Metal Scraping While Starting (Long read)
10-01-2009, 09:16 PM
#1
Metal Scraping While Starting (Long read)
PROBLEM SOLVED! AGAIN!
Sorry for making another one of the "starting problems" thread, but I searched and read threads from several pages and most of them don't seem to relate to what I am having.
But here it goes, for the past few months I have been having problems starting my car, that happens at random, sometimes weeks in between incidents and as little as a few hours or minutes.
My first problem was turning the key to START and not hearing anything, there was no click or reset of the dummy lights and all the electrical things work like headlights, radio, ect.
Then that problem went away by itself after a while and the car started to start okay, but the cranks seemed really really slow, and there is usually a loud scraping sound right before it cranks so it sounds kind of like
(chuuuga......... chuuuuuga........chuuuga............vrroooom...... .crunch crunch...... die)
And that slow starting problem was fixed by sticking tape into the ignition switch and eventually hot glue (Comes off easily it doesn't stick like its supposed to) to form a seal all along the + of the switch)
And now my car cranks up fast which I remember is how it cranked when I first got it, but the metal scraping sound is back, I don't know how to describe it, but if you were to turn your key to START after the engine is already running, that is the sound I hear right before the engine fires. So now my starts sound like
(chuga..chuga..chuga..vrroom..crunch...stall)
And each time after these crunching sounds appear, I usually cannot restart the car it keeps cranking but won't fire and it takes a good 2 or 3 tries until it finally fires and the RPM jumps really high for a second and then go down to normal idle RPM
All my battery terminals are clean (cleaned with wire brush 3 times and covered), my fuel filter and pump has recently been replaced, my ignition switch seems fine I don't see any burn marks or whatever, TB has recently been cleaned, I haven't replaced the transmission or whatever, flushed coolant and didn't see any rust or corrosion on the little sensors.
And so after months of these crunching sounds which I think cannot be good for the motor... I need your help
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
All of the suggestions made, has been correct! It was the starter the whole time.
What I tried first before getting a entirely new starter was to take my old one out and then examine it and when I took it apart, I found blackened grease. and the part with magnets all around was covered in black dust and the part giant ring of metal plates it goes around was covered in black dust and black greasy material.
And when I banged the entire starter gently on the ground I found that more chunks of black stuff fell out and so I took a can of compressed air and blew everything off, and opened just about everything I can, except the solenoid. Then cleaned it all off with paper towels and dumped the gears into valvoline red grease it was practically swimming in grease, but I think I might have gone overboard a little bit.
And so afer cleaning every part I can possibly squeeze a towel and napkin into I greased everything back up and cleaned all the magnets and then put it back on my car to find out that even after repeatedly turning off and starting my car over and over and over for 6 or 7 times, no noise!! In addition, while I had the starter opened up I sanded the contacts and the studs the bolts go on, because it had a white layer of gunk on it and I think it contributed to my problems also. But all in all, I am glad to fix the annoying starter grind.
I spent only 5 dollars on a problem that would normally cost $100+ to fix, and I hope you guys find this helpful.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
It seems like the re-greasing was only a temporary fix, because only a few weeks later my starter completely failed although the metal scraping sound never came back, I guess the components I did not mess with like the starter solenoid and what not were dieing already and I only helped prolong my starter's life for a tiny bit, until one day 18 miles away from my home my car would not start anymore... every thing electrical worked: radio, wipers, lights, ect. And so after getting it towed down to a local shop and diagnosed I got the starter replaced and so far everything seems to be back to normal and my cranks are a lot faster now with a new starter.
Sorry for making another one of the "starting problems" thread, but I searched and read threads from several pages and most of them don't seem to relate to what I am having.
But here it goes, for the past few months I have been having problems starting my car, that happens at random, sometimes weeks in between incidents and as little as a few hours or minutes.
My first problem was turning the key to START and not hearing anything, there was no click or reset of the dummy lights and all the electrical things work like headlights, radio, ect.
Then that problem went away by itself after a while and the car started to start okay, but the cranks seemed really really slow, and there is usually a loud scraping sound right before it cranks so it sounds kind of like
(chuuuga......... chuuuuuga........chuuuga............vrroooom...... .crunch crunch...... die)
And that slow starting problem was fixed by sticking tape into the ignition switch and eventually hot glue (Comes off easily it doesn't stick like its supposed to) to form a seal all along the + of the switch)
And now my car cranks up fast which I remember is how it cranked when I first got it, but the metal scraping sound is back, I don't know how to describe it, but if you were to turn your key to START after the engine is already running, that is the sound I hear right before the engine fires. So now my starts sound like
(chuga..chuga..chuga..vrroom..crunch...stall)
And each time after these crunching sounds appear, I usually cannot restart the car it keeps cranking but won't fire and it takes a good 2 or 3 tries until it finally fires and the RPM jumps really high for a second and then go down to normal idle RPM
All my battery terminals are clean (cleaned with wire brush 3 times and covered), my fuel filter and pump has recently been replaced, my ignition switch seems fine I don't see any burn marks or whatever, TB has recently been cleaned, I haven't replaced the transmission or whatever, flushed coolant and didn't see any rust or corrosion on the little sensors.
And so after months of these crunching sounds which I think cannot be good for the motor... I need your help
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
All of the suggestions made, has been correct! It was the starter the whole time.
What I tried first before getting a entirely new starter was to take my old one out and then examine it and when I took it apart, I found blackened grease. and the part with magnets all around was covered in black dust and the part giant ring of metal plates it goes around was covered in black dust and black greasy material.
And when I banged the entire starter gently on the ground I found that more chunks of black stuff fell out and so I took a can of compressed air and blew everything off, and opened just about everything I can, except the solenoid. Then cleaned it all off with paper towels and dumped the gears into valvoline red grease it was practically swimming in grease, but I think I might have gone overboard a little bit.
And so afer cleaning every part I can possibly squeeze a towel and napkin into I greased everything back up and cleaned all the magnets and then put it back on my car to find out that even after repeatedly turning off and starting my car over and over and over for 6 or 7 times, no noise!! In addition, while I had the starter opened up I sanded the contacts and the studs the bolts go on, because it had a white layer of gunk on it and I think it contributed to my problems also. But all in all, I am glad to fix the annoying starter grind.
I spent only 5 dollars on a problem that would normally cost $100+ to fix, and I hope you guys find this helpful.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
It seems like the re-greasing was only a temporary fix, because only a few weeks later my starter completely failed although the metal scraping sound never came back, I guess the components I did not mess with like the starter solenoid and what not were dieing already and I only helped prolong my starter's life for a tiny bit, until one day 18 miles away from my home my car would not start anymore... every thing electrical worked: radio, wipers, lights, ect. And so after getting it towed down to a local shop and diagnosed I got the starter replaced and so far everything seems to be back to normal and my cranks are a lot faster now with a new starter.
Last edited by Leo_Koneval; 11-07-2009 at 09:39 PM.
10-01-2009, 10:13 PM
#2
Any codes ??? Check the ECT sensor.
The reason it revs after start up is that the injectors fire in batch mode (all fire during start up) so there's excess fule in the cylinders. As for the crunching noise ... have you replaced the starter. Sounds to me like it's not disengaging as it should, maybe getting hung up. That would also account for the slow spin when you hit the key. Starters have a LOT of torque so it shouldn't be a struggle for it to spin the flywheel. I'd pull any codes, change the stater and go from there.
The reason it revs after start up is that the injectors fire in batch mode (all fire during start up) so there's excess fule in the cylinders. As for the crunching noise ... have you replaced the starter. Sounds to me like it's not disengaging as it should, maybe getting hung up. That would also account for the slow spin when you hit the key. Starters have a LOT of torque so it shouldn't be a struggle for it to spin the flywheel. I'd pull any codes, change the stater and go from there.
10-01-2009, 11:54 PM
#3
Any codes ??? Check the ECT sensor.
The reason it revs after start up is that the injectors fire in batch mode (all fire during start up) so there's excess fule in the cylinders. As for the crunching noise ... have you replaced the starter. Sounds to me like it's not disengaging as it should, maybe getting hung up. That would also account for the slow spin when you hit the key. Starters have a LOT of torque so it shouldn't be a struggle for it to spin the flywheel. I'd pull any codes, change the stater and go from there.
The reason it revs after start up is that the injectors fire in batch mode (all fire during start up) so there's excess fule in the cylinders. As for the crunching noise ... have you replaced the starter. Sounds to me like it's not disengaging as it should, maybe getting hung up. That would also account for the slow spin when you hit the key. Starters have a LOT of torque so it shouldn't be a struggle for it to spin the flywheel. I'd pull any codes, change the stater and go from there.
And sorry but I don't know where the ECT sensor is
I'll search, haha
But I've come to the conclusion that it is either my ignition switch, starter, or spark plugs. And I want to confirm 100% before I take it to the mechanic to get whatever part replaced, since last time the mechanic replaced the wrong parts (Fuel pump) thinking that it was the problem but I guess it wasn't
And um... my mom won't let me go anywhere near the engine because she thinks that I somehow caused the problem and so I need to somehow diagnose this going on codes and a few glimpses inside the engine and such, but nothing major.
She trusts the mechanic who replaced the wrong part more then me
I'll pull the codes and check the ECT and check back with you guys, thanks
Last edited by Leo_Koneval; 10-02-2009 at 12:00 AM.
10-02-2009, 01:16 PM
#5
ROFL!!!!ECT - engine coolant temp sensor
Some codes will not throw the CEL (like the KS for instance) so it's a good idea to see if there are any 'ghost' codes. If you took your car to a shop, and they replaced the wrong parts, you should make them eat it! You shouldn't have to pay for them replacing perfectly good parts - since it didn't fix the problem. Also, with the fule pump, if it goes bad - there's no pressure in the fule line / rail so ... a simple vacuum test could have dismissed that as a potential 'problem'. I would sugesst you find another shop ... or better yet, DIY!!!!
10-02-2009, 01:16 PM
#6
Tell me about it 
But I checked the codes and the only one I am throwing is
But it seems like the CEL and my starting problem is not related, so next up is replacing that starter.
I just want to know how positive you guys are its the starter based on my symptoms because I am giving it to a mechanic to work on (I know I am going to get my wallet raped) but my FPU won't let me touch the car.
But I checked the codes and the only one I am throwing is
But it seems like the CEL and my starting problem is not related, so next up is replacing that starter.
I just want to know how positive you guys are its the starter based on my symptoms because I am giving it to a mechanic to work on (I know I am going to get my wallet raped) but my FPU won't let me touch the car.
10-02-2009, 08:40 PM
#8
So now there is another symptom, today when I tried to start it again, it cranks but all of a sudden it turned over extremely slow like 2 really slow cranks and then back to normal, so it went (chuga..chuga..chuga..chuuuuga...............chuuu uuga...........chuga..chuga..chuga..vroom!)
Thankyou guys, I am positive its the starter and possibly ignition switch at the same time.
And guys I would love for a chance to change the starter myself except, my parental unit says its better to have someone trained do it than me just fixing and praying
Thankyou guys, I am positive its the starter and possibly ignition switch at the same time.
And guys I would love for a chance to change the starter myself except, my parental unit says its better to have someone trained do it than me just fixing and praying
10-02-2009, 10:11 PM
#10
Tell me about it
But I checked the codes and the only one I am throwing is
But it seems like the CEL and my starting problem is not related, so next up is replacing that starter.
I just want to know how positive you guys are its the starter based on my symptoms because I am giving it to a mechanic to work on (I know I am going to get my wallet raped) but my FPU won't let me touch the car.
But I checked the codes and the only one I am throwing is
But it seems like the CEL and my starting problem is not related, so next up is replacing that starter.
I just want to know how positive you guys are its the starter based on my symptoms because I am giving it to a mechanic to work on (I know I am going to get my wallet raped) but my FPU won't let me touch the car.
As long as she is paying for it, what's the problem? LOLI'd still say starter, it's not dead yet, but on it's way.
10-03-2009, 08:42 AM
#13
There's plenty of people in Seattle with more Maxima repair experience than a random fuel pump replacing mechanic.
And if you need more, I was a tow truck driver and shop supervisor for a major towing company in North Dakota for 6+ years before I decided to sit behind a desk in Seattle. I've built trucks that could tow your car...
And if you need more, I was a tow truck driver and shop supervisor for a major towing company in North Dakota for 6+ years before I decided to sit behind a desk in Seattle. I've built trucks that could tow your car...
10-03-2009, 12:16 PM
#14
Very nice thankyou, if my starter completely dies, I'll give you a call And you tow fellow .Org members for free right
Its so cool, I didn't know there were so many .Org members in Washington, I mean the only .Org member I had ever met was Cooper_Hedder.
And you tow fellow .Org members for free right Its so cool, I didn't know there were so many .Org members in Washington, I mean the only .Org member I had ever met was Cooper_Hedder.
10-03-2009, 06:57 PM
#16
semi-related.
ive changed my starter already with a used one off of a 96
my 97 mt starter had 11teeth,
my 96 has 9.
i dont know if that has anything to do with anything.
before i changed my starter i had terrible starts. im pretty sure half of the problem remaining is my ignition switch.
but when i start my car every so often, i get a sound like a small chain being dragged inside my engine. is that like what you have leo?
ive changed my starter already with a used one off of a 96
my 97 mt starter had 11teeth,
my 96 has 9.
i dont know if that has anything to do with anything.
before i changed my starter i had terrible starts. im pretty sure half of the problem remaining is my ignition switch.
but when i start my car every so often, i get a sound like a small chain being dragged inside my engine. is that like what you have leo?
10-03-2009, 08:02 PM
#17
tell that guy to call me.
10-03-2009, 08:03 PM
#18
semi-related.
ive changed my starter already with a used one off of a 96
my 97 mt starter had 11teeth,
my 96 has 9.
i dont know if that has anything to do with anything.
before i changed my starter i had terrible starts. im pretty sure half of the problem remaining is my ignition switch.
but when i start my car every so often, i get a sound like a small chain being dragged inside my engine. is that like what you have leo?
ive changed my starter already with a used one off of a 96
my 97 mt starter had 11teeth,
my 96 has 9.
i dont know if that has anything to do with anything.
before i changed my starter i had terrible starts. im pretty sure half of the problem remaining is my ignition switch.
but when i start my car every so often, i get a sound like a small chain being dragged inside my engine. is that like what you have leo?
Yeah its kind of hard to describe, but the simplest way to describe it is that it sounds like the sound your car makes when you turn the key to START again after the car is already running
And cranks are starting to get really uneven like it cranks normal then slows down a ton, then speeds back up and before it fires it makes the sound.
10-04-2009, 04:56 PM
#19
well thats not my problem, and i really don't want to start ANOTHER starting thread on this forum though.
my ignition switch went out today, so i jumped my starter, and the "chain noise" or maybe like my flywheel whirling against something was much longer than usual this time. almost 20 seconds.
is it ok if i bum my problem on this thread also leo? or should i make my own?
ill delete my 2 post if you want.
my ignition switch went out today, so i jumped my starter, and the "chain noise" or maybe like my flywheel whirling against something was much longer than usual this time. almost 20 seconds.
is it ok if i bum my problem on this thread also leo? or should i make my own?
ill delete my 2 post if you want.
10-04-2009, 05:41 PM
#20
You should search .... sounds like a TC tensioner issue to me. It will get worse with cold weather. See if you can have someone start the car for you, while you listen under the hood. Listen toward the front of the engine (pass side) and see if you notice the noise louder or not. You can even put your hand on the timing chain cover and feel a loose chain sometimes. It will make the crunch sound simmilar to a starter issue, but oppisite side.
10-24-2009, 08:44 PM
#21
THankyou all you guys! As it turns out it was the starter the whole time. I wanted to try a cheap approach to my problem before I spend $100 on a starter that from what I have been reading sometimes fail right out the box.
And so today I took my starter apart and cleaned everything in every part and drowned the gears in grease. The dirtiest parts were the magnets and the little silver plates it goes around and I used complressed air to blow everything out and then greased everything that had grease on it and. It has been crank after crank of testings and no metal scraping sound! I didn't see any grease on the gear that went on the fly wheel and so I wasn't sure about it but I lightly greased the gear the went on the fly wheel anyway just in case.
And so today I took my starter apart and cleaned everything in every part and drowned the gears in grease. The dirtiest parts were the magnets and the little silver plates it goes around and I used complressed air to blow everything out and then greased everything that had grease on it and. It has been crank after crank of testings and no metal scraping sound! I didn't see any grease on the gear that went on the fly wheel and so I wasn't sure about it but I lightly greased the gear the went on the fly wheel anyway just in case.
10-24-2009, 09:41 PM
#22
Well I'm not all that surprised. You can probably buy a rebuild kit which includes brushes if you want to go cheap.
Last edited by Nopike; 10-24-2009 at 09:45 PM.
10-24-2009, 09:52 PM
#23
Is it possible to grease it up too much? I mean now it disengages the flywheel like a dream, but I can hear the starter spin after the car has started for like a second or two.
I mean it sounds kind of like a turbo without the PSSSSSHHH sound.
I mean it sounds kind of like a turbo without the PSSSSSHHH sound.
10-24-2009, 10:19 PM
#24
That sounds pretty Sounds normal to me
If my starter fails im going to do exactly what you did !
10-24-2009, 11:46 PM
#25
But yeah thats funny, because everytime I crank my car it sounds like a turbo is spinning in the car but only for like 2 seconds. But I am starting to really like the sound
I hope its not the sound of a problem hahaha
10-26-2009, 02:33 AM
#26
Nice job .... glad you got it fixed. That sound is probably because now the bearings can actually spin (with the lube) and the gears are throwing that grease all over while they are in motion. Nothing to worry about I'd say. 
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