MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

Cost, if you DIY...

Manifold from "euro" maxima? Unknown!!!!
Internationsl shipping and fees EST ~$150.00
Telephone calls to Baharain to find one $$$
rpm switch ~$50
cheep-o manual rocker full throttle switch ~$10
-OR- TPS electronic full throttle switch ~$100
gaskets, vacume hose, contingency funds etc ~$100

So any where from ~$410 up

NZ Max

Hi. for all the people who don't know me, Im from New Zealand.

The cars in New Zealand generally suck for power compared to most other countries. We have no emmissions laws, hence New Zealand assembled cars dont have catalytic converters etc.

When I refer to my car being JDM spec, this means Japanese Domestic Market. Japan has very strict emmisions laws and they have some sort of regulation that their engines have to pass at a certain km. This is so hard that most Japanese sell their cars and get a new one simply because they don't care about cars over there and they are so cheap. This means that they export them. We can get high preformance (as well as regular daily driver cars) such as GTR Skylines, GTIR Pulsars, Subaru WRX's, Mitsubishi Evo's, 300 ZX's and Cefiros (can' leave them out)for very cheap.

So when People say New Zealand cars have the variable intake - they don't Im sorry if people have the wrong idea. BUT - 50% of the cars on our roads are from Japan.

The variable intake gives high end boost. It opens about 5000rpm and stays open until rpm limit. I have an auto and it is especially noticible in 2nd gear how it pulls. 1st is noticible but its that quick that it is hard to really tell. 3rd is also noticible but since gearing in the auto is so high, I hit the speed limit before 3rd gear runs out.

The Variable peice on the manifold is opened by a (I dont know what to call it) vacumn operated switch?. It is the same sort of setup that is on the 3rd gen VG motor intake.

I think that rigging up a switch for it would be the easiest part.

Anyway I have bleated on and on about this in atleast 3 other threads. I got so frustrated when nobody really took notice and just sort of brushed it off as "Its the Guy from NZ, who cares"

But that aside, I don't bear grudges. If anybody wants to import one, I will do the organising on this end. I am sure that I can find at least 1 manifold somewhere at a parts place. I was just at a wreckers place yesterday looking for a stock strut setup so there has been at least 1 cefiro wrecked. I don't know how much it would cost but I think it may be $600 - $700 NZD for the manifold.

Anyway. If you guys have any questions at all, feel free to ask.

Cheers

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

Yup. Ever since I've had my CAI, that's where I've noticed my VQ was somewhat lacking. Top of 3rd gear, winding out 4th, and going for top speed in 5th. It still goes, just not as enthusiastically. Got to give it to Nissan, though. With the stock intake, that short-coming was not as noticeable.

DW

Keven97SE

Thanks for bearing with us...I think it just took awhile for the idea to sink to us guys in the US here...that Nissan actually has a factory variable intake manifold for the 4th gen.

Since you offered , do you have any close up pictures of your engine bay. I'm primarily interested in the driver's side part of the intake manifold where the vacuum-operated actuator for the manifold butterfly valves is located. Also, do you have a factory service manual? I'm interested in the ECU wiring. There should be a "map" of the ECU connector that labels all the pins. I'm wondering if our US Maxima ECUs already have the signal pin for the intake solenoid (the one that opens at 5000 rpm to allow vacuum to reach the manifold actuator that opens the butterfly valves). If so, we might even have the same wiring harness and even have the solenoid connector capped off in the engine bay somewhere. Wouldn't that be neat...I'm probably dreaming, though.

Thanks for any help you can give...and thanks for bringing all this to our attention, too!

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

Uh . . his driver side would be your passenger side Probably better to say the intake side or the belts side of the engine.

DW

NZ Max

I haven't got a camera or anything to get a pic on to my computer. You post almost makes me want to get one and use it then take it back and say it doesn't do what I thought it would. In fact I will just do that. The pics wont be of great quality but I guess theyll do.

I have a service manual, but since haynes only made them for US cars, my ecu map will be the same as you.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

You could also just use a cheap throw-away camera. But when you get it developed, ask them to put it on a disc. Then you can email them to someone or load them onto maxima.org or upload them to a free site.

Not the best quality but I've done it in the past. Just take care in taking the intial pics the best you can.

You know it would be cool if you could get a pic w/ the top of the manifold unbolted. I'm dying to see what's in there!.

NZ Max

Digital camera - refundable
elcheapo - non refundable.

Ill go and get a camera. There will be pics here tonight. Somebody please recommend a free site that I can put these pics or if someone will host them maybe??

I will be back in 7 hours.

Nick Robinson

just upload them right to the org (click attach on your new post ) (Im just whoring here so i get the email notification, hehe)

SLC I30t

iTrader: (1)

Ok so the price just went from approximately 450-to close to 1000.
I have family who work in the international shipping scene, I might be able to look at how to work with customs, do the paperwork so we don't have to pay all the import tarrifs. But I think that talking to elderbock is still a good idea, especially with the info that you all have.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

Why talk to Edelbrock about a custom one when there are a million FACTORY ones sitting in junkyards waiting to be resurrected?

JDM4LIFE

iTrader: (2)

actually, edelbrock does make import parts. jg engine dynamics is own and part of edelbrock, which makes quite a few import parts actually. kenny tran's drag car, if i'm not mistaken, is sponsored by them. nonetheless, i will agree that getting them to make a variable runner intake manifold similar to the 5th gen is gonna happen about as soon as we get all the other stuff we wish we had. there's definitely a few things that could be changed to our manifolds to increase numbers. i also thought of doing something "simple" such as bolting on the intake manifold from a 5th gen. After one look at Green_2's manifold, i just shook my head. a lot of the parts on it look to have a different bolt pattern, making it extra difficult to "modify" it to fit. one thing to think about is maybe a throttle body. it's no intake manifold, but it's worth a shot. if i remember correctly, it's either the sentra or the altima guys that i saw bolting the Q45 TB onto their car. with that in mind, wouldn't it seem somewhat possible for it to work on ours? it's simple, and you know there's just as many of those sittin around junkyards and such as good condition intake manifolds, eh? not to mention, it'd be a lot easier to get a place to bore it out, polish it, and such, right? that's what i think at least...

Dave B

A TB will do little for our cars. The stock unit is plenty big. The only way to make more power is to extend the useable rpms past 5800. HP is related to rpm. More airflow thru the TB won't do any good because we still have the problem of the extra long intake runners that don't flow well on the topend. The gains of the variable intake manifold is that short runners are used after 5000.

Edelbrok could make a intake manifold, but I doubt they would make a variable intake simply because of the cost and engineering. If anything, they would just cast a intake manifold with shorter runners. Here's an idea. Take a stock US-spec intake manifold and remove about 2"-3" from the intake runners. What will happen is you'll get more topend, but less lowend power.


Dave

philpoe

iTrader: (4)

I think that we learned from the NZ headers that NZD are a fraction of USD. Somewhere in the 2-3 NZD per USD range

Keven97SE

TOL.

gibsot

If we are looking to get, more information on the viability of this project and get a group deal going you can count on me.

CoOlKidS1979

Is there any news on the variable intake? Has anyone tryeed to find one to import?

buss95max

.

Keven97SE

Well, I did a little bit of "research". I took a picture of the euro/JDM/mideast variable intake manifold and compared with my intake. EVERYTHING lines up with the hardware on our car. It looks like the euro manifold will bolt right up. The only thing missing on the euro manifold are the two bosses for the canister purge volume control valve that bolt to the rear of the manifold near the throttle body, but you can easily come up with some simple solution for mounting that.

I also found a suspicious unused connector near where the euro manifold valve would go. I suspect that Nissan used the same wiring harness for all Maximas and simply plugged the unused connectors. In other words, the signal for the manifold is there, just the hardware (intake manifold) is lacking.

So now the question is, where in the world could I get my hands on one of these intake manifolds. Does anybody have any suggestions???

CoOlKidS1979

I have looked lots and found nothing, even if I couldnt find one at a junk yard, if someone could just tell me where I could buy a new one. Maybe if i could contact a Nissan dealer in Japan and buy from them, also can someone post exactly what countries had the variable intake.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

OK. We can start with Bahrain in the middle east and New Zealand

DW

Keven97SE

Here's a pic of the US 4th gen intake manifold along with the euro/mideast manifold. There are no substanital differences. The 2 studs at the back hold the canister purge volume control valve and the boss near the throttle body is for a bracket. Minor differences that you can easily find a solution for. In general, though, it looks like the euro manifold will bolt right up.

US manifold:
http://vcx.freeservers.com/cgi-bin/i..._im_indoor.jpg
Euro/mideast manifold:
http://www.sx7r.com/roadbeast/Middel...t%20intake.JPG

CoOlKidS1979

Now all we have to do is get our hands one

philpoe

iTrader: (4)

If the NZ or Barhrain 4G gets 220HP, what would it do with intake, y-pipe, b-pipe + exhaust?

Are all 30HP coming from that intake? where else is the difference made?

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

They might have different cam profiles as well, to take advantage of the increased airflow. Who knows til we try it though. I think our friend NZ max offered his assistance in getting one to the states...

DaEnigma

All I have to say is good job on all the research. I hope this does come to see the light of day as I for one would love to get my hands on one.

guido_sst

I'd get a pic to compare that electrical connector to the one on the variable manifold, if they're the same, that's a big help. If it will just plug in, then we still have a bunch of questions with no answers:

Will our ECU support it?
What about the cams?
Is the rest of the head the same?
etc...

I would really love to have one of these, but it's a big chunk of change for something that may be a doorstop.

SuDZ

Any ideas on when?

SuDZ

lp

iTrader: (1)

My Australian FSM for the 3rd Gen shares its pages with the Europe and Gulf standard models. I guess its time to purchase the 4th Gen FSM.

But I have a strong feeling the path to 220hp will involve much more than just fitting an upper manifold.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

That's my worry as well. But just think of it, a 4th gen max with the variable intake manifold, y pipe, and CAI. I guess with the variable intake, the 5th gen muffler would be a more appreciable mod as well for the 4th gen. That thing would ROCK something cronic! It would even make 3.5 VQs a bit envious! The VQ 3.0 would still have 30 or so less hp, but it would weigh 200lbs less. Delicious.

DW

Keven97SE

I really don't think the differences between the Australian/Mideast/Europe 4th gens are all that substantial engine-wise.

The Australian/Mideast/Europe 4th gen is rated at 220 HP, basically the same as the 5th gen 222 HP. Compare the differences between the US 5th gen and 4th gen as well as the Australian/Mideast/Europe 4th gen and US 4th gen motors. Also look at what is known about the individual component changes on the 5th gen to get an idea of how much they affected the HP increase over the 4th gen.

What are the changes between the 5th gen and 4th gen? Variable intake manifold, slightly different cams, a reworked intake filter box, a different muffler, and twin fuel pressure regulators. The ECU is different but those changes were to support the new catalytic converter setup and other changes, not power tweaks. Those changes gave 222 HP over the 4th gen's 190.

Let's address the 5th gen changes piece-wise: Different cams? The specs show the new cams actually run less duration that the 4th gen's (couple of degree duration less) and slightly more lift (like 0.02"). The changes are very minor and I seriously doubt they give any substantial power boost. Filter box? The Australian/Mideast/Europe 4th gens use the same box as the US judging by the pictures, and that motor was rated at 220 HP, essentially the same as the 5th gen. That implies that the 5th gen box does not increase power. Muffler? People have installed and tested the 5th gen muffler and the general consensus is that it gives no substantial power gains (couple HP).

Now come the two changes that may well have added the bulk of the power on the 5th gens: Intake manifold and fuel regulators. The 5th gens use two fuel regulators, one on the end of each fuel rail, presumably to maintain more constant fuel pressure. This could aid a higher-HP engine due to the higher fuel flow requirements and hence more chance to lose fuel pressure. However, looking at the pictures for Roadbeast's engine, the Australian/Mideast/Europe 4th gens have the SAME fuel setup as the US 4th gens, that is only one regulator is used. One can then deduce that the 4th gen fuel rail/single regulator setup is good enough for the variable intake manifold. Perhaps an upgraded fuel pump would be a wise idea, though, just to ensure contant fuel pressure with the higher fuel flow requirements of the higher HP. The Australian/Mideast/Europe 4th gens may in fact even have an upgraded fuel pump, I just don't know.

That leaves one change on both the 5th gens and Australian/Mideast/Europe 4th gens that is responsible for the bulk of the ~30 HP power increase: the variable volume intake manifold.

I am very confident that this manifold would allow a 4th gen motor to have similar power potential, if not more, as a 5th gen motor. I've seen 204 HP dynos on 5th gens. My 4th gen dyno'd 191 HP. I am quite sure that the new intake manifold would give at LEASE a 13 HP gain, likely more like a 20 HP gain at the wheels IF I also upgrade my fuel pump.

It should be noted that the variable intake manifold would give NO increase in peak torque since, by design, it only activates at higher rpms where torque would otherwise begin to fall off. It simply a device that lengthens the torque curve, thereby increase peak HP.

That'd put my car at 210 HP at the wheels. That's 250 at the motor. That's my guess anyway.

DaEnigma

Ok ok enough talk lets get this done...

BluFlame

iTrader: (2)

My guess is that, mideast max dont have cat, hence no emmision controls like evap.& egr etc, meaning engine running richer. Variable intake alone will not give much gain, you would need an ecu at the least and discard rear O2 sensor, may be many more sensors.

SuDZ

So it seems to get the variable intake your looking at around 600 dollars? Waht else would you need to do to it to put it on?

SuDZ

CoOlKidS1979

Email me audia4quatrro@aol.com

SuDZ

You did not happen to get your name from the band did you? Just curious if you did if it is the "Cool Kids" From Lowell Ma?

SuDZ

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

That's not correct. When you floor your car, your ECU goes into open loop mode. Open loop mode is a hard wired program, it doesn't have anything to do with any O2 sensors. In open loop mode your fuel pressure is at its maximum, and your car gets as much fuel as is possible given its current fuel setup. O2 sensors don't make ANY difference at WOT.

By the way, to get power up top you want to lean the mixture out a bit, that is to say you want LESS fuel per amount of air. This gets dangerous however because if you lean it out TOO much, you start blowing engines. The JWT and G-Force ECUs both lean the mixture out at higher RPM to yeild more power. They don't do it enough to blow the engine though. Its a fine line to be walking.

SuDZ

Not too mention dangerous and costly.

SuDZ

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

Kev, you can rule this one out I think. If you look at a 5g FSM's diagram that shows these components one of the regulators is listed as a "dampner". I believe it is their to smooth out the pulses from the fuel pump.

guido_sst

I was thinking more along the lines of the Smashing Pumpkins myself...