speedtrip

First off I would like to say it was a pleasant surprise to see SLC I30t and toolrocks at EIP!

Now I have sent all the dyno's to IanS to host so they will be available. I have 4 dyno's. Baseline with OE manifold, OE manifold vs VI, VI off vs VI on, and VI on. VI was set to activate at 5k rpm.

Please note when comparing numbers I am using my original manifold versus the VI.

Bad news first. I gained 0.6 max hp and I lost 6.2 lb ft of max torque. Between 3.2k rpm and 5k rpm the VI torque curve is 1 to 8 ft lbs lower than my baseline. HP is also lower 1-5hp from 3.2k rpm to 5k rpm.

Good news. After 5k rpm things start to happen. hp peak has moved from 5400 rpms to 6100 rpms. Torque peak has moved from 4800 rpms to 5000 rpms. At 6500 rpms the VI has increased by 30-35 hp and 28-32 ft. lbs of torque.

When the VI dyno was completed every tech in the shop stopped to check it out. All were impressed.

I think that I have gained way more than I have lost and I am completely satisfied. 5th gear downshifts to 3 rd gear are lethal.

I fear with the VI installed the CAI may be doing more harm than good.

xHypex

iTrader: (1)

Finally I've been waiting an hour for this post and at least the news is good. It would be interesting to see the results of the VI with a popcharger or better yet a hybrid. I want to see your torque curve most of all, but I'm wondering if the VI magnifies the VQ's already bumpy torque curve. For some reason in most dynoes there are bumps in the midrange. As long as the VI pulls from 5-redline I'll be happy, but I am curious as to the small peak hp gain
-hype

speedtrip

The VI really smoothed out the torque curve from 2k to 3.4k. There was a small gain in torque between 2.4k rpm and 3.3k rpm.

xHypex

iTrader: (1)

Looking at the data you posted it seems a little strange to me that you lost peak tq. I, as well as everyone else, was basically hoping for a torque gain which would ultimately end up as a hp gain because of the hp function. It also seems to me that the VI would be complimented very well by a ypipe, exhaust, and hybrid intake which would all help increase top end power due to the greater velocity flow on the intake and exhaust.
BTW speedtrip check your PMs.
-hype

Mishmosh

iTrader: (3)

xHypex

iTrader: (1)

For those who care and wish to help me interpret the data the dynoes are here:
Dyno1
Dyno2
Dyno3
Dyno4

-hype

MAXINXS

Wow! I need one of these.

SLC I30t

iTrader: (1)

I noticed that Steve's Dyno with a pop charger had better peak power and tq than yours or mine did with a CAI. I think we've been misled about the benefits of a CAI vs POP.

speedtrip

I wasn't to upset with the better peak numbers that Steve had. However I was amazed at how much longer his POP held the torque and hp over my CAI to redline. It looked like he had a good 10 ft lbs of torque over my baseline at redline.

SLC I30t

iTrader: (1)

I think there is something to be said about 95 maxima.
I'm still in shock over your sheet though. I only hope to aspire to such sheet-ness

xHypex

iTrader: (1)

speedtrip would you care to do some statistical analysis for us I would do it myself, but it's hard to hold a ruler up to my monitor and get accurate numbers. If you would please sir, take my spreadsheet and fill in the blanks for us since you have the printouts. The dots on the vertical axis are 5tq and the dots along the horizontal axis are 100 rpm. Just use a ruler and plot the points along the torque curve and the hp readings will fill in themselves. If you want to send it back to me I can host it as well.
That's about the best we can do atm. There is a nice hp increase at redline, but I think a pop would do you better overall. I really want to dyno with a VI and a hybrid now
-hype

speedtrip

I'll take care of it tomorrow morning.

SuDZ

I have a hybrid setup and going to order a VI in the next week or two but it wont be here for around 2 months. Hopefully the gains are nice with a 5 speed and hybrid setup.

SuDZ

iansw

iTrader: (7)

Here they are:

Base Runs, Original Manifold, 5-spd in 4th Gear
http://www.cyberhub.net/intake/speedtrip/base1.jpg
http://www.cyberhub.net/intake/speedtrip/base2.jpg

Runs with VI, 5spd in 4th Gear
http://www.cyberhub.net/intake/speedtrip/VIon1.jpg
http://www.cyberhub.net/intake/speedtrip/VIon2.jpg

IanS

iansw

iTrader: (7)

Oops, didn't see they had already been posted.

I'm glad you're enjoying the VI, Speedtrip.
Now may I shamelessly plug?

(clears throat)...Ahem....

The GD will be on for another week or two for these...my price is $560 shipped and inlcudes all bolts needed plus, if I can find them at the junk yard, Vacuum solenoids.

Unfortunatley, if any of you have been following my progress, the shipment will take 2-3 months, and because of this, I cannot use PayPal. Besides, their customer service is unbelievably poor, and I'm dropping them as a pay service forever as soon as they refund everyone's money.

I have signed up on Yahoo PayDirect as "cyberhubvi", and Western Union/Wire Transfer/Check will also work.

E-Mail me at cyberoptik@cablespeed.com



IanS

NYCe MaXiMa

iTrader: (9)

How much is this thing and where can I get it?

iansw

iTrader: (7)

Laugh...read the post right before yours.

IanS

Dave B

I'm very perplexed as to why the intake isn't really making anymore peak power. All it's doing is extending rpm before power falls off. I was realy hoping to see at least 10fwhp and tq with this mod, but it doesn't seem to be the case. I don't know if this mod will really improve performance that much in the 1/4 mile. I guess we won't know until someone tests out their autos and 5 speeds at the track and can make a comparison.




Dave

iansw

iTrader: (7)

I'm doing that tomorrow.

Besides, peak hp means very little when it come to only 10hp. If you drove the car, you'd know what I'm talking about. The length of time that you remain at peak hp is far more important.

IanS

Dave B

I hope you have run your car before so we have some sort of baseline. Since you've got heavy rims and a elaborate stereo, I don't how we'll be able to compare your numbers if you don't have a baseline.

You're right, peak HP means very little, but I figured the manifold would gain some peak power. It doesn't. Something isn't jiving because you guys are only making about 205-210hp WITH bolt-on mods. The JDM spec Maximas are rated at 210+hp stock.

I still think I'm gonna buy one though


Dave

iansw

iTrader: (7)

Yes, I figure the rest of the difference is probably because of less restrictive emmissions.

Secondly, half my stereo is removable, and my rims only weigh 19lbs. As far as I've heard, that's not all that heavy.

If I remove my spare, the weight of the car should be close to the same as with the spare and no stereo.

I will do runs with the VI turned on and with it turned off.

IanS

Toolrocks

iTrader: (1)

Can't wait to see those times tomorrow. You know I'm still in the group deal. The intake looks nice. I got to see speedtrips at the Dyno place today. He did a real nice install too. Thanks for all the effort IanS and thanks for the 5 speed dyno speedtrip.

iansw

iTrader: (7)

No problem.

To add to my earlier post:

Besides, my weight on my car doesn't matter. If I get a 17 second 1/4 mile with the VI off, and a 16.5 second with it on, that itself will show proof. If my car is completely stripped of weight and runs a 15 then a 14.5, it's still the same results.

IanS

black97max

Good point. I can't wait to see the results.

MAX

How about the butt dyno? Noticeable gains?

iansw

iTrader: (7)

I've been driving it for 3 weeks. My Butt Dyno 2000 says YEEAAAH!

Also, I took it to the last NW Maxima Meet. ebmorgan, Johnny, Jeff92SE, mrb23, and airmattdog all drove it, and they all agreed.

IanS

SLC I30t

iTrader: (1)

I don't know about gaining 10fwhp, , but I know what it feels like to lose appx 10fwhp. It is very noticable in the 1/4 mile

big_dawg

iTrader: (2)

Would this setup work with a supercharger???

nismo2020

iTrader: (1)

like dave said, those werent the numbers i was expecting. but the track will be another test.

speedtrip maybe i missed the answer to this question in the hundreds of posts/threads about the VI but here is my question - you say you are going to run your max with the VI off then on. is the VI manifold the same as a stock maxes with it closed? i mean as far as runner length and things of that nature.

all in all kudos to you and iansw and all that helped you with install/dyno.

speedtrip

There are subtle differences in the shape of the runners between the OE and VI manifolds. As to runner length they appear to be the same when compared directly. When the VI valves are closed there is still a small space from the top of the intake runners to where the VI valves reside.

NotNew!!NewSN!!

honestly im super impressed, because im not looking at peak numbers im lookin at the approaching of a vtech(i know they are different dont start that whole argument) style hp curve where instead of having to shift out early u hold out each gear, all i keep thinkin about is taking 2nd and 3rd to 6.8k's on the tach every time instead of feeling like the car is choking. i shall be ordering in a month of 2

xHypex

iTrader: (1)

I'm glad you posted about the importance of the average gain over the rpm rather than peak hp. I still think speedtrip's numbers seem off since many of us dyno higher numbers with fewer mods, but he is at altitude. Here's the updated spreadsheet with the torque/rpm filled in thanks to speedtrip Ian's spreadsheet looks similar, but you have to remeber that there are small variances on the dynoes (i.e. lost power). Overall Ian gained 6hp at 5000rpms and 23.3hp at 6300rpms with an average gain of 11.76hp between 5000-6300 (where his dyno cut off). speedtrip got some negatives numbers right around the VI opened so I'd really like to see a VI with a pop/hybrid intake. speedtrip's numbers were -3.81hp at 5k (which is within error) and 37.13hp at 6500 with an average gain of 14.36 over the 5-6500rpm range.

So now you have some numbers to look over and decide My VI should be here in the next few months and it'll definitely be fun to play with.
-hype

nismo2020

iTrader: (1)

not to knock the hard work everyone is putting in to this project but it seems there is always to be an excuse on why the VI doesnt spit out bigger numbers. at first it was ian's auto tranny now its the cai isnt good for the VI. the only dyno i remember that had substanial gains is mardi's. no denying the gains though.

xHypex

iTrader: (1)

Comment all you want, we're just working with what we have. If you don't like the gains don't buy a VI. Personally I'm running out of bolt on power mods and this is right up my alley However, we've all talked about how the CAI loses in the top end so wouldn't you agree that it's at least a possibility that the CAI hurts the VI quite a bit since it is only designed for the top end?
-hype

speedtrip

There's always an excuse isn't there!!!!!!!

Right now IanS and my dynoes are two lonely points in a sea of assumption. This is true R&D. While IanS and myself may not have posted substanial increases in peak hp that's not to say some other combination will give better results.

One thing I would like to point out is that IanS baseline is just with the VI off not with the OE manifold. I had a 3.8hp increase in max hp when comparing the VI on and VI off dynoes.

I went ahead and converted my CAI to hybrid. Butt dyno says h*ll yeah! The engine feels like it is pulling better past 3k rpm. I had a much louder and longer tire chirp going from 1st to 2nd gear. In 3rd gear I kept the engine at 3k rpms and mashed it. At 5.5k rpm the power was slightly pushing my back into the seat which I did not feel before with the CAI/VI set-up.

Who knows when I will be able to dyno again to verify. I'd say atleast two weeks.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

So, Speedtrip,

I imagine you've converted your CAI to a hybrid?

This seems to bring the point home that the CAI is restrictive in the top end of the 1st gen VQ. I was a stubborn dis-beleiver, but too much eveidence has come forth.

One thing that the CAI does better than POP, make the torque curve very linear. The POP/Hybrid setups seem to make a lot of peaks and dips.


Still, the VI is a winner. Some people may be looking for a torque curve that goes above peak reading, but may not appreciate that the VI has lifted the power curve significantly after 5K rpms.

There is definitely a VI in my future

DW

iansw

iTrader: (7)

Do a search and look around. Of course it will.

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

VI It does a 4th gen GOOD!!!

iansw

iTrader: (7)

I don't understand what you all mean about the CAI.

His numbers are significantly higher than mine, especially the averages above 5000 RPMs between the runs.

I have an average hp gain of 11hp with the VI off vs on above 5k, Speedtrip has a 14hp average difference.

Wouldn't that show that the CAI is a better mod?

(I only have a crappy K&N home made Pop-Charger right now)


IanS

Dave B

Actually VTEC continues to make power. It doesn't go flat up top like the VI on the VQ. I do think it's weird that I'm making quite a bit more HP and TQ than either of these guys with the VI and I don't consider my car to be freakish in terms of dynoed power.

I studied Speedtrip's dynos closely and I was very happy to see that the VI did smooth out the "dippiness" of the VQ torque curve from 2000-4500rpms. This alone will help a little in the 1/4 mile, especially with the autos. The fact that power does indeed hold on for an extra 500-600rpms should improve acceleration in the 1/4 mile. Us 5 speed guys won't have to shift to 4th assuming we use redline for every gear. I believe 3rd on the 5 speed is good for close 100mph at 6500rpms. Currently I shift the 1-2@6500, 2-3 6200, and 3-4@6000 one less shift should help things.

Has anyone else considered that maybe the JWT ecu with the higher rev limiter might actually help things with this manifold? Doing a rough calulation in my head shows that if we have the 7000rpm limiter of the JWT ECU, we might actually be able to go even quicker. The extra 500rpms of rev will let you enter the powerband at a more ideal rpm. Roughly, we should be looking at these shift points (I'll do the real calculations tonight):

1-2 7000 (need ECU), entering 2nd at ~4500rpms
2-3 6700 (need ECU), entering 3rd at ~4800rpms
3-4 6300

Does anyone else notice that this VI in breathing like the 2002 VI? The 2002 kind of goes flat, but holds on to the power for quite a while.

I've posted this dyno plot to some guru's over at the Contour SVT site. They have much more experience with motors that can breath up top. I'll see what they have to say about this new powerband and if they think it's effective.


Dave