andrei3333

Looks like this




is it any better then a regular Fram or Mastercraft paper air filters ?

i assume dealer price for the filter is higher then department store air filters, but are they better for the money ?

slinky87

iTrader: (1)

screw the OEM go get you a cone filter.

andrei3333

no thats not why this thread was created

3 point slow

iTrader: (5)

I dont know about OEM and I know thats why the thread was created but I wanna give my .02 anyway. I always had good luck with K&N filters. They make ones that are direct replacements for your stock filters so there is no modding or anything like that. They get better airflow and everything stays 100% stock.

Blackwind

iTrader: (9)

i have to agerr with the new guy on this one. or you can go to schucks or auto zone. hell even wal-mart and get a filter. their no different from the ones the dealer sells.

sky jumper

that's not the OEM air filter. the top 2 are a purolator, or private-labeled equivalent (e.g. murray's "powerflow"). the metal frame is the give-away. I used one once, and it worked fine. the bottom one is different (it doesn't have same metal frame on the ends)

the OEM 0Z000 has a similar rigid frame as the bottom image, but it is cardboard, not metal. but the key difference with OEM is the oily paper media.

I do think the oily paper media is a better filter, but I haven't noticed any differences in my oil analyses to suggest the OEM is better. you can get the OEM for about the same price as Fram, so IMO might as well get OEM.

stay away from K&N. many bad oil reports with those things.

Blackwind

iTrader: (9)

really? do tell.

3 point slow

iTrader: (5)

Personally, I think the K&N oiling issues that arise are from people who dont read the directions properly when they re-oil them. Ive used K&N in all my vehicles for over 10 years now...never had an issue with them. I think they actually address this rumor on their site. Lemme see if I can find it. I need something to do while at work. lol

3 point slow

iTrader: (5)

Sweet...found it. This is from the K&N site : "Will a K&N filter cause my vehicle’s mass air sensor to fail?

No, it is both impossible and ridiculous.

It is impossible because we know that the oil treatment on our cotton is very small (usually less than 2 ounces). Once the oil is properly and evenly absorbed through the cotton, no oil will come off, even under extreme engine conditions. It is ridiculous, because no dealership or service provider has ever been able to provide us with evidence to support this “myth,” and in fact, our investigations have revealed that even authorized dealerships are simply speculating and do not have the test equipment necessary to know whether the sensor has failed or why. It is even more ridiculous because some car manufacturers use and sell air filters treated with oil on a regular basis. There are also major brands of disposable air filters that are treated with oil. We all use oil for the same reason, it helps in the filtration efficiency of an air filter. For more information on this topic including videos, see our Mass Air Flow Sensor Statement page.

Out of the millions of air filters we sell, we only receive a handful of consumer complaints each month that a dealership or service provider has blamed a vehicle sensor repair on our product. We take each complaint very seriously and see it as an opportunity to stop a consumer from being taken advantage of. We investigate the situation thoroughly and take full responsibility for resolving the issue. For more information on how we educate and persuade the service provider to reconsider their position, see Mass Air Flow Sensor Information & Testing. We are so confident in our ability to resolve these situations and help a consumer fight back that we offer our Consumer Protection Pledge.

As a result of our standing up for consumer rights and providing assistance to resolve a disagreement, we have had 77 actual sensors sent to us by dealerships who claimed our product had caused them to fail. Microscopic, electronic and chemical testing revealed that none of the 77 sensors were contaminated by K&N oil (K&N Detailed MAF Sensor Test Results). What is perhaps the single biggest clue to what is going on is that over 50% of these sensors were not broken in the first place for any reason. Click here for more information on how this may happen."

andrei3333

Those images were taken from http://parts.autopartsonlinecanada.c...art=Air+Filter

i am NOT getting any K&N Drop ins, right now there is a good deal at my local partsource, buy any K&N filter and get the recharge kit for 1 Cent (14.99 value)

regardless of what K&N will say to promote their air filters, all one needs to look at is the simple logic. More air flow=more dirt flow, less air flow=less dirt flow. thats why i am sticking with Paper type. there is no performance or MPG increase with a K&N drop in, and i dont mind buying and changing the filter instead of cleaning it. its actually a lot easier to use the disposable rather then taking the chance of over-oiling the K&N.

Sky jumper, i just got off the phone from the local department store and the local Nissan dealer; price for OEM is $21 + tax CAN, price for a paper filter from Canadian Tire is 11.62 + tax CAN

Is it worth double the price to get the OEM filter?

sky jumper

perhaps I wasn't clear. the problem with K&N air filters has nothing to do with oil on the MAF.

I said oil reports -- as in oil analysis. many cars that run K&N turn up high levels of silicon in the oil -- this is dirt ingested through the air filter, into the combustion chamber, past the rings, and into the oil -- sandblasting the pistons, rings, cylinder walls, and valves in the process. high aluminum, iron, and chromium almost always show up along with the high silicon. oil gurus call this "dusting" an engine, and K&N is well known for this problem.

it is worse if the filter is cleaned too often. some dirt in the media is necessary to increase filer efficiency.

it will not kill your motor next week, or even next year. but if you care about the longevity of your engine, you will not use K&N.

3 point slow

iTrader: (5)

Ok. I understand what youre saying. Hmmm...I dont know. I just know the product has been around for a long time, has a great history of being a great product and has minimal adverse effects. I'm not an oil guru and some of the terminology youre using sounds pretty scary but to be honost, I dont mind getting a new car once I reach 300k or so. I assume thats the ballpark youre referring to when you say "longevity of your engine".
All I know is it boosts hp a teeny tiny bit, sounds cool and saves me money on airfilters in the long run.
Without sounding sarcastic, thanks for teaching me some stuff, I had no idea!! I'll still always use K&N, though.

slinky87

iTrader: (1)

if you want to get a OEM replacment any parts store has the same ratings and just as good as nissans, as for drop in "performance filters" dont bother wasting your money. there almost the same price as a AEM dryflo which uses no oil and has higher efficency, and needs no cleaner. The AEM hit the mark with that cone filter but thats my .02

QBridge

I have the OEM one. It's OEM so it's fine plus it's only $9.

Jellyfishian

I also have OEM, this is what mine looks like today after about 7k... I like it I guess... I normally buy napa gold filters but the OEM one seems fine too..
(sorry for the low quality pic)

sky jumper

not it's not worth double the price. you can get the OEM online for about $7usd, which is about what a Fram costs in my area.

if your choices are $21can for OEM, or $10 for the ones pictured above -- get the one pictured above. it will work just fine. just double check to make sure the foam surround seals all the way around and there's no gaps. I've sometimes found gaps in the foam with some aftermarket filters.

andrei3333

Thanks, will do...

Jellyfishian that is a great picture of the air filter. Do you see the pattern of the inefficient design of the intake ? the air coming from the intake snorkel has to turn 180 Degrees to get to the TB, this leaves one half of the filter virtually unused. Thats why i flip/rotate my filter every time i get an oil change (5000 KM) to get more use out of it

Bobo

I have had a K&N panel filter for just over 3 years (16,300 miles). I inspected it recently and it is still good to go. I have never oiled it, but will consider doing so in about a year or so.

I will continue using it until someone can demonstrate to me that given the configuration of the OEM airbox and actual K&N panel air filter usage over a period of time, that a UOA shows continued use will be detrimental to my VQ engine.

I don't intend to waste the money on a UOA.

In the meantime, by butt dyno likes the performance of the K&N filter, coupled with my Budget y-pipe.

sky jumper

this is from a VQ35
1st UOA (3/05) had OEM air filter
2nd UOA (7/06) had K&N air filter

the difference is obvious.

this is but one data point. search the internet and you'll find dozens more, as well as a few that don't show obvious problems - are you one of the lucky ones?

you are playing russian roulette with your engine. if you won't spend $20 on an oil test to determine if your $40 air filter is working, you'll never know if you're sandblasting it or not...

99grnmaxgxe

iTrader: (11)

Hmmm the one the dealership gave me was yellow.

Bobo

I don't see any data points and even if I did, I wouldn't know how to interpret them.

Assuming the data points for the VQ35 worsened following the use of the K&N air filter, I would like to know:

1. What the mileage of the vehicle is?
2. OCI in each case.
3. driving conditions - highway/city (air pollution?), off road, dusty/road dirt, eg desert conditions etc.

TurTLe*

iTrader: (11)

i have an OEM one i picked up like $5-7 my cost which is a lot more discount then you can ever get. but no problems i put 10 on mines and its not as dirty as the picture above only had 1 spot thats darker then the rest.

maximafrenzy

iTrader: (11)

So what about the CAI, I never read anything like that when I researched and purchased my Stillen that comes with a K&N, I also recently cleaned and lightly as they recommend oiled my filter(although I have nightmares that oil and dirt are crawling up the pipe to the MAF). Is there a different cone filter for the CAIntakes?

Peebs187

K&N Stock Replacement filter works great for me...

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

I've used K&N, Fram, OEM, .

235k mile and still running strong. I should look into an oil analysis report, but at this point, I wouldn't care either way since this car has already paid itself off to me in many great years/miles of trouble free service.

If you want an OEM unit, get an OEM one, simple as that. I wouldn't think the decision would be this difficult.

sky jumper

huh? are you being facetious? honestly I can't tell. there's reams of data here. to learn what it means go here...http://www.blackstone-labs.com/gasol...port_expl.html

no assumption necessary -- the increase in wear is clearly obvious, even if you don't know what the numbers mean, you certainly understand that 44 ppm iron in your oil is worse than 10 ppm.

the increase in wear is roughly 400% overall, and 350% on a per mile basis. this is really bad.

again, this is clearly stated in the report --- "miles/hr on oil", "miles/hr on unit" . this is mileage or time on the oil/vehicle. along with the sample date.

driving style is mostly open highway. but that doesn't really matter here. if you study enough of these reports you'll see only a slight increase in dirt (and usually no abnormal wear) from dusty roads vs. clear highways -- because the air filter should be doing its job and keeping that dirt out.

in this case it is not working well at all, and even clear open highways are sandblasting this engine.

Bobo

What I am trying to tell you is that you haven't provided a link for the report.

I can't see it, in any event!

Jellyfishian

Dust storms/Dust Devils in the desert dont get along with air-filters :P

sky jumper

ok I see. try this...
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/9332/g35oil3nl0.jpg

I no longer have the original link to original thread that contained this report. I downloaded it long ago for my own reference, along with about 200 other reports showing various points of interest.

Bobo

My computer won't upload the above link.

So I thought I would do my own search on BITOG, of which I am a member.

In a recent thread on K&N air filters, a link was attached to a comment that Terry Dyson (Dyson Oil Analysis) made on 02/15/03: "I've had good results running K&N in race cars and my own vehicles. Until racing them I refused to use them in the regular cars. Silicon counts in testing that show high levels with K&N are usually the result of ripping the media or not reoiling properly. The key is properly cleaning and reservicing the media."

Given that I haven't cleaned or reoiled my air filter, and I read that K&N recommends they not be cleaned until at least 30k under normal conditions, I think I will hold off on cleaning mine for some time.

I found another comment in the above thread. This one was made by Gary Allan of Amsoil in December 2006. "Well, I've used K&N on my wife's Jeep for 5 years. I've done several UOA and didn't show any out of whack contaminant or wear metal indications."

I am prepared to run the risk of "sandblasting" for the foreseeable future. Given I have 68,400 mostly highway miles on the clock, I think my engine will last for another few years at the rate I am going.

sky jumper

do some more research. as i said before, you'll find many more negative experiences than positive ones.

Terry Dyson is one of the few people that defends K&N filters (and I don't know why), but even he admits the things need special servicing procedures to work properly -- and he runs oil tests for all of his clients he recommends them to, so he can monitor their performance. he does not recommend using them blind.

if you are prepared to risk it instead of getting a simple $20 oil test, then that is your choice. good luck.

Bobo

I take it the UOA should be done before the next oil change. If I could find a lab in Canada to send the sample to, perhaps I would consider it.

I couldn't be bothered with customs, USPS etc.

I digress, but I would still like to know why my Maxima gets better fuel economy than virtually every member of the 4th Gen Forum. This has nothing to do with a K&N air filter because it has always been the case in the 3 years I have been a member of the .org.

sky jumper

right. it's best to take a sample right before you change it, or as you are changing it. and you want at least 4k or 5k miles on it to get some good data. the bitog guys will help you interpret it. I know there are labs in Canada, I remember reading about them on bitog. I don't recall any names, though.

I would say your maxima gets such good mpg b/c of your driving style, 5sp, and Canadian gasoline. the best fuel economy I ever had was last summer on a fishing trip to chapleau, ontario. 32.x mpg with a bad knock sensor. the speed limit on the highways was something painfully slow like 80km/hr. so that no doubt helped the fuel economy. I think I paid about $7usd/gal for gas somewhere way out there.

Bobo

I'll post on the Canadian forum and see if I can get any insights into a Canadian lab.

I agree with you on the gasoline. I hate to say it but I think Canadian gas is better and I'm not sure why.

I suspect American tourists coming to Canada will get a shock this year, given the Canadian $ is the strongest it has been in many, many years (perhaps 20). The Cdn$ strengthened further today because the Bank of Canada suggested they will be raising interest rates next month.

When I went to Hawaii in November 2003 a US$ cost about Cdn$1.60. It's now Cdn$1.075.

Blackwind

iTrader: (9)

so i guess the boosted maximas are just destroying their motors?

andrei3333

I am not sure how much better Canadian gasoline is over american cause i have never ventured so far into the US to need to fill up (niagara falls is as far as i have driven my max).

Here is the MPG record i am keeping of, not counting the 29 MPG hwy trip, the average is 21.960 MPG. Now thats with the blown KS but the rest of the maintenance is very well done. Well within the 21 MPG (city) spec for a NEW auto max. PS: this is 100% 87 Octane

341.754/15.155 = 22.551mpg apr.11.07 (petro-canada)
316.899/15.208 = 20.838mpg apr.22.07 (petro-canada)
313.792/15.691 = 19.998mpg may.03.07 (petro-canada)
(229.907/7.925 = 29.010mpg may.04-05.07 Niagara Falls trip 120-140kph) (petro-canada)
347.968/14.259 = 24.403mpg may.11 (niagara trip + city hard driving avg) (petro-canada)
363.502/16.516 = 22.009mpg may.29.07 (petro-canada)

Basically to draw a conclusion from Bobo's and Sky Jumper's discussion i can say that i rather not risk the chance of over oiling a K&N filter and kill my maf or whatever else. The ease of swapping a paper filter cannot be underestimated. The fact that paper lets less contaminants into the system, compiled with the fact that (I believe) on an air filter a stock car will get better MPG results is even more reason to opt for the paper media.
I have read several discussions on BITOG on this and other oil analysis questions and its evident that this debate can go on for the length of eternity because people form their opinions and swear by their own results. The cold hard logical fact remains: more air = more contaminants, less air = less contaminants!

PS: just make sure u rotate the filter every time u change ur oil as Jellyfishian's picture above shows a great example of the inefficient nissan 180 degree design.

Blackwind

iTrader: (9)

the only thing i can say is that my milage per tank is around 420-435 and i have a k&n panel filter. i have also had a k&n cone filter on a short ram, and a fender CAI. it sounds like your really concerned about the milage. but from the sound of it, you never drive your car that far anyway to have gas milage be a factor.

andrei3333

I drive enough in the city. I live in Toronto, the largest city in Canada we have the hwy 401 which is the busiest and longest HWY in North America. Yes i still get stuck in traffic. I havent taken any long trips because i got my maxima last oct 06 and there is no reason to travel that far in the winter. This summer it will be a different story. I care about MPG a lot and it makes no difference how far my single longest trip is, the fact of the matter is that i travel to work and back everyday and go out on weekends.

Bobo

Your gas mileage is horrendous, if you are equating it in miles to an Imperial gallon.

Have you never used anything other than 87 octane? I've never used 87 and don't intend to ever use it.

andrei3333

im converting kilometers and litres into mpg, basically today i filled up 62.502 Litres after driving 585 KM (for $107.2 $65)

that mileage is the same as nissan advertises it as. my car is not modified with a broken KS, so i think that mileage is pretty good for big city driving.