If using OEM Air intake, is it worth it to drop in a K&N Filter?
01-18-2007, 08:49 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,391
If using OEM Air intake, is it worth it to drop in a K&N Filter?
just wondering if there are any benefits of spending like 50 dollars to drop in a K&N filter instead of the paper air filter, while keeping the intake stock, my car is old ('97 with 208K on it so i dont need the filter to last forever, using 87 octane most of the time)
since it would let more air into the engine would it burn more gas (hurting my gas milage) and would i feel an increase in power when compared to the stock paper air filter?
i know it would sound better, but i dont want to hurt my gas milage!
since it would let more air into the engine would it burn more gas (hurting my gas milage) and would i feel an increase in power when compared to the stock paper air filter?
i know it would sound better, but i dont want to hurt my gas milage!
01-18-2007, 09:20 PM
#3
Originally Posted by 95jr6708
First of all, allowing more air = more effieciency = better gas milage...second...no.
01-19-2007, 05:27 AM
#6
Originally Posted by mastercater7
but if you think about it, wouldnt your mileage only drop if your hittin the gas hard? i would think it would breathe easier under normal driving conditions.
01-19-2007, 07:05 AM
#8
I had one and I didn't feel $hit or noticed any mileage problems. But I think that it should help mileage a little when you drive calmly b/c the engine is working less harder to suck in the air.
01-19-2007, 10:32 AM
#10
i dont think you will notice any difference in sound with just the K&N drop in filter. I highly doubt you will notice any difference in power, the gains would be so minimal. Although its still a good idea, K&N filters filter more then cheap paper ones will, and it will probably last longer then your car, assuming you periodically clean it.
On the topic of burning more fuel, when i got my cold air intake installed, i noticed a huge drop in gas mileage....but i contributed that to my lead foot, trust me if you go from stock intake to any sort of short ram or cold air you will have a hard time believing the intake makes so much noise. Everytime opportunity i had i put my foot down to hear the intake!! So theoretically if you have less restriction in the intake and exhaust you should get better gas mileage, because the engine does not have to overcome the restriction. but we all know you will like to "experience" the difference they made and therefore gas mileage will suffer.
On the topic of burning more fuel, when i got my cold air intake installed, i noticed a huge drop in gas mileage....but i contributed that to my lead foot, trust me if you go from stock intake to any sort of short ram or cold air you will have a hard time believing the intake makes so much noise. Everytime opportunity i had i put my foot down to hear the intake!! So theoretically if you have less restriction in the intake and exhaust you should get better gas mileage, because the engine does not have to overcome the restriction. but we all know you will like to "experience" the difference they made and therefore gas mileage will suffer.
01-19-2007, 10:38 AM
#11
Newbie - Just Registered
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 5
i recently got a stock 99 se with only 70k miles
2 weekends ago me and a buddy took apart the upper and lower VI to replace my knock sensor because i wanted to clean all the insides out with some brake cleaner (upper/lower VI, throttle body, iacv).
I also did my first oil change and dropped in a K&N while i was at it. Now it pulls harder/smoother, and the K&N did give it a nice noticeable mini-growl despite not having a CAI. Although the pull can be attributed mostly to the bad knock sensor, the mini-growl from the KN is the most obvious change. i probably won't do a CAI close to last until after the ypipe-> 00vi, just so i can get my money's worth on the filter =p
2 weekends ago me and a buddy took apart the upper and lower VI to replace my knock sensor because i wanted to clean all the insides out with some brake cleaner (upper/lower VI, throttle body, iacv). I also did my first oil change and dropped in a K&N while i was at it. Now it pulls harder/smoother, and the K&N did give it a nice noticeable mini-growl despite not having a CAI. Although the pull can be attributed mostly to the bad knock sensor, the mini-growl from the KN is the most obvious change. i probably won't do a CAI close to last until after the ypipe-> 00vi, just so i can get my money's worth on the filter =p
01-19-2007, 10:56 AM
#12
In another forum, they discussed the topic of stock vs K&N drop-in, vs Injen... K&N said you'd gain 6hp, but actual dyno showed a loss of 4. Injen's gave 6hp.
In defense of the 4hp loss w/the drop-in, maybe it was too hot after the initial dyno? But anyways, +/- a few hp on the dyno, sounds pretty hard to really tell the difference in real-world application. I'd do the K&N cuz here in Cali, you'd hafta change/clean your filter every other oil change, and each dealership filter's pretty pricey.
Jae
In defense of the 4hp loss w/the drop-in, maybe it was too hot after the initial dyno? But anyways, +/- a few hp on the dyno, sounds pretty hard to really tell the difference in real-world application. I'd do the K&N cuz here in Cali, you'd hafta change/clean your filter every other oil change, and each dealership filter's pretty pricey.
Jae
01-19-2007, 11:07 AM
#13
Originally Posted by 96blkonblkse
i dont think you will notice any difference in sound with just the K&N drop in filter. I highly doubt you will notice any difference in power, the gains would be so minimal. Although its still a good idea, K&N filters filter more then cheap paper ones will, and it will probably last longer then your car, assuming you periodically clean it.
On the topic of burning more fuel, when i got my cold air intake installed, i noticed a huge drop in gas mileage....but i contributed that to my lead foot, trust me if you go from stock intake to any sort of short ram or cold air you will have a hard time believing the intake makes so much noise. Everytime opportunity i had i put my foot down to hear the intake!! So theoretically if you have less restriction in the intake and exhaust you should get better gas mileage, because the engine does not have to overcome the restriction. but we all know you will like to "experience" the difference they made and therefore gas mileage will suffer.
On the topic of burning more fuel, when i got my cold air intake installed, i noticed a huge drop in gas mileage....but i contributed that to my lead foot, trust me if you go from stock intake to any sort of short ram or cold air you will have a hard time believing the intake makes so much noise. Everytime opportunity i had i put my foot down to hear the intake!! So theoretically if you have less restriction in the intake and exhaust you should get better gas mileage, because the engine does not have to overcome the restriction. but we all know you will like to "experience" the difference they made and therefore gas mileage will suffer.
everyone should read this before they say something.
01-19-2007, 11:09 AM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: a charming town in Connecticut first settled in the 1600s
Posts: 4,956
I regret spending my cash on a K&N drop-in filter. After running it for a year, I decided to replace it with a cheap Fram instead of purchasing a K&N cleaning kit. I noticed the following:
1) No increased performance. If there is any gain, and I doubt there is, you will not feel it.
2) No change in sound.
3) No measurable change in gas mileage. I kept weekly records of mileage with the K&N and without it over the course of two years and plotted it in a graph in Excel. In both cases I averaged around 24mpg.
I feel confident in saying that the K&N was a waste of money on my car.
1) No increased performance. If there is any gain, and I doubt there is, you will not feel it.
2) No change in sound.
3) No measurable change in gas mileage. I kept weekly records of mileage with the K&N and without it over the course of two years and plotted it in a graph in Excel. In both cases I averaged around 24mpg.
I feel confident in saying that the K&N was a waste of money on my car.
01-19-2007, 12:01 PM
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 6,190
I feel confident in saying that a K&N filter was not a waste of money.
My butt dyno tells me that I have more power with it. I then bought a Budget stainless steel y-pipe and like the combination of the two.
A K&N filter will not lower fuel economy.
However, one can't help but laugh at this post. The author wants to buy a K&N air filter, yet he runs 87 octane gas most of the time.
Do you have Husky or Mohawk gas stations in Toronto?
In Greater Vancouver I can buy 90 octane 10% ethanol gas at either Husky or Mohawk (the same company) at 87 octane prices. My Maxima loves it.
If this isn't available, I suggest you run 89 octane gas at a minimum.
In your case, the K&N filter would be a waste of money while you are running 87 octane gas.
My butt dyno tells me that I have more power with it. I then bought a Budget stainless steel y-pipe and like the combination of the two.
A K&N filter will not lower fuel economy.
However, one can't help but laugh at this post. The author wants to buy a K&N air filter, yet he runs 87 octane gas most of the time.
Do you have Husky or Mohawk gas stations in Toronto?
In Greater Vancouver I can buy 90 octane 10% ethanol gas at either Husky or Mohawk (the same company) at 87 octane prices. My Maxima loves it.
If this isn't available, I suggest you run 89 octane gas at a minimum.
In your case, the K&N filter would be a waste of money while you are running 87 octane gas.
01-19-2007, 12:05 PM
#16
Originally Posted by marky339
i recently got a stock 99 se with only 70k miles 2 weekends ago me and a buddy took apart the upper and lower VI to replace my knock sensor because i wanted to clean all the insides out with some brake cleaner (upper/lower VI, throttle body, iacv).
2 weekends ago me and a buddy took apart the upper and lower VI to replace my knock sensor because i wanted to clean all the insides out with some brake cleaner (upper/lower VI, throttle body, iacv).
01-19-2007, 01:13 PM
#18
Originally Posted by marky339
sry, i meant my manifold, but i'm getting itchy to get my vi =\
01-19-2007, 01:15 PM
#19
Proud Maxima Owner
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 436
I've tried K&N drop in, Stillen ram filter, and went back to stock set up with OEM nissan filter. Intake noise is gone, which I could care less about. Gained back my low end torque with the stock setup. Didn't notice any fuel lose/gain. I personally think performance intakes are useless unless your boosted IMO.
01-19-2007, 02:40 PM
#20
here is a thought. so you get a new filter that allows more air flow thru the filter. But what makes the engine suck in more air? Dont you think the engine is sucking up the most air it can already? so in sence giving more air to something that is already sucking the most air it can isn't really going to do much is it? Now if you had a dirty and clogged one yes. The main thing is when they say +6 hp dyno tested, they are testing Versus the most dirty and nasty filter again a K/N which is obviously going to show gains. But they dont tell you its dirty and its not false either.
01-19-2007, 02:52 PM
#21
Originally Posted by TurTLe*
here is a thought. so you get a new filter that allows more air flow thru the filter. But what makes the engine suck in more air? Dont you think the engine is sucking up the most air it can already? so in sence giving more air to something that is already sucking the most air it can isn't really going to do much is it? Now if you had a dirty and clogged one yes. The main thing is when they say +6 hp dyno tested, they are testing Versus the most dirty and nasty filter again a K/N which is obviously going to show gains. But they dont tell you its dirty and its not false either.
01-19-2007, 03:01 PM
#22
i see surface area as the throttle body. i dont care how big your filter is, in the end it all has to go thru throttle body. big TB= Bigger flow.
The case where intakes helps your car, are the cars with poorly design intake systems. A maxima is far from a poorly design air intake system. of course you can improve it by ooVI/ pathfinder TB and things like that. That actually make a real life gain that you cant not really argue. intakes on the other hand are highly arguable. What works for 1 car does not always work for the next.
The case where intakes helps your car, are the cars with poorly design intake systems. A maxima is far from a poorly design air intake system. of course you can improve it by ooVI/ pathfinder TB and things like that. That actually make a real life gain that you cant not really argue. intakes on the other hand are highly arguable. What works for 1 car does not always work for the next.
01-19-2007, 06:21 PM
#23
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,391
I See, well this confirms it, im going to stick with my Mastercraft paper airfilter
if there is more surface area then there is more space for the dirt particles to get trapped, where as if there is less surface area then there is less space for these particles to land, so they land on top of each other and clog the filter faster.
I think that if thats how the maxima was designed, if thats the type of filter that came with it, then thats what should be used. it was not designed to allow more airflow thru with that type of intake so why let more air in?
im sticking with paper because that makes sense in my situation
if there is more surface area then there is more space for the dirt particles to get trapped, where as if there is less surface area then there is less space for these particles to land, so they land on top of each other and clog the filter faster.
I think that if thats how the maxima was designed, if thats the type of filter that came with it, then thats what should be used. it was not designed to allow more airflow thru with that type of intake so why let more air in?
im sticking with paper because that makes sense in my situation
01-19-2007, 07:10 PM
#27
Originally Posted by 96blkonblkse
i dont think you will notice any difference in sound with just the K&N drop in filter. I highly doubt you will notice any difference in power, the gains would be so minimal. Although its still a good idea, K&N filters filter more then cheap paper ones will, and it will probably last longer then your car, assuming you periodically clean it.
On the topic of burning more fuel, when i got my cold air intake installed, i noticed a huge drop in gas mileage....but i contributed that to my lead foot, trust me if you go from stock intake to any sort of short ram or cold air you will have a hard time believing the intake makes so much noise. Everytime opportunity i had i put my foot down to hear the intake!! So theoretically if you have less restriction in the intake and exhaust you should get better gas mileage, because the engine does not have to overcome the restriction. but we all know you will like to "experience" the difference they made and therefore gas mileage will suffer.
On the topic of burning more fuel, when i got my cold air intake installed, i noticed a huge drop in gas mileage....but i contributed that to my lead foot, trust me if you go from stock intake to any sort of short ram or cold air you will have a hard time believing the intake makes so much noise. Everytime opportunity i had i put my foot down to hear the intake!! So theoretically if you have less restriction in the intake and exhaust you should get better gas mileage, because the engine does not have to overcome the restriction. but we all know you will like to "experience" the difference they made and therefore gas mileage will suffer.
best response in this thread.
01-19-2007, 08:49 PM
#29
Originally Posted by MDeezy
best response in this thread.
Oh well, power is good.
01-19-2007, 09:48 PM
#30
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 30
Some more things to consider,
Its all about less restriction so your car can breath. Paper filters clog easier, but it you replace them often then you have nothing to worry about. Wether filters such as K&N actually do make a differnce in power, who knows...but if they stay cleaner for longer then they will make a difference although not compared to a new paper filter. Same thing goes with mufflers, less restriction. Restriction is like friction robbing you of power.
As for intakes, the colder you can get the air going into the engine the more air and fuel you can cram into the combustion chamber since cooler air is more dense than warm air (ie occupies less space). The result is greater expansion/explosion per cylinder resulting greater power output. This is why drag racers love racing on cooler days rather than warmer days.
Higher flow across the same surface area does NOT eqaul less filtration because filters like K&N offer larger filtering surface areas (not the cross sectional area which is fixed) by offering more layers of filtration than paper filters. The oil aids in trapping the smallest particles while the other layers act like sifters, with each layer filtering out different size particles allowing the smaller particles to pass through to the next layer. This is how they are able to stay cleaner for longer. By filtering in layers you have increased the filtering surface area.
Lastly,
To think that Nissan or any other manufacturer designed the engines and all of its components to their maximum performance potential is rediculous, they designed them with the cost ratio of how much it costs to produce to how much they can sell them for. To raise the price tags they have to increase performance, but that does not mean they have optimized the performance. If this was the case then why did they not just add performance mods like headers, superchargers and strut braces and larger sway bars. These things eat at their profit margins as they cost more to produce.
Just my 2cnts
Its all about less restriction so your car can breath. Paper filters clog easier, but it you replace them often then you have nothing to worry about. Wether filters such as K&N actually do make a differnce in power, who knows...but if they stay cleaner for longer then they will make a difference although not compared to a new paper filter. Same thing goes with mufflers, less restriction. Restriction is like friction robbing you of power.
As for intakes, the colder you can get the air going into the engine the more air and fuel you can cram into the combustion chamber since cooler air is more dense than warm air (ie occupies less space). The result is greater expansion/explosion per cylinder resulting greater power output. This is why drag racers love racing on cooler days rather than warmer days.
Higher flow across the same surface area does NOT eqaul less filtration because filters like K&N offer larger filtering surface areas (not the cross sectional area which is fixed) by offering more layers of filtration than paper filters. The oil aids in trapping the smallest particles while the other layers act like sifters, with each layer filtering out different size particles allowing the smaller particles to pass through to the next layer. This is how they are able to stay cleaner for longer. By filtering in layers you have increased the filtering surface area.
Lastly,
To think that Nissan or any other manufacturer designed the engines and all of its components to their maximum performance potential is rediculous, they designed them with the cost ratio of how much it costs to produce to how much they can sell them for. To raise the price tags they have to increase performance, but that does not mean they have optimized the performance. If this was the case then why did they not just add performance mods like headers, superchargers and strut braces and larger sway bars. These things eat at their profit margins as they cost more to produce.
Just my 2cnts
01-20-2007, 07:26 AM
#32
so we've talked performance gains, but we also missed cost I'd say. Buying a K&N means not having to replace the filter ever again. Depending on how long you own the car and how often you change the filter. As for the oil issue. I've never had an issue and I personallyu don't think you would as long as you don't over oil the filter. Anyways that's just my personal opinion, I'm going outside now to tear apart my car some more.
01-20-2007, 10:34 AM
#33
thepartsbin.com
$10.95 oem
$38.88 K&N + free recharge kit with coupon at Kragen
I drive 20-25k miles/year. Assuming I clean/recharge my K&N 3x in that year, I nearly spend as much if I use replaceable paper filters. Recharge kits are $17.95, good for several uses. I don't even bother with the kit, I bought a gallon of cleaner and gallon of oil, good for a lifetime for me.
Jae
$10.95 oem
$38.88 K&N + free recharge kit with coupon at Kragen
I drive 20-25k miles/year. Assuming I clean/recharge my K&N 3x in that year, I nearly spend as much if I use replaceable paper filters. Recharge kits are $17.95, good for several uses. I don't even bother with the kit, I bought a gallon of cleaner and gallon of oil, good for a lifetime for me.
Jae
01-20-2007, 05:31 PM
#35
I just bought a 99 SE 5spd with 108K miles. I havent yet looked at the air filter but i would assume that it is a stock paper filter. I plan to replace the filter regardless if it is new or old. I do not plan on replacing the stock intake however, and i was just wondering if it is really worth the extra money to buy a K&N over a paper filter. Will there be more hp gain? Will the sound change at all?
01-21-2007, 06:43 AM
#37
Proud Maxima Owner
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 436
I found this test to be really informative tell me what you think. This was one of the main factors for me changing back to my OEM setup as well as stock filter. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm
01-21-2007, 08:05 AM
#38
Originally Posted by Trajiksmax
I found this test to be really informative tell me what you think. This was one of the main factors for me changing back to my OEM setup as well as stock filter.
01-21-2007, 11:24 AM
#39
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 467
Stay with the stock filter. I used a K&N for many miles and didn't realize how much low end torque I had lost using the thing until I replaced it with a Fram paper element. The K&N flows well, but I could really feel it down low, and that is the exact reason I liked the car originally...go low end for it's time and being a V6. Also...as others have said...the K&N flows better because it isn't filtering as well. Hold one up to a light or the sun and you will see many microscopic holes clear thru the filter. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that can't be good for filtration.