blackcurrant

Let's put are collective knowledge together and confirm how best to align the max; which settings are best; and let's reveal any quirks we've encountered.


I've discovered a few facts from my brief experience attempting to perfect my cars handling:

Although the caster is typically claimed to be non-adjustable, there is just a little bit of play in the strut tower holes for maximizing the positive angle to 2.7 each side. Of course, a drill and some time can extend that, but, a good alignment tech will try to get 2.7.

camber: This one has a real fine post in the max FAQ by andi.

toe: my car had a jittery ride and was 'nervous' on the highway. Bumps would upset it easier than expected. My toe was .13L and .04R. When they were both adjusted to 0.10 she was steadier on the highway.

Some questions:

Anyone actually do alignments with the machines?

Is there a way to 'fudge' the numbers to make it look right?

mzmtg

iTrader: (11)

You're right, alignment is a fine art.

Since camber and caster arent really adjustable on our cars, the best bet is to try to play with the bolt holes until the settings are the same on each side of the car. It is usually differnces from side to side that cause a pull or instability.

The same applies to the rear of the car. There, nothing is adjustable, but bolt play can be used...a little.

The hard part is finding a tech who will take the time to do these things for you. Most will just get it into the wide factory specs and spend the rest of the time trying to convince you that's good enough.

It's not.

Daniel B. Martin

I looked for this and could not find it. Please provide a more specific pointer.

Toolrocks

iTrader: (1)

I've had my car lowered with Intrax and Tokicos. The car seemed a little nervous as you stated and my steering wheel was no longer centered. I went to get an alignment figuring something was up. The shop I dealt with was a hassle. First I had to put my stock rims back on so they would have a 'lip' to attach the machine to (not a big deal, but a pain). Then, they tried to tell me that they did a 4 wheel alignment. (I know that can't be done) After all was said and done I got some startling numbers on my alignment report. Keep these in mind as you read the #s, 1)the guy said he finally got the car to track straight, and 2)while he was driving the car he got pulled over and given a 'tint' repair order. My alignment has now cost me out the A$$, oh well, anything to make my car right.

FRONT
Angle Initial Final
Caster L 2.7 2.7
Caster R 3.0 3.0

Camber L -1.2 -1.3
Camber R -1.1 -1.1

Toe I won't bother you with, they are in spec. So far my caster is wacked and the camber is out of spec too.


NOW FOR THE REAR (rem. I got a 4 wheel align) LOL!!
Angle Initial Final
Camber L -1.2 -1.2
Camber R -1.2 -1.2

Toe L 0.10 0.10
Toe R 0.40 0.40
Toe Total 0.50 0.50

I must have stubbed my rear right toe? HAHA that number is way out of the spec range of -0.15 -0.05 So, whats bent?
Daniel B, can you see anything with these numbers? The car rides straight now, the steering wheel is still off center, the guy said he couldn't get my thrust angle to 0 so it's -0.2 My tires aren't wearing funny that I can tell. I rotate them often though. The car seems a little darty, but the handling is definitely better than stock. I want to get another alignment at a GOOD shop, maybe that deals w/ lowered cars? Is there a special machine for lowered cars? The guy said his machine was 'new' and needed to shoot a laser to all 4 wheels, with the car lowered the laser didn't want to pass under the car to the other side of wheels. What to do? If you're still reading this thanks.

BossmaX

..did all of you guys get alignment reports?.. i didn't get jack when i did mine yesterday, and my car still doesn't seem right.

Daniel B. Martin

I know that "darty" feeling, and believe it has more to do with tires than alignment.

Something is bent, and it is probably the rear beam axle.

Find a shop which can tell you what has been bent. If the car has ever been in a crash you need a body shop with a laser measurement system. If the car has never taken a hit, we may assume the axle is bent. A good alignment shop will have a hydraulic bender which can correct this problem. Example: Ingalls Engineering #1036 I-beam bender. http://www.ingallseng.com/images/1036.jpg

njmaxseltd

iTrader: (19)

Nice post!! You definately need to go to another alignment shop, one that deals with special set ups. Sometimes a good aftermarket wheel shop will have the laser system.

It's true our cars have no "adjustment" for the rear alignment, however, you DO NEED to shoot all 4 wheels in order to get the thrust angle. (car goes straight with steering wheel straight) If you align the front wheels to point straight ahead and your car is on the alignment rack a few degrees off center, a 2 wheel alignment will cause your steeting wheel to be off center with a perfect alignment.

A good shop should be able to pull the numbers EQUAL on both sides by tweeking the suspension lose, moving things around with the play in bolt holes and tightening it all up again. Unless you have a bent subframe, you should be able to get the car aligned with EQUAL numbers on both sides. The key to the job is getting both sides EQUAL. I know of 2 shops here in NJ that do great work. Muzzio in Ridgewood and Precision Tire on Rt17 in HoHoKus?. (I think) These guys know their stuff.

Talk to the tech. at the shop 1st and tell them what you want out of the job. The key being both sides EQUAL and within the specs. of the car.

Daniel B. Martin

A good alignment shop gives every customer a Before and After printout. Some shops do it only on request. If they say "our alignment machine doesn't have printout capability" take your business elsewhere.

blackcurrant

http://web2.airmail.net/scutchen/max_faq/

Toolrocks

iTrader: (1)

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone posting here. Thank you to Daniel B. especially for confirming my worst fear. I hope you don't mind Daniel but I have a few more questions for you: My car has been wrecked so I will have a shop do the measurements, assuming it is my axle and not the unibody, are you saying that the Ingalls Engineering #1036 I-beam bender will straighten the axle? I am pretty sure that is what you mean but I am curious if this is a fairly common procedure and as easy as it sounds? I would expect it to cost a good bit, but if my axle is bent, should I just plan on getting a new or remanufactured one? Would that be better than 'rebending' or straigtening the original? Thanks again.

Daniel B. Martin

I offered the Ingalls #1036 as one example of an axle bender. I believe there are others. Many Ford pickup trucks have the Twin I-beam front suspension and bending those beams is the routine procedure for adjusting the camber during alignment, so this is a common procedure. Find an alignment shop that does light trucks and they will have an axle bender.

The beam bender is hooked onto the axle while the car is on the alignment rack. The axle is not removed for the bending process. I hesitate to predict what somebody in another town will charge for service. My guess is they will charge their standard fee for alignment plus an additional US$20 for the axle bending. It is no big deal.

chris j vurnis

I was once interested in those beam axle benders -- but now my car handles well enough that I don't want to mess with it any more. Goes nice and straight when I let go of the wheel.

blackcurrant

Our GM minivan tracks straighter on the highway than my Max!

What is it about these cars? It's still darty and wanders on the highway. After my 40 mile commute i'm worn out from working to keep her on the road. Surely, these cars aren't designed to be that way?