From this bolded statement here, you have the exact problem I have.

There's another thread going that some have had success with changing the Cam Position Sensor.

i have the same problem sort of

1st try it cranks but no start
2nd try it starts right away

97 se, man, 188k

new battery, new plugs, fresh oil, cleaned IAV, new starter (non-oem), newer CTS, newer knock sensor,

with winter coming i just wanna have it fixed been fighting this thing for almost 2 years ... just when i seem to get it, it hard starts again.... sigh....

any thoughts ?

Details? Does it happen for every start or just when the car had sit for a period of time (EG first start in the morning)? If only happen when the car after hours of sitting, you might likely have the same problem - FPR. The FPR is expensive, it would nice if you know anyone that has the gauge to do a fuel pressure testing.

From what I have read if your FPR is defective, when you pull the vaccum hose from the bottom of the FPR it would be moist with gasoline. If you do not have this, it is probably OK. I picked up am FPR a couple of months ago on Amazon for $35.

So I installed a new Camshaft Position sensor after reading another thread, and it does the same thing.

Could it really be the starter not sending the right signal so the car dies? All I do is tap the gas to get her to fire up and then off I go.

every start. it can be normal operating temp once i turn it off and i try it again it will not start the 1st time (maybe it will 1 out of 50 times) and its so frustrating cuz the car runs GREAT once its running so i have no idea as of now

i do have a gauge but not the kind i need ot do this test ... i need to TEE the line somewhere between the pump and FPR and our fuel rails are not designed for that

i figured i can run the car pinch the line and try to start it.... same thing (i dont know if thats an effective way to test) but i did it anyway

does any know what the resistance should be the for the CPS and both CKPSs ??????

yes that is true how ever if you dont see gas it doesnt rule out a weak FPR

Unlikely, once the car is started the starter is totally out of the picture, you could remove it from the car. Ther starter is just a motor that you turn on and off. There are no signals from the starter.

how does one test for a leaky fuel injector? i seem to sell fuel after the 1st failed attempt at starting ....but do i smell fuel cuz it failed to start or did it fail to start because of unburned fuel?

STARTING PROBLEM FIXED!!!!!!

took out the CKPS (POS) had a big chunk of metal on it cleaned it off now the car starts everytime ... ill keep everyone posted but if you dont hear of this again consider it fix

so everyone knows i have
changed the plugs (NGK platinum)
added grounding points
changed ECTS
new battery
newer non oem starter
cleaned ignition switch (take extra caution if you decided to do this)
CLEANED CKPS (POS)- i believe this was the culprit from the beginning

thanks
everyone

What the fastest way to get at this CPS (POS)? I can check that tonight.

its on the front side of the motor right under the slave cylinder held in by one 10mm bolt

once you have the bolt out pull it away from the bell housing

there is also a way to test the sensor ill see if i can find the procedure

the procedure is in this tread

http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...ont-start.html

When I turn the key forward to the test the sub POS connector, I'm getting a low, patterned clicking noise around the throttle body area... interesting.

see this thread http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...what-part.html

if its coming from the IACV.... from what i have read.... the screw to get your CEL codes isnt turned full counter-clockwise

how did the ckps pos look? how did it test out?

You sir would have a very frosty beverage on me for that one. Thanks.

The sub connector up top tested out fine with all the voltages based on the chart in linked pictures in that thread.

Gone back to testing the lower CPS (POS) connector, trying to find a good ground.

edit: everything looks good on that lower connector too, got all the required voltages.

The wiring harness for this car is a nightmare. In order for my car to actually start right in the mornings and not have to sit there for 2 seconds more than its supposed to, I have to wiggle the wire of the connector of the CPS in order for it to make good contact with the sensor. v.v

humm.. thats weird..... you can get the some goop(i think its called diode electric grease) to put in the connector to help that (the stuff you are suppose to put on bulbs)



lbrowne

did you pull the ckps(pos) out and inspect it ?

All done. All back together. All voltages checked out fine for the CPS (POS).

I think my CPS (REF) and Camshaft Postion Sensor were fine even though I replaced them over the last couple of days trying to fix this problem.

Once the voltages checked out ok, I removed the CPS (POS) and there were little metal shavings all over it. I cleaned them off and the shiny tip of the sensor was basically gummed right over. I cleaned it all good and put it all back.

The real test comes tomorrow morning she sits in the cold overnight and I go to start her in the morning.

Thank you so much for your help smai555.

Well good news and bad news I guess.

Bad news:

I go out this morning after it sat all night. The car absolutely did not want to start. It cranked and cranked over and over. I tried putting my foot to the floor, pumping the gas pedal as well. Tried putting the gas pedal to the floor before trying to start. Just kept cranking and cranking.

You could hear the fuel pump engaging. I left the car for just a moment and then on the next try it fired up (I was giving it throttle) But it idled fine immediately.

When driving to work, if I floored the car when travelling 25mph so it would do a kick down - the car revved and would not shift the transmission down as if it didn't know the speed. Make note that before I did this last night, the car would kick down with authority and depending on the condition of the pavement - it could break the tires loose.

Once i got to work (about 20 clicks away), the car would start no problem whatsoever. I bet tonight when I get off work, it'll have trouble again.


No CEL.

Good news:

I think I've now determined the CPS (POS) must be faulty. After my cleaning last night maybe me scraping the crude off it damaged it. The harness checked out perfect according to the FSM. The car wasn't anything like this until I took out the CPS (POS) and cleaned it.

I know it has been brought up, but my opinion is that the max has a very grounding system. I had a similar problem on my 97 SE. Very hard start in the morning or after sitting for 4 or 5 hours. The car ran great once started and started right up if it was warm. Tried turning key on and letting fuel pump work for 30 sec, new filter, plugs, etc. Nothing helped.

I decided to do a grounding kit. I made my own for about 10 bucks. Took about 30 min to install. After I did this one evening, the next morning it started right up! And has started perfectly ever time for about 4 months now.

Make sure you get a sanding block or dremel sanding attachment. Clean all paint, corrosion, etc. from your new connection points. See the link below for a good illustration of grounding points.

http://www.activetuning.com/products...stallation.php

I just used 10 gage wire and connectors from the AZ. 4 gauge wire is overkill in my opinion.

My starter clearly turned over faster after the kit install.

Just a thought and really easy and cheap to do.

I did the ground connections near the fuel rail that are for the CPS (POS). Unscrewed the 2 bolts, sanded the connecting surfaces and screwed everything back in.

I would think the grounds were an issue as well but this problem went from an inconvenience to absolute problem ever since I removed and cleaned the CPS (POS).

So I'll pick up the new CPS (POS) tonight, and while I'm doing that I'll clean up the grounds as well.

well cleaning it would only help it ..... i know this will sound dumb but please double check that all the harnesses are clipped in ALL the way i have done this a few times before where i thought it was all the way in but it wasn't


have you changed /checked your ECTS?

I rechecked the harnesses this morning and all were secure.

I'll do a search on the ECTS - I checked my relays and fuses for the ECCS and all those are good.

In cleaning the CPS(POS) I had to scrape my fingernail along the exposed metal piece at the tip to make it shiny again.

When I put the car back together last night, I had to move it in the garage and it fired up immediately. (it had been running about 2-3 hours prior) If I didn't have something connected correctly it wouldn't have fired up then.

But when it sat over night, it REALLY didn't want to start the next morning.

yea....ECTS sounds like you should investigate... at least ohm it out at different temps

yea....ECTS sounds like you should investigate... at least ohm it out at different temps

by the way have you done any sort of additional grounding ?

Holy headache Batman!!! I have had this SAME starting problem for quite some time. What I want to know is...has anyone else had the engine stall while turning corners at low speeds? Does anyone think that the ethanol in the gasoline could have caused these issues? We have had a lot of problems with TOO MUCH ethanol in the fuel in this area and people's boats and cars are having lots of stalling/starting issues because of it. Could the ethanol be allowing water into the fuel system and causing corrosion in the system?

I am just so sick of this ongoing issue and am ready for a solution. I am going to change the FPS an see if that fixes it, it seems logical. Ugh.......

Smai555: I think I'll check my starter grounds as well when I do this tonight. Also going to check my cold idle settings on the throttle body. My starting is by far worse after removing the CPS (POS) so I'm getting a new sensor. But before that when it was hesitant to start in the cold requiring me to give it a tap of gas, the cold idle info I read could be the problem. When I did my FPR I removed my TB out of the way. I might have struck the cold idle setting so it's not set correctly. OR maybe that was the problem in the first! lol (cold idle setting not set right)

I might see if there's a ground cable I can buy at the auto parts store and just put another one on. (is there a good spot to do it? I seen some ran a cable to the battery neg terminal.) Just wondering what length I should buy.

i ran mine from the tranny to the neg term


ibrowne - did you do the screw driver test on the CKPS(POS) ?

UPDATE ON STARTING
this morning it took 2 trys to start it but after that it was fine ... im guessing it is now a cold start issue now ....

im going to guess im losing fuel pressure weather its though the injectors or the FPR or a cold starting sensor of some sort im not sure but i will say its a TON better starting

I thought I had to run a new ground from the starter itself to somewhere. So grounding the bellhousing/trans to the neg term should be enough?

What is the screw driver test on the CKPS(POS)?

There is a thread I read that had this concerning cold weather starts, onvolving the cold idle:

"Your cold idle circuit may not be working or adjusted correctly.
There is a plunger on the throttle body, it's down under it, twards the left slightly. Follow the linkage. That plunger pushes on the throttle linkage and opens the throttle plate slightly when the engine is cold. (your tap on the gas) The plunger may not be working, or the linkage may not be adjusted correctly. There is a scribe mark on that linkage that should line up with a mark on the follower at specific temperatures. The Haynes manual has pictures of this and explaines how the cold idle circuit is adjusted.
Thats probably whats causing your cold starting issue. Once you get the engine running by tapping on the gas, the IACV takes over and keeps it running for you. The cold idle circuit is supposed to have the throttle plate already open slightly for the initial startup when your engine is cold.
Get the Haynes shop manual and go through the adjustment process and I can almost guarantee your car will start correctly when it's cold.
If the cold idle plunger is not working, the only fix is to replace the throttle body. That part is not sold seperately by Nissan. "

So after work today the same thing, the car really didn't want to start.

Once it finally did, I drove it about 20k to the autoparts store, it was well within operating temps obviously. I get my new CPS(POS) sensor, come out and the car was hesitant to start, not as bad as first in the morning or after sitting for 8 hours but it needed a couple of tries.

I get it home, I change the CPS(POS), make sure all connections were good. Test-started the car and it fired right away.

Now I'm waiting while it sits in the cold to try starting it again. If it starts right away I'll take it for a spin around the block to make sure the kickdown down shift is back to normal. (see what happened above this morning)

I still think you guys should double check the air leak.

just in general? or a specific spot?

"the air leak"? Everything with the intake is buttoned down tight.

My problem got insanely worse when I removed, cleaned, and reinstalled the CPS(POS). Going out soon to try the car, another 1/2 hour or so.

as far as the air leak nothing on the out side appears to be leaking although i guess i can run the car and spray starter fluid in the area and see if it jumps in idle

im waiting til the morning to see if the cold idle air valve(plunger) is working, i know as it gets hotter it will close the throttle plate (lowering the idle) i see how to adjust it but how do i know if its too far open or closed? .... i suppose it idles kinda high when its cold (1100-1200 rpm) so i can close it a little maybe its getting too much air on start up

got my fingers crossed for ya let up know how it goes sounds like the end is near for you

Ok so, I'm trying to keep my hopes in check.

The car has been out in the unheated garage like always - for about the last 5 hours since I did the sensor swap. When I completed the install I left it without trying to start it.

I go to start it just now and fires up instantly. Perfect idle right away.

I take it for a spin and try a couple of WOTs and it kicked down with authority and accelerated instantly.

So now, I wait till tomorrow morning. So that it sits overnight when it will definitely get cooler. I'll try her again tomorrow morning and I hope for the safety and well being of that car, she fires up right away. lol

sounds excellent

i just got a CEL, O2 and VSS from what i have read they are like ghost few people have given up.... ill test them but if they test good ill wait till spring to chase the goose

keep us posted in the morning

by FPS do u mean FPR? if so i would slow down and dont shoot the money gun at it i think we can all help you troubleshoot thats why we are here (most of us anyway)


is your CEL on?
how is your idle?
does it crank and crank and crank then start?
does it take a few tries?
what kind of mods if any do u have?
manual or auto?
did you have this problem before the ethanol thing?

do u have a multimeter?
you might want to test and clean a few parts 1st

grounding the tranny to the neg term (easy and relativity cheap) and has shown great success in the past with alot of members

Getting there. Keep us posted.

I go out this morning and the car had been sitting for I guess 8 hours untouched in the cold. It was about -5 Celsius overnight I would think. It even snowed a bit.

Got in, turned the key, fired up instantly.

No stumble, no funny idle, no rpm racing, just a clean fast start.

I think I got it!