ThreePointO

iTrader: (3)

so my max has a sort of strange issue starting. usually if it sits for more than a few hours i have to turn it to on wait a few seconds and then turn it over other wise it would take a while for it to start. sometimes it sits for days though and i dont have to do that. ( every once in a while i try it to see if i can find a pattern) About 3 months ago i tried just starting it up after it had been sitting for a few hours and it started and instantly died. then the 2nd time i started it it wouldve done the same thing but i stepped on the gas and brought the revs up to about 3k for a second and then its fine. its been doing that about once every 2 or 3 weeks since then. last night it did it and when i stepped on the gas this time and then let off the rmp's jumped around quite a bit 750-1000 ( i dont remember exactly), so i gave it gas for a second, didnt jump aorund when i was giving it gas, then let off did the same thing. i kept doing this for about 20 seconds and then it was fine. the car didnt seem to drive any different than normal. Since ive owned the car every few months i get a code for an 02 sensor and a knock sensor. the light has been off since October but then came on yesterday when i was driving home from work. 3 start ups after the light came on is i had that issue i just described. I use 93 octane fuel. usually shell. any ideas?

i have to run to autozone after class to pick up some fog lights. ill have them check the codes and post them up

pmohr

iTrader: (26)

Generally speaking it's better to just wait a second with the key in ignition anyway, to prime the fuel system.

How old is your fuel filter? It's not listed as a maintenance item, but it is.

Are there any environmental conditions that seem to cause this starting issue? Cold, hot, raining, etc?

Also some sentence structure and paragraphs would make your post a lot easier to read.

ThreePointO

iTrader: (3)

wow im sorry about that. i didnt type that post my g/f typed it for me cause she was on my laptop and wouldn't let me type it. ( i type to slow aparently)

i havent ever changed the fuel filter but ive only owned the care for about a year and a half so its possible the guy who owned it before me did it.

There are no factors that effect it. the only thing i can think of is the temp of the engine. like i said, sometimes the car sits for days and its fine, and sometimes it sits for an hour and doesnt want to start. But if i let the fuel system prime it starts up perfect nearly 100% of the time. The only ting i noticed is that it happens more at night time, but i dont kno how that would have any factor.

Steve-O97

I've been having this same problem. It's been doing it on me for about a year now. I've been meaning to change the fuel filter cuz I figured that's what it was but I wasn't sure. I don't know jack didly about changin a fuel filter tho. Is it something I could do myself just by reading one of the repair books? Or is it more of a pain in the @ss take it to a mechanic job? Any idea about how long it would take? I know mechanics around where I live charge about a flat rate of about 40-60 an hour. Thanks

pmohr

iTrader: (26)

Here you go, from search:
http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...el-filter.html
http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...lter-line.html
http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...el-filter.html
http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...xperience.html

Max-e-MO!

iTrader: (2)

pmohr,

This is the exact problem I've sent you a PM about (same old story, ask a question , find what your looking for after).

Leave the car sitting for 3-4+ hours, get in (don't touch the gas pedel) turn the key, instant start, and the instant dead motor. Start again, and rev the motor to 2-3000 rpms for two second, idles fine, runs fine. Drive to the store, run in, come out starts like there's no problem.

Here's what I've done to correct the problem:
1. New fuel filter (easy enough), no change.
2. New fuel PUMP (209k pump was needing changing anyways), no change.
3. New (used) fuel rail with injectors (my mechanic has a few new choice words for me now),side note on this one, #4 fuel injector was leaking gas due to faulty seal,thought this was the loss of fuel pressure, viola, NO CHANGE.

No check engine lights, getting anywhere from 18-25mpg (depend on how I drive), once started, runs like a champ.

Somethings making me lose fuel pressure during the "down" time, but what else can it be???

Hope this might help in the wierd start up problems everyone else is having, though it's causing me more (because I want to KNOW the answer damn it!!!, so I can say it's officially fixed). Thanks.

pmohr

iTrader: (26)

Change the ECTS, clean the TB and IACV. The ECTS will (correction: should) solve your problem, the TB/IACV need cleaning anyway at your mileage.

Max-e-MO!

iTrader: (2)

Lets go over some stuff for any newbie out there (that and I'm not for sure myself on some of these)

What's a ECTS and IACV (TB is throttle body, I know)?

Where is the ECTS and the IACV found?

How is the IACV cleaned?

Thanks again.

pmohr

iTrader: (26)

ECTS == Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor.
IACV == Idle Air Control Valve.

ECTS is on the coolant log that runs next to the heads. It'll be the forward most sensor (IIRC), with a two wire connector (the one next to it with a spade connector is the temp sensor for the gauge). Part is around $20 at an auto parts store.

The IACV is on the driver's side of the upper intake manifold, found rearward of the TB, there'll be 4 harness connectors on it and a large intake hose going to it. 3 12mm head bolts and it comes off. At the very least, remove the gold cup on the inside of it (3 phillips head screws) and spray it out with brake parts or throttle body cleaner. You can also remove the two fast idle solenoids (the two roughly cylindrical pieces with connectors on the end), these control the idle bump when using the AC or PS. If you remove those, give them a good cleaning as well.

mightyMax95

iTrader: (5)

to the OP, my mom's taurus had the same issue where you would have to turn the key and let the fuel system re-pressurize. in her case it was the fuel pump (she always waits till the last minute to fill up again).

unfortunately you problem could still be any number of things. start with pmohr's suggestion about the fuel filter. the filters are only a couple of bucks and potentially the least expensive fix. should take less than 10 min to change. don't forget to de-pressurize the fuel system first, otherwise things tend to get messy and smelly. do that and report back.

and to Max-e-MO, i had a somewhat similar issue with the ects. was such a pain when i didn't know what the problem was, lol. fortunately, it was a cheap, easy and quick fix.

Max-e-MO!

iTrader: (2)

My Hats off to pmohr and mightyMax95,

This has been an aggravating problem since I first bought the car less than a year ago, can't wait to get home and see if it corrects the problem. I'll let you know if it solves it.

Thanks again, to the both of you.

pmohr

iTrader: (26)

Some visual aids, now that I'm at a computer:

venturous

This sound much like the problem on my 95. Mine is temperature sensitive as when it is about 35º or below, the car starts instantly and idles fine. Above that it does not want to idle and it will have an idle surge from about 500 to 1,200 rpm's and die several times.
Good info guys and we appreciate it.
Randy

Max-e-MO!

iTrader: (2)

pmohr, if we ever meet, I don't know if I'll shake your hand or kiss ya...
You are da Man!!!

pmohr

iTrader: (26)

Didja git 'r done?

Max-e-MO!

iTrader: (2)

Nope, still out of town, but man I'm gunho to get home and get that car fixed. All the info you given me is the reason I'm gonna kiss you. Your better than a tech manual from the factory, because my six year old could fix the car with the information you've given me.

Is the Max's all your good at or are you good at all cars?

pmohr

iTrader: (26)

Generally speaking, the concepts transfer from one vehicle to most. I know Maximas the best, followed by the 350z/G35 (though mostly performance oriented), then Hondas and 3000GT/Stealth. Everything else is about the same.

Personally, the least computer intrusion there is while still being fuel injected, and I don't mind working on it. Newer cars (like the Z), or anything carburated is kind of eh.

Leo_Koneval

iTrader: (4)

Haha Pmohr does it again! I swear you are the glue holding us all together i was thinking the TB as well, use SEAFOAM to clean it! I made a thread a while ago about seafoam as a TB cleaner. Just pour some on a rag and wrap the rag around a stick or something and scrub around the TB it does wonders!

scottphillips88

Thanks for all the tips and info guys. My 95 was having the same starting problem. ( when it sat for more than 6 hours in cold weather, you needed to give it gas or else it would start and kill instantly) I replaced the coolant temp sensor that was mentioned above. $26 at checker. I found it was very easy once I removed the air intake. Now my max has new brakes and a new sensor as of today. I will report back if the sensor solves the problem. Fingers crossed for now!

Max-e-MO!

iTrader: (2)

Pmohr, HELP!!... Ok here's the latest:

I've changed the ETCS, cleaned the IACV and the two fast idle Solenoids, and the end result:
the same!

Let the car set for more than 5-6 hours, get in, turn key, starts and instantly dies. Start up and give gas runs fine, drive around and stop, get back in starts up with no problems. This is really getting aggravating!!

Any other suggestion of what I might try short of getting a new motor or car? I was really hoping that would solve the problem. Grrrrrrrrrr....I'm open to any suggestion!

pmohr

iTrader: (26)

Double check for codes, there may be some pending or stored that aren't illuminating the CEL. If the CEL is burnt out, you'll have to use an OBD-II scanner.

Max-e-MO!

iTrader: (2)

Autozone, or some other place can check that, right?

pmohr

iTrader: (26)

Yep. Just a good thing to do before we go through any more diagnosis, really.

Max-e-MO!

iTrader: (2)

I'm out the door the get the codes read, I'll let you know something later tonight, Thanks!

Max-e-MO!

iTrader: (2)

Ok pmohr, the results are in: ALL PASS, nothing wrong, no codes found (ahh, the plot thickens....this is almost as good as a murder mystery, except I can find out the ending).

I have noticed that when I turn the car on, I don't have a CEL coming on like battery, airbag, etc., so I wasn't even sure if the CEL was working (burned out). What next?

Let me know, and thanks for everthing so far, I know this is got every one as stumped as me.

pmohr

iTrader: (26)

Yea, if it doesn't come on with KOEO (key on engine off), then the bulb is likely burnt out or removed.

Hmm...

You did replace the correct ECTS? The one with the 2 pin connector?

Failing that, I'd throw a gauge inline with the feed from the filter, make sure it is indeed a fuel problem.

Max-e-MO!

iTrader: (2)

I've got a extra gauge cluster, I'll put the CEL bulb from it into the car's cluster tonight.

Yep, 2-pin and 19mm open wrentch to remove and replace it. (Not to mention having to remove the air intake, gotta get me a cold air intake!!)

I was afraid you would say that... any suggestion which inline gauge would be best? I hate messing with the fuel line, but I know it's got to be check. But if it is losing pressure, where from - replace rail, fuel filter, and pump(filter and pump are brand new), where else could it be losing pressure from? That what I haven't been able to get an answer for.

Thanks again.

jdooley

Regarding the CEL behavior, is this not the behavior you get if you inadvertantly leave the screw on the ECU in the reset position instead of the run position?

Max-e-MO!

iTrader: (2)

Ohhh, that's like replacing the wiring in a room, only to find out the light bulb was burnt out...but if that's what it sounds like, how do I correct it (or what does it look like in the reset mode)?

Anyways, on top of that, I pulled out the main cluster last night, and put a working bulb into the CEL and NOTHING. Swapped it back for good measure, and the bulb is good. But for some reason, KOEO poosition, I don't seem to have a CEL light at all?!?!?! Think this might be a lead to what wrong.. You all let me know.

And again, thanks to all for the input, I sure that between everone I will find the answer (eventually!!)

jdooley

I am not sure about this, unfortuneately, but if the aforementioned screw is left in the reset position it will never accumulate codes and apparently not even light up. The simplist thing to do is simply to try rotating it clockwise until it stops. Be careful, that stop is not too robust. Someone broke the one on mine so I have to pay more attention to exactly where I turn it.

Max-e-MO!

iTrader: (2)

That would sure explain the no CEL, pmohr any info on adjusting the reset/run position on the ECM? If anyone has the information, that would definely be you...

Thanks

jdooley

You can just try it and see if it can turn clockwise at all, if not, then forget I even brought it up.

pmohr

iTrader: (26)

If the screw isn't in the correct location, it can cause driveability issues, or just won't start up, IIRC. It shouldn't cause a starting issue as he has.

Max-e-MO!

iTrader: (2)

Great, another road to nowhere, whee, hey is that a brick wall???

Alrighty then, any other suggestions? I'll listen to about anything, shoot, I'm thinking about looking for a 00vi to see if THAT might solve the problem... let me know, thanks.

(Somewhere I've done somebody way wrong and charma is having too much fun. - Can we say Greek Tragdy??Anyone??)

Max-e-MO!

iTrader: (2)

Ok MAJOR UPDATE:

Talking in PM, pmohr and I decided to change the ECU out to determine why I had no check engine light.

Found out three things:
1. Original ECU was a reman unit (means nothing, common replacement item)
2. Reset/run screw seal had been broken, meaning someone HAS altered with the ECU (though it did appear that the screw was turn back to the proper setting [run])
3. Taking out a ECU is not as easy as the book makes it out to be - they got a special tool for those screws in that tight space?

After replacing the ECU (set screw seal unbroke, compontents clean - no dirt/dust - I checked), turn key on but left motor off, guess what?

I HAVE A CHECK ENGINE LIGHT NOW - YEA!!

Ok start motor light goes off (GREAT!!)
(Still warm from earlier trip, thus no idea if this is the root for the weird startup or not)

Start driving, guess what decides to come on, yep that CEL (oh boy!!)

Go to auto parts store for scan, told that O2 (1st Bank #2 - passenger before cat).
Went ahead and bought new O2 and plan on putting it in tonight.

My question of the day is:

Could this be the problem that causing the car to have short starts after sitting for 5-6 hours, but run normal after warming up??

Or is this just a consequence of the ECU finally reading right, and more than likely it will die upon starting in the morning, aka problem #2 solved, problem #1 unresolved?

Anyone want to take a guess before sunrise??

Again thanks a whole lot, all of you.

pmohr

iTrader: (26)

FWIW there's a much easier way to remove the ECU than getting at those 4 phillips head screws; take out the center stack (radio, vents, everything), pop up the BCM and TCM (if auto), and pull the two vent tubes down there. Then you can get right at the two 10mm head bolts that hold the ECU bracket in place, and it'll slide right out.

Only takes 10 minutes or so to do all of that. You've still got to deal with the wiring harness and all, but it's a lot easier, IMO. Was able to pull the ECU in one 4th gen in ~18 minutes using that method, without breaking any wiring harness clips or anything.

The O2 sensor is unlikely, honestly. Hopefully something else will set a code, or it was just an ECU issue all along.

Max-e-MO!

iTrader: (2)

You know, that's how I took the donor car's ECU, that was by no means easier IMO, especially the auto-lock cable on the auto shifter (you know you can't cut that sucker with a professional pair of wire cutter - I tried)

I'm not gonna guess how you removed the wiring harness without breaking a clip or anything, especially that firewall bundle with the sinch straps. You are definely the better man in that catagory (I'll not even try!!)

I know that the O2 is probably not the problem, I feel its more likely the ECU that was doing some weird stuff. I did try to turn the old unit's reset/run screw and it would turn 360 degrees with a small "pop" noise about 275 degrees and would then keep turn the same direction.

But the new O2's in, new (used) ECU in (with unbroken security seal on reset/run switch), and in the morning maybe it will start without touching the gas peddle (Wish me luck, or prayer really hard for me).

Let you all know later, Thanks.

jdooley

Wow, that's a bummer, I was going to offer you some money to take that old ECU off your hands because I assumed it's mode selector screw would be undamaged. Oh well.

Max-e-MO!

iTrader: (2)

I appreciate that, I was wondering if this things was worth anything to anyone. I'll take any offers, runs car without the worry of CEL, great if you selling the car!!! LOL

Justock

Max-e-Mo, did you give up? I'm watching this thread because my '95 GLE has the same problem. I hooked up a fuel pressure meter and found that it bleeds down to zero over night. The first attempt to start the engine causes it to fire before the fuel pressure gets above 15 or 20 lbs. Then it sputters and dies. The second attempt takes the pressure from about 15 lbs to 30+ lbs and the car starts, revs for a moment, and idles perfectly with about 34 lbs steady pressure. So I figure it's one of two problems...

1) The pressure should not bleed down so much overnight.
2) The fuel pump is getting weak and unable to get from 0 to 30+ lbs quickly enough.

I just replaced the fuel filter...no help. I wanted to do more experimenting, but now I am laid up with a bad back, so I can't work on it for a while. Please keep posting your results. I admire your determination and appreciate the help that others are giving you.

I got the gauge for $8.99 at Harbor Freight:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92699