I have a 96 GLE and am having definite timing chain noise and a whirring noise at lower rpm. I had the hood open and goosed the throttle and can hear it until I raise the rpm. I talked to a few shops and most won't touch it. I looked at this list from Courtesy Parts, which lists every part including doing the water pump at the same time for about $900: http://www.courtesyparts.com/A32_tckit.html
The one shop I spoke with who said he's done a few, said that 90% of the jobs also had the chain wear into the timing cover and that is another $400 part.

With 14 hrs shop time at $85/hr and miscellaneous stuff, this puts the p&L
price tag at around $2700. At that price, it seems to favor junking the car.
So my question is, is this realistic, or are there some jobs that require less parts.

Thanks

 

You can get a decent milage used engine for $5-700, why not go that route?

 

damn dude..someones really ripping u the fukc off.....just buy a low milage engine and have someone swap it for 500 bux...its not worth it trust me....and for 2700 i bet u can have someone swap a 3.5 for ya...lol

 

I just read the comments by DrPaulFlammond in this thread: http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=556283 and the water pump thread: http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=227404 and realized that there is an access cover for just the water pump and the chain tensioner without having to pull the whole cover. But you really can't tell unless you pull the whole cover, I would think. So what I need are other opinions.

Also, I was quoted 17 labor hours for an engine swap, so at $85/hr plus a used engine this puts the price around $2100 total. I doubt you can get a low mileage engine for a car this old. I've had the car since 41k and serviced everything myself (axles, starter motor, alternator plus a few others) and used mobil 1 with 3-5k oil change intervals. I can only guess at the mileage now at around 130-140k since my odo croaked at 101k awhile ago.

 

17 hours.... you have got to be s.hittin me... I can rip that sob out and have the new one installed in about 10 hours..... thats being a polski and drinking while working...

you need to go somewhere else buddy...

 

Fortunately for me, I live near the People's Republic of Cambridge, MA, aka
home of the world famous "Good News Garage", in turn, home of Click and Clack, moderators of "Car Talk". Unfortunately, this area is also the home of $90/hr labor......

They charge an arm and a leg, but at least they are honest. I will call tomorrow.

Per this thread: http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....n+timing+cover
removing the timing cover is supposed to be:


Quote:
Originally Posted by JtzMax View Post
Do the chain guides ever really need to be replaced in our cars? Need Dgeesman or Pmohr in on this .... If so, you think doing the tensioner was a PITA! well .... the guide would be OH so much fun
Heh, never even saw this. Not unless it was wearing oddly, but in all of the VQs I've torn apart (and the blown ones I've seen in pieces around the shop), never seen a badly worn chain guide. The guide would probably be about a day's job (or two) for a first timer, after you learn the tricks and where all of the bolts are, 4 or 5 hours maybe (in the car).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltsniper View Post
Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I`m no and can`t start a thread yet.

I recently developed a lot of timing chain chatter in my 95 SE. After changing oil and checking oil pressure, I pulled out the tensioner to take a look at it and the chain. Both looked fine. You will get some obnoxious chatter after reinstalling the tensioner. When you pull the tensioner out you let air in behind it and you have to clear this air to build oil pressure on the tensioner again. It's normal. The FSM makes a note of it but they neglect to tell you exactly how bad it is at first nor how long it lasts. It eventually tamed down but it still chatters pretty bad. I`m trying now to pull the TC cover off.

So my question is: Is removal of the upper oil pan necessary to get the TC cover off? I have everything detached from the cover and all the bolts out but it will not budge from the crankcase at the bottom. I`m wondering now if it locks into the oil pan somehow. The FSM does say to remove the oil pans, but it also says to remove a lot of other items that is not absolutely necessary. I`m looking for some confirmation before I go pry harder or cry cause I gotta drop the engine basically....
Negative, front cover only requires removal of the lower oil pan (2x12mm head bolts that lead through the upper pan into the front cover). You'll need a good 6" or 9" extension and 12mm socket, you can pretty much see the 'bulges' in the upper oil pan where there's clearance for a socket to remove those two bolts

After that, the front cover may very well be seized up on the two dowels (or very hard to get off of them). Granted, it's hard to get a good pry point with the engine in the car, but there are two good places to pry from ~.5 inches above each dowel, on each side of the motor.
__________________
ASE CMAT / Service Tech at AAM

 

Jesus, VG timing belts aren't even remotely that expensive...and in most cases, you have less room to work with oddly. That guy is taking you to the cleaners for sure. Bet it doesn't even take him 14 hours to do that job.

S

 

Well, the 100k and 200k kits have a lot of stuff:
http://www.courtesyparts.com/A32_tckit.html, you're saying usually you only would need a few parts? If you're pulling the cover, you probably might as well be doing the water pump too...

BTW, f550maranello2: "thats being a polski and drinking while working..."
I'm half polish. I thought you HAD to drink in order to be able to work...

 

96.............. VG????????? am i missing anything here??? why not do a DEK swap though you can go the 3.5 route with more problems lol

 

 

i know... thats why i takes all day... cuz i get drunk and cant remember where to tools went...

 

never even heard of chain replacement being necessary just tensioner most likely. they are hydraulic so maybe if it was ran low on oil more then once they never fully pump up again?? mine rattles but minor only slightly noisy when cold and has been since 138k now at 158k

and tensioners $49 at rockauto.
think youll have to unbolt the side motor mount to get to the cover.
but labor isnt my worry as my father and many local mechanic friends to assist and thats where its $$ getting you.

so my advice find a local maxima.org member to help you out/.

$2100, 2700 ridiculous like above can get a 3.5 for $500 with 30 or 40k
can use 4th gen axles and ecu just need them to swap your cam gears and injectors from your 3.0

 

95maxdvt,

I would like to hope it is just the tensioner. Maybe the whirring noise is from the water pump?? Anyway, I need to find a good mechanic that will look at it and see. Once you remove the access to the tensioner I hope you could tell what is going on...

 

this has to be a joke...

try a new timing chain tensioner for $60 and like 2 hours labor and be done with it. $2700 lol

 

Go to www.car-parts.com I just found a number of engines under 70k miles in your area for $5-$700. 17 hours of labor to swap an engine is retarded. That is a one day job tops to just swap a motor.

People on here have given you good advice. If your just going to keep throwing it back, then just sell the car, your a lost cause.

 

WTF y does everyone give up on the engine for a $60 tensioner.

ive seen a vq on the road wit 344,000 miles n still kickin witout ticks
****ers are bulletproof y do u think it one top 10 best engines from 95-02

 

Mtrai, thanks. When this problem started, I didn't realize there was an access port for the tensioner without pulling the whole cover. So the first order of business is to see if the tensioner alone can solve the problem. If not then I start worrying about swapping engines. I'm going outside now to take a look at the cover and see how hard it is to get the port off.

I just went outside. Per the post on the water pump job, the access port doesn't seem too bad. However, the REason I got the problem is that I was hearing a higher frequency growling noise when I had the windows open driving the car at lower rpm. When I popped the hood and played with the throttle, I found I had non normal chain noise and the growling noise coming from the chain cover area, that went away when I raised the rpm. So I'm worried about the high frequency noise.

I have an appointment with the car talk garage on Tuesday. In the meantime, I have to see if I'm in the mood to change the tensioner by itself (I have big Polish hands, so it ain't easy in a tight space...)

 

You can replace just the timing tensioner first. Should get the timing tensioner gasket, too. The gasket is part of Nissan TSB to fix tensioner leaking oil overnight and causing rattle.

 

I agree, you're being way over priced .... and as mentioned, get a used engine, or don't .... it's your call. If it were me, I'd find a 3.5 to throw in ... if you're doing a swap for any reason, go bigger and better. Can you not do this work yourself? You made mention that you have done other work .... you could rent a car for a week and not come close to paying $2700 ....

Oh ... and when you wanna quote people, it's ok to do so ... but make sure you break the quotes. I didn't say all of the above that you have me pinned for.

 

14hrs for chain replacement and 17hrs for engine replacement sounds right. These are book times that most professional shops are going to go by. If the person doing the job finishes in less time than the book calls for that doesn't mean they should charge less labor because they are familiar with a job and their experience at their job makes them better and faster at it. Thats how good technicians make their money. If the job takes longer than book time (as long as no other problems are found) you aren't going to get charged more time because the technician took longer. Its easy to look at it from the customers point of view of it but 90% of technicians only get paid by the job they are doing not by the hour they are on the clock.

 

Delvin,

I sort of agree with you. Given, however that is a large chunk of cash, if I could find someone individually who can do it a a discount because his money is not being siphoned off by his employer, then the better for me.

The real issue, however is that none of the three shops I spoke with (whom are all experienced Nissan shops (not dealers)), bothered to suggest that they first check the tensioner by itself as a possible solution instead of deciding that it requires a full blown job.

The guy with the $2700 amount was telling me that 9/10 of his nissan timing chain jobs had the chain grinding into the cover and he told me some (garbage I think) that the cover contains an oil pump and it costs $400 (may be true), and to expect to have to change the cover....

 

I have 2 motors here (johns Auto parts, I had 3 but took one for the 96 Max Se 5sp I swapped a 93 voyager for here at work. I have 1 with 140,000 out of a 98 I30 for $300 (90 Parts Warranty) I have the other out of 97 Maxima 118,000 for $350 (90 Warranty) Be about $150-$200 shipping. (i'll get exact amount)

 

If you need something or want me to find something we are connected to MOST salvage yards in the country. PLUS we sell new parts (mainly Oreilly)

Email me at jeffh@johnsauto.com

 

dude, just take it to kevin, he is not far from you.

 

Jeff,

Thanks. I have to take this one step at a time. Since I'm probably not in the mood to work on this myself over the weekend, I have to wait till the car talk garage diagnosis on Tuesday. If I did do an engine swap though, I'm not sure I'd want to use an engine with 118k, on the "you don't know where that engine has been" premise. At least I know I used mobil one regularly in my engine. As for the 3.5 liter swap, I really wonder if the wiring harness is the same and all you have to do is change the main ecu.

 

I understand that. We usually have 1 yr warranty on ALL of our motors and trannys. The Minimum for the 1Year PARTS AND LABOR warrany is $450. We stand by our parts, test them and check them before we put the for sale. If they are bad they core them out. LOTS of our parts are cars that get crashed. Its an option and availabe if you would like. or just want to see whats around or can be found.

 

It sounds like they are throwing in an extra thousand on the price. Maybe a little more. Shouldn't be the chain at that low mileage. I am saying that because I have 289k miles and I don't know anyone here that has replaced their chain yet. So, you need to replace the tensioner first or at least that is what I would do. Doesn't seem that difficult either.

 

GO CELTICS

BluFlame, whosa kevin?? Dunno from this post/threads.

The other problem from the post below is that the new tensioner part is designed only to work with a new guide that you can't put in from the port opening. I guess I would follow mzmtg's advice to combine parts from the old one.http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=134338
Hey BTW, I did this about two weeks ago, and it *almost* (80%-90%)eliminated the rattling at startup. The easiest way to get to that tensioner, is by removing the Power Steering Canister. Just disconnect the rubber hose from the canister that connects to that steel hose (and catch PS fluid). Slide PS Canister upwards, then Bend canister that still has a big rubber hose attached to it, towards firewall. Voila...you have a helluva lotta space to play with, without removing an engine mount. That takes 5 minutes.

Secondly, the box (part no. 13091-31U26) of two parts I got from nissan technically has a mismatched tensioner compared to the original one. You need to replace both tensioner and guide to get best effect. The angle in which the plunger hits the guide is mismatched. But I said %!@ it, and it seemed to work. The alignment of course wasn't 100% off (between tensioner and guide), or the plunger would have shot into crevaces of the timing chain area.

Thirdly, to easily push the plunger back into the tensioner when you remove the old one: remove the top bolt first, and loosen the bottom one a bit (or vice versa..loosen bottom, then remove top). This will cause the tensioner to rotate upwards...the guide will snap/rotate towards the rear of the car, yet the plunger on the tensioner will not fall out. Then take a long flat-head screwdriver and push plunger into tensioner (now it's easy since you have clearance), then take a thumbtack or whatever and keep the plunger in there. Remove second bolt and the tensioner can be removed without tensioner shooting out. I used some aluminum foil to seal up the crevaces in which the plunger could possibly fall. That was my guarantee though. Oh yeah, and I removed foil when I was ready to seal up the cover.

Hope that makes sense.
mzmtg's advice:

I just did this last weekend. I bought the new style tensioner and guide. Then I tossed the guide in the trash.

I removed the spring, plunger and o-ring from the new tensioner and installed them into my old one.

Works like a charm.

Also, if you turn the crank about half a turn clockwise, you'll get the slack on the guide side of the chain and make the whole process a bit easier.

 

I would say if the chain itself was making noise it would be really loud noise. If it was the tensioner and guide it would be an irritating noise but not like cans rattling in a dryer. But I wouldn't really know since I haven't heard either. Just guessing.

 

The reason I came to this point is that I was hearing a new low speed higher frequency growling noise that I thought was my transmission. When I opened the hood I heard abnormal chain noise plus the growling appears to come from the chain cover area too. It is possible it is the power steering pump which has been noisy during the winter, but I don't think so.

 

Just some info here, my 96 Max that I bought from the original owner had severe rear timing chain cover leaks from the O-rings between the block and rear cover. I work for a Nissan dealership where we quoted the guy 10 hours to do the job. Parts were only like $60 in O-rings and cleaners and drive belts but labor was the expensive part. At $140/hr at my shop it was going to be about 1600 for the job plus another 5 hours we quoted him to look for the misfire he had due to a broken injector wire in the harness between the ECM and engine. So he was looking at close to $2,400 for everything. I made him a $200 offer for the car, payed his $150 bill and fixed it myself in the driveway. Took my a couple weeks working on it at 2 hour intervals and BSin lol. Now its a runner!

 

What part of the country charges $140/hr? What do you do?, provide Elliot Spitzer services in the waiting room????

 

Im in the SF Bay Area, Kalifornia. Im a Nissan Factory Service Tech, been workin in Nissans for almost 5 years now.

And actually I think our labor rate now is $145/hr and the Volvo dealer we're joined with is $180/hr but we're also a union shop so of course we have higher benefits that the customer pays for lol.

 

this is why you never go to dealership :P
You still driving the car? if the timing was bad it wouldn't run very good. If its just a noise I would look at something else.

 

IF the camshaft timing was off like if the chain jumped a tooth or something then yeah it would run bad but if the chain guides or tensioner itself is worn out then it would cause some extra slop in the chain and could be floppin around slappin on the cover and such. Doesn't necessarily mean the cam timing would be off... yet but eventually the loose chain could cause other damage like the mechanic mentioned. It doesn't seem unreasonable but is kinda high for the area you live in.

Hell I'd do it for you in my driveway for half that if you were close lol.

 

Sounds like you took advantage of the guy.

 

Same reason I work on my own cars, the dealership by me used a screw to pry the dash apart and put a gash in my dash.

 

i had chain noise after i attempted to do my waterpump i just pulled it and put a 00 DEK in and it only cost me $400 with 70k

 

17 hrs for timing chain is ridiculous. Go somewhere else, even the stealership wouldn't quote you 2700. Look for a small Nissan specialist in your area or something

 

2700?? you'd be crazy if you go that route, you have so many other options.