Starting Issue 00vi/Injector related??
02-05-2009, 07:52 AM
#1
Starting Issue 00vi/Injector related??
Ok, i did a dek swap a few weeks ago. Removed the EGR, im using the dek IACV. In order to keep the car idleing i had to mess with the throttle screw (the one that holds the throttle open). So there, thats fine. It idles fine. BUt cranking has been somewhat of a pain, sometimes i have to give it gas for some reason, or it could just be coincidental that im giving it gas when it finally fires up. Not sure on that. Today i go out and it just turns and turns but wont crank. I flooded the cylinders, pulled the plugs, soaking wet with gas.
Now heres my thoughts, im thinking that with the throttle always open how it is (with the screw), im pouring a little gas in there while im cranking anyways and its just too much with the slightly bigger injectors. Is that possible? But then again i dont know if other 00vi swappers have this issue like i do. Those that use the injectors anyways. Other than this, i dont know. NO CODES that i think would be related to this. Im using EU, so is there anything i can mess with. Any settings that may need tweaking due to the new engine? Is there a way i can pull out fuel while im cranking the car? im guessing thats probably not possible. maybe an ignition timing adjustment?? any help is appreciated.
Now heres my thoughts, im thinking that with the throttle always open how it is (with the screw), im pouring a little gas in there while im cranking anyways and its just too much with the slightly bigger injectors. Is that possible? But then again i dont know if other 00vi swappers have this issue like i do. Those that use the injectors anyways. Other than this, i dont know. NO CODES that i think would be related to this. Im using EU, so is there anything i can mess with. Any settings that may need tweaking due to the new engine? Is there a way i can pull out fuel while im cranking the car? im guessing thats probably not possible. maybe an ignition timing adjustment?? any help is appreciated.
02-05-2009, 08:37 PM
#3
how do i tune something that only occurs on start-up? thats what im saying, if theres a way i can pull fuel at start-up, which would be what?? 0 rpms i guess? i dont know, im all ears on what to mess with on my EU.
Just as an update, i waited about 2 hours and went back outside and it started right up. No hesitation or nothing. So that ticks me off a little. And its been started since then many times. The one thing i did take note of was that it had warmed up considerably since the morning hours, so temperature may have something to do with this. still not sure though, we'll see tomorrow.
Just as an update, i waited about 2 hours and went back outside and it started right up. No hesitation or nothing. So that ticks me off a little. And its been started since then many times. The one thing i did take note of was that it had warmed up considerably since the morning hours, so temperature may have something to do with this. still not sure though, we'll see tomorrow.
02-05-2009, 09:40 PM
#4
Yes, tuning the whole a/f map *should* affect how it starts, as it wont dump as much fuel in to get it to idle properly.
AKA:
Say you need X amount of fuel to start up, and L is the maximum amount of fuel that the car will start with. Well if you're currently are pushing more than L, then a tune can bring it between X and L.
AKA:
Say you need X amount of fuel to start up, and L is the maximum amount of fuel that the car will start with. Well if you're currently are pushing more than L, then a tune can bring it between X and L.
02-05-2009, 10:03 PM
#6
Did you readjust the TPS after fiddling with the set screw? You're probably showing a few percent throttle at idle.
Likely not the cause of your problem, but something to look at anyway.
Likely not the cause of your problem, but something to look at anyway.
02-06-2009, 10:52 AM
#10
how is your IACV hooked up? I had this same problem until I put a bigger hose going from my manifold to my IACV. If it does not have a big enough hose for the air it will cause these problems. If it is set up like stock then please dis regard what I am saying. Posting a picture of your set up may help too.
02-06-2009, 11:18 AM
#11
i did the whole dek. im running the 5th gen iacv. i did swap over my stock TPS to this motor, so what you're saying pmohr could be a possibility. Ill check into that.
I may try pulling a little fuel everywhere and see if that helps like Mohf suggested. Its suppose to get warmer out so well see if it continues to give me problems.
I may try pulling a little fuel everywhere and see if that helps like Mohf suggested. Its suppose to get warmer out so well see if it continues to give me problems.
Last edited by MaximaSpd85; 02-06-2009 at 11:34 AM.
02-06-2009, 12:21 PM
#13
i did the whole dek. im running the 5th gen iacv. i did swap over my stock TPS to this motor, so what you're saying pmohr could be a possibility. Ill check into that.
I may try pulling a little fuel everywhere and see if that helps like Mohf suggested. Its suppose to get warmer out so well see if it continues to give me problems.
I may try pulling a little fuel everywhere and see if that helps like Mohf suggested. Its suppose to get warmer out so well see if it continues to give me problems.
02-06-2009, 12:32 PM
#14
how is your IACV hooked up? I had this same problem until I put a bigger hose going from my manifold to my IACV. If it does not have a big enough hose for the air it will cause these problems. If it is set up like stock then please dis regard what I am saying. Posting a picture of your set up may help too.
I'm running all DEK equipment and dont have any startup issues at all.
02-06-2009, 06:48 PM
#15
i just have the stock iacv plug hacked up and flipped backwards with electrical tape holding it in place. Cardana, are you using 5th gen iacv or 4th gen? Im assuming 4th gen from your previous statements. so are you guys suggesting its my iacv causing these crazy start up problems.
my idea behind pulling fuel comes from the fact that 1) i pulled the plugs and they were drenched with fuel 2) coupled with the fact that my TB is held open at all times with the screw so its basically giving gas before i even turn the ignition. So i feel like its flooding from the get go and it just wont spark. but my thinking could be all wrong here. i dont know enough about spark/ignition to understand what is actually going on in there but it makes sense in my head. Earlier tonight it didnt want to crank up. it took me about a minute of trying to get it cranked pumping the gas (i dont know what thats doing, it seems like that would cause even more of an issue and dumping even more fuel) but its almost like thats the only way sometimes. Then after work about 20 minutes ago, it took only about 3 seconds. So its very....weird. Frustrating.
my idea behind pulling fuel comes from the fact that 1) i pulled the plugs and they were drenched with fuel 2) coupled with the fact that my TB is held open at all times with the screw so its basically giving gas before i even turn the ignition. So i feel like its flooding from the get go and it just wont spark. but my thinking could be all wrong here. i dont know enough about spark/ignition to understand what is actually going on in there but it makes sense in my head. Earlier tonight it didnt want to crank up. it took me about a minute of trying to get it cranked pumping the gas (i dont know what thats doing, it seems like that would cause even more of an issue and dumping even more fuel) but its almost like thats the only way sometimes. Then after work about 20 minutes ago, it took only about 3 seconds. So its very....weird. Frustrating.
02-06-2009, 06:51 PM
#16
i just have the stock iacv plug hacked up and flipped backwards with electrical tape holding it in place. Cardana, are you using 5th gen iacv or 4th gen? Im assuming 4th gen from your previous statements. so are you guys suggesting its my iacv causing these crazy start up problems.
my idea behind pulling fuel comes from the fact that 1) i pulled the plugs and they were drenched with fuel 2) coupled with the fact that my TB is held open at all times with the screw so its basically giving gas before i even turn the ignition. So i feel like its flooding from the get go and it just wont spark. but my thinking could be all wrong here. i dont know enough about spark/ignition to understand what is actually going on in there but it makes sense in my head. Earlier tonight it didnt want to crank up. it took me about a minute of trying to get it cranked pumping the gas (i dont know what thats doing, it seems like that would cause even more of an issue and dumping even more fuel) but its almost like thats the only way sometimes. Then after work about 20 minutes ago, it took only about 3 seconds. So its very....weird. Frustrating.
my idea behind pulling fuel comes from the fact that 1) i pulled the plugs and they were drenched with fuel 2) coupled with the fact that my TB is held open at all times with the screw so its basically giving gas before i even turn the ignition. So i feel like its flooding from the get go and it just wont spark. but my thinking could be all wrong here. i dont know enough about spark/ignition to understand what is actually going on in there but it makes sense in my head. Earlier tonight it didnt want to crank up. it took me about a minute of trying to get it cranked pumping the gas (i dont know what thats doing, it seems like that would cause even more of an issue and dumping even more fuel) but its almost like thats the only way sometimes. Then after work about 20 minutes ago, it took only about 3 seconds. So its very....weird. Frustrating.
02-06-2009, 07:11 PM
#17
ok, help me learn. so should it be calibrated to 0% even though its cracked open? also, if its calibrated to 0%, how does this affect my idle (it seems that i need the tb to be open for the car to idle, or is that a direct correlation to me needing it to be open)? im not sure how the tps/tb operate in relation to eachother, or do they operate independently from eachother? meaning, for example (not sure if its even possible) can open throttle be calibrated at 0%, and im still able to give it gas? if that makes any sense. or is the tps just a sensor that other operations/parts gather data from in order to function
Last edited by MaximaSpd85; 02-06-2009 at 07:14 PM.
02-06-2009, 07:23 PM
#18
ok, help me learn. so should it be calibrated to 0% even though its cracked open? also, if its calibrated to 0%, how does this affect my idle (it seems that i need the tb to be open for the car to idle, or is that a direct correlation to me needing it to be open)? im not sure how the tps/tb operate in relation to eachother, or do they operate independently from eachother? meaning, for example (not sure if its even possible) can open throttle be calibrated at 0%, and im still able to give it gas? if that makes any sense. or is the tps just a sensor that other operations/parts gather data from in order to function
02-06-2009, 07:30 PM
#19
Supporting Maxima.org Member
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Posts: 10,166
You may have to start ALL over again. You should NOT mess with that throttle screw, only calibrate the TPS to be perfect and you'll be surprised how fast that start up issue goes away. Once you start messing with the screw, it messed with the calibration of the TPS and confuses it.
Now with that said, I had to get a new throttle body one time cause I never got that set screw back to where it was "perfectly cracked".
-matt
Now with that said, I had to get a new throttle body one time cause I never got that set screw back to where it was "perfectly cracked".
-matt
02-06-2009, 07:31 PM
#20
yeah, but it was the only way i could get it to idle at all. or maybe my problem has been an uncalibrated tps the whole time?? who knows....thanks for your help. just trying to soak in every bit of advice to try to help with my problem. i was also suggested to maybe use one-step hotter plugs and maybe itll help. but idk. theres gotta be someone out there with a full dek swap with problems like mine.
02-06-2009, 07:36 PM
#21
You may have to start ALL over again. You should NOT mess with that throttle screw, only calibrate the TPS to be perfect and you'll be surprised how fast that start up issue goes away. Once you start messing with the screw, it messed with the calibration of the TPS and confuses it.
Now with that said, I had to get a new throttle body one time cause I never got that set screw back to where it was "perfectly cracked".
-matt
Now with that said, I had to get a new throttle body one time cause I never got that set screw back to where it was "perfectly cracked".
-matt
02-06-2009, 07:38 PM
#22
ok, i believe you but what is the purpose of that damn screw if you're never suppose to touch it lol? what was nissans thought behind it? and its not like i remember where that scew was positioned initially. anyways, so try to get the screw back to "stock" and calibrate the TPS to 0%. so thats my goal. its crazy how this conversation has shifted towards a possible TPS issue, the last thing i would ever think of.
The screw is there to crack the throttle plate open a set amount, there's a reason it's got a small dab of loctite on it, and how it says in the manual specifically to not touch it.
02-06-2009, 07:45 PM
#23
lol, well there i go again doing something i shouldnt have done. im great at just trying things. a lot of you may be thinking, "dude, step away from your car", but hey, this is how i learn. ive learned a lot from doing things i shouldnt have done. they're great learning experiences imo.
anyways, ill see what i can do about this tps thing and ill post an update.
pmohr, you dont happen to have a spare dek TB do you? lol u always seem to have a spare whatever the OP needs....
anyways, ill see what i can do about this tps thing and ill post an update.
pmohr, you dont happen to have a spare dek TB do you? lol u always seem to have a spare whatever the OP needs....
Last edited by MaximaSpd85; 02-06-2009 at 07:47 PM.
02-07-2009, 07:23 PM
#25
ok, update for the day. around noon when i went out to go to work, it wouldnt crank. had to try for a minute or so then it finally started. At work, i started it once pretty easily. i tested the tps, it gets ~5 volts with the ignition on. I tested the ohms at closed throttle/wot. At closed i was getting ~640 ohms, and wot i get 3.4k. I messed with it a bit, set the set screw back to where i thought stock was near, and got the tps to 5oo ohms, but the car didnt idle. I HAVE to crack the tb for this thing to idle at all. so i put my screw back where i had it, and messed with the tps. the best i can set closed to 500 ohms, but at wot itll only get to 3.6k. is that within acceptable range?i got tired of messing with it so after work i go back out to the car and it wont start. after minutes of sitting, and trying, it finally starts. So i drive home, and now it hesitates slightly under throttle, so im assuming the tps isnt set even close to being correct. Anyway, last note of the day. I get home, and shut it off. I start it immediately afterwards, and it starts up perfectly! i do this about three times, and it starts up perfectly each time. so i dont know what that means.
02-07-2009, 09:27 PM
#26
theres a bunch of 00vi/de-k guys here so i wanted to ask sorry if im threadjacking ..
If I have a 1998 Fed Ecu, 98 Fed Front manifold, and a 98 budget y-pipe..My car is a 1999 Cali spec though, but the motor is going to be a 2001...Am I going to run into any issues regarding the ecu? Making it all fed...and 01 fed motor....Also, did those starting issues happen right away after the swap, or it drove fine and then one day u fiddled with something and it happened?
If I have a 1998 Fed Ecu, 98 Fed Front manifold, and a 98 budget y-pipe..My car is a 1999 Cali spec though, but the motor is going to be a 2001...Am I going to run into any issues regarding the ecu? Making it all fed...and 01 fed motor....Also, did those starting issues happen right away after the swap, or it drove fine and then one day u fiddled with something and it happened?
02-08-2009, 01:23 PM
#28
UPDATE: It starts perfectly!! i dont know if it has to do with the extremely warm weather (hottest day by far since probably october), or if its what i did last night. But it started up perfectly today, didnt have to give it gas or anything on cranking. Actually, it was cold this morning and it still started right up so im excited about this. The hesitation from last night is completely gone so maybe it was just it needed some getting used to. idk. but so far so good.
02-08-2009, 01:28 PM
#29
theres a bunch of 00vi/de-k guys here so i wanted to ask sorry if im threadjacking ..
If I have a 1998 Fed Ecu, 98 Fed Front manifold, and a 98 budget y-pipe..My car is a 1999 Cali spec though, but the motor is going to be a 2001...Am I going to run into any issues regarding the ecu? Making it all fed...and 01 fed motor....Also, did those starting issues happen right away after the swap, or it drove fine and then one day u fiddled with something and it happened?
If I have a 1998 Fed Ecu, 98 Fed Front manifold, and a 98 budget y-pipe..My car is a 1999 Cali spec though, but the motor is going to be a 2001...Am I going to run into any issues regarding the ecu? Making it all fed...and 01 fed motor....Also, did those starting issues happen right away after the swap, or it drove fine and then one day u fiddled with something and it happened?
It happened from the moment i did the swap ( i swapped over my original TPS and all sensors, so they were not adjusted properly from the beginning i guess).
02-09-2009, 12:39 AM
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 866
Remember that when testing the resistance of the TPS, the specs are for when it is at 77*F (double check the FSM, this is from what I remember). So if you're having cold weather, the initial resistance may be above 500 ohms. But I would think the WOT would be higher, too.
02-09-2009, 07:36 AM
#31
your issues are being caused by the cold weather. Its in the iacv set up that u r using. When its cold you will need to give it gas to stay running. it will start but will shut off unless u give it gas. if you give it too much and it floods like you said it doesnt start. When its hot it will start and stay running with out u having to give it gas. I speak from experience. I have the same set up you do, and the same probs minus the flooding.
02-12-2009, 06:47 PM
#33
bump, my previous update is no longer valid. lol, its been really warm here lately and i still have the same exact problems. So i think that whole temperature theory is out the window. I have been trying a few things out, and i have noticed that it will crank up every time, many times, as soon as i park and turn the car off. Meaning the car is still at operating temperatures.
02-12-2009, 07:39 PM
#34
bump, my previous update is no longer valid. lol, its been really warm here lately and i still have the same exact problems. So i think that whole temperature theory is out the window. I have been trying a few things out, and i have noticed that it will crank up every time, many times, as soon as i park and turn the car off. Meaning the car is still at operating temperatures.
Have you checked the ECTS?
02-12-2009, 07:45 PM
#35
by temperature theory i meant outside temps, the weather. some were suggesting that its just the cold winter weather.
could a MAP sensor code cause these issues? i was under the impression that its just a diagnostic tool, therefore wouldnt really cause any issues.
could a MAP sensor code cause these issues? i was under the impression that its just a diagnostic tool, therefore wouldnt really cause any issues.
Last edited by MaximaSpd85; 02-12-2009 at 07:48 PM.
02-12-2009, 07:47 PM
#36
02-12-2009, 07:51 PM
#37
have not, i will try checking that next. hmm....come to think of it, the plug for the ects had broke (the wire) during the swap and we just taped it back together. maybe its not making a good connection, but wouldnt that cause other issues as well related to engine temps? ie. warming up
02-12-2009, 07:57 PM
#38
have not, i will try checking that next. hmm....come to think of it, the plug for the ects had broke (the wire) during the swap and we just taped it back together. maybe its not making a good connection, but wouldnt that cause other issues as well related to engine temps? ie. warming up
02-27-2009, 09:41 PM
#39
BUMP!!!! I think i fixed my problem about 10 minutes ago!! (knock on wood)
youll never believe what i hope fixed it....
so im looking in the engine bay, and i decide to redo the vacuum lines b/c they were wrong and one of the solenoid valves had a busted hose too so i had a leak. I redid everything, same problems. So i go to see if another bolt will work as a starter bolt so i try for the tranny side bolt near the CPS....and its loose. so im like wtf?? so i tighten it and decide to check other bolts. VOILA!!!! the bolt right on the other side of the CPS is barely hanging by a thread!! So im assuming while cranking, maybe there was so much force/pressure that the engine and tranny would separate ever so slightly right there where the CPS was, or something, and it wouldnt read properly! it cranked right up without even giving it gas!! i was so excited, hopefully thats the end of those stupid cranking issues (knock on wood)
youll never believe what i hope fixed it....
so im looking in the engine bay, and i decide to redo the vacuum lines b/c they were wrong and one of the solenoid valves had a busted hose too so i had a leak. I redid everything, same problems. So i go to see if another bolt will work as a starter bolt so i try for the tranny side bolt near the CPS....and its loose. so im like wtf?? so i tighten it and decide to check other bolts. VOILA!!!! the bolt right on the other side of the CPS is barely hanging by a thread!! So im assuming while cranking, maybe there was so much force/pressure that the engine and tranny would separate ever so slightly right there where the CPS was, or something, and it wouldnt read properly! it cranked right up without even giving it gas!! i was so excited, hopefully thats the end of those stupid cranking issues (knock on wood)
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