bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

I have now taken the front brakes on and off the 99 3 times now. The last 2 times are in effort to rid the car of the dreaded "brake squeal".

To further explain, I originally used 3 shim pieces in my first install as follows:

2 shims that go directly on the back of the pad, which are coated in sort of a rubber.

1 shim that goes on the brake pad that the caliper pushes against. It is uncoated, bare metal.

I used nothing else in the kit (I believe there were "retaining springs" that my aftermarket pads couldn't utilitize anyway.

Naturally, the brake squeal was awful with this setup. So, I took them apart again, this time coating the front and back of each shim with blue goop.

Results: Wonderful for 2 weeks. Then the squeal became progressively worse again.

This past weekend, took them apart for the third time, only this time completely removing the bare metal shim (the caliper had simply warn away the blue goop on the outside of the bare metal shim and that's why I had the squeal), and recoating everything in blue goop.

I guess what I'm saying is using anything other than the rubber coated shims and blue goop will cause some squealing issues........

Daniel,

I'm curious as to how you cured any squealing problems and what brake shims you are using (if any). From what I've gathered, you use Raybestos pads and don't report squealing problems, and often suggest blue goop for curing squealing ills. Others are welcome to input as well.

deezo

iTrader: (3)

I also noticed that if your brake pads get contaminated with debris, the brakes will make noise. I have a slight squeal on the right front and I need to do what you did and take the brake apart and see if anything is out of place. I don't remember leaving any clips out those and I have metal matrix pads. After the install, nothing was left over.

Daniel B. Martin

Bill, you have done everything right. I cannot account for the persistence of brake squeal.

The factory pads have those V-shaped Pad Return Springs (item 19 in the exploded view diagram in the Chilton repair manual, page 9-7). The tips of these springs fit into holes in the edges of the steel backing plate of each brake pad. Please consider ...
- drilling holes in the edges of the aftermarket pads, and using those Pad Return Springs.
- applying another coating of Blue Goo on the aftermarket pads in hopes it will provide a lasting benefit.
- replacing the almost-new aftermarket pads with Nissan factory pads (last resort).

Did your aftermarket pads have a chamfer (a bevel) on the leading and trailing edges of each pad's friction material? If not, use a hand file or an electric grinder to create that chamfer.

I hesitate to recommend one brand of product over another. I've had good results with Raybestos but that was with replacement pads on other models of Nissan vehicles. Plain Jane (my '99 GXE) still has lots of life in the factory pads so I have not done a brake job on her yet. Her brakes have always been perfectly silent (but the same can't be said for her clutch).

Maxwell

Bill and Daniel, I looked for name brand Blue Goo (or is it Goop?) and couldn't find it at either Autozone or Advance Auto. Where did you guys buy it?

Also, Daniel, is the filing of the pads' edges a remedy for squealing or a normal procedure when installing new pads? I've never done that, and I've also never had squealing brakes (the only cars whose brake pads I've changed were an '85 and an '87 Honda Accord, and I didn't used Blue Goo on those because I didn't know about it).

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

Originally posted by Daniel B. Martin


This is probably my next step, although I am ignorant as to why this would work or is even necessary. It seems like an unnecessary safety feature to me......:gotme". Could you elaborate on what they do?



In the past (on my 94 Max), the Nissan hardware kit for 3rd gens never had this piece that went on the caliper contact side only, just the 2 rubber coated shims for each side. Those, along with blue goop, kept my Max squeal free for a couple of years (which is perfectly acceptable to me), until the caliper wore down the blue goop and rubber coating.

[speculation]
I assume Nissan added the all metal piece on the caliper side to prevent the caliper from wearing out the rubber coated shim in the first place. But, then, THAT's what caused my problems in the first place. It must be a combination of the retaining y-springs and the extra metal shim that keeps it a little "tighter" to prevent that extra metal shim from moving around......
[/speculation]



I'd rather live with squealing...........



Yes, the Axxis Metal Masters do have the chamfer.

Ok, so that experience was from the Stanza. My bad.

The pads on the 99 were fine as well, but the rotor shimmy was annoying at 30k. Since I don't believe in turning stock rotors, I replaced them with Brembo blank rotors.......

Mustang1999

If the blue goo you are talking about is for brake squeal and you put it on the brake pads themselves, well you aren't going to find a brand name "Blue Goop" I found it at Autozone and it is in a blue box/cardboard backing with plastic holder thingy (tech term yes ) I found it on the isle with the super glue and all that stuff, it was hanging on a peg. The package itself that holds the blue goo is white with blue lettering, I can't remember the name of it or I would tell you. It's like $1.99 and you get two packets, you will only need one for the brake changing. Hope I'm not just rambling on about the wrong thing.

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

Originally posted by Maxwell


I got mine at Advance Auto. It's called Disc Brake Quiet. Blue Package, usually comes in two packets. It's around all of the Loctite and adhesive stuff or at the front of the parts counter.

Look for the oldest employee in the store and ask them (usually ONLY work in the daytime during the week). They will know what you are talking about. DON'T ask the teenager who is staring at the chest of the female cashier....they won't have a clue....

Daniel B. Martin

Judging by appearance, those Pad Return Springs push the pads away from the rotor. How and why this is beneficial, I don't know.

Plain Jane replaced a Stanza which served long and well. The Stanza brakes were always quiet. I also have a POS '84 Nissan pickup which I bought last year. The purchase price was only $1 because the motor was dead. I repaired the motor, repaired a broken seat mechanism, and installed new brakes all around. The brakes don't squeal.

Daniel B. Martin

Some brands of replacement brake pads come with a single-use tube of Blue Goo right in the box. Blue Goo (or equivalent products) may be bought separately but I've never needed to do this. Ask for Permatex Disk Brake Quiet. See http://www.permatex.com/products/pro...&item_no=80077

It is a remedy for squealing. Many replacement brake pads are made with a chamfer.

Brake squeal is common, yet mysterious. Some makes of car seem completely free of it, and others exhibit truly loud and objectionable squealing. Some pads have chamfers, others don't. Car makers all over the world have been using disk brakes for 30 years and more. You might think they would have solved this problem by now, but they haven't.

playas33

I think it's luck of the draw...some pads don't make any sound some will squeal no matter how much goo you put on...I have tried bendix and raybestos, some squealed and some didn't. I just remember it's metal to metal contact, and it bring attention to my car so people can marvel at the beauty of the MAX, kinda like a public service to them.

JMAX95

I think there is a difference with the springs on. I've noticed that sometimes when I back up, I hear one of rear pads rubbing against the rotor. The rears on my 95 are aftermarket pad without the hole for the return springs. Fronts I've stuck with Nissan originals. My guess is that the springs keep the pads straight so that they don't wear unevenly. Plus it keeps the pads from dragging on the rotors.

Eric L.

Another antisqueal product I have had good results with is CRC Disc Brake Quiet from Napa. It comes in a squeeze bottle, and is red color. One bottle should be enough for three or four brake jobs at least. Bill, since you seem to use up this stuff faster than my Maxima burns gas, get a bottle of this and forget the little packets of blue goo.

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Murphy_TX_Mike
[B]Hmmm....OK.....makes sense......

Thanks for the input Mike!

Mishmosh

iTrader: (3)

I used this as well. After application, you are supposed to let it sit for 10 minutes before installation. For me, I get no squeal at all -- it's been about 2 months now with my Porterfield pads.

JMAX95

I believe the goo product just "covers up" the noise problem; doesn't actually "fix" it. Because when the goo's off, the noise is back. I don't see any new cars with squeaky brakes. Plus the new cars don't roll off the dealership with blue goo on it. It must be a specific part causing it, but I have no idea which.

Mishmosh

iTrader: (3)

The OEM shims do appear to have some kind of rubberized coating. The anti-squeal compounds actually serve in this capacity and prevents movement between surfaces. In between the pad and the shim, the goo just sits there...it does not go anywhere or wear out.

Re: springs. I'm not buying in to their role as a major antisqueal component. Based on how tight my pads are in the grooves and how piddly these springs are, I doubt very much that they add much in the way of tension. Also, so many have reported success without them and you don't see these things on other cars and they are just fine.

You might also want to consider applying antisqueal compound to the retaining brackets that go on the two ends of the pads to hold them to the caliper housing. These too can vibrate and cause noise.

JMAX95

Makes sense that the springs don't have any effect on the squeal. I think the springs' purpose is too keep the pads off the rotor. Purhaps to have the pads wear evenly. If one of the pads is dragging, I don't think you can tell while driving. I still think there should be a way to keep the brakes quiet without using goo. Maybe I'm wrong.

max808

How does the goo come off if it's in between the pad and the shim?

goldmax

Get a new set of shims, clips, etc. from Nissan and use those. I've never had anything but temporary success with any of that goo stuff, regardless of brand or cost. The factory shims are the best out there and should be used even if you have another brand of brake pad. I'm using them now on Porterfields and everything is quiet. Also, check the brake piston for gouges that you may have created when turning the piston in to give room for the new pads. That metal is very soft and it's easy to booger up the metal on the edges of the 4 slots if you don't use the right tool. No amount of goop or shims will prevent noise if you have that situation.

Maxwell

The blue goo doesn't go between the pad and shim, it's applied to the back of the shim when it's already on the pad.

JMAX95

Well, I've never used it, so I really don't know anything about it. But if it's not permanent how can it not come off? If you squashed a tuna fish sandwich, the tuna fish would come off the sides, giving you less in the middle, right? So I was thinking that this goo stuff won't last that long. But again, only a guess, cuz I never used it.