That famous crunch kind of grind noise that some of us on here including myself hear after we lower our cars has been driving me NUTS for about 2 weeks now. I told you guys I would figure out what it was for sure, and I did. This is kind of tough to explain so stick with me here.

The OEM spring on our Max's have 3 sets of isolation sleeves. 2 which are grey in color which were on the top coil and bottom coil positioned right at either end of the spring and one black piece which was on a lower coil just about the lower grey sleeve. Follow me so far???? These covers (lets just call them that) isolate the spring coils from each other and prevent metal to metal contact when the spring compresses and the coils contact each other. The first and second coil do lay on top of each other slightly once preload (car weight) is put on them. (take a slinky or a spring from a pen and look how it sits compressed)

Guys on this board are reporting 2 types of spring noise, one is a rattle over bumps and the other is the crunch grind clunk noise when the steering wheel is turned. The rattle noise is probably caused by not putting these isolation covers or sleeves back on the new springs when they are installed. As the spring compresses the coils come in contact with each other and if there is nothing there to protect them you have metal to metal contact. METAL HITTING METAL=NOISE

Now the second type of noise we report on here is the crunch clunk when the steering wheel is turned. This is what I had for the past 2 weeks which drove me nuts. First off you must be absolutely sure it's not coming from the strut bearing, I highly recommend replacing this part when you do strut/spring work. It's good insurance and it's cheap. (40 bucks for ths set) OK so where is the noise coming from??? This was tricky but I've found the source. When we turn the steering wheel we turn the hub which is connected to the lower strut mount which in turn turns the strut. So the entire assembly turns, including the spring. The force to turn the spring comes from the strut it rests upon. (lower spring seat on the strut turns) A turning force pressure is applied to the lower coil of the spring, the spring must transmit a "TWIST" motion up to the upper strut mount thus causing the entire assembly to turn on the upper strut bearing. Now if you were to take a small spring in your hands like from a pen and twist it but hold one end still, the spring (depending on what direction you twist it) will either wind tight or try to unwind. Here's where our noise happens. I've noticed and felt this on my H&Rs. As you turn the wheel slightly back and forth you can actually feel the force on the spring winding and unwinding ever so slightly. This causes just a slight bit of movement as the coils want to slightly slip against each other. Keep in mind the lower coils are resting on top of each other for about 1/2 a coil turn. This slight movement and rubbing of the spring against these plastic sleeves is where the noise comes from. You can actually feel this in the spring as it happens. It's a slight jumpy jittery feel on the spring itself. I've removed the black sleeve and test drove my car, and the noise totally changed. Next I put it back but sprayed oil all over the area where the springs contact each other. NOISE IS GONE but not for long.

So here's how to tell if this is happening with your car. Turn the steering wheel one full turn to the left. Go to the right front wheel, (most report this is the side we hear) have a buddy in the car ready to rotate the steering slightly to make the noise happen. (carefull he doenst turn to much catching your arm in the wheel well). Grab your spring with your hand, feel around the back of the strut, on the lower coils right where the two coils sit on top of each other, there's only about 1/2 a coil that actually sits on top of each other on the bottom facing inward so you cant see it, you can only feel it. Put your fingers right on that crack where the two springs are against each other and have your buddy turn the steering wheel about 1/4 turn or so back and forth. You can actually feel the spring moving against each other and at the same time feel the slight jump jitter what ever you want to call it and hear it as well. This is the noise we are hearing! It's spring noise! Keep in mind this may be happening on the top coils as well.

NOW THE FIX:
I'm going to play around a little, I'm headed to my local speed shop to see if he sells any rubber or heavy duty sleeves for springs. I may even try to make my own out of a piece of high pressure hose sliced down the middle. If you can get the spring to stop moving against each other or just isloate it really good with new sleeves or rubber covers, the noise will stop.


Well thats all I have on this topic, sorry for the long post but I hope it helps you guys/girls out in tracking down the noises we hear when we install springs/struts and lower our cars. I'm confident with my findings and will have a silent car once again.

 

...there were only the upper and lower sleeves on my stockies. But I bet the third one you refer to just fell off in old age. So It goes on top of the lower coil? In between the first and second lower coils? Makes sense because I definately have metal - metal contact there. Sounds like the answer we've been looking all over for.

You da man!

 

This is a good idea. A suggestion... instead of slicing the hose down the middle, use a sharp utility knife to make a careful helix cut from one end of the hose to the other. Install this homemade coil isolator by twisting it on. This "barbershop pole" shape is more likely to stay in place than a simple sliced hose.

 

Excellent addition to this thread. Thank you Mr. Martin!

 

I just tried the rubber hose isolator mod. Here's what happened:
I used 1/2 inch ID shop air hose. It's reinforced so I figured it would take the pressure of the spring on it. I cut a piece about 4 - 5 inches long. Sliced it down barber pole style, you have to cut it that way or it will want to slip right off. Thanks again Daniel for that little bit of info. I wrapped it around the lower coil starting where the last coil rests in the strut. So only where the spring coils would touch is where the hose is applied. I did both sides and took the car for a ride.

Results - MUCH MUCH better. Only a slight bit of noise when you parallel park the car or really turn the wheels hard left or right. No noise at all under normal driving conditions, left or right hand turns.

I also called H&R (888)827-8881 and spoke with a rep there. I told him what my symptoms were as far as noise goes. He stated that there were no complaints regarding noise with our model cars. I pointed him to the .org and said a few of us on here have the same exact problems. The conclusion was that you do need isolators on the springs where coils contact each other. H&R does not sell any isolators for their springs. He also suggested going to the dealer (Nissan) and asking their technicians if they have encountered cars which make noises after spring/strut work and what they do to eliminate it.

Well the post goes on, I hope this info. is helpful. I'm almost 100% satisified with the elimination of the spring noise. If anybody else gives this mod a shot, please post your results on here.

 

I actually put all the rubber sleeves back on, new dust covers, everything...the right rear is CLANKING over bumps, not on turns. It's incredibly awful sounding, and I'm not sure what to do. Nothing else is making a noise.

 

How about buying the spacers, getting them put on and stop the moaning?

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by njmaxseltd
[B]I just tried the rubber hose isolator mod.

Thanks for the write up. I'm having the same problem and its driving me nuts. Did you have to take the spring out to try the rubber hose?Or can I get the hose in there without taking it out? Thanks

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SMX
[B]You don't need to take the spring out, just jack up the car a bit. That should give you enough room to put the sliced rubber around the coils.

 

Spacers? Med, explain spacers to me please!

 

I discovered that it REALLY makes a difference if you torque the bolts down to spec. I mean it! Spec is not 30 lbs either...Chilton's quotes pretty high torque too.

Also, my specific problem seems to be that one of the bump stops slipped off or down or something. I'll let you know what I find.

 

The orange teflon pieces at the very top of the strut hat are called spacers.

 

thanks for keeping us posted and updated njmaxse. Your information is very useful and I shall see what I can do to my stupid H&R coil noise too.

 

LIME: take the strut apart, make sure the poly bushing-thing that the top hat sits on did not get pushed doen from old age, if you did not buy new ones to put on, also make sure the larger bushing on the top of the top-hat (between the nut/washer and the tophat) is on the right way, if it is upside down the polished rod from the strut rubs/bangs the outer edge of the hole that it passes through in the tophat. call me later i can exaplain more
-Barto

 

I think it got pushed down, Nick. I will call you. We are taking it apart tonight, hopefully. I hate driving on it like this...I'm afraid I'll blow the thing!

 

you wont blow anything, mine have been making that noise since i put them in... back in ... May maybe, dont worry about it, just crank up the tunes and keep driving
-Barto

 

Hmm, that advice sounds familiar. BTW, you are tall.

 

Daniel B. martin -- what do you think would be causing my rear shock/spring noises? i had a shop reinstall them in hopes they could eliminate the noises. they're best attempt only made it a little better. they switched the shocks left to right, so i'm thinking since the noise only comes from the right rear corner that it's an upper shock mount? what do you guys think? when i jack up that corner i can see the rubber bump stop on the shaft. it's not very tight to the body as i think it should be. maybe this is causing too much freeplay resulting in the clattering noise i hear? it's really unfortunate so many people have noise problems with their lowering springs. i'm gonna try something new soon. i need ideas.

 

I agree, but the noises started before I changed out the suspension...that's what really bothers me! You'd think that either Nissan or the aftermarket companies might test their parts better.

 

Go to Home Deeepoooo and get 1/2 ID (inside diameter) clear vinyl tubing. Cut it into small sections approx. 2 inches in length. Make about 8 or 10 pcs. Then slice the top so you have the hose split open. If you use small pcs. it will bend around the spring easier and you don't need to do the barber poll cut. Jack the car up so most of the tension is off the springs. Now place the vinyl pcs. on your springs everywhere there is or will be coil touching coil when the spring is loaded (car on the ground). Space them out nice and evenly. You may even want to losen up the shock mount to get the spring free and place the vinyl between the spring and lower strut spring seat. Once you have the spring completely isolated from touching itself AND the strut seat, your noises will completely stop. Worked for me, should work for the rest of us as well. I'll try to get a diagram up on this thread or a picture to show the install.

 

Excellent documentation. I will be doing this for sure tonight!!! I will be going to Lowes though lol...don't hate me, but it's close by work hehe.

 

Can somebody explain to me what the spacers (orange teflon pieces) and the poly bushing-things are. I replaced my struts 6 months ago and replaced the top mount struts when I replaced the struts used the top and bottom spring spacers (missing 3rd spacer), and my car has sounded terrible ever since.

A couple of weeks ago started making a large clunking sound on the passenger side. Found that the CV boot was ripped so I replaced the passenger side half shaft (highly recommend Raxles.com good price and new outer joint) thinking that that was the problem. Still makes big clunk sound but only when turning very sharp.

I don't remember greasing the new strut mounts when I replaced them there were no instructions with the mounts and Chiltons didn't mention greasing the strut mounts or bearings. Do these parts require grease before installing?

If somebody has a digital camera - replacing the struts/springs would make a great VFAQ. Anybody want to step up to the plate?

 

if I can get access to one I will try to take pics tonight.

 

You go Lime! She is one of the few girl that work on her own car. Hope you fix your noise problem. Good tips in this tread people!

 

SUSPENSION IS FIXED!!!! Okay, first of all, my specific problem was I guess we had some total retarded moment when putting together the right rear shock (rear = shocks, not struts, technically), because we put it together wrong, and missed a piece (the metal cup that attaches to the top of the "dust cover," to use laymans terms. I would use the official terms, but those are lame and not useful). Fortunately my friend works at a car yard, so we grabbed a '99 rear shock assembly and double checked. So once we got that settled, we went to Home Depot (Lowes does NOT HAVE THIS) and didn't get that vinyl stuff. Instead, we got WIRE WRAP material, which is probably in the electrical section, but I forgot to look. It's PRE-HELIX-CUT, slightly harder than the vinyl tubing, and has a much smaller than 1/2" ID. However, it is PERFECT, trust me. I wrapped the top and bottom of each spring for the closest coils (about 3.5 coils), starting about 3-4" up the bottom (the very ends do not need to be wrapped because they go up against rubber). Threw the shock assembly back in, tightened (then I changed my rear rotors/pads), put car back on the ground, retightened, and tested. At 1:30 am this morning, I was the happiest person on this whole planet, I swear. NO NOISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Any questions?

ps: as an aside, the brake noise is gone too...see the brake noise thread.

 

btw, this should become a sticky!!! or something resembling it!

 

 

Another quite H&R ride. Nice job Lime! I do agree some of this info should be put into a sticky some place on here. So many of us have the same issues with lowering springs.

 

Ok I have a question, when I had my strings and struts install after I got home there was two bag in the trunk… in each bag were 2 black rubber bushing that where never install. Should they have installed them? Could that be one of my problems?

 

well, SMX, did you use the stock strut ones instead? THat's okay, though I would recommend using the newer rubber whenever possible...are you having big CLANK/RATTLE noises?

I am happy also about this learning experience...now I know a TON about the suspension parts and stuff.

 

my question is .. how much physical work did you put into fixing the car?

 

what do you mean? I had to take out the rear shock assemblies, disassemble, wrap coils, reassemble, put them back in. If you're asking how much *I* did? I did one side, and my friend did the other. I don't want to know why you're asking.

 

SMX 2 bags with 2 rubber pcs. One set was approx. 5-6 inches in diameter, the other set about 1/2 that size? Sounds like the strut top spring seat cushion (round rubber which the top of the spring seats up in). It should have been reused or a new one installed. Without that rubber you've got to have some pretty strange noises coming from your suspension.

 

ehehheehe yeah...CLANKRATTLECLANKRATTLE.

 

YEP!!! that it. What I think is they put back the old ones..which could be warn. How hard will it be to change myself? I relly dont want them to even see the car let alone work on it!

 

SMX you don't get new rubber seats with springs. They are spicific for your cars strut. H&R doesn't supply any accessories with their springs. So it makes me wonder if those pieces are NOT installed in your car at all at this piont. If you jack the car up a bit you can see the spring and strut assembly clearly. Look at the very top (on a front spring/strut) and right where the spring sets up on the top of the strut tower (upper strut mount) you should have a rubber piece which isolates the last upper spring coil from the plate it sits in.

 

Sorry!! I forgot to mention that the struts (Tokico) where change the same time as the springs. Sorry, its been one of those days

 

ah but are you usiing stock struts or did you get new struts too? The rubber "bushings" come with the struts (or, they should!). If they used the old ones, then they were silly.... The old ones can eventually get hard and crack.

 

That what the bag in my trunk where the new ones that they never replaced. How hard is it to change them?

 

not too hard, but you may have to use a spring compressor.... Jack up the car, unbolt the top/bottom bolts. The top I think are 2 12 mm in the rear, and the bottom is some huuuuggggeee thing. My chilton's isn't here. For the front, get the metric equivalent of 7/8 for the top bolts if you have a 97+ with the rounded nut things, otherwise it's a different bolt size...well...anyway, compress the springs and release the tension, then take the strut apart (make sure number the parts, and also label the orientation of top/bottom if you don't have a complete strut assembly to look at!!!). Wrap the whatever-you-use around the springs' tops and bottoms. Put stuff back together. Bolt in struts. Put car on ground. Torque struts. Test drive.

Bet you thought a gurl wouldn't post this.