Power steering fluid in my gas tank
Power steering fluid in my gas tank
Not the most provocative title I thought of using. I had, "Dope floats," "Wake up and smell the fluid," "Another reason NOT to use gas additives," and "Tanks a lot!"
But, by now, I think you're getting the gist of what happened.
I had three hours of sleep the night before. I had two red containers, one was power steering fluid and the other was fuel system cleaner. I had picked up and poured the wrong bottle through the gas filler tube, and filled my tank.
So, if power steering fluid is oil-based, then I now have a lovely oil slick floating on the top of the gasoline.
My questions are (besides, "How dumb was that?"):
"Am I right about the power steering fluid floating on top of the gas and not mixing with it?"
"How far can I safely let the gas level drop before I take it somewhere to have the gas tank drained?"
And, lastly,
"Will the fluid coat the walls of the gas tank on the way out, and, if so, will the gas tank then have to be cleaned out before refilling it?"
Your helpful answers will be greatly appreciated.
But, by now, I think you're getting the gist of what happened.
I had three hours of sleep the night before. I had two red containers, one was power steering fluid and the other was fuel system cleaner. I had picked up and poured the wrong bottle through the gas filler tube, and filled my tank.
So, if power steering fluid is oil-based, then I now have a lovely oil slick floating on the top of the gasoline.
My questions are (besides, "How dumb was that?"):
"Am I right about the power steering fluid floating on top of the gas and not mixing with it?"
"How far can I safely let the gas level drop before I take it somewhere to have the gas tank drained?"
And, lastly,
"Will the fluid coat the walls of the gas tank on the way out, and, if so, will the gas tank then have to be cleaned out before refilling it?"
Your helpful answers will be greatly appreciated.
Don't feel bad, others have done exactly the same thing.
It will not do any damage to your engine in small quantities.
A couple options I would look at. If it is viable to siphon some gas out, say 5 or ten gallons, I would do that, and then fill the tank to dilute the P/S fluid as much as possible.
Then, if you see a long trip in your near future, do it soon. Run the car at relatively high speeds or rpm's to burn off the P/S fluid faster and cleaner.
Lots of folks used to put Marvel Mystery Oil in their gas, it's a light oil similar to P/S fluid, should not leave any residue.
It will not do any damage to your engine in small quantities.
A couple options I would look at. If it is viable to siphon some gas out, say 5 or ten gallons, I would do that, and then fill the tank to dilute the P/S fluid as much as possible.
Then, if you see a long trip in your near future, do it soon. Run the car at relatively high speeds or rpm's to burn off the P/S fluid faster and cleaner.
Lots of folks used to put Marvel Mystery Oil in their gas, it's a light oil similar to P/S fluid, should not leave any residue.
Last edited by trooplewis; Feb 17, 2009 at 08:02 PM.
Another thought as well, you might put a few drops of P/S fluid in a cup of gasoline and stir it up. Might be surprised and find that it dissolves; I'm not sure, but that would make sense.
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PS fluid will disolve in the gas and get burned up. Might lube up your injectors nicely and clean up some carbon in the combustion chamber too.
Don't worry about it.
Don't worry about it.
i would do a test run to see what it does in gas too. if you had an old lawn mower or something you dont care about much you could try running the mixture through that first to see what happens. If it mixes i bet you are fine but it will run a little smoky for a while
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,572
From: Middleboro/Carver, Ma
DROP THE TANK AND DRAIN IT IMMEDIATLY!!!!!! DO NOT DRIVE THE CAR
PS fluid and ATF must have special rubber lines, over time it will destroy almost all regular rubber.
'90 dsm brought into my shop, recently purchased and the previous owner put power steering fluid in the brake reservoir: Took out the reservoir cap, the reservoir lines (External reservoir for master on that car), the master cylinder, brake hoses, and brake calipers (Replaced all, only some were failing/leaking) THAN, even when I thought it was all over after replacing all of the calipers, hoses, master, etc, I even had to replace the proportioning valve because it stuck and would not let any pressure go to the right rear! Ever replace the proportining valve on a TSi? It's not fun.
2000 Toyota tundra: Radiator went bad, cooler for a/t went and mixed trans fluid with coolant. Now, 1-year later even after multiple flush's, EVERY SINGLE COOLANT LINE IS SWELLING.
It sucks, honestly if I were you I would just get a tank from the wrecker, it's pretty difficult to clean that stuff out. Hopefully you haven't driven it yet, because it will destroy the fuel pump, lines, & injectors down the road.
(edit) Almost forgot, I once did a fuel pump on a 01? gmc sonoma, the rubber plug for the electrical connector was swelled up to about twice it's normal size and eventually popped out of the connector, my best geuss was that something similiar happened, could have been a bad batch of gas also though, but it ended up being a $400 bill.
PS fluid and ATF must have special rubber lines, over time it will destroy almost all regular rubber.
'90 dsm brought into my shop, recently purchased and the previous owner put power steering fluid in the brake reservoir: Took out the reservoir cap, the reservoir lines (External reservoir for master on that car), the master cylinder, brake hoses, and brake calipers (Replaced all, only some were failing/leaking) THAN, even when I thought it was all over after replacing all of the calipers, hoses, master, etc, I even had to replace the proportioning valve because it stuck and would not let any pressure go to the right rear! Ever replace the proportining valve on a TSi? It's not fun.
2000 Toyota tundra: Radiator went bad, cooler for a/t went and mixed trans fluid with coolant. Now, 1-year later even after multiple flush's, EVERY SINGLE COOLANT LINE IS SWELLING.
It sucks, honestly if I were you I would just get a tank from the wrecker, it's pretty difficult to clean that stuff out. Hopefully you haven't driven it yet, because it will destroy the fuel pump, lines, & injectors down the road.
(edit) Almost forgot, I once did a fuel pump on a 01? gmc sonoma, the rubber plug for the electrical connector was swelled up to about twice it's normal size and eventually popped out of the connector, my best geuss was that something similiar happened, could have been a bad batch of gas also though, but it ended up being a $400 bill.
Last edited by KRRZ350; Feb 19, 2009 at 05:50 AM.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,572
From: Middleboro/Carver, Ma
Petroleum based fluids such as PS fluid will attack & swell brake system components. Not a real apples to apples comparison here. PS fluid will mix with gasoline just fine. Sure, it's not the ideal situation, but not as dire as some will say. A full tank of fuel diluted with 16oz of PS fluid is not that bad.
What I would do:
Drive the car as is, but top off the fuel tank every 50 miles or so. This will gradually dilute the gas/PS fluid mixture to a harmless percentage in a shorter time. My opinion is that the fuel hoses and pump simply coming in contact with PS fluid for a short time will not have any long term affects.
It's an opinion, your results may vary.
What I would do:
Drive the car as is, but top off the fuel tank every 50 miles or so. This will gradually dilute the gas/PS fluid mixture to a harmless percentage in a shorter time. My opinion is that the fuel hoses and pump simply coming in contact with PS fluid for a short time will not have any long term affects.
It's an opinion, your results may vary.
Petroleum based fluids such as PS fluid will attack & swell brake system components. Not a real apples to apples comparison here. PS fluid will mix with gasoline just fine. Sure, it's not the ideal situation, but not as dire as some will say. A full tank of fuel diluted with 16oz of PS fluid is not that bad.
What I would do:
Drive the car as is, but top off the fuel tank every 50 miles or so. This will gradually dilute the gas/PS fluid mixture to a harmless percentage in a shorter time. My opinion is that the fuel hoses and pump simply coming in contact with PS fluid for a short time will not have any long term affects.
It's an opinion, your results may vary.
What I would do:
Drive the car as is, but top off the fuel tank every 50 miles or so. This will gradually dilute the gas/PS fluid mixture to a harmless percentage in a shorter time. My opinion is that the fuel hoses and pump simply coming in contact with PS fluid for a short time will not have any long term affects.
It's an opinion, your results may vary.
Last edited by Nopike; Feb 19, 2009 at 07:55 AM.
YEP Petroleum based lubricants will destroy normal rubber lines, IE fuel lines, seals, etc. I would not drive the vehicle, drop the tank as soon as you can drain out all the gas, and clean the tank. I dont recommend using water, unless you can 100% get all of it out and dry.
Dropping the tank is not hard, if you have half a tank figure 35L, gas weighs approx 1.6lbs per liter, if you have 35-40 liters you'll have about 64lbs of gas, the tank empty weighs probably 10lbs. Tank is a 70 liter tank, its possible to drop it with two people when full.
Weve had a surge of Armadas come into work for foreign objects in there tanks, and everyone seems to have a full tank. 95 liters of gas is pretty heavy, but two normal sized people can manage it.
Dropping the tank is not hard, if you have half a tank figure 35L, gas weighs approx 1.6lbs per liter, if you have 35-40 liters you'll have about 64lbs of gas, the tank empty weighs probably 10lbs. Tank is a 70 liter tank, its possible to drop it with two people when full.
Weve had a surge of Armadas come into work for foreign objects in there tanks, and everyone seems to have a full tank. 95 liters of gas is pretty heavy, but two normal sized people can manage it.
Do a search on the Internet, lots of folks have done the same thing with no ill effects. Straight oil leaking directly onto rubber bushings will indeed destroy them over time. But it is 100% oil and it takes a long time to do it, years in fact.
I can understand brake lines, but the ratios is 1000 % higher than in the gas tank, and in brake lines it never leaves...
in my experience(and it is documented) you sir are about to find your self on the corner of fuched and up!
drop the tank and get ready for some serious replacements.
what you will replace: the fuel pump and filter screen, the fuel filter, and possibly injectors, your car will run fine now, but give it a few days and watch what happens.
pull the intake manifold off(dont forget the 4 bolts on the back) and check your injectors, seperate your fuel rail to make sure you dont have any crap in there.
or
just leave it alone and curse yourself for following the advice of thoes who have not experienced this kind of problem.
drop the tank and get ready for some serious replacements.
what you will replace: the fuel pump and filter screen, the fuel filter, and possibly injectors, your car will run fine now, but give it a few days and watch what happens.
pull the intake manifold off(dont forget the 4 bolts on the back) and check your injectors, seperate your fuel rail to make sure you dont have any crap in there.
or
just leave it alone and curse yourself for following the advice of thoes who have not experienced this kind of problem.
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 371
From: Nashville, TN
Sell it...
I don't see how this diluted amount of power steering fluid could cause a problem. If your still worrie about, but don't want to drop the tank, can't you take the lines loose and drain it that way? Maybe pressurize the tank with a few pounds of air and push it out?
I don't see how this diluted amount of power steering fluid could cause a problem. If your still worrie about, but don't want to drop the tank, can't you take the lines loose and drain it that way? Maybe pressurize the tank with a few pounds of air and push it out?
Jeez, you think that P/S hoses are made out of Kryptonite, something different than normal fuel hoses? How about the seals in your P/S system?
http://http://cardealerforums.com/al...mixed-gas.html
http://www.thecarconnection.com/answ...-into-gas-tank
About Power-Steering Fluid
By Valerie David, eHow Editor
Rate: (0 Ratings)
Function
Power steering fluid is a lubricant that helps prevent wear of seals and moving parts, as well as reducing squealing and rubbing noises. It is also a working component of the power steering hydraulic system, applying added pressure to the internal mechanisms to help make steering easier. Power steering fluid is designed to work when the car is idling or traveling at high speeds, in below-zero temperatures to triple digit heat.
Identification
Types
The ingredients of power steering fluid vary between manufacturers. According to the CDC, the most common bases for automotive hydraulic fluids are mineral oil, organophosphate ester, or polyalphaolefin (see Resources). Other esters may be added, along with glycols, corrosion inhibitors and/or silicones. Some auto manufacturers use transmission fluid in their power steering systems, while others have developed long-lasting, vehicle specific steering fluid to last up to 100,000 miles.
Considerations
Warning
As noted on Cars.com Car Talk, the seals and other components of the power steering break down over time and contaminate the power steering fluid. This debris can strain or clog the power steering pump and cause it to burn out. Leaks in the system are also dangerous. Without power steering fluid, the power steering system will fail and make turning the wheel extremely difficult, a dangerous hazard while driving.
Above quote from here:
http://www.ehow.com/about_4681487_po...ing-fluid.html
http://http://cardealerforums.com/al...mixed-gas.html
http://www.thecarconnection.com/answ...-into-gas-tank
About Power-Steering Fluid
By Valerie David, eHow Editor
Rate: (0 Ratings)
Function
Power steering fluid is a lubricant that helps prevent wear of seals and moving parts, as well as reducing squealing and rubbing noises. It is also a working component of the power steering hydraulic system, applying added pressure to the internal mechanisms to help make steering easier. Power steering fluid is designed to work when the car is idling or traveling at high speeds, in below-zero temperatures to triple digit heat.
Identification
Types
The ingredients of power steering fluid vary between manufacturers. According to the CDC, the most common bases for automotive hydraulic fluids are mineral oil, organophosphate ester, or polyalphaolefin (see Resources). Other esters may be added, along with glycols, corrosion inhibitors and/or silicones. Some auto manufacturers use transmission fluid in their power steering systems, while others have developed long-lasting, vehicle specific steering fluid to last up to 100,000 miles.
Considerations
Warning
As noted on Cars.com Car Talk, the seals and other components of the power steering break down over time and contaminate the power steering fluid. This debris can strain or clog the power steering pump and cause it to burn out. Leaks in the system are also dangerous. Without power steering fluid, the power steering system will fail and make turning the wheel extremely difficult, a dangerous hazard while driving.
Above quote from here:
http://www.ehow.com/about_4681487_po...ing-fluid.html
Last edited by trooplewis; Feb 20, 2009 at 04:04 PM.
I personally dont care what anyone says. Oils dont belong in a gas tank. Clear as that. How many of you have seen what oil does in a tank? Oil is lighter then gas, it'll pool at the top, once the tank gets low, guess whats getting sucked into your fuel pump, filter, lines, injectors, rail.
The concern is not of it burning, or really eating away at the lines. I accept what you said, my mistake, but the main concern is of the injectors and fuel pump. I personally would not run the risk of screwing up a set of injectors, filter and pump, rather, i would spend 2 hours, drop the tank, dispose of the gas, and clean the tank out.
Alternatively, you can do what is already mentioned, drive it, and just keep full tanking it, over time it will slowly dilute. That would not be the ideal way though. If you were ambitious, you could drop the tank, pull out the pump/pick up and pump out the top layer of PS fluid. Oil is lighter, so in theory it should float to the top. Suck out as much as you can and bob is your uncle.
Considering a set of used injectors will set you back about 50$, plus injector seals, labour to remove the plenum, plenum gasket, potentially the fuel filter/pump.
Oh and we just did a tank at work, gas station(husky) had a problem with there gas. The ethanol diaphragm leaked, and had a mixture of about 85% ethanol. Destroyed a full set of 8 injectors and fuel pump.
The concern is not of it burning, or really eating away at the lines. I accept what you said, my mistake, but the main concern is of the injectors and fuel pump. I personally would not run the risk of screwing up a set of injectors, filter and pump, rather, i would spend 2 hours, drop the tank, dispose of the gas, and clean the tank out.
Alternatively, you can do what is already mentioned, drive it, and just keep full tanking it, over time it will slowly dilute. That would not be the ideal way though. If you were ambitious, you could drop the tank, pull out the pump/pick up and pump out the top layer of PS fluid. Oil is lighter, so in theory it should float to the top. Suck out as much as you can and bob is your uncle.
Considering a set of used injectors will set you back about 50$, plus injector seals, labour to remove the plenum, plenum gasket, potentially the fuel filter/pump.
Oh and we just did a tank at work, gas station(husky) had a problem with there gas. The ethanol diaphragm leaked, and had a mixture of about 85% ethanol. Destroyed a full set of 8 injectors and fuel pump.
Last edited by 96blkonblkse; Feb 21, 2009 at 12:04 AM.
I'm sorry, but I disagree. 16oz of oil relative to 16 gallons of gas - you would never find the oil separately, because it would immediately mix. They are both petroleum products. Sure, it's not the ideal situation, but not the dire circumstance some of you portray.
Think about mixing two-cycle oil/gas mixtures. Much higher concentrations. such as 32:1, and immediately the two liquids mix and are indistinguishable from each other.
Power Steering fluid is not anti-freeze Terry. Honestly this isn't a whole lot different than putting some Marvel Mystery Oil in the tank... also a petroleum based lubricant. PS fluid isn't beneficial but a small amount is not going to destroy the car.
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 865
Drive on. Petroleum products are commonly used in the gas tank all the time. Think of gas, any fuel system cleaner, MMO, Lucas UCL, and 2 stroke oil to name a few.
The complete fuel system is made of materials that can withstand petroleum products. Brake and cooling systems are not. Not an apples to apples comparison.
The amount you put in (I'm assuming up to 16 ozs) will simply be burned off without you probably even knowing. No eating of fuel lines, burning up injectors, dissolving your gaskets, etc...
At 16 oz/18 gals fuel, you're looking at a dilution ration of about 144:1. Nothing to worry about. The power steering fluid will also mix with the fuel from sloshing around in the tank. No floating oil in your tank. No layer of oil at the bottom of the tank. And it won't coat the walls of the tank, either.
Dave
The complete fuel system is made of materials that can withstand petroleum products. Brake and cooling systems are not. Not an apples to apples comparison.
The amount you put in (I'm assuming up to 16 ozs) will simply be burned off without you probably even knowing. No eating of fuel lines, burning up injectors, dissolving your gaskets, etc...
At 16 oz/18 gals fuel, you're looking at a dilution ration of about 144:1. Nothing to worry about. The power steering fluid will also mix with the fuel from sloshing around in the tank. No floating oil in your tank. No layer of oil at the bottom of the tank. And it won't coat the walls of the tank, either.
Dave
Oil and gas were once close and good friends before they were separated at birth, after coming out of a middle-eastern hole in the ground.
This just gives them a chance at a family reunion, a time to mix it up again a bit and have some fun. They will blow off some energy, and enjoy a new atmosphere together.
Last edited by trooplewis; Feb 21, 2009 at 09:42 PM.
Not so long ago us crazy old guys used to dump a bit of oil in the tank to loosen sticky valves or run a bottle of water down the carburetor at a high idle to break up the carbon in the engine.
People are overly worried about an engine that's known to run after catastrophic failures that would kill most cars.
People are overly worried about an engine that's known to run after catastrophic failures that would kill most cars.
Hmm... both arguments are really good. Seafoam is a petroleum based product I believe and has directions that says it is supposed to be used in the gas, the brake booster, and directly into the oil. And there is a part that says you should put the Seafoam into a full tank of gas...
So I am thinking that maybe once it is diluted it won't be as dangerous to your lines, and as long as it is not just sitting there in the lines it won't corrode. But you should listen to the experts.
So I am thinking that maybe once it is diluted it won't be as dangerous to your lines, and as long as it is not just sitting there in the lines it won't corrode. But you should listen to the experts.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 865
Think of it like this.
Oil and gas were once close and good friends before they were separated at birth, after coming out of a middle-eastern hole in the ground.
This just gives them a chance at a family reunion, a time to mix it up again a bit and have some fun. They will blow off some energy, and enjoy a new atmosphere together.
Oil and gas were once close and good friends before they were separated at birth, after coming out of a middle-eastern hole in the ground.
This just gives them a chance at a family reunion, a time to mix it up again a bit and have some fun. They will blow off some energy, and enjoy a new atmosphere together.
Nozama's right, too, in that people used to add ATF (sometimes by the quart)to their tanks as a fuel system "cleaner" and upper cylinder lube. Nowadays, we use things like Lucas UCL and MMO. Good for unsticking valves and floats. Seafoam is used in much higher concentrations through a vacuum line and sucked straight in the intake (or carb), or a pint added to the gas.
Just drive on, and enjoy the cleaning/lube qualities.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,572
From: Middleboro/Carver, Ma
It's good to know there are a few other people out there who are aware that ps fluid & atf swells most rubber. Experience will always trump theory, or in this case opinions about "oh it's petroleum based, it's harmless"
Last edited by KRRZ350; Feb 22, 2009 at 04:27 AM.
Question?
iirc our fuel lines (and most since the late 80S/early 90s) are made of Neoprene correct?
Is so ,they will not swell.
however if they are in fact rubber it could swell, but at that dilution I would doubt it.
iirc our fuel lines (and most since the late 80S/early 90s) are made of Neoprene correct?
Is so ,they will not swell.
however if they are in fact rubber it could swell, but at that dilution I would doubt it.
Technically speaking the PS fluid may attack the seals or lines. Especially hot fluid at 100% concentration for extended exposure.
A little bit in the gas tank is hardly the same thing. The gas is cold, the fluid is extremely dilute, and it will not be in the system for long.
Can this thread close? I've burned a whole tank of gas in my Max since it was started, so if it was my car the question would be long gone.
Dave