numpy

[EDIT]
No, the engine's just fine. Goes limp, overheats -- doesn't care, keeps running.
[/EDIT]

This is a simple story of hubris and human folly. I ran my 150K Maxima on a several hundred mile road-trip. I ran it with dirty oil, and [EDIT] as it turned out [/EDIT] with not enough of it. I really didn't want to, but we couldn't get another car. I thought the engine could handle it, and rode it, AC blasting, in the East Coast sun. We made it not 200 miles before failure mode kicked in.

To its credit, the car failed gracefully. As gracefully as it could, given the circumstances.

First the engine went into limp mode -- a hard cutoff at no more than 2000 RPM. I coasted to a nearby exit from the highway.
The temperature gauge began to climb. As I got off the highway, temperature reached the top of gauge. I coasted it for another 30 seconds.
Upon stopping, a whole heap of steam billowed from the engine, as well as a burnt synthetic smell. The engine compartment was sprayed from the front with what appeared to be coolant.
I noticed two watery pools collecting under the engine. At least one was probably from the AC condensation.
While cooling off, I checked fluid levels. All but oil were okay -- the coolant color looked too brownish to me, but it was at max level in the its canister. Oil was very low -- on the end of the stick. I added a quart and it seemed to settle near L on the dipstick after a few more minutes of waiting.

I let the it cool to an in-range temperature, and tried to start the car. The engine turned with some difficulty, but started quickly.
Except -- now there was knock. It might have knocked a little on a cold winter morning before warming, but never like this -- unmistakable, but not ear-peelingly awful knock. There at low (maybe 1.5K) RPM, but ok idling at <1K RPM. It may have sounded fine in neutral, but I am not sure if I remember this accurately.

As this was nighttime (and a weekend), no mechanic shops were open. I drove the car in this condition a few hundred feed down the road to a motel, staying under the knocking threshold as well as I could.

The next morning the car started fine, and sounded fine revving up to 3.5K. On my way to a nearby (<1 mile) mechanic, the engine began overheating again. I pulled over, waited it out, and started it again. Ah, there's that knock again.
I brought it to a chain lube&maintenance place, and they said the radiator had sprung a leak. They also heard the engine knock, and advised me that the car was not worth repairing. I thanked them, left the car in their parking lot, and took a bus 150 miles back home.
Throughout this event, no warning lights went on -- no check engine, no low oil, nothing. (They come on ok in pre-ignition, and the car passed a State Inspection a month or two ago.)

As I understand it, here's what happened: the engine overheated first on account of insufficient oil (too much friction and/or inadequate heat transfer to engine block), The cooling system was forced to pick up the slack, but the radiator couldn't handle the heat/pressure, and either popped a leak or expelled coolant through the cap. The overheat, of course, damaged the engine, and especially so because of low oil.

My only glimmer of hope is that it ran without knock that morning before overheating again. Maybe the engine took damage, but not enough damage to knock at normal operating temperatures. (Maybe the radiator leaked first, but I don't think that really matters.) Maybe if I have a mechanic flush the oil and plug the leak, I can gently drive it 150 miles back home and try messing with the engine, or just run it into the ground until a new engine comes along -- or maybe take the damn thing apart and find what's knocking.

This is, of course, an I-told-you-so story. Service your car on time and don't push an aged engine unless you've made sure it's ready to be pushed.

But I'll be coming back for the car in 3 days. What do you say -- does it sound like junking time, or might there still be hope?

Climaxx

iTrader: (4)

If it keeps restarting good you might have a chance if you get the radiator replaced/repaired and get oil in it ASAP. As long as the temp gauge wasn't maxed out for too long your head gaskets might be okay.

I'm only guessing here. Lol

asand1

iTrader: (1)

So why couldnt you cange your oil before the trip? Filter and oil is less than $20.

Fatboy98maxima

Woww dude it is so hard to kill these 3.0 motors dont now why u did such a thing :-(

matts95max

iTrader: (11)

Lets start with this: 150k miles on the VQ is NOT equivalent to an engine on its last leg. She's still standing tall with her head held high at 150k. I just rolled over 300k miles in my max and swapped out the original motor at over 200k just because I wanted to learn how to do it. The original motor was still running strong. My mom's max has over 250k on it and is still going strong.

You knew the motor was low on oil and couldnt get another car... How bout some oil for the engine in the car you did have that you knew was low? All you had to do was stop at one of the hundreds of stores in route and grab a quart. Old, dirty oil is better than no/not enough oil.

I drive my max on 200-300 mile road trips every weekend. I just returned from a 2,000k mile road trip. I had a mini garage worth of gear in my trunk with all the tools and coolant. I ended up needing the coolant and tools to change out a heater hose that I noticed had a super small hole in it that was slightly leaking at my destination. Could I have made it back with out changing it? Probably. But I prefer not to chance it. Vehicle negligence costs too much money. I changed the oil before the trip and I plan to do it again soon with the amount of driving I do. These cars/engines will last a LONG time if you properly maintain them, better yet - perform preventative maintenance.
But with having a higher mileage or high mileage car, you HAVE to take care of them if you want them to last.

Is yours fried? I dont know. Pull the dip stick or drain the oil and see how much was in there. Dont keep starting the engine if you think its low. That means its leaking and you may not know how much has leaked out. Which also means that you will want to find the source and fix it. If its burning oil, keep a qt in your trunk.

Also if your radiator is toast, replace it. You might be lucky only end up having to replace the radiator.

Good luck!

99maxwell

iTrader: (1)

I honestly don't know why you would bother taking a road trip with a car running low on oil. if anything why didn't you just top it off? smh.



I honestly think the thing is toast.

Amerikaner83

iTrader: (17)

Seriously...under 20 bucks for oil and filter. no new car needed. I've got over 225K on my Wife's Subaru Outback and we take that car on road trips of 500+ miles ALL THE GAWDDAMNED TIME to visit her folks. With almost 160K on my Maxima we've taken roadtrips of 2000 miles with no issues. That mileage is next to nothing on our VQ30.

Take care of your damn vehicles!


It's not about "pushing an aged engine" kid, it's about taking care of what you've got and recognizing that your unwillingness to spend 20 bucks to change or at least top off your oil is now costing you at least tenfold that amount.

Live and learn I suppose...but come on.






OAN - you didn't ever own a Mustang before did you?

http://mustangforums.com/forum/5-0l-...-this-car.html

99maxwell

iTrader: (1)

again!

haha I cannot belive I just read this mustang thread like really?

BlackThornDemon

I wouldn't worry about the knocking. Fix the radiator, replace fluids. You can find a radiator at a junkyard for ~$20 and fluids for ~$30.

A friend of mine had a junk maxima. Before he sent it to the yard he ran it without any oil for almost a full 30 minutes before the engine seized. Engines aren't exactly made of glass.

numpy

Ah yes, I remember this thread. I may have pulled a stupid, but not _that_ stupid.

In my nearly non-existent defense, I had not known the oil was low before I left (although I should have). I'd topped it off a month ago, but did not bother to check before the trip (I had been away for all but the day before said trip.) There's probably an oil leak there somewhere, as I'd had to top it off before. But enough of my pasty excuses.

From what I'm reading, it sounds like I'll want to oil up the engine first, and see if it knocks at operating temperature. If it doesn't, I'll get the radiator fixed/swapped, and may make it back. But if it's still knocking, it's game over. Agreed?

asand1

iTrader: (1)

The coolant canister you speak of is the overflow tank. It will be full after the radiator pukes all the coolant out and onto the ground.

The dipstick is located an a drainback passage, so as the engine runs the stick is constantly washed with oil. Pulling the stick after shutting rhe engine off will not tell you whether you have 5 quarts or 1 quart.

maxman1988

I hope it'll survive, I always change my oil before a trip...

PowerTotheMax

The vq30 is pretty solid. I once had a large crack going along the entire top of my radiator, running bone dry for a few days without knowing. (this was the first few days within buying my max) it overheated pretty badly, but 1000 miles later, still running. I haven't had my max too long.

Edit: but yes always keep up with regular maintenance.

max ride 41

iTrader: (4)

i honestly think you should buy a bike and save us these ridiculous storys and avoid killing any more maximas.

CRiME

iTrader: (21)

He could buy a bike, but I think all he needs is some Zymol. Problem solved. Tarnation!!!

http://forums.maxima.org/6356454-post8.html

...5 years later... STILL

retro complete

S1cTech

I just skimmed your whole wall of text but it Sounds like you blew a headgasket. That can happen when running bad or low oil and the best part is. The oil when the headgasket blows will go into the water jackets and mix with your antifreeze.

Trini Boom

iTrader: (5)

Just unbearable to read a thread that states "I ran it with dirty oil, and with not enough of it. I really didn't want to, but we couldn't get another car."

That clause alone says it all and doesn't make noo sense..

deathwobble

iTrader: (1)

OAN - you didn't ever own a Mustang before did you?

http://mustangforums.com/forum/5-0l-...-this-car.html[/QUOTE]



BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHABABABABABAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAH. That guy can't be serious

max ride 41

iTrader: (4)

omg, LOL!!! i forgot all about that. some guy added that quote to his sig for years

numpy

I didn't _intentionally_ run it with low oil. I just didn't check. It's no excuse -- I just want to make it clear that this was the result of hurry and negligence. I know you guys probably all take exceptional care of your engines. I had been taking decent care of it, but lapsed this one important time. But while this horse may seem dead to me, from your perspective it may still be alive and worth beating. So beat away if you must (or if it's funny), but know that this doesn't help me fix my Maxima.
[EDIT]clarified the offending sentence in the original post.[/EDIT]

This makes sense, but could the engine work and sound ok when cold if this is the case?

Well, I'll try not to kill any more Maximas (or other makes, for that matter), but now I am more interested in diagnosing the current condition. Yes, I dumbed out about the oil -- I admitted this upfront, in the first sentence. Forget for a minute my drawn-out self-blaming story, and, if you'd like to help me with my (granted, self-inflicted) problem, put on your armchair mechanic hat and speculate.

I'll be returning to where I stranded the Maxima in a day or two, and will post more about its condition then. Meanwhile, I'd like to arm myself with as much relevant knowledge as possible. Sane, odd, and harebrained sugestions welcome.

max ride 41

iTrader: (4)

suggestion, drive a honda!!! the less i gotta hear and see these rice-buckets the better!!

pflicht

iTrader: (2)

Its probably fine. Get new parts, change oil, and done. Check the oil when you change it... If you notice a bunch of shiny stuff in it... well lol

numpy

Here are a few more things I've remembered that might be relevant:

In the past few months, the engine has been juddering slightly ('skipping a beat') in 1-3 second intervals on idle when warm. It did this occasionally (every 3rd to 7th drive) and did not persist for more than a few minutes. No judder on load.

During the drive, before the overheat, the tachometer seemed to climb from ~2.5K to 3K faster than usual. I supposed the needle was getting stuck, or there was some issue with the sensor because the engine didn't sound like it was changing its speed so quickly.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

As well as get the proper maintenenace, I suggest you TC-W3 it...look for the thread here on the org. It will help smooth things out if your engine isn't too badly damaged.

maxinout93

not having enough oil or coolant will kill your engine especially on these hot days. my 95 max has over 240K miles, I change oil every 3K or 4K miles. I have almost 100K miles more than you do, and I always check oil and coolant as well as hoses before I take a trip, and I take freeway speed trips frequently, as well as I have tools, oil, coolant, coils, and spare parts in my tool box in my trunk. These are old cars, and to keep them running you have to maintain them, they wont maintain themselves. I have a 91 chevy beretta that I blew a motor in all because I didnt change the oil, I heard knocking upon startup, oil pressure was going up and down, and in the hot heat she died on me while driving, I bought it for $500 cash, I never neglected another car after that.

The Wizard

iTrader: (43)

Give it a rest dude, the OP admitted several times he goofed. Either offer the OP helpful suggestions or stay quiet.

DBear

I don't have any suggestions, but anybody that starts a post like that should be welcomed on the forum with open arms. I hope your Max is OK.

max ride 41

iTrader: (4)

i would'nt even know where to begin. admitting he goofed?? c'mon, we all make mistakes but that's common sense to me. i guess we're all different and imperfect in some way.

S1cTech

yeah it was pretty dumb for him to do that. Like if you are that out of time. You should just swollen your pride and go to Penski and get your oil changed. Some places do it for 15 bucks. It is worth it if you're on a time crunch.

Boothers96

iTrader: (11)

Lol that mustang thread reminds me of this gem i read awhile ago.

http://www.audiforums.com/forum/off-...e-wrong-80267/

anywho OP once you get a new rad, coolant, and maybe a thermostat since its been overheated a time or two also do a compression test to check the HGs to see if thats the case. Hopefully this can be rectified with just that.

Leo_Koneval

iTrader: (4)

Jeeze, can you guys give the guy a break. God damn.

Anyways it sounds like you ran the car while it was overheated for a bit, hopefully it was not long enough cause serious damage. My advice is to fill up the necessary fluids and make sure everything is as ready to go as possible. Then start it back up and see how your engine does, if you start hearing a constant clacking or a squeaky metal sound. She might be too far gone.

numpy

Rumors of my Maxima's demise were greatly exaggerated.

I changed the radiator and re-oiled it and it sounds ok and runs fine so far. However, I'm not thoroughly convinced I know why it overheated. Here's what I've found.

The radiator had a crack running down half the length of the top plastic piece. I don't know if it was a cause or result of the overheat. The old coolant was all rusty colored, with caked-on goo at the bottom of the overflow tank. I pressure tested the cooling system -- it held for 5 minutes, so probably no leaks.

No white residue on oil cap, normal-looking old oil, no metal debris in oil or filter (on brief inspection). Contrary to my earlier claims, the oil was low by less than a quart. Not so good, but not horrible.

Here's what it sounds like: http://www.putlocker.com/file/2941E05B87FDE060
(Did you notice the low power steering fluid?)
(Coolant swirl at the end to show color.)


I'm still noticing the tach needle sticks between 2-3K rpm. It looks odd. Video: http://www.putlocker.com/file/1680979C30AB8AF9

I ran the car for 30-40 minutes, but I've yet to drive it back 2 hours. I suspect the radiator cracked during the overheat, not before. The coolant looked dirty and sludgy, and may have blocked the radiator -- but maybe that gunk collected only after coolant boiled away during the overheat. The oil was less than a quart too low -- could this have been enough?

max ride 41

iTrader: (4)

from the looks of that vq, your lucky it runs as good as it does. how does anyone keep a track of what goes wrong under the hood if they don't clean off engine and components? please clean the engine bay. my 248,000 95 leaks between oil changes up to 3/4 of a quart and i just top it off. you won't kill the car running a little low, might hear a noise or 2. i hope you put new coolant mix of 50/50 in the system, don't flush it, just drain and repeat in week or 2 to get all crappy fluid out so your engine does'nt overheat.

asand1

iTrader: (1)

The crack most likely leaked your coolant out and caused the overheat.

Max_Gator

This. The spot he described is exactly where most max radiators crack. Happened to both my 96 and 00.

Funny thing on my 96, luck saved me. We were getting ready to drive about 100 miles. Had the car all packed up. Got in and took off.

Realized just as we pulled out of the neighborhood that I forgot something in my car so turned around. I parked right behind my car, got out and as I came back I got a whiff of antifreeze. Said "uhoh", got in and the temp gauge had just started to rise. whew.

Radiator was cracked exactly where OP's was.

sciff5

iTrader: (1)

Dont feed the trolls

numpy

Surely you don't mean to imply that I am the troll that is to remain unfed. I went a bit purple-prose on you guys with my post, but I am no troll.

Also, should I flush the transmission fluid, since it also goes through the radiator? Maybe that's what the coolant gunk was.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

If the tranny fluid mixed with the coolant then you have WAY bigger problems. The fluids never mix. Check your tranny fluid. Is it a dark shiny clear pink color? Or is it light pink and you cant see through it?

asand1

iTrader: (1)

Unless your atf resembles pepto bismol, the atf and coolant are still separate.

numpy

Well, I drove it back. I noticed a mosquito squeak when the throttle's down and the engine at >2K rpm, but I don't think it's new. ATF fluid is ok, as is other stuff. I'll investigate this, but I've always had a wailing power steering pump, so maybe this is related to it. Anyway, the engine is working well.
Thanks for your advice, folks.