matts95max

iTrader: (11)

I got the solid poly urethane motor mount bushing pressed into my stock mounts and now when I disengage the clutch the motor shakes like crazy and im affraid it is going to mess something up BAD! It is only from a stop going into first or backing out of somewhere. Its always does it the worst when I do anything from a stop and disengage the clutch at under 2k rpm. If im driving and shift at 3k rpm its fine. Is this normal? It shakes real bad and im scared im going to mess something up because of how it makes the whole car shake.
Thanks for the help, Matt

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

who installed the mounts afterwards? I would make sure that all the mounts are nice and tight AND that they are tightened the right way.... weight of car must be on all 4 wheels , all mounts loose, tighen cross-member bolts, then go rear, front, tranny, timing cover. By weight of car on ground I mean no jacks, jackstands, etc, just long arms, skinny belly, and cut the wheel all the way to the right and use extensions to reach the rear mount

matts95max

iTrader: (11)

so loosen all mounts. but leave subframe on with car on the ground then tighten the 4 mounts?

HarrisH

iTrader: (1)

My buddy has 2 ES Poly mounts, his car shakes like a **** too! I only have 1 ES mount in rear, and stock front mount mine hardly shakes.

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

yup, and I'm pretty sure the order is rear (long 1/2" extensions 17mm), then front, tranny, timing cover

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

by disengage do you mean let off the pedal? if so technically that's engaging the clutch. It sounds like you're experiencing clutch chatter, check the mounts first, if still then what type and what are the miles on your flywheel & clutch? you could also have a problem with the input shaft or a really rotted core support.....

matts95max

iTrader: (11)

well I just put a new clutch in, there is no noise coming from the clutch its just a lot of vibration. Im going to swap them out for stock.

dgeesaman

iTrader: (10)

Yeah you should have mentioned you changed the clutch, since this is a clutch problem.

Next time get your flywheel resurfaced. The poly engine mounts will make the shuddering feel worse, but the problem is still the flywheel.

Although I think you should buy a new clutch disc, since it's probably been worn unevenly by the flywheel. The pressure plate can probably be re-used, if it was only driven less than a thousand miles. But if you're paying a mechanic to do this, just have a whole new clutch put in. Sorry, but do it right, do it once.

Dave

matts95max

iTrader: (11)

no I had the flywheel resurfaced when I got the new clutch, I have about 1k on the set up now. I thought I did do it right by getting it resurfaced. I even torqued everything to spec

dgeesaman

iTrader: (10)

Pressure plate and flywheel were brand new?

Did you wipe down the flywheel and pressure plate with solvent so they were free of grease?

It sounds like I'm being a PITA but any of these things can cause this problem and ruin a new clutch.

matts95max

iTrader: (11)

well I sanded it just to get anything off, just a sheet of sand paper by hand

matts95max

iTrader: (11)

so whats gonna happen if I keep driving like this? is it really bad?

Sin

Assuming everything is installed correctly and nothing is broken, it's likely a resonance issue in terms of the way the engine mount has a much higher resonance frequency now that it is so much stiffer, and it just so happens to be in the range where the clutch slips and grips. The gripping of the clutch torques up the engine mount, eventually hitting the threshold where it has no more play, suddenly ramping up torque being transferred to the point of friction in the clutch and flywheel. When that happens, more slip occurs, unloading the engine mount, and that cycles rapidly. In principle, the same situation happens with axle hop/tramp, except the contact point becomes between the tire and road, and the suspension and all the various links and joints are the source of the stored tensile energy instead of the engine mounts.

MaximaSE96

iTrader: (8)

poly mounts will make u feel the engine alot more...thats y they are not poly from the factory

Sin

Stiffer mounts wil lmake you feel the engine alot more? Yes, in some ways but that's not the problem here. By feel more, by being more rigid, more vibration through the engine will be felt, especially at idle, and at start up. But stiffer mounts will not cause the resonance issue he is getting. What he is feeling is the clutch grabbing and slipping repeatedly, most likely as he is pulling away from a dead stop, because the engine mounts are flexing, then resisiting, repeatedly as a result of the clutch grabbing and slipping. Again, it's just like the axle hop we all know well, atleast the 5sp VLSD guys know.

The problem is the resonance. The ES bushings are either 60A or 80A durometer. Mine are well over double that durometer rating. My engine mounts are far stiffer than the ES ones, and I don't have that problem, commonly referred to as clutch chatter. So it's not that the stiffer mount is causing the problem because if it were, mine would chatter too. It's about a clutch and engine mount that are incompatible.

When I first got my ACT, it was a little chattery, and continued to be chattery until I stiffened up my mounts. After that, no more chatter. It's a matter of finding the right combination that works.

jac121479

iTrader: (10)

i've had a problem that sounds similar to yours. i also just put my tranny back in and i also just put in poly engine mouts.

as far as the engine mounts, you should feel a good shake at idle/neutral conditions. once you engage into gear it should smooth out as the engine is now torque loaded. either way, check your mounts and subframe connections as they may have loosened.

as far as the engine shaking on the engage (taking foot off clutch pedal while in gear only) of the clutch in first from a stop only, i had the same thing happen. it got worse and worse and i finally got so scared of the shaking i dropped the tranny again after installing a "new" performance clutch, pressure plate, & flywheel. once i dropped the tranny i immediately found the problem. the throw out bearing is held onto the shift fork by two metal clips. well, one of my clips was gone and the other was almost completely cracked off. also the wear point at the pressure plate (the metal fingers in the middle of the p.p) had been wearing badly.

by the info you have posted i'd say your throw out bearing is the cause.

Sin

Hmm, generally if the throw out bearing is the cause of the problem, there is usually noise to go with it as well. There would be a bit of a rattle if that were the case. Did you have a noise?

jac121479

iTrader: (10)

other than the noise of the entire vehicle shaking, no other obvious noises. bearing itself was in excellent condition. just the clips were bad.

Sin

I dunno. I'm doubtful only because I've had a similar situation. My throwout bearing clips were broken too. Entirely on one side, and a little on the other, I also had some marks on my pressure plate as well, and I never had shaking of any kind. I dunno man. My bet is still that it's a bad combo of mounts and clutch, but until he gets back to us after disassembling stuff no one will know, not even the original poster.

edit: The more I go over the limited information of symptoms and recent work, the more I think clutch chatter. Clutch chatter can be quite forceful and disturbing. Anyways, it remains, until things are disassembled, not much left to do.

jac121479

iTrader: (10)

if properly installed, it's not the mounts.

Sin

Something just came to mind. A good way to check is to have the hood open, someone standing to the side of the car beside the engine bay, and have the driver creep forward or back. If the engine seems to be torquing back and forth quickly, it'll likely be a clutch/mount incongruity. However, if it's more so general engine shake, likely to be some kind of clutch issue, i.e. clutch misallignment, or even throwout bearing failure.

dgeesaman

iTrader: (10)

So why do you guys think this isn't clutch shudder?

jac121479

iTrader: (10)

if he is running anything other than a racing clutch, i don't believe he would get the vibration he's describing.

jac121479

iTrader: (10)

not a bad idea! this should help isolate the problem to the clutch install or mount install and you can troubleshoot further from there.

dgeesaman

iTrader: (10)

Clutch shudder can sometimes get the whole front of the car shaking. If you change to a stiffer mount even a little chatter can feel like a jackhammer.

My old 86 accord (100hp) used to shake like mad when it had a chattery clutch. It was stock.

Dave

jac121479

iTrader: (10)

base on my experience w/ a maxima w/ an ACT clutch, pressure plate, and poly engine mounts, the only shaking i ever felt that was remotely similar to what was described in the original post happened only when i had a faulty t.o. bearing. it had nothing to do with my mounts or my clutch.

i'm not familiar w/ 86 accords but i guess that info is worth keeping in mind. personally, even what your describing on your accord sounds like more than just clutch shudder, but i wouldn't know.

dgeesaman

iTrader: (10)

It was clutch shudder. On that car, replacing it and resurfacing the flywheel solved it.

My point is that clutch shudder can make for some pretty severe shaking. It all depends on how badly the clutching surfaces are.

Dave

Sin

I agree, I definitely think it's a clutch shudder related issue. Whether it is a contaminated surface, or an incompatibility of clutch and mount, or worn/damaged mount allowing the shudder, I think it's shudder and not a throw out bearing issue.

jac121479

iTrader: (10)

matts95max, please post your findings once you drop you tranny.

dgeesaman

iTrader: (10)

You want to use solvent like brake cleaner. Particulate and rust dust aren't the problem, oil is. Oil will contaminate the clutch disk in spots and cause it to wear unevenly, which leads to the shudder.

Dave

shiftnatredline

iTrader: (1)

i put polys in mine but it doesn't shake noticably worse than stock. make sure they're facing the right direction. there is room for error in the way they sort of bend up and get skinnier at the top.

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

couldn't agree more if the mounts are all tight, but just wanted to add that junk input bearings can cause chatter also, but since he didn't have that to begin with......

kisas

I suspect my engine mount also has some problem, but don't know how to diagnose, any input is appreciated.