lower RPM's for $$cheap??
05-01-2007, 09:27 AM
#1
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lower RPM's for $$cheap??
I have a 96SE w 5speed (also 95SE w/ auto). Is it my imagination or does auto have different rear end ratio than 5speed? I love the highway cruise speed/RPMs of the auto in OD. I enjoy a five speed manual but never really liked ratios of Maxima 5speed...1st gear is like a tractor gear (I don't race/so think a Maxima needs this "stump-puller") and 5th gear is a bit too high rev ing for extended interstate driving at 75/80. I really don't see any significant need for more passing oomph above 2.5/3K RPM, since 3.0 Maxis are torquers to start with. What would be the most economical way of changing these "features" so I can stay below power band (approx. 3K+ RPM) to save gas and yet move out from stoplight without immediate shift into 2nd and quickly, again, into street "pulling" gear (3rd)? As I see it, my only $$ sensible options are: change rear-end ratios for all gears or change 5th gear ratio(swap to later model 5speed- but won't 1st gear ratios be same though?? Has anybody changed rear-end ratio (auto?)? Results........ ?
Thanks, Doug
Thanks, Doug
05-01-2007, 10:07 AM
#2
So you want to change the rear end on a front wheel drive car eh? 
Seriously though - there are a few taller 5th gears available for the 5spd. Also a taller final drive that would probably work too, but if you can't do the work yourself you are likely looking at probably $2000 for a small RPM drop - that's about as much as an entire 4th gen is worth these days.
Seriously though - there are a few taller 5th gears available for the 5spd. Also a taller final drive that would probably work too, but if you can't do the work yourself you are likely looking at probably $2000 for a small RPM drop - that's about as much as an entire 4th gen is worth these days.
05-01-2007, 10:25 AM
#4
Ditto here. It is as "simple" as finding a 5th gear with a lower ratio than .795 to replace the OEM part#3234128E04?
RS5F51A offered a .772 and RS5F50A from the late L30's is a .740. I also see an early L30 final gear of 3.65. That's a drop of 350rpm at 80mph for instance (or is it really even worth the trouble)
Neal, JClaw?
(ok, multiple replies while I was web searching stuff)
RS5F51A offered a .772 and RS5F50A from the late L30's is a .740. I also see an early L30 final gear of 3.65. That's a drop of 350rpm at 80mph for instance (or is it really even worth the trouble)
Neal, JClaw?
(ok, multiple replies while I was web searching stuff)
05-01-2007, 11:38 AM
#5
The .740 5th gear works in the 5spd trans, a couple guys have done it including Jclaw. I was thinking of doing it in my built trans if I can get the gearset for cheap, it's not worth enough to me to spend very much on it. Don't know of anyone who has done the 3.65 FD though I don't see any reason that it wouldn't work.
05-01-2007, 01:39 PM
#6
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you got me Neal!! 
My "Old school" rear end was really meant to= final drive ratio. I'm not familiar at all with FWD!! Anyway, you were kind to me!!! What changes the final drive ratios (auto v manual)? Is this what you were referring to for $2k? This would change both 1st ("stump-puller") as well as 5th (O.D.) wouldn't it? Shouldn't changing the final drive be less complicated/less $$ then rebuilding a 5speed and putting different gear(s) in?? Excuse my questions...but at least it seems like some other members are curious also. Thank You! Doug
My "Old school" rear end was really meant to= final drive ratio. I'm not familiar at all with FWD!! Anyway, you were kind to me!!! What changes the final drive ratios (auto v manual)? Is this what you were referring to for $2k? This would change both 1st ("stump-puller") as well as 5th (O.D.) wouldn't it? Shouldn't changing the final drive be less complicated/less $$ then rebuilding a 5speed and putting different gear(s) in?? Excuse my questions...but at least it seems like some other members are curious also. Thank You! Doug
05-02-2007, 12:57 AM
#7
Everything I've said and will say only pertains to the 5spd - the auto is a whole different animal and I've never been inside one and never bothered to look into any alternate parts for it so I don't know what, if any, off the shelf options there are for that.
The final drive gear is in the transmission - which means you have to take the transmission out of the car and take it apart to change it. You don't have to do a "complete" transmission teardown to replace the final drive gear, but you'd have to do a significant amount of work in there. It's possible to get the final drive out of the transmission without removing the gear selector shafts and input and main shaft, but it's not easy, and it would be even harder to get the final drive back in without removing the shafts but it can be done.
Changing the stock 3.82 FD to the 3.65 FD with no other changes would be - in my mind - pretty pointless. For instance - at 80mph you're turning approximately 3200rpm in 5th gear. Dropping the FD down to the 3.65 would have you turning like 3070rpm in 5th gear at 80mph which is only a 130rpm drop... So for that 130rpm reduction you'd have to pay someone to remove your transmission, partially take apart your transmission, replace the gear, put the trans back together, and put the trans back in the car. As you said already this 4.6% reduction in gearing would be across the board, in every gear.
Getting more involved, you could change 5th gear to the L30 Altima .740 5th gear. This would require a complete transmission teardown and rebuild. The shafts would have to be removed from the transmission and disassembled. Full transmission rebuild cost would surely apply, plus removal of the transmission from the car and reinstallation, plus the cost of the parts. My $2000 estimate was based on this, it was a shot in the dark, but I bet it wouldn't be too far off. Perhaps $1500 on the low end. If you can do any or all of the work yourself that would obviously make it more financially viable - but it'd be alot of work. A first timer would have to be pretty good around a to get it done in a weekend I'd say.
The .740 5th gear - with no other changes would yield a 2950rpm cruise at 80mph. It's a bit more effective than the FD change would be, but it'll also cost more. It would obviously only affect 5th gear RPMs, all others would remain unchanged.
You could combine the two changes, the .740 5th gear and the 3.65 FD, which would give an 80mph cruise RPM of about 2830.
Like I said in my previous post - I do not know if the 3.65 FD will work in your transmission. You might get in there only to find out that the 3.65 ring gear has a different bolt pattern than the stock one, in which case you're screwed unless you can find the diff that goes with it and are lucky enough that it goes right into the housing without any changes, etc. You'd want to do more research before going out and buying one.
Actually - I'd never run the numbers on this before and I'm kindof intrigued myself now - since my race trans is sitting in pieces on the shelf at work. I'm going to look into whether or not the 3.65 FD will bolt up to the open differential and if it does, I'm going to look into the cost of both the 3.65 and the .740 5th gear set.
The final drive gear is in the transmission - which means you have to take the transmission out of the car and take it apart to change it. You don't have to do a "complete" transmission teardown to replace the final drive gear, but you'd have to do a significant amount of work in there. It's possible to get the final drive out of the transmission without removing the gear selector shafts and input and main shaft, but it's not easy, and it would be even harder to get the final drive back in without removing the shafts but it can be done.
Changing the stock 3.82 FD to the 3.65 FD with no other changes would be - in my mind - pretty pointless. For instance - at 80mph you're turning approximately 3200rpm in 5th gear. Dropping the FD down to the 3.65 would have you turning like 3070rpm in 5th gear at 80mph which is only a 130rpm drop... So for that 130rpm reduction you'd have to pay someone to remove your transmission, partially take apart your transmission, replace the gear, put the trans back together, and put the trans back in the car. As you said already this 4.6% reduction in gearing would be across the board, in every gear.
Getting more involved, you could change 5th gear to the L30 Altima .740 5th gear. This would require a complete transmission teardown and rebuild. The shafts would have to be removed from the transmission and disassembled. Full transmission rebuild cost would surely apply, plus removal of the transmission from the car and reinstallation, plus the cost of the parts. My $2000 estimate was based on this, it was a shot in the dark, but I bet it wouldn't be too far off. Perhaps $1500 on the low end. If you can do any or all of the work yourself that would obviously make it more financially viable - but it'd be alot of work. A first timer would have to be pretty good around a to get it done in a weekend I'd say.
The .740 5th gear - with no other changes would yield a 2950rpm cruise at 80mph. It's a bit more effective than the FD change would be, but it'll also cost more. It would obviously only affect 5th gear RPMs, all others would remain unchanged.
You could combine the two changes, the .740 5th gear and the 3.65 FD, which would give an 80mph cruise RPM of about 2830.
Like I said in my previous post - I do not know if the 3.65 FD will work in your transmission. You might get in there only to find out that the 3.65 ring gear has a different bolt pattern than the stock one, in which case you're screwed unless you can find the diff that goes with it and are lucky enough that it goes right into the housing without any changes, etc. You'd want to do more research before going out and buying one.
Actually - I'd never run the numbers on this before and I'm kindof intrigued myself now - since my race trans is sitting in pieces on the shelf at work. I'm going to look into whether or not the 3.65 FD will bolt up to the open differential and if it does, I'm going to look into the cost of both the 3.65 and the .740 5th gear set.
05-02-2007, 08:04 AM
#8
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Nealoc, WOW! Thank you for the details!!! I really wish other members would take note of how HELPFUL we can be on this forum with facts and experience w/out "opinions and flames". I am probably going to do a rebuild of an extra 5speed (one day
) and I would greatly appreciate learning anything I can from your experiences!
When I do a rebuild, this sounds like a good time to rebuild with different 5th gear and maybe altered differential gearing? Seriously, thank you for the straight up posts with valuable info! Please PM me with anything you discover from your experiences- I greatly appreciate anything/everything you can share with me.
Doug Parker
) and I would greatly appreciate learning anything I can from your experiences! When I do a rebuild, this sounds like a good time to rebuild with different 5th gear and maybe altered differential gearing? Seriously, thank you for the straight up posts with valuable info! Please PM me with anything you discover from your experiences- I greatly appreciate anything/everything you can share with me. Doug Parker
06-14-2007, 08:11 PM
#12
L30's are 2nd gen aka 98-01 Altimas.
U13's aka 1st gen 93-97 Altimas also had 3.65's and .74's too.
Ironically I happen to have a spare 95 Altima transmission, unopened. I have it up for sale in the 4th gen F/S for $50+shipping for the whole transmission or $100+shipping for the gears if any of you want them.
U13's aka 1st gen 93-97 Altimas also had 3.65's and .74's too.
Ironically I happen to have a spare 95 Altima transmission, unopened. I have it up for sale in the 4th gen F/S for $50+shipping for the whole transmission or $100+shipping for the gears if any of you want them.
06-14-2007, 08:13 PM
#13
Originally Posted by Red Lion
L30's are 2nd gen aka 98-01 Altimas.
U13's aka 1st gen 93-97 Altimas also had 3.65's and .74's too.
Ironically I happen to have a spare 95 Altima transmission, unopened. I have it up for sale in the 4th gen F/S for $50+shipping for the whole transmission or $100+shipping for the gears if any of you want them.
U13's aka 1st gen 93-97 Altimas also had 3.65's and .74's too.
Ironically I happen to have a spare 95 Altima transmission, unopened. I have it up for sale in the 4th gen F/S for $50+shipping for the whole transmission or $100+shipping for the gears if any of you want them.
06-15-2007, 06:07 AM
#18
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Stick burns less gas then auto even though the stick has higher revs and shorter gears... which makes it fun cruising for a second in first at 3.8 k and then nailing it.... anyway although the revs are higher it will still burn less gas then an auto. I don't see the why you would want to lower the gear ratios. Get big rims with meaty tires on and that will solve your problem. But really the short gears is good for the mevi because the gear moves so fast to red line which gives you nice top end.
06-15-2007, 07:57 AM
#20
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That statement above only applies to hill climbing ... not traditional flat highway miles. The reason higher RPMs in 5Spd use less gas is because it takes less effort to get up the hill at the slightly higher RPM versus the auto will traditionally downshift to a much higher rpm.
06-15-2007, 05:56 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by NmexMAX
Explain in technical detail, how this is achieved.
06-16-2007, 05:25 AM
#22
Originally Posted by Streetracer95GX
An auto trans is like pulling more weight because it has to go so much things like torque converters and all that crap. An auto will use more air and fuel to get up to speed while a stick will use less fuel to get up to speed because it has less work to get through. Thats why when u drag race a stick is better for more speed and thats why a stick maxima is faster than an auto even when they do that auto trick thing where they make it shift really hard.
06-16-2007, 10:42 PM
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well i know more about transmissions then his dumbazz i use to swap out so many transmissions its not even funny. With my j30 i use to go back and forth to ny with an auto. Made it 5 speed from the 300zx trans. That shi* actually gave better gas milage so i don't know wtf heis talking about heis the one that needs research.
06-17-2007, 12:02 AM
#28
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conversion of a j30 fro mauto to 5spd ? from a 300zx ? isnt the 300zx rear wheel ? isnt the j30 front wheel ? how did u do this ?
auto tranny eats less gas on the highway, i cruise at 110 KM/H on my cruise control at 2300 RPM while u r at 3000 RPM in 5th - have u ever driven a 4th gen auto ?
auto tranny eats less gas on the highway, i cruise at 110 KM/H on my cruise control at 2300 RPM while u r at 3000 RPM in 5th - have u ever driven a 4th gen auto ?
06-17-2007, 01:03 AM
#29
Originally Posted by andrei3333
conversion of a j30 fro mauto to 5spd ? from a 300zx ? isnt the 300zx rear wheel ? isnt the j30 front wheel ? how did u do this ?
auto tranny eats less gas on the highway, i cruise at 110 KM/H on my cruise control at 2300 RPM while u r at 3000 RPM in 5th - have u ever driven a 4th gen auto ?
auto tranny eats less gas on the highway, i cruise at 110 KM/H on my cruise control at 2300 RPM while u r at 3000 RPM in 5th - have u ever driven a 4th gen auto ?
The J30 was basically a 4dr NA 300ZX. So yeah it's RWD.
Anyways, I doubt the 5 speeds get "better" highway mpgs. That AT is locked up, and the gearing is taller. I get pretty good mpg from my AT.
If you look around at new car MPG's, you'll find several models where the AT versions get 1 or 2 MPG better on highway miles. The power loss in an AT is negligible when the TC is locked up. Once an AT car gets going, it usually has it's TC locked up and is cruising taller gear ratio, so better MPG. This logic only applies to some cars.
06-17-2007, 07:47 AM
#30
Originally Posted by Streetracer95GX
im sorry its just the inexpreince IN SOME THINGS that people have and they think their soo smart and i am so dumb.. it just angers me...
06-17-2007, 09:59 AM
#31
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Originally Posted by made in china
uh oh you're gonna get flogged for that!
The J30 was basically a 4dr NA 300ZX. So yeah it's RWD.
Anyways, I doubt the 5 speeds get "better" highway mpgs. That AT is locked up, and the gearing is taller. I get pretty good mpg from my AT.
If you look around at new car MPG's, you'll find several models where the AT versions get 1 or 2 MPG better on highway miles. The power loss in an AT is negligible when the TC is locked up. Once an AT car gets going, it usually has it's TC locked up and is cruising taller gear ratio, so better MPG. This logic only applies to some cars.
The J30 was basically a 4dr NA 300ZX. So yeah it's RWD.
Anyways, I doubt the 5 speeds get "better" highway mpgs. That AT is locked up, and the gearing is taller. I get pretty good mpg from my AT.
If you look around at new car MPG's, you'll find several models where the AT versions get 1 or 2 MPG better on highway miles. The power loss in an AT is negligible when the TC is locked up. Once an AT car gets going, it usually has it's TC locked up and is cruising taller gear ratio, so better MPG. This logic only applies to some cars.
06-17-2007, 01:17 PM
#32
Originally Posted by Streetracer95GX
Well the j30 had a 4 speed auto so maybe when i bolted on the 5speed it got taller gears? O and the j30 sucked my best time was low 15s and that was alot of money spent on it.
I was talking about "some" cars, like my own AT Maxima and other new cars with 4/5/6AT that DO get better highway MPG's than their MT brothers.
perma
06-18-2007, 07:49 AM
#35
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Hey guys, my original post was strictly referring to changing manual gearing to get lower RPM's in 5th gear "interstate cruising" = better gas mileage. I also have a 95 auto; and it definitely gets better gas mileage on "steady speed" interstate driving...the OD definitely works! It drops RPM's a good bit below the 5speed's 5th gear (OD). I just wanted to know a little more about Altima 5th gear change and if changing the final drive was even a realistic option. With BOTH the 5th gear AND the final drive reduction (to 3.65?) I would achieve my desired goal...gear change w/out the final drive really doesn't seem to be the ideal gain. I fully realize that I would pay a bit in acceleration potential which I'm willing to trade for the increased highway gas mileage. Thanks for all the "on-topic" responses; I still wonder about the final drive issue, though. Thanks y'all! Doug
06-18-2007, 12:22 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by VQrebuild96
i heard about someone putting a resistor on a i think an maf or an iat for better gas mileage for long distant driving not sure if it will mess your car up...my 2 cents
08-03-2010, 02:21 AM
#38
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Gearing
So i now this is an old thread but did anyone in the end actually find out if the 3.65 would fit into the gearbox in place of the 3.8??
What i would like to know is has anyone ever had the 3.8 final drive gear from the manual on the workbench beside the 3.65 from the auto and compared them as i was wondering if they are interchangeable as nissan seems to like to use common parts quite alot on its vehicles.
Reason being i have a 4.13 final drive in a VQ20DE tranny and would like to change the final drive to either 3.8 or 3.65 auto like the VQ30de has so i can put the manual tranny onto a manual VQ30de as we donot have many manuals in New Zealand and my auto is on the way out.
If there is another thread that goes into this in more detail a link would be appreciated as so much here to sift thru and takes ages.
Cheers Vee
What i would like to know is has anyone ever had the 3.8 final drive gear from the manual on the workbench beside the 3.65 from the auto and compared them as i was wondering if they are interchangeable as nissan seems to like to use common parts quite alot on its vehicles.
Reason being i have a 4.13 final drive in a VQ20DE tranny and would like to change the final drive to either 3.8 or 3.65 auto like the VQ30de has so i can put the manual tranny onto a manual VQ30de as we donot have many manuals in New Zealand and my auto is on the way out.
If there is another thread that goes into this in more detail a link would be appreciated as so much here to sift thru and takes ages.
Cheers Vee
08-03-2010, 06:29 AM
#39
http://forums.maxima.org/supercharge...peeds-etc.html
Also, research the member JClaw, he tossed in a mixed and matches set of 2nd Gen Altima gears for better/more aggressive gearing in 1st, IIRC.
Also, research the member JClaw, he tossed in a mixed and matches set of 2nd Gen Altima gears for better/more aggressive gearing in 1st, IIRC.
08-03-2010, 09:33 AM
#40
So i now this is an old thread but did anyone in the end actually find out if the 3.65 would fit into the gearbox in place of the 3.8??
What i would like to know is has anyone ever had the 3.8 final drive gear from the manual on the workbench beside the 3.65 from the auto and compared them as i was wondering if they are interchangeable as nissan seems to like to use common parts quite alot on its vehicles.
Reason being i have a 4.13 final drive in a VQ20DE tranny and would like to change the final drive to either 3.8 or 3.65 auto like the VQ30de has so i can put the manual tranny onto a manual VQ30de as we donot have many manuals in New Zealand and my auto is on the way out.
If there is another thread that goes into this in more detail a link would be appreciated as so much here to sift thru and takes ages.Cheers Vee
What i would like to know is has anyone ever had the 3.8 final drive gear from the manual on the workbench beside the 3.65 from the auto and compared them as i was wondering if they are interchangeable as nissan seems to like to use common parts quite alot on its vehicles.
Reason being i have a 4.13 final drive in a VQ20DE tranny and would like to change the final drive to either 3.8 or 3.65 auto like the VQ30de has so i can put the manual tranny onto a manual VQ30de as we donot have many manuals in New Zealand and my auto is on the way out.
If there is another thread that goes into this in more detail a link would be appreciated as so much here to sift thru and takes ages.
Cheers VeeI never ended up looking in to the 3.65 FD. I still have multiple transmissions taken apart that I could test fit one in if I could easily find one, but I don't have the inclination to go searching very hard for one to test fit.