Audio Questions...
09-28-2010, 08:14 PM
#1
Audio Questions...
Ok, as I posted before, I got the 98 GLE. The car is SUPER nice, but has a couple of minor quirks - one of which is the Bose system. It sounds great for such an old, OEM system - however, that is WHEN it works. There is a problem in the OEM Bose headunit, and adjusting volume, hitting a bump, etc..., will cause audio to cut in and out. At first, I thought it was the speakers... then, today, while playing with it, I found that when the front speakers cut out, if I move the volume **** up and down a little, the audio begins to come back to the front...
Now, my plan to to simply replace the entire system...
I want to start from scratch, so I'll be getting a new headunit, of course. I already have a brand-new pair of MA-Audio 5.25" Coax speakers that a friend bought for his car, then sold the car first - and gave me the speakers - NIB.
I also have a LIGHLY used MTX 8" sub.
I am also planning on getting a pair of decent 6.5" components for the front doors. However, if the factory Bose tweeter would function with a different mid for the 6/5", I could just go that route for the fronts.
For the rear, I could use those MA-Audio speakers for rear fill, or buy another set of 6.5" coax/tri-ax speakers, and then make a small box for the 8" sub, for the basic low-end...
OR, for the rear, I could get a semi-decent set of 6x9 coax/tri-ax, and use those for the rear fill AND the low-end.
If I choose ANY of these, I'm also looking at driving it all through a small, modest 4-ch 400 watt amp, for cleaner sound.
If going the 6x9 route, they all are amped. If I use ANYTHING but the 6x9's, AND use the sub, then the front doors, and the sub will be amps, and I'll run the rear fill off of deck power...
Now, CAN 6x9's be installed in the rear desk, to start with?
Also, after SOME review, I believe our cars use ISO-DIN mounting, so the sleeve and a kit itself are not required - just a filler pocket to mount below the headunit, is that right?
Now, my plan to to simply replace the entire system...
I want to start from scratch, so I'll be getting a new headunit, of course. I already have a brand-new pair of MA-Audio 5.25" Coax speakers that a friend bought for his car, then sold the car first - and gave me the speakers - NIB.
I also have a LIGHLY used MTX 8" sub.
I am also planning on getting a pair of decent 6.5" components for the front doors. However, if the factory Bose tweeter would function with a different mid for the 6/5", I could just go that route for the fronts.
For the rear, I could use those MA-Audio speakers for rear fill, or buy another set of 6.5" coax/tri-ax speakers, and then make a small box for the 8" sub, for the basic low-end...
OR, for the rear, I could get a semi-decent set of 6x9 coax/tri-ax, and use those for the rear fill AND the low-end.
If I choose ANY of these, I'm also looking at driving it all through a small, modest 4-ch 400 watt amp, for cleaner sound.
If going the 6x9 route, they all are amped. If I use ANYTHING but the 6x9's, AND use the sub, then the front doors, and the sub will be amps, and I'll run the rear fill off of deck power...
Now, CAN 6x9's be installed in the rear desk, to start with?
Also, after SOME review, I believe our cars use ISO-DIN mounting, so the sleeve and a kit itself are not required - just a filler pocket to mount below the headunit, is that right?
09-28-2010, 08:42 PM
#2
Yes 6x9's can be mounted with a little cutting. But for the effort you'd be better off just getting some 6.5's to replace whats there.
And if youre installing a single DIN headunit all you would need is a filler pocket. I liked using an extra storage pocket like what the car came with.
And if youre installing a single DIN headunit all you would need is a filler pocket. I liked using an extra storage pocket like what the car came with.
09-28-2010, 09:23 PM
#3
Just use the 5.25's for rear fill...it's just rear fill no matter what you put back there, so why spend a lot of time/money on them? Using a 4 channel amp in tri mode is ideal for an inexpensive system that can sound very nice. In my '04 STi I had an Eclipse CD8443 deck, Diamond Audio s600s front components, STOCK rear 4" speakers, Eclipse 12" sub, and an Eclipse PA5422 85w x 4 channel amp. (back channels bridged @ 240W RMS) With some dynamat and tweaking (thanks to the awesome eq on the deck) this setup was awesome for sound quality. I spent about $600 on everything IIRC (dealer hookup) and it sounded like a $5000+ system! Moral of the story...choose your equipment wisely and a basic system can sound phenomenal.
You need to ask yourself what kind of music you will be listening to before buying anything. MP3's and iPods and great for convenience but aren't so hot for the best sound quality. If you want to use your iPod (like me) then just stick with a basic system. Some decent front components can be bought for around $60-120, and you can get a nice 4 channel amp for $100-200. For head units I recommend kenwood or pioneer with 4 volt rca outputs, usually their mid level decks on up have this.
You need to ask yourself what kind of music you will be listening to before buying anything. MP3's and iPods and great for convenience but aren't so hot for the best sound quality. If you want to use your iPod (like me) then just stick with a basic system. Some decent front components can be bought for around $60-120, and you can get a nice 4 channel amp for $100-200. For head units I recommend kenwood or pioneer with 4 volt rca outputs, usually their mid level decks on up have this.
09-29-2010, 06:31 AM
#4
Well, I ordered the new HU and speakers last night...
The HU is a Sony, and I know the concensus on them, but I've had OK luck with them in the past. Not looking for comp level audio, anyway.
The speakers I got are Fli Audio - I went ahead and matched them out - components for the front, and 6.5" coax's for the rear.
These same speakers I found locally for $200 a pair, and I got both pairs for $125... euro branded speakers... sounded excellent in the demo car the local shop had, on deck power...
I am aiming to find a decent little 4-channle amp now..
The HU is a Sony, and I know the concensus on them, but I've had OK luck with them in the past. Not looking for comp level audio, anyway.
The speakers I got are Fli Audio - I went ahead and matched them out - components for the front, and 6.5" coax's for the rear.
These same speakers I found locally for $200 a pair, and I got both pairs for $125... euro branded speakers... sounded excellent in the demo car the local shop had, on deck power...
I am aiming to find a decent little 4-channle amp now..
09-29-2010, 03:14 PM
#7
You have your opinion, and you're entitled to it...but I think you'll have a hard time finding many other brands that almost everything in their lineup in very good equipment. There are better speakers, subs, amps, etc...but consistency should count for something too. The only problem I have with JL is some of their stuff is overpriced. If you can get it for a good deal then it's hard to beat.
MaxWgn,
Sounds good man...good luck. If you are going to spend a little more on one item, do it on your amp. Next to the head unit it's the most important thing in the chain.
MaxWgn,
Sounds good man...good luck. If you are going to spend a little more on one item, do it on your amp. Next to the head unit it's the most important thing in the chain.
09-29-2010, 08:38 PM
#8
If your replacing the head unit and speakers than you might as well do it the right way and run all new speaker wire as well and use good quality RCA to your amp, wiring is not the place to cut costs.
Dynamat your rear deck as well since you are already back there, you won't regret the effort.
My only poor spot in my system is the Boston Acoustics front components that were in the car when I bought it, they suck to be honest, totally flat with no midrange.
I will be buying some JL Audio C3 components as soon as the price breaks, right now they are to new but they allow you to adjust multiple levels on your tweeter and the midrange to properly suit them to your soundstage.
I won't give you a hard time on the Sony, but there are many better quality head units on the market for the same money that will run your ipod and since the internal amp isn't needed when you are running an external amp you won't need to dump a ton of money into the top grade head unit since you just need it to run the stuff you need while producing a quality signal.
Dynamat your rear deck as well since you are already back there, you won't regret the effort.
My only poor spot in my system is the Boston Acoustics front components that were in the car when I bought it, they suck to be honest, totally flat with no midrange.
I will be buying some JL Audio C3 components as soon as the price breaks, right now they are to new but they allow you to adjust multiple levels on your tweeter and the midrange to properly suit them to your soundstage.
I won't give you a hard time on the Sony, but there are many better quality head units on the market for the same money that will run your ipod and since the internal amp isn't needed when you are running an external amp you won't need to dump a ton of money into the top grade head unit since you just need it to run the stuff you need while producing a quality signal.
09-29-2010, 08:52 PM
#9
You have your opinion, and you're entitled to it...but I think you'll have a hard time finding many other brands that almost everything in their lineup in very good equipment. There are better speakers, subs, amps, etc...but consistency should count for something too. The only problem I have with JL is some of their stuff is overpriced. If you can get it for a good deal then it's hard to beat.
09-29-2010, 09:08 PM
#10
If your replacing the head unit and speakers than you might as well do it the right way and run all new speaker wire as well and use good quality RCA to your amp, wiring is not the place to cut costs.
Dynamat your rear deck as well since you are already back there, you won't regret the effort.
My only poor spot in my system is the Boston Acoustics front components that were in the car when I bought it, they suck to be honest, totally flat with no midrange.
I will be buying some JL Audio C3 components as soon as the price breaks, right now they are to new but they allow you to adjust multiple levels on your tweeter and the midrange to properly suit them to your soundstage.
I won't give you a hard time on the Sony, but there are many better quality head units on the market for the same money that will run your ipod and since the internal amp isn't needed when you are running an external amp you won't need to dump a ton of money into the top grade head unit since you just need it to run the stuff you need while producing a quality signal.
Dynamat your rear deck as well since you are already back there, you won't regret the effort.
My only poor spot in my system is the Boston Acoustics front components that were in the car when I bought it, they suck to be honest, totally flat with no midrange.
I will be buying some JL Audio C3 components as soon as the price breaks, right now they are to new but they allow you to adjust multiple levels on your tweeter and the midrange to properly suit them to your soundstage.
I won't give you a hard time on the Sony, but there are many better quality head units on the market for the same money that will run your ipod and since the internal amp isn't needed when you are running an external amp you won't need to dump a ton of money into the top grade head unit since you just need it to run the stuff you need while producing a quality signal.
Reality: Unless we're talking about replacing faulty wire, which is a repair not an upgrade, then it's almost never worth running new speaker wire. Power wire for car audio is a low voltage DC signal, which needs thicker wire to carry enough current for aftermarket amplifiers. Speaker wire on the other hand is a low current AC signal, which doesn't need to be thicker than oem specs unless you are running really high power to the speakers. (>200watts) You increase the resistance of the circuit by keeping the wire gauge small but this is usually overcome by the generally high efficiency ratings of car speakers. So, unless your wiring is defective save your time and money for something else of greater importance...which leads me to:
Common car audio myth #2: Speaker brand A is better than speaker brand B
Reality: While there are some subtle differences in speakers (ie material, tibre characteristics, resilience, and power handling) most car audio speakers can reproduce all ranges that the human ear can perceive. Therefore, as long as your speaker is not damaged you can achieve better sound through tuning your existing equipment. Source material and flexibility of adjustments limit your sound quality, not equipment! Obviously if you want a bass heavy system you will need to add a woofer(s) to the equation. It was always fun trying to explain these things to some kid who wanted better sound and he was listening to crappy mp3s of pirated bootlegged compressed chopped and screwed remixes.
09-29-2010, 09:14 PM
#11
MB Quart USED to be a good company. They used to be German made high end stuff but they were bought by maxxsonics...and now they're just sold by name recognition like orion, a/d/s, precision power, etc. They make decent stuff but it's nothing like JL. You really get what you pay for in car audio. JL is an innovator in the field, they make the products that get copied by the lesser cash poor companies. They must spend a ton of money on R&D.
09-29-2010, 09:38 PM
#12
Ok, as I posted before, I got the 98 GLE. The car is SUPER nice, but has a couple of minor quirks - one of which is the Bose system. It sounds great for such an old, OEM system - however, that is WHEN it works. There is a problem in the OEM Bose headunit, and adjusting volume, hitting a bump, etc..., will cause audio to cut in and out. At first, I thought it was the speakers... then, today, while playing with it, I found that when the front speakers cut out, if I move the volume **** up and down a little, the audio begins to come back to the front...
Now, my plan to to simply replace the entire system...
I want to start from scratch, so I'll be getting a new headunit, of course. I already have a brand-new pair of MA-Audio 5.25" Coax speakers that a friend bought for his car, then sold the car first - and gave me the speakers - NIB.
I also have a LIGHLY used MTX 8" sub.
I am also planning on getting a pair of decent 6.5" components for the front doors. However, if the factory Bose tweeter would function with a different mid for the 6/5", I could just go that route for the fronts.
For the rear, I could use those MA-Audio speakers for rear fill, or buy another set of 6.5" coax/tri-ax speakers, and then make a small box for the 8" sub, for the basic low-end...
OR, for the rear, I could get a semi-decent set of 6x9 coax/tri-ax, and use those for the rear fill AND the low-end.
If I choose ANY of these, I'm also looking at driving it all through a small, modest 4-ch 400 watt amp, for cleaner sound.
If going the 6x9 route, they all are amped. If I use ANYTHING but the 6x9's, AND use the sub, then the front doors, and the sub will be amps, and I'll run the rear fill off of deck power...
Now, CAN 6x9's be installed in the rear desk, to start with?
Also, after SOME review, I believe our cars use ISO-DIN mounting, so the sleeve and a kit itself are not required - just a filler pocket to mount below the headunit, is that right?
Now, my plan to to simply replace the entire system...
I want to start from scratch, so I'll be getting a new headunit, of course. I already have a brand-new pair of MA-Audio 5.25" Coax speakers that a friend bought for his car, then sold the car first - and gave me the speakers - NIB.
I also have a LIGHLY used MTX 8" sub.
I am also planning on getting a pair of decent 6.5" components for the front doors. However, if the factory Bose tweeter would function with a different mid for the 6/5", I could just go that route for the fronts.
For the rear, I could use those MA-Audio speakers for rear fill, or buy another set of 6.5" coax/tri-ax speakers, and then make a small box for the 8" sub, for the basic low-end...
OR, for the rear, I could get a semi-decent set of 6x9 coax/tri-ax, and use those for the rear fill AND the low-end.
If I choose ANY of these, I'm also looking at driving it all through a small, modest 4-ch 400 watt amp, for cleaner sound.
If going the 6x9 route, they all are amped. If I use ANYTHING but the 6x9's, AND use the sub, then the front doors, and the sub will be amps, and I'll run the rear fill off of deck power...
Now, CAN 6x9's be installed in the rear desk, to start with?
Also, after SOME review, I believe our cars use ISO-DIN mounting, so the sleeve and a kit itself are not required - just a filler pocket to mount below the headunit, is that right?
6x9's? Yuck nasty shape. Keep them round. You wasted a perfectly good Bose system? Sad. should have gotten a double Din F series Pioneer Indash Navi from fleabay for 250$ and a SPLIT-3003 by Audiopipe for your pre outs to your Bose. MTX 8"? Eh... Keep in mind that 8" can be loud.. But that takes a intelligently designed box.
MB Quart USED to be a good company. They used to be German made high end stuff but they were bought by maxxsonics...and now they're just sold by name recognition like orion, a/d/s, precision power, etc. They make decent stuff but it's nothing like JL. You really get what you pay for in car audio. JL is an innovator in the field, they make the products that get copied by the lesser cash poor companies. They must spend a ton of money on R&D.
BTW.. JL FTW!
JK. F#$@ JL.
Honest, for the everyday driver who cant make out 90% of the Freq. due to their pounding subs Bose is great. If some of you heard my Stock Bose with my combo of the Audiopipe Line Driver and F Series Indash you'd **** yourselves and than be pissed you spent all that time and money ripping it out.
Last edited by FallenOne; 09-29-2010 at 09:45 PM.
09-30-2010, 12:23 AM
#13
i put all jl speakers and a 6450 amp in 3 years ago and its been really loud and clean, my only problem is i recently added a rockford fosgate ps2 sub and it hits alot harder then my old alpine did so i gotta rewire it again. ( amps overheating alot ) make sure w/e you put in that you match components that work well together or you will blow speakers out and constantly be adjusting settings on amp and h/u.
09-30-2010, 12:53 AM
#14
I have JL 10 inch too..frankly speaking if you buy JL, you wont be dissapointed ..at least you wont repent that why I dint buy Roclkford or Kicker..
if u had listened to all of them - its hard to determine the sound quality difference..if u hear them at the same time with the same setup - i am sure you will feel little difference..but should nt be far..
what my point is - sometimes we go by the brand and a good brand provides consistency years after years..so u wont be dissapointed..
if u had listened to all of them - its hard to determine the sound quality difference..if u hear them at the same time with the same setup - i am sure you will feel little difference..but should nt be far..
what my point is - sometimes we go by the brand and a good brand provides consistency years after years..so u wont be dissapointed..
09-30-2010, 08:23 AM
#15
MB Quart USED to be a good company. They used to be German made high end stuff but they were bought by maxxsonics...and now they're just sold by name recognition like orion, a/d/s, precision power, etc. They make decent stuff but it's nothing like JL. You really get what you pay for in car audio. JL is an innovator in the field, they make the products that get copied by the lesser cash poor companies. They must spend a ton of money on R&D.
09-30-2010, 09:54 AM
#16
Ok, well, here's the final roundup...
I got the Sony Headunit, as I did not need a lot of bells and whistles...
the Fli Audio comp's and coax's (bought both pairs online for less than the comps were locally)
the single MTX 8" sub
and a used and working Kenwood KAC-6401 30watt rms X 4 bridgable amp.
I will be using 8 awg power and ground for the amp, 16 gauge speaker wire to replace the Bose wires, and am still looking for a single set of 4-channel, shielded, twisted-pair RCA's for noise rejection...
I am NOT looking for competition or audiofile level sounds here - just something within a decent budget... and with the exception of the great deal on the used amp that I got to hear work before purchase (was in use in car - college student sold to help buy his books, and removed from car upon cash exchange), I will have EVERYTHING new, and the entire system will have cost me about $350...
And one selling point on the amp was the fact that it had a summed set of pre-amp outs - so I could rerun that amp for the Fli's, and get a second sub amp without a major rework...
I got the Sony Headunit, as I did not need a lot of bells and whistles...
the Fli Audio comp's and coax's (bought both pairs online for less than the comps were locally)
the single MTX 8" sub
and a used and working Kenwood KAC-6401 30watt rms X 4 bridgable amp.
I will be using 8 awg power and ground for the amp, 16 gauge speaker wire to replace the Bose wires, and am still looking for a single set of 4-channel, shielded, twisted-pair RCA's for noise rejection...
I am NOT looking for competition or audiofile level sounds here - just something within a decent budget... and with the exception of the great deal on the used amp that I got to hear work before purchase (was in use in car - college student sold to help buy his books, and removed from car upon cash exchange), I will have EVERYTHING new, and the entire system will have cost me about $350...
And one selling point on the amp was the fact that it had a summed set of pre-amp outs - so I could rerun that amp for the Fli's, and get a second sub amp without a major rework...
09-30-2010, 04:00 PM
#17
Ok, well, here's the final roundup...
I got the Sony Headunit, as I did not need a lot of bells and whistles...
the Fli Audio comp's and coax's (bought both pairs online for less than the comps were locally)
the single MTX 8" sub
and a used and working Kenwood KAC-6401 30watt rms X 4 bridgable amp.
I will be using 8 awg power and ground for the amp, 16 gauge speaker wire to replace the Bose wires, and am still looking for a single set of 4-channel, shielded, twisted-pair RCA's for noise rejection...
I am NOT looking for competition or audiofile level sounds here - just something within a decent budget... and with the exception of the great deal on the used amp that I got to hear work before purchase (was in use in car - college student sold to help buy his books, and removed from car upon cash exchange), I will have EVERYTHING new, and the entire system will have cost me about $350...
And one selling point on the amp was the fact that it had a summed set of pre-amp outs - so I could rerun that amp for the Fli's, and get a second sub amp without a major rework...
I got the Sony Headunit, as I did not need a lot of bells and whistles...
the Fli Audio comp's and coax's (bought both pairs online for less than the comps were locally)
the single MTX 8" sub
and a used and working Kenwood KAC-6401 30watt rms X 4 bridgable amp.
I will be using 8 awg power and ground for the amp, 16 gauge speaker wire to replace the Bose wires, and am still looking for a single set of 4-channel, shielded, twisted-pair RCA's for noise rejection...
I am NOT looking for competition or audiofile level sounds here - just something within a decent budget... and with the exception of the great deal on the used amp that I got to hear work before purchase (was in use in car - college student sold to help buy his books, and removed from car upon cash exchange), I will have EVERYTHING new, and the entire system will have cost me about $350...
And one selling point on the amp was the fact that it had a summed set of pre-amp outs - so I could rerun that amp for the Fli's, and get a second sub amp without a major rework...
Honestly, you'll save money if you just buy two sets of cheap two channel cables. Fancy rca cables don't make much difference...shielded, twisted, super duper oxygen free mega awesome rca cables are just a little better at resisting picking up noise. This only comes in to play if you run your signal and power cables next to each other. If you keep them separate then cheap rca cables work just as well. Also, if you have bad grounds and/or poor quality deck and/or amp then the best rca cables in the world won't matter. Expensive interconnect cables are only good for one thing...making a lot of profit on.
(retail markup is usually well over 100% on cables)
10-01-2010, 04:57 PM
#18
Yeah, I know. Not looking for ultra high dollar patches - just decent. I will be running them separated, so the TP cables are just an added precaution.
Also, I picked up another second hand, but working Kenwood amp, and both amps have not only the tradition ground wire, but also a chassis ground. Any benefit in connecting that ground, or no?
Also, I picked up another second hand, but working Kenwood amp, and both amps have not only the tradition ground wire, but also a chassis ground. Any benefit in connecting that ground, or no?
10-01-2010, 05:56 PM
#19
Yeah, I know. Not looking for ultra high dollar patches - just decent. I will be running them separated, so the TP cables are just an added precaution.
Also, I picked up another second hand, but working Kenwood amp, and both amps have not only the tradition ground wire, but also a chassis ground. Any benefit in connecting that ground, or no?
Also, I picked up another second hand, but working Kenwood amp, and both amps have not only the tradition ground wire, but also a chassis ground. Any benefit in connecting that ground, or no?
10-01-2010, 07:14 PM
#20
10-02-2010, 12:18 AM
#21
10-02-2010, 01:15 AM
#22
^Dynamat Extreme has the same smell as well. Its to be expected with these products.
Peel and seal is about as thick as regular Dynamat. Just double or even triple layer PAS with a heat gun and a roller and it'll be as effective as DE at a fraction of the cost.
Peel and seal is about as thick as regular Dynamat. Just double or even triple layer PAS with a heat gun and a roller and it'll be as effective as DE at a fraction of the cost.
10-10-2010, 07:35 AM
#23
ok, well, some minor changes - and I'm installing it all this week - the headunit is staying, as is the 500 watt kenwood amp - the 320 is going to a friend... I am picking up an MTX 202 2 ch for the sub and am thinking about a 10, instead of the 8" - will have to hook up and see how low it plays...
As for the sound deadening, I got a good deal on a bigger pack of DM at best buy, of all places - they had 2 boxes still sitting on the shelf, for the past 3 years, and the boxes were ROUGH.. so took the issue to a manager, and got a 40% discount on one box... will see if it covers everything... if not, will go back, and negotiate on the second box...
As for the sound deadening, I got a good deal on a bigger pack of DM at best buy, of all places - they had 2 boxes still sitting on the shelf, for the past 3 years, and the boxes were ROUGH.. so took the issue to a manager, and got a 40% discount on one box... will see if it covers everything... if not, will go back, and negotiate on the second box...
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