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So I haven't had a chance to touch the car for the past month. Had to pay more attention to the family (if you are single and not yet married this a warning for you lol) but want to start collecting parts.
This seems to be a good deal for 6 JECS injectors, would you say? I would assume they are refurbished? Or are these just the new Chinese injectors?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/112062177565
If good I will snag these and a new set of plugs and once it warms up a bit I think I will just tackle this and replace all six.
So I haven't had a chance to touch the car for the past month. Had to pay more attention to the family (if you are single and not yet married this a warning for you lol) but want to start collecting parts.
This seems to be a good deal for 6 JECS injectors, would you say? I would assume they are refurbished? Or are these just the new Chinese injectors?
If good I will snag these and a new set of plugs and once it warms up a bit I think I will just tackle this and replace all six.
I doubt they are refurbished. I suspect there are some people selling new injectors as refurbished because the wholesale price has dropped to the $2 per part range. Since the market appears to be flooded with red top injectors from China, the price for DIY rebuild kits has also taken a dive. At these prices, I won't even bother with buying a kit to refurbish my own.
Check out this thread regarding some $11 eBay injectors I purchased last year. I sent all 7 to Florida for testing and they all came back good.
I remember finding the 100 lot cost at roughly $2 each. For lots over 200 the price starts to drop to the $1 range.
Like high-end stereo turntable cartridges from from the past century, there is one helluva markup in injectors. I remember the "good old days" of buying Empire cartridges in case lots for $5.47 each and retailing them for $100 each, or throwing them in to close a multi-thousand dollar system deal. Small parts often come with a big markup.
Yes I definitely read your thread. Contains great advice and I may go that route. The ebay link that I posted is misleading since it says 'Jecs" and "OEM". I see it now on my laptop instead of phone. Appears to be the same ones that you used. I just dont want to take the UIM off, then put them in and have a bad injector.
I guess I can also send for testing if I can figure out where to send.
Would I be better off with a cleaned and tested set of OEM? They are only like $20 more for the set of 6.
Yes I definitely read your thread. Contains great advice and I may go that route. The ebay link that I posted is misleading since it says 'Jecs" and "OEM". I see it now on my laptop instead of phone. Appears to be the same ones that you used. I just dont want to take the UIM off, then put them in and have a bad injector.
I guess I can also send for testing if I can figure out where to send.
Would I be better off with a cleaned and tested set of OEM? They are only like $20 more for the set of 6.
Actually, they look like a mix from possibly different sources. The pintle caps and spacers are different. The screens have the same Made in Japan markings as the ones I got from China. Maybe there is a town in China named Japan. Who knows? Injectors direct to you from Japan China.
To me, if you are going to be in the business of rebuilding and selling used injectors, then use caps and spacers that look the same. Sure the injectors may have been from a salvage yard car and they are in fact used. How can we be sure? We can't. It's a gamble.
The only NEW injectors that I absolutely trust are the ones that are sold by Deatschwerks or BWD. Those injectors have a distinctive look that I have not seen replicated by the China-based duplicators.
Do some research into injector coil life expectancy. The electro-mechanical part of an injector will wear out eventually. Personally, I'm not so crazy about OEM injectors after experiencing two coil failures at approximately 115,000 miles on some 370cc injectors.
1) Pick up a set of new or whatever injectors for under $50. Install three in the left bank and run them for 2 or 3 weeks Then move them under the plenum once you know those are working. They are not hard to move once you've had them out.
2) When you remove the intake plenum, do the EGR coolant line bypass like many other members so the next time you need to go under the plenum, it won't be a big deal. Also, you only need to use one of intake plenum brackets (usually on the driver side). Some people don't use any, I cut grooves in the brackets to make reinstallation and removal easy. I just automatically do the bypass and fix the brackets soon after I purchase a 4th gen. I think I could pull the UIM in under an hour and reinstall it in the same time or less. Once you get rid of the u-shaped EGR coolant hose, it's not a bad job.
3) Most likely the only thing wrong with your current injectors is they need new o-rings and pintle caps. Check out www.Deatschwerks.com They will clean your old injectors for $25 each so that will be $150. You do get a cool looking decal to display in one of your rear windows.
Thank you for the above responses! Its getting warmer so getting closer to doing this. I will definitely go the route of replacing the easier three to make sure they work. Then if that doesn't work to fix the starting issue, remove the UIM. I've been looking at all of the youtube vids to remove the UIM, so I feel ready to tackle this. I may do it down the road should the front three fix the starting issue and just move the three I put in front to the rear. I want to replace the fuel pressure regular and clean the EGR as well so it makes sense to just do it.
I have everything I need, including some new tools. Only thing i don't have are the injectors. I've been procrastinating on those since I would prefer remanufactured OEM.
I want to stick with eBay as I am not sure of any other place that does not sell for an outrageously high price. But some of the ads are shady. My options are below. They claim OEM, but I think it's all BS. Which would you go with?
As I am waiting to do the injectors, which I plan on doing the last week of this month. I had some time today so I figured I would check the spark plugs.
First, the car has been sitting since beginning of January. Battery was still charged since I had it disconnected and it is relatively new, but I threw on portable jumper anyway. Turned the key... no noise at all from the fuel pump! Completely dead. No noise whatsoever. Fuse was fine..
Maybe injectors are fine after all!?! So I will obviously need to tackle this first. It was definitely working the when I moved the car in January.
On second note, plugs were filthy and the threads covered in oil! See photos below. The actual spark plug tubes were clean. Prior owner told me he changed these... I doubt it!
If I'm seeing fluffy dark carbon build up it looks like one might be running a bit rich.
I once had that problem with two cylinders from two injectors with leaking o-rings.
Can you pick the two cylinders from my 99 model in the picture below?
Care to guess why the engine was out of the car and the heads were off?
I had replaced injectors in a Nissan V8 long before I started buying 4th gens, so I knew how to do it on a much harder engine to work on than a VQ30.
Looking back to 2013 when I purchased that 4th gen, if I had spent under $40 for an injector refurbish kit that contained new o-rings, screens and pentile caps, or I had sent the injectors out for servicing, or found some new injectors that were reasonably priced as soon as I bought the car, the original engine would most likely still be running and I would have avoided over $2,000 in engine swap and other costs associated with the damage that was done by two leaking o-rings.
But I just couldn't believe the seemingly good injectors would lead to other problems.
We see dozens of injector leak issues here over the course of a year.
It's not a matter of if, but a matter of when the o-rings/pentile caps will introduce a leak.
Doing a little preventative maintenance can save more money than the car can or will ever bring on the used market. Basically, it will save your car.
The plugs were NGK R's which I am sure are the cheap copper ones, so I will get the gold or platinums are replacement. I do plan on still refreshing the injectors, starting with the front three, then moving to the rear three.
The close up are the fronts, so I believe thats where the problem may lie.. *fingers crossed*.
I wonder if the dead fuel pump is related to the hard start? It was working fine before. I am assuming dead because it is making no noise whatsoever.
Take a look at the following thread before forming an opinion about "cheap copper" plugs.
Personally, I would pay more $$ for the copper v-power plugs than I would for an iridium or platinum for the reasons covered in that spark plug thread.
The good news is I can usually get a set for under $15.
The puzzling issue is the fuel pump. I seem to recall you checking fuel pressure a few months ago and it was good. I don't usually hear my fuel pump run unless the tank is nearly empty. I would look for a blown fuel pump fuse for starters.
Take a look at the following thread before forming an opinion about "cheap copper" plugs.
Personally, I would pay more $$ for the copper v-power plugs than I would for an iridium or platinum for the reasons covered in that spark plug thread.
The good news is I can usually get a set for under $15.
The puzzling issue is the fuel pump. I seem to recall you checking fuel pressure a few months ago and it was good. I don't usually hear my fuel pump run unless the tank is nearly empty. I would look for a blown fuel pump fuse for starters.
Ah, I just have misread. I will check out that thread later on. Please bear with me I'm pretty new at this
As for the fuel pump, the only way that I knew it had pressure before was the fuel would come pouring out when I removed the hoses after cranking and when I replaced the fuel filter. I always heard the priming of the pump and it used to make a slight whine.
I removed the rear seat cushion and the cover to the fuel pump and put my ear against it and there was no noise whatsoever. Not even any priming noise when I turned the ignition and on initially.
In the fuse panel, on the right side, two slots down from the yellow line in the picture below there should be a 15 amp Fuel Pump fuse.. Check that fuse.
In the fuse panel, on the right side, two slots down from the yellow line in the picture below there should be a 15 amp Fuel Pump fuse.. Check that fuse.
Already checked and replaced that fuse earlier. No dice.
Originally Posted by CS_AR
If it turns out that you have a bad fuel pump, here a video from one of our members on replacement.
I will check it out. I'm actually looking forward to attempting the fuel pump replacement. Not so much those rear injectors
I think you said PO changed the crank and cam sensors. New or Used? Make sure they are all plugged in tight. Disconnect and check to make sure no broken or otherwise damaged wires. Did you check the crank sensor by the harmonic balancer for oil build up...it might prevent the sensor from pickingup....clean the magnet.
I think you said PO changed the crank and cam sensors. New or Used? Make sure they are all plugged in tight. Disconnect and check to make sure no broken or otherwise damaged wires. Did you check the crank sensor by the harmonic balancer for oil build up...it might prevent the sensor from pickingup....clean the magnet.
Yes, they are new. I checked the ones that were easily accessible. If the injectors, plugs and apparently now fuel pump don't fix this, I will check those before I just burn the car or roll it off a cliff
Just some quick advice from a guy that has done 6 major under plenum projects on Nissan V engines.
You want to start with a running engine if at all possible.
Having a running baseline, although it may not be perfect, can save hours of time troubleshooting time if something goes wrong with a vacuum line or other item when you finish the job.
Just some quick advice from a guy that has done 6 major under plenum projects on Nissan V engines.
You want to start with a running engine if at all possible.
Having a running baseline, although it may not be perfect, can save hours of time troubleshooting time if something goes wrong with a vacuum line or other item when you finish the job.
I completely agree with that. My hopes is to get the car running with the everything that I plan on doing (plugs & front injectors), then do the rear injectors and EGR once the plenum is off. I actually may try to do the EGR as is.. that should be a task but at least I can try to open it up a bit if its clogged. One of my two CEL's is EGR.
Question. At this point I don't want to pay for new platinum plugs. Should I just throw the platinum's that I have back in? I know that you cannot clean platinums without damaging them and that they come pre gapped.
Otherwise, I may go for the coppers as previously recommended since they are cheaper. For those of you using the coppers which NGK's are you getting? Also what is the gap?
Question. At this point I don't want to pay for new platinum plugs. Should I just throw the platinum's that I have back in? I know that you cannot clean platinums without damaging them and that they come pre gapped.
Otherwise, I may go for the coppers as previously recommended since they are cheaper. For those of you using the coppers which NGK's are you getting? Also what is the gap?
NGK V Power Spark Plug (BKR5E-11) $2.49 list at Advance Auto. Use a coupon when you order online and specify "in store" pickup.
Gap 0.044
Be careful if you use V Power coppers. The ARE habit forming.
NGK V Power Spark Plug (BKR5E-11) $2.49 list at Advance Auto. Use a coupon when you order online and specify "in store" pickup.
Gap 0.044
Be careful if you use V Power coppers. The ARE habit forming.
Thank you. I will likely pick them up today.
I tested the front coil packs with my multimeter and they tested properly from what I found here on the forums. The rears on the other hand are making reading no matter what pins I touch and all are under "1". I will need to look into that later today. Not sure if they are to test differently and the YouTube vids were not clear.
Also, I do not have a simple 12 volt supply to check the fuel pump relay, but i checked it yesterday and while it was plugged in I can definitely hear and feel it clicking over. What I'll do is swap it with the sunroof relay once I get the plugs and pump in just to be sure.
How did your work with the fuel pump turn out? What all did you get done today?
Ok so there is some coil variance above. As Dennis noted in the thread where copper plugs were discussed in the link above, it doesn't take much coil power to drive a copper plug.
How did your work with the fuel pump turn out? What all did you get done today?
Ok so there is some coil variance above. As Dennis noted in the thread where copper plugs were discussed in the link above, it doesn't take much coil power to drive a copper plug.
The fuel pump should be here hopefully tomorrow. I just need to see if I have time to put it in during the week. The copper plugs are in. There was never an issue with these ignition coils as they were just put in by the previous owner before the sale. He actually replaced the OEM ignition coils while chasing down the hard starting issue. I just figured that I test them once I saw that they were aftermarket. I guess it passed the test between pins 1 & 2 which appear to be the main ones that need to be tested.
If anything once I change it out the pump and test the new plugs, I can always just change coil number one and see if that fixes anything. A bad coil shouldn't give a no start. It should only run like junk which is not the case because it ran fine once it was started.
The fuel pump should be here hopefully tomorrow. I just need to see if I have time to put it in during the week. The copper plugs are in. There was never an issue with these ignition coils as they were just put in by the previous owner before the sale. He actually replaced the OEM ignition coils while chasing down the hard starting issue. I just figured that I test them once I saw that they were aftermarket. I guess it passed the test between pins 1 & 2 which appear to be the main ones that need to be tested.
If anything once I change it out the pump and test the new plugs, I can always just change coil number one and see if that fixes anything. A bad coil shouldn't give a no start. It should only run like junk which is not the case because it ran fine once it was started.
I agree. It was once running good so something quickly changed, possibly with the fuel system, that is keeping it from running.
I'm coming in a little late to this, but if there is pressure in the fuel lines, you won't hear the pump run. First thing after the car has been off for several hours - yes, but shortly after the pump has been running, probably not.
A test for the fuel pump would be to disconnect the hose from the pump, probably at the fuel filter, put the open hose into a container and turn the key on. You probably will have to add a piece of extension hose to do this.
About the only other way would be to check the voltage on the black/yellow stripe wire either on the bottom of the fuel pump relay or at the gas tank.
I'm coming in a little late to this, but if there is pressure in the fuel lines, you won't hear the pump run. First thing after the car has been off for several hours - yes, but shortly after the pump has been running, probably not.
A test for the fuel pump would be to disconnect the hose from the pump, probably at the fuel filter, put the open hose into a container and turn the key on. You probably will have to add a piece of extension hose to do this.
About the only other way would be to check the voltage on the black/yellow stripe wire either on the bottom of the fuel pump relay or at the gas tank.
I used to hear it quite distinctly before this. I would hear it prime and it had a slight whine to it while running. Right now, nothing. Even when I swapped over the relays. I've been looking for a tutorial for testing the voltage at the fuel pump and sending unit as I want to make sure the sending unit itself is not the issue as well. I'm sure it's just the matter of testing the voltage somewhere.
As Dennis noted, disconnecting the fuel line at the fuel filter with an extension hose that leads to a can or plastic bottle will rule out whether the pump is working. Just be careful not to let the fuel splash out and start a fire.
Question for Dennis: On 4th gens, do we get a warning when a fuel pump is "on the way out" by a continuous whining noise from the fuel pump when the car is running?
On one of my other Nissan vehicles, a continuously whining pump is a tell tale sign that the pump is worn out and is drawing more current than normal. Unfortunately, on that car (not a 4th gen) if the whining pump is not replaced within a few hours of operation, the additional current draw burns out the FPCM. I'm glad 4th gens don't have that problem.
As Dennis noted, disconnecting the fuel line at the fuel filter with an extension hose that leads to a can or plastic bottle will rule out whether the pump is working. Just be careful not to let the fuel splash out and start a fire.
I had that line disconnected shortly before I let the car sit when I put in the new fuel filter. I did not drive the car after that aside from moving it from a parking space to the street. I will pull that line to see of there is any fuel before I replace the pump.
Question for Dennis: On 4th gens, do we get a warning when a fuel pump is "on the way out" by a continuous whining noise from the fuel pump when the car is running?
I have never experienced a fuel pump going out on these cars, so I can't answer the question.
But I doubt that would be the case. I don't know how you could build a noise maker into a motor that would indicate an upcoming failure. If the bearings for the armature were failing, that would probably make noise that you might hear. If the brushes wear out, the motor just stops without any advanced notice.
I used to hear it quite distinctly before this. I would hear it prime and it had a slight whine to it while running. Right now, nothing. Even when I swapped over the relays. I've been looking for a tutorial for testing the voltage at the fuel pump and sending unit as I want to make sure the sending unit itself is not the issue as well. I'm sure it's just the matter of testing the voltage somewhere.
The sending unit itself cannot stop the pump from working. Its primary purpose is to run the fuel gauge in the instrument cluster. But the design of the unit incorporates a holder for the electrical connector for the fuel pump. Any electrical connection could be a problem.
There are 2 plugs on the sending unit, a 4 wire connector that is for the gas gauge and a 2 wire connector that is for the fuel pump. The fuel pump connector wires are:
Pin 1- black with yellow stripe that has 12 volts from the fuel pump relay.
Pin 2- green with red stripe that is the ground for the fuel pump.
The design of the fuel pump electrical circuit is more than simply sending 12 volts to the fuel pump when you turn the ignition key on. While it is not complex, it has some additional parts and you need to understand who the players are.
When you first turn the ignition key to the ON position, the fuel pump will run for a second or two to pressurize the system and then shut off. When you turn the key to the START position and the engine cranks, pulses from the flywheel crankshaft sensor tell the ECU to turn the fuel pump on again. As long as the ECU keeps getting pulses from the crankshaft sensor, the fuel pump will run.
The way that the ECU causes the fuel pump to run is to energize a relay and it is the relay that sends 12 volts to the fuel pump. For starting purposes, the ECU will energize the fuel pump relay for a second or two when you first turn the ignition key on. If the ECU does not get pulses from the crankshaft sensor within that initial second or two, the ECU times out and de-energizes the fuel pump relay and the fuel pump stops. This is also true if the engine has been running and dies. The ECU will de-energize the relay within a second or two to turn the fuel pump off.
There is also a speed control circuit for the fuel pump on cars built to California emissions. The ECU can regulate how fast the fuel pump spins, thereby regulating the amount of fuel the pump spits out. I don't know what the ECU uses to determine how much gas needs to be pumped. It is a circuit similar to the dash light dimmer, it messes with the ground connection of the fuel pump motor. It allows the fuel pump to run at full speed or at what I guess to be 3/4 speed. If you unplug the control module, the fuel pump will only run at the lower speed. This control module is not on 98 and 99 models.
There are 2 fuses that supply power to the fuel pump relay. When checking fuses, sometimes just looking at the fuse will not reveal a blown fuse. You need to check it for continuity. But for quick diagnosing, swap it with another fuse.
Fuse # 17 supplies power to energize the relay. This fuse also supplies power to 14 other things, so unless a lot of other things don't work, this fuse is probably OK. I'd check it anyway, just in case. (middle column, 6 up from the bottom, labeled ENGINE CONTROL)
Fuse # 32 supplies power to the relay switching contacts that will be sent to the fuel pump. Only the fuel pump uses this fuse. (right hand column, 6 up from the bottom, labeled FUEL PUMP)
The fuel pump relay is behind the driver side kick panel. There are 2, maybe 3, relays mounted on a metal bracket. If you have ABS brakes, there will be an ABS control unit box in front of them that you will have to remove. The 3rd relay is for the sunroof, so if there is no sunroof, no 3rd relay. Both relays look the same so look for a black/yellow stripe wire that is for the fuel pump. I'm pretty sure the fuel pump relay is the bottom one. You will have to unbolt the bracket so that you can get to the backside of the relays.
But before jumping into electrical troubleshooting, do the following quick checks:
1) Disconnect the hose from the fuel pump. This can be done either at the fuel filter under the hood or at the gas tank sending unit under the rear seat. I think the under hood fuel filter is better because you have much less of a chance "spilling" gasoline inside the car. Use a piece of spare fuel hose to extend the fuel line to a container that will get gas squirted into it. A 2 liter soda bottle will probably be OK for this, but I use my spare gas can that I have. Make sure the end of the hose is secure in the container as the gas will come out with force and whip that hose around. Then turn on the ignition switch. If everything is OK, gas will shoot out of the hose and you don't have a fuel pump problem. If no gas comes out, do the next quick check.
2) Remove the rear seat bottom cushion and the black circular plate that covers the gas tank fuel sending unit. Unplug the 2 wire electric connector from the sending unit. Using either a voltmeter or a test light, Connect one lead into the wire harness connector pin 1, the black with yellow stripe wire and the other lead to chassis ground. Keeping an eye on the voltmeter/test light, turn on the ignition switch. You should have 12 volts for a second or two. If you have voltage but did not get gasoline in the previous step, you probably have a bad fuel pump. If you did not get voltage, you will have to do electrical troubleshooting.
Appreciate the detailed responses. You all have been an immense help. I will check all of the above that you, CS_AR and everyone else here have suggested this weekend before I even replace the fuel pump and injectors.
What a task this has become! This project scares the hell out of me since I am so new at this stuff, but I am enjoying the challenge
At some point, I will put together a timeline of everything so that it can help others.
Appreciate the detailed responses. You all have been an immense help. I will check all of the above that you, CS_AR and everyone else here have suggested this weekend before I even replace the fuel pump and injectors.
What a task this has become! This project scares the hell out of me since I am so new at this stuff, but I am enjoying the challenge
At some point, I will put together a timeline of everything so that it can help others.
I think you will do a great job! We all started somewhere and we learn new things every day. Each time I start another 4th gen project it scares me. I never know what will unfold when I start removing parts.
I've learned from this thread that our fuel pumps give no warning before they stop working. So from following this thread, I recently ordered two fuel pumps to replace the ones on the 98 and 99 models that both have well over 200,000 miles. Since I've replaced/refurbished almost everything else with those fuel systems, I figured I should just do it later this spring or summer.
Thanks! Slowly getting there. I only have a small amount of time every day to work on this. Today was supposed to be a whole day, but i'm sick
In either case, I purchased a small 12v power supply. It was enough to fire up my spare fuel pump... and enough to sound the pump that's in the car.... So I guess i'll just stick with the newer one as a spare...or replace it down the road.
I put a voltmeter on the connector to the fuel pump and its getting 11.6v of power for a split second, then powers down immediately.
I guess at this point I need to question the crank/cam sensors So next, I need to see how to test those.
01-31-2017, 06:02 PM
So next, I need to see how to test those.