stupid. I also feel that Nissan couldn't predict this area as a rust prone part.

shavedmax

iTrader: (6)

yup i love crack, i have it for breakfast, usually while staring at my rotors, which are a piece of raw steel that get ground down when i drive,wondering why they have rust on them in the morning and none by the end of the day. dont know how they do that.

the reason they changed the support to plastic is because it's not an integral part of the strength of the car, not a design flaw, if you didnt notice they chabged the FULL design of the car 2 times before they channged the support. the frame rails are and the bumper reinforcement is. that's made of hight strength steel, much stronger than any full frame. lighter parts= higher fuel economy with the same or better safety. hell the 2004 maxima has a better crash rating with a plastic support than the 5th gen or 4th gen.

i doubt that you even looked at the pictures. for some reason the iihs pics dont post on here, only link, but any full frame chevy truck(just like your good old cars) folds like an acordion. it's got the poorest rating iihs gives cars.
i havent heard of any maxima having an accident because of the lower support rusting. if it does rot through the crossmember sits on the support and makes noise, not fly off. and i havent seen any that was in an accident that was negatively affected by that being rusted(i work in the collision industry so i see plenty of wrecked cars) the bumper reinforcement keeps the frame rails together and transfers energy better than a piece of sheetmetal ever would.

as far as my pathfinder is concerned, i needed a clean cab for a project and didnt need a frame, but its destroyed, as well as the rear 1/4 panels from rust. i didnt look any further, no need to until i start my project.

i'm done, dont need to keep this pissing contest up

Armelius

The use of plastic is not stupid?

I will tell you what is stupid. A cadillac with plastic on the bumpers circa 1979. You tell me what is going to be a classic, a 57 with chrome bumpers or a 2006 cadillac with gleaming plastic?

A ton of whatever plastic or steel going 65 mph is going to do great damage to another ton coming in the same direction a la two trainwrecks.

Take flipping a car for example. Just your weight falling on the roof with a seat belt on is enough to break your neck.

If they are going to go that route why not put a thin titanium bar under the radiator?

If these cars are getting scrapped every 10 years then it shouldn't cost much extra to put it under the radiator.

We pay how much for platinum catalytic converters? We should be able to afford some titanium.

shavedmax

iTrader: (6)

terms like circal and a la sound like theyre from 1979, so your mindset will never change. you be in your 57 caddy and ill take a plastic 2004 maxima and we can play chicken. at least ill walk away. you'd be lucky to be in a strecher.
and while you're at it write a letter to mr nissan and ask him why his cheap *** didnt put some titanium in your car. let me know when he gets back to you.

and i've never heard of a platinum cat, but then again you probably think my platimum mastercard is actually made of that.

Armelius

The purpose of cars are not to crash them. You are thinking destruction derby. The purposes of a car is to get you from point A to point B and back again without it falling apart. Sort of like the lunar lander or something. You don't want to crash into the moon and you are going to have enough safety equipment to support the journey.

Again I would expect over time the paint and perhaps even some rust to develop around the outer body and not some thicker gage metal beam to rust out completely.

I much rather have titanium under the radiator supporting the engine than having platinum in the back of an exaust system keeping the air cleaner. Catalytic converters have platinum in them, why do you think they are so expensive?

matty

iTrader: (54)

What do you think car manufacturers spend millions of dollars on each year ?? Crash Tests !!

You guys are barking up the wrong tree here.

-matt

2da mizzax

iTrader: (4)

http://www.zero-rust.com/?OVRAW=truc...OVMTC=advanced ??

there was one on TRUCKS on Spike TV but i cant remember the name right now. Had to change mine.

shavedmax

iTrader: (6)

to be honest i have no idea what we're arguing about. the lower part of the radiator suppt isnt a structural piece of the car, as far as crash worthiness goes, so the fact that it rusts within 10 years means nothing. it's made of the same thickness metal as the rest of the car, at best it's 2 layers sandwiched together, and it gets pummeled by rocks, sand and salt, of course it's going to rust. it being made of titanium or kriptonite for that matter would have no affect on the average consumer. the car would have been disposed of before it's an issue. just like any other old car, work is going to be needed. some would prefer it to be mechanical over structural. i could care less. my 98 with 150k has it rusted. it still works fine. it has the original exhaust on the car, stock struts, etc. i cant complain, and when i have to change them, i will, just like the support. when it rots out, ill fix it or replace the car. that simple. no need to go off on tangents

matty

iTrader: (54)

Im not arguing that it shouldnt be done when its rusted out. I did mine when it was rusted and all I am saying is people should do the same

End of thread

-matt

Armelius

The issue is an apparent design flaw that has some possibly fatal consequences.

You can have airbags, bumpers, catalytic converters and safety out the wazzoo but if some non-informed maxima owner is driving down the road 55 miles an hour and the engine falls out, what might happen?

I remember Ford getting hit by dangerous gas tanks in the rear of their Pintos. Chevy getting hit by not only the Corvair but also it's trucks with the fuel tank mounted just right for a side impact.

Likewise if you are just sitting in traffic and the engine bursts into flames because of a design flaw the manufacturer should be accountable.

And that is what I think this radiator support beam is a design flaw. Nissan even acknowedge it by switching to plastic. I also think it's a major safety issue. If you guys don't that is fine but I would be wary of approaching a 4th gen nissan at highway speeds.

If one little rusted beam could cause a major accident involving countless people and countless property damage then I think someone should be more concerned.

2da mizzax

iTrader: (4)

it is impossible for the the motor to fall out. that is the whole purpose of that crossmember underneath it. no to mention the 2 mounts on the sides.

shavedmax

iTrader: (6)

exactly, and they changed the support to plastic 2 models later so save weight, not because of a design flaw. this guy is comparing maximas to pintos. pintos were built like ****, just like corvairs. you show me a 95 american car that you havent had to put an engine into at 150k? that would cost at least a grand, meanwhile he has a great running car that has some rust on it in a non structural part of the car and he's crying a river. go drive a pinto. if the support ever rots out from the bottom the crossmember sits on the upper part of the lower support, nothing falls out unless you jack the car up, and even then, like 2damizzax said, it had side mounts that hold it in place. i see alot of wrecked cars at work. i'v fixed alot of maximas, none of which i felt that some rust on the lower support compromised the integrity of the car. does it need to be fixed so that the front crossmember has a place to bolt up to, yes. but does everyone have to do it this weekend, no.

dukelubas

iTrader: (10)

So I've been quoted 400 bucks to replace just the lower port of the support. Sounds fairly reasonable to me. Opinions?

2da mizzax

iTrader: (4)

i just got a used one and replaced it myself at my buddy's shop. that price sounds about right though as some work is involved.

JeEvE

iTrader: (10)

Mine needs to be replaced soon, It is rusting but its not terrible. I plan to do it myself, not gonna spend $400-800 on labor. I have have access to mig/tig so it shouldnt be a problem. Made a catback together so I have some experience. How much welding is involved?

krillbee

i just looked at mine and I see some bumbling. I cant tell if its just surface rust or if its going to be a problem. How do I find that out?

and how should i resolve it if its only surface rust? just sand it down and throw some por 15 on top?

Armelius

2pb posted on the poll that his engine fell out. Maybe he is a liar but do we have to wait until page two at the bottom of the page to find out that engines do not fall out?

I can compare a Maxima to any car out there usually do and will. You see I still own the maxima.

2da mizzax

iTrader: (4)

not much at all. pretty much just have to weld the sides to the frame (if you are replacing it). the annoying part was cutting the old one off. I cut the old one off myself. one of the guys at my buddys shop welded it back together. to cut it off i needed an air chisel and plenty of patience. and a drill to drill out the tack welds. and before i changed mine, it had broken off completely. motor sagged but didnt "fall out"

alcatranz518

iTrader: (8)

Does anyone have the part # of JUST the lower support? I cannot seem to find it available online, and as I said before, the parts guys at BOTH the dealerships by me are completely USELESS! They said I had to replace the whole support. (and insisted that) When I mentioned just the lower part, he said I was wrong and acted like I knew nothing about a car. I hate the people that work around here, nobody ever wants to help someone out.

The same thing happened when I had my second 3rd gen. I went needing a second key made (1st mistake was going to the dealer) But the guy working said that he couldn't wait to see all of those Max's off the road! Now this is a parts guy at my Nissan Dealer!! AHHH!!

Oh yeah, if anyone has been curious about my sig...It was quoted from a Nissan dealer parts associate as well, chuckling, of course.

2da mizzax

iTrader: (4)

you do have to replace the whole radiator support. only reason i changed just the lower half was because i took it off of another car.

alcatranz518

iTrader: (8)

?????
Now I'm confused

matty

iTrader: (54)

Its amazing the amount of information on this site that is garbage.

Nissan sells the lower section only, for $127. Its called a Tie rod support or something along those lines.

You DO NOT have to buy the entire peice

-matt

alcatranz518

iTrader: (8)

Can you give me the ph # to the dealer you goto, If you saw my post (#67), I have a small issue with the (2) dealers by me. If they cannot send it, I can at least get a # or name out of them. I just cannot take anymore ignorance.

matty

iTrader: (54)

David Burnette
South Point Nissan
888-254-6060

alcatranz518

iTrader: (8)

Sweet man, thanks so much! I owe ya one.

matty

iTrader: (54)

Lower Tie Bar
$117.03

http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...=5&catalogid=2

2da mizzax

iTrader: (4)

definately looks like a tie rod support to me. look at to tie rods being uplifted.


I was misinformed......................................y ou just made a dumbarse statement.

cpt

iTrader: (1)

A friend on mine is a fabricator/welder and we were planning on welding a piece this summer across the top and front. How hard is it to take off the bumper to get easier access to it. If not, it looks doable by just taking off the bottom plastic pieces.

Jatan

iTrader: (3)

Part #62530-40U00, easy to memorize (6-25-30-40-U-00) =P

shavedmax

iTrader: (6)

HUH? its called a lower tie bar. the one on top is the upper tie bar, the sides are called baffles.the middle is a vertical support or a lock support.

before you make assenine comments like that learn the nomenclature.

2da mizzax

iTrader: (4)

perhaps you should shut the hell up until you read and see that he called it a tie rod support you dolt. you know-it-all's kill me. if you had half a brain you would have been able to sense the sarcasm.

matty

iTrader: (54)

Hey jug head, I said "it is a Tie Rod Support or something along those lines"..>When did I ever say "It is a Tie Rod Support" ?? It was a good guess and I was just trying to help out.

You went totally too far with the sarcasm if you ask me.

-matt