madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

I have an issue where my car only stalls when it's cold and only in drive at stop. When I warm it up before it drive it doesn't stall. When it stalls it feels like a manual car stalling when you don't press the clutch in when you stop. Sometime the RPM's drop way down when it wants to stall and it catches itself. As soon as I put it in neutral it prevents the stall.

Just got back from the stealership, I'm mean dealership. They did a full engine scan and their conclusion is the stalling when the car is cold is due to my fuel injectors running very lean. Here is what the sheet says from the local Nissan dealership:

Perform scan test engine is running very lean from alpha readings that are above 110%. Bank 1 and bank 2 are more than 10% difference, cause ecm control lag, the injectors from age are not flowing or controlling very well. Replacement of injectors 5.0 labor. May get worse over time can try some cleaner additives but electronically they're slow ( I don't know what he meant by that?) Also replacement will increase horse power but fuel economy may with full flow potential. IVE increase base idle set to help compensate lean idling condition"

Here is the scan output that they showed me, they let me keep it when I asked.


My question is, is it possible for my clogged and leaned running injectors cause my stalling problems when the engine is cold or is this BS? I was leaning towards a bad torque converter from the research I've done and the feedback I've gotten. I'd hate to spend money to have the injectors replaced and still have the car stall when cold.

The mechanic I spoke with seemed to be very knowledgeable. He was an older guy and I've worked with him before. He said it's definitely not anything to do with my transmission. The diagnostics cost me $94.00 I think it was worth it. They said new injectors would be about $600 and about $500 more to install them.

I took his advice to just throw injector cleaner in it. I went to Costco and picked up a 6 pack of Chevron injector cleaner for $15.99 and put a couple in also topped off my gas. I also asked about the fuel filter and he said it wouldn't make a difference. Maybe that shuddering I was feeling at time was do the the engine starving for fuel.

Here is what I've done so far:

Remedies I tried:

Cleaned IACV including the sensor with 2 screws holding it into the IACV
Cleaned TB really well
Cleaned clogged EGR Tube (was throwing a code)
Cleaned MAF and even tried second one
Replaced ECTS (Engine coolant temperature sensor)
Used new OEM gaskets for all above
Replaced spark plugs with platinum OEM NGK's they were over 100K old.
Checked all coil packs (passed)
Replaced TPS
Air Filter is clean
Checked for any loose, cracked or detached hoses.
Starter is only a few months old, replaced by Nissan with a Nissan rebuilt one. The aftermarket was junk.
Oil only has 2K
Transmission fluid is about 30K and very clean and topped off, car is mainly driven hwy.
Knock sensor is about 5 months old OEM Nissan

Current symptoms:

I tested my cold stalling only hypothesis again this morning. I didn't warm up the car and I started driving it 1 minute after I started it. It immediately wanted to stall at the first stop. I saved the stall once again by putting it into neutral. Then again at the next stop. I drove for about 2 minutes and the temperature started to rise. It was pretty cold this morning in WI, we just had some snow fall. After two minutes the car was already throwing good heat. I could see the temperature gauge slowing starting to rise and after to miles of driving @ 25-30 MPH the car was warm and by the third light it did not stall and ran perfectly after that.

Only stalls when the car is cold.

Don't know what to do or think now very confused and discouraged...

93SCMax

iTrader: (3)

I don't think you are clear on the conditions of the stalling.

Does it stall after the engine has warmed-up and the water temp gauge normal?

madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

I have an issue where my car only stalls when it's cold and only in drive at stop. When I warm it up before I drive it, it doesn't stall. When it stalls it feels like a manual car stalling when you don't press the clutch in when you stop. Sometime the RPM's drop way down when it wants to stall and it catches itself and sometime it stalls. As soon as I put it in neutral it prevents the stall.

It stops stalling after about 5 minutes of idle warm up or 2-3 minutes of driving when temperature gauge starts to rise a bit.

smai555

where in Wi are you from?

madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

I'm from the Madison area. Just curious? Are you from around here?

MOHFpro90

iTrader: (11)

Clean the IACV.

Other than that, yes, its possible that bad injectors could cause that.

madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

I know my post is long but it says I already did that. I noticed new OEM injectors cost a fortune. What are your thoughts on purchasing remanufactured ones? If remanufactured are good, where's a good place to buy them? Also, are there only two O rings that need to be replaced for replacement injectors?

Thanks!

mahanddeem

+1 for the IACV.....

madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

Please read my original post and the one above. I already thoroughly cleaned the IACV...

MOHFpro90

iTrader: (11)

Sorry, I read part of it, and skimmed it. Must've missed it. I would pull an injector, and turn it upside down and have someone start the car. Itll give you an idea of the spray pattern and exactly whats the problem. It could be a bad FPR as well.

FallenOne

iTrader: (17)

Wow, 1100 for injectors? No thanks, 2 hours at most and 65$ from a member on here.. iirc Pmohr is looking to sell a set.

93SCMax

iTrader: (3)

I'm still struggling with it being an injector if it only does it when cold. If it also stalled when warm, then an injector may be the culprit.

Stalling at start-up could also be a dirty crank position sensor. Stalling when cold after driving seems more like the IACV or an air leak on one of the hoses.

I'd continue with injector cleaner, use 93 octane fuel, and even change the fuel filter if it hasn't been done recently. Pulling injectors can be a PITA.

smai555

milwaukee but my car is registered in dane county

madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

smai555,

Let me guess you have it register in Dane so you don't have to deal with emissions test in Milwaukee. I believe they have emissions testing in Milwaukee.


93SCMax,

I too have a trouble believe it's the injectors cause the stalling when cold only when in drive at a stop. I believe the injector(s) maybe going bad, which might be causing the misfire like feeling when driving at times but stalling I'm not convinced quite yet. My gut tells me it's something related to the physical drive train i.e. tranny, solenoid, or from recent research dirty crank position sensor. I'm not familiar with the crank position sensor so I need to do more research.

I did clean the IACV a few weeks ago. I did it thoroughly. I also used a new gasket. I've check for loose or cracked hoses several times. I have not done a vacuum test though.

I'm going to resistance test my injectors in 5 minutes and also change my fuel filter. I'll let you know what I turn up.

smai555

yes that is correct i had a CEL i couldnt get rid of so i just registered it in dane

the crank sensor is easy to clean and test one 10mm bolt and it slides out (the front one) and i dont rememeber the test for it but there is a FSM you can download floating around on this site

madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

smai55,

I knew it! Ha, ha. When you said you live in Milwaukee but you have it registered in Dane. I completely understand man. You know why there isn't an emissions test in Dane county and Madison right? Half the damn liberals would be walking the streets or riding their bikes because their cars would never pass! They're the ones driving the crappy cars that make you nauseous when you get stuck behind them. On the other hand, they're the ones advocating clean air, clean water etc. Go figure? I digress. I'm just ranting.

Back on the subject, I just got in from changing my fuel filter. All I can say is, what a b!tch! I read more than my share of how-to's on the forum and got all the tools ready but it was definitely a knuckle scratcher. I did the usual depressurization and first loosened the top hose and it was stuck good. I took the advice on the forum and started my car a few more times just in case there was still pressure in the fuel lines. I was getting nowhere and getting really irritated. I twisted and pull but barely moved the hose maybe 1/8 of an inch.

My car has ABS so there's more crap in the way, which doesn't help. I finally broke down and took the air box off. I should have done that right away. I was then able to get both hands on the filter and start twisting back and forth until it came off. The bottom was done pretty much the same way, much easier. I took the advice of another forum member and sprayed a little WD40 on the nibs and the hoses slid on like a greased pig. I made sure I pushed the hoses all the way in until they touched the filter. I positioned the clamps so they faced out so next time the screws are much easier to get at, after than is was just clamping them down tight but not too tight so the hoses don't get crushed. Had had rubber gloves on and even then I got small little cut all over my knuckles and arms and a nice bruise on my wrist.

Here's the kicker, I inspected my old filter that I had just removed and it definitely looks like the original. You should have seen the crud coming out of it. It looked like muddy water! and not just on the inlet side, the output side that goes into the engine was just has dirty. It was dirty brown, that filter must have been so filled with debris. I wonder if it was restricting fuel flow? I would have blown on it to check the flow but I wasn't about to get the taste of gas in mouth.

I put everything back and it crank right up on the second ignition attempt. I don't know if it's just in my head but the car seems smoother like it's getting more fuel. I took it on the highway for some high speed runs. I wanted to get that dirty fuel through the rails and start feeding clean fuel to the injectors. It will be interesting to see what happens when I start the car and try to drive it cold tomorrow.

I also spend about 30 minutes spaying out with electrical cleaner and putting clear electrical grease on all the electrical contacts. I did the male end of the connectors (non-wire harness side with metal prongs). I really took my time on the MAF and all IACV connectors.

I also test my 3 front injectors they're all within spec. L to R they were 12.3, 12.2, and 12.2 ohms. I did the screw driver test to listen to them and they all had the rhythmic bap-bap-bap sound. At this point I'm only convinced that the injectors might be 50% of my problem of cold stalling only when in drive at a stop. I'm still not throwing any codes. It's weird as soon as I put the car into drive when it's cold and the moment the tranny engages that's when it wants to stall. As-soon-as I disengage to neutral or park it immediately stops trying to stall and runs smooth as butter.

Is the crank positions sensor something that goes out often? If it's not expensive and easy to replace I might just change it out to see if it could be the cause.

I'll keep you guys posted. Thanks for hanging in there in my saga to vanquish this damn stalling.

madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

Started my car and started to drive before it warmed up. Came to the first light and it tried to stall. It wasn't quite as bad though. It only did it quickly and I let it catch itself to see if it would stall and it didn't. It wasn't quite as cold this morning so it's probably why it wasn't as bad.

The more I think about it, I don't believe it's the injectors causing the cold stalling, which only happens in drive at a stop. Do you guys think the IACV could be at fault? I've cleaned it really well already. I thought it only affects the engine at idle and not in drive or is stopped but in drive considered idling?

It so saddening because the max seems to be running so smooth right now with all the cleaning and parts changes I've done, all but the damn cold stalling. At this point I agree that I should just keep running the cleaner through it and not replace any injectors. I'd hate to spend the money and find out it's not it.

I did cold check the front injectors and they were pretty much 10.3 ohms on the dot. I'm going to research the possibility of the crank position sensor next...

The saga continues!

smai555

i didint know that about emmissions in dane

you know there is a valve for cold starts its on the bottom side of the TB coolent flows though it ..... when the coolent is cold the valve opens to let more air in and when warm it closes (or vice versa) ... i know i had to adjust mine a few months ago

there is a stop screw on the top of the TB.... follow the arms down and i think youll see how it works
when hot i think the arm should be at the stop screw when cold i think theres a couple mm gap

cashoit

+1

yeah man...raise you idle. Its almost as if when comin to a stop the IACV is sticking a lil bit. Prolly should jus replace it. If the car not misfiing at all, and only stalling when cold then maybe the injectors arent the problem. Maybe the IACV is jus faulty

madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

Good points guys! Right now idle adjust is raised a little on the IACV, the tech at Nissan did it to compensate for the stalling. From what you guys said the screw is on the TB not the IACV that you guys are talking about right?

Cash, is it possible to replace just little sensor on the IACV? or should I just but a used one on the org and give it a shot? The idle adjustment work perfectly on the IACV but that doesn't mean it's not bad right?

cashoit

Yo man lol i go new all the way no matter what. Anything involved with a fix i want new if it is remotely bad.

im not really sure how the IACV work. Would have to read the FSM. Might jus be the sensor that tells the IACV to open and not the IACV itself. But it might come aas an entire assembly.

madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

The whole IACV assembly is several hundred dollars new. What to do, what to do...

cashoit

190 bucks form autozone. go get a second opinion from another mechanic bro before u spend more. Or jus hit the JY. THe IACV dont malfunction often. Injectors mess up more often

smai555

yea im not talking about the IACV unit

this is what im talking about


the adjustment screw is the lower circle the stop screw i was talking about is the upper circle DONT TOUCH THIS ONE

so when the car is hot the stop screw is "stopped" when cold its a couple mm backed off

cashoit

Ok thats diff...u talkin bout adjusting the throttle position so that it doesnt close all the way.

madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

No I wasn't talking about the TPS, I was referring to the IACV adjustment screw. The mechanic turned counter clockwise a little to make it idle a little higher thinking it would stop the stall but it doesn't.

So I should make sure that there is a gap in the stop screw at the bottom when it's cold right?

Cashoit,

I could take it to another dealer and have it looked at but I'm not too confident they would be able to solve it. It would be pretty much the same as me buying new parts and changing them out, except I would have some new parts. Kind of like 6 in one half, one half dozen in the other.

I'm seriously just thinking about just dealing with the cold stalling since spring is coming soon and sell the car at the end of summer and use the money to buy a new one. But the other half wants to figure this out. I'm keep jumping between fuel and transmission related.

The thing that really baffles me is why does it only stall in drive and not in idle or neutral when it's cold and only when coasting or stopped??? That's the million dollar questions!

cashoit

so basically the car stalls when the throttle is closed. SOunds like a faulty IACV to me.

madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

When you say throttle is close, it could apply to the car being in drive but full brake no gas correct. If you think it's IACV because throttle is closed when it stalls how come no stall in park or neutral ever?

Not doubting you just trying to understand.

cashoit

o ok...if no stall in park or nuetral and the idle not all over the place..then that points back to injectors.

When the last time u changed A/T fluid? someone else was having similar problems and it went away with a flush and somethin with oil pan too. Does the car slip in first?

cashoit

o ok...if no stall in park or nuetral and the idle not all over the place..then that points back to injectors.

When the last time u changed A/T fluid? someone else was having similar problems and it went away with a flush and somethin with oil pan too. Does the car slip in first gear?

cashoit

I jus re-read the original post. If u changed the tranny fluid, then the only thing left is injectors. My problem is that the car shd misfire if injectors are faulty. But its possible that the injectors are rusted and slow.

YO man, like smai sd....adjust the throttle per the HAynes. There is a locking nut on the accerator cable that u can adjust to make the car idle at like 800rpms. Its not the IACV adjusting screw. Basically u want to shorten the accerator cable at the throttle body such that the throttle stays cracked a lil bit.

If that helps keep the car from stallin then its the injectors. They jus not responding correctly.

madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

I do my tranny oil change every 30K and the car is driven mostly hwy. Right now it's going on 30K since the last tranny oil change. I run Red Line full synthetic exclusively since about 25K. I had the standard tranny oil flushed when I went to redline at 25K. The car shows no signs of slipping. Shifts are tight and precise!

I think I read the same post regarding the tranny oil. The car idles like new when in neutral and park. So are you ruling out the IACV now.

madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

I'll adjust the TB this weekend and see. Also what is the recommend tranny oil change interval for "normal" usage? The mechanic did say that it's not just the injector tips that are bad old injectors but that they are gummed up inside and that cleaners will have little to no effect.

You could be right maybe they're just too slow so to speak. It strange that I've not thrown any codes for them yet. I wonder if I should just try changing the front three with used ones from org to see what happens, it wouldn't cost much.

madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

Off topic but what does a PVC valve do and would it cause my problem? I'm just trying not to rule out anything.

Thanks man

cashoit

Try adjusting the throttle. Im surprised u didnt try that first. If the cars wants to stall out when the RPMs drop...then the solution is to keep the RPMs from dropping too far.

I think there is a sensor associated witht this closed throttle...its something else in EL section of the FSM. I cant remember. But if the dealer says its injectors..then try to adjust throttle and see how the car responds

madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

I'll check the EL section of the FSM. Also, I forgot to mention when it wants to stall if I blip the gas or push it down it prevents the stall. I fairly certain that if I adjust the cable like said to a high enough closed throttle RPM it will prevent a stall, it's essentially like keeping your foot on the throttle a little bit all the time no?

cashoit

its on page EC 309 and EC 314 of the FSM. But u have already replaced TPS (which is closed throttle postion switch).

madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

What do you think in regards to my last post of preventing the stall by holding down the accelerator. Does that mean it's fuel and injector? It could be air too no?

cashoit

Correct. You are basically simulating yur foot on the gas by adjusting the cable. Its two nuts on the cable that u turn in opposite directions to shorten the accel cable and crack open the TB.

But in all honesty, the injectors should have enough pressure so that u dont have to do this. It jus leads me tho think that they faulty or IACV-AAC valve.
Ur combustion is off, air or fuel hard to say which. Check resistance across IACV. But the dealer must have done this too. So its prolly the injecotrs man. Im jus pissed they didnt tell u which one. I guess right now they all jus sluggish after awhile they will jus fail.

Tonight i get to change my fuel filter in the cold...good times lol

madd_maxx

iTrader: (1)

I'd do it for you if you lived closer for helping me so much. But I'll be there in spirit cheering you on! Where do you live BTW?

So what would you do in my shoes? IACV $189 or Injector(s) at $80 a piece?

Decisions, decisions...