"auto would lose, five speed would take him" thats all i see on the ORG. Please it is the same car! My auto (true stock) can run with any, same car, five speed You can manually shift auto's that is why there is D1 D2 D3 O/D

 

You are sadly mistaken.

 

i will destroy you

 

LOL... I would be worried if you couldn't. VG autos aren't what you would term fast.

 

Whoa, how could we argue with that.

 

man, i never even realized this about autos. he's 100% correct auto's are just sticks without the clutch. man we are all so stupid. screw gear ratios, torque converters and weight, the key factor here is trying to make a girl think u drive a stick by sliding the lever back and forth.







lock this thread before my 5 speed instincts make me get really mad.

 

The auto slushbox weighs more than a manual tranny. You're already at a disadvantage...take a look at this picture:

http://www.css.tayloru.edu/~hheiner/hlh0501/trannys.jpg

Barring that, autos simply don't shift as fast as manuals - they aren't programmed to. Read any car mag that tests both a manual and auto version of the same car, and 9 times out of 10, the auto is slower than the manual.

 

Hey toughguy,

Read this link.

Here is a direct quote: "The test numbers, particularly acceleration from zero to 60, tell the real story. The SE averaged 6.7 seconds to the GXE's 7.3. That difference in speed was further highlighted in the quarter-mile. The SE, because of our ability to control the power off the line, was able to do the quarter-mile in 15.1 seconds at 98 mph. The GXE was more than half of a second behind, at 15.7 at 92 mph."

 

 

Lets see power loss throught the tranny on a 5 speed is around 10% - 15% and power loss throught the tranny on an Auto is 20%....

Accoring to simple math, taught to me in High School, the 5 Speed wins by default.

Can a moderator delete this stupid thread now please?

 

Not tryin to be tough just want to make a point (nice link) but i am pretty sure they did not use a break release or shift manually

 

I agree.

 

Basically what I am tryin to say is that the difference is not that significant pendending on the techniques used. Therefore when people say "if you had a 5-speed you could win but with an auto you would lose" which is a false statement

 

Heh...well, why don't you go take your auto to the track and work whatever magic you do to make your automatic run exactly the same as a manual with the same trim level/options/mods, and show us the slips.

I thought quotes like "I will destroy you" to other members of the forum were only found on GM & civic boards

 

good idea

 

Yes, it is significant. I've been to the track with an Auto that had almost the exact same mods as I did...and it couldn't come within a half second of me.

 

There are about a bazillion time slips out there that prove that autos run ~0.5 sec slower in the 1/4 mile than 5 speeds. Auto 4th gens (normally aspirated) have a very very tough time breaking into 14's in the 1/4 mile. There are quite a large number of 5 speed 4th gens that are deep into 14's, even as low as 14.1-14.3. And yes, I'm quite sure that these auto drivers did brake torque and shift manually. Maybe they're not quite as badazz as you, but maybe close.

The proof is out there. Autos are just slower.

Why? Fewer gears means reduced optimization of the acceleration curve. The auto tranny shifts slower than a person can shift a 5speed. Even though the valve body upgrade significantly quickens shifting, the autos still have difficulty breaking into the 14's. Another disadvantage is weight. The auto transmission adds ~75-100 lbs over the 5speed, which accounts for a 0.1-0.2 sec slower acceleration time in the 1/4 mile. Also, since a torque converter is used in an auto instead of a clutch, there is a large amount of power loss that occurs. Auto 4th gens dyno about 10 less HP than 5speeds. Less power reaches the wheels. Again, this slows the autos down more.

Dood, we are not all idiots here. You are not "enlightening" us. Newbie.

 

Auto trannies use a torque converter - it uses fluid to make the trannie spin at the same rate as the engine. This is never going to be as efficient as a manual transmission where a clutch directly engages engine to trannie - which is why in an auto you can be in gear while stationary - the TC pump is still spinning, but not transfering enough power to push the car with the brakes lightly applied.

You may think you're "manually shifting" but all you're doing is delaying the gear change. It's not the shifting that makes the difference, it's the power transfer while you are in gear..

 

Hey... just because we're Newbie's it doesn't mean we know nothing.. give us a break - I'm sure everyone was a Newbie once!

Let's educate, not insult..

 

Basically what I am tryin to say is that the difference is not that significant pendending on the TECHNIQUES USED. Therefore when people say "if you had a 5-speed you could win but with an auto you would lose" which is a false statement.

Notice the quote that is were the problem lies

 

You do realize just how big a difference a half a second is in the quarter mile? It will easily make the difference in many races. So, depending on the car that this "race" is against, that statement could very well be true.

Bottom line, you have 5 speed envy and should seek help in treating it or start your conversion this week.

 

Techniques used
5 speeds are cool but i prefer auto cause i don't enjoy traffic and manuals + traffic + me = road rage

 

What do you mean by the techniques used? Unless your technique invloves having a lockup clutch that engages the engine and trannie directly at a given turbine/pump rotation speed when they are equal in the TC, then no driving technique is going to make the Auto trannie more efficient. It's pure physics.

I'm not trying to bash you, but the reality is, if the driver of the stick can shift pretty well, then the engine gets more power to the transmission - from there on it's down to traction on the pavement.

 

Herein is where the problem lies:

Gear ratios for a Gen4 5 speed Maxima:
1st: 3.285
2nd: 1.850
3rd: 1.272
4th: 0.954
5th: 0.795
Final drive: 3.823

Gear ratios for a Gen4 automatic Maxima:
1st: 2.785
2nd: 1.545
3rd: 1.000
4th: 0.694
Final drive: 3.619

If you read up about gear ratios, a shorter gear (higher number) results in better acceleration, all other things being equal. The trade off is a lower top end. In the case of our otherwise identical Maximas, the 5 speed will accelerate faster because it is geared better, even assuming that the automatic shifted as quickly and as effeciently as the manual (which it doesn't).

 

And yet more evidence in favor of the 5 speed...

..and to summarize, your honor...

case dismissed I think.

 

I have to agree with that. I have an auto for the convenience. I don't doubt the 5 spd's are quicker, but for my everyday driving, a few 10ths isn't worth it. It's nice having a car with an auto that has decent power. If I only used the car for racing, a 5 spd would be in it. It's a compromise, and personal preference.

 

ROFLMAO

H.N.I.C.95 5-spd is faster than auto any day, given the fact that all other variables are the same. There is no arguing that. The proof is in the dyno, track times and whatever other comparison you care to make.

 

The problem lies with you not knowing what your talking about! Educate yourself first, then come back and talk shop with us. We've been here longer then you, we know the Auto-vs-Manual deal with our cars.

The statement "If you had a 5-speed you could win, but with an Auto you would lose" is a proven fact based upon the information collected by time slips. We know the 5 speed maxima is faster then the automagic maxima and the members of this board know which cars will normally take the win.

 

ehhh, some GXE's come in stick...should have compared SE STICK to GLE

 

If you read that article you'll notice that the SE is a stick and the GXE is a auto.

 

come on moderaters... please close this thread... lock it... delete it.. i don't mean to hate on any max owners... but come on guy, 99% of autos are slower than manuals. off the top of my head, the only auto that run faster than a manual are the firebirds/trans am's/ cameros... i guess GM either builds a efficient auto, or builds a crappy manual

 

Crappy manual most likely! hehe j/k (sorry for the post whoring but I couldn't resist on this one)

 

Guys Guys! .5 sec is a significant number, but is it worth arguing over? There are so many factors involved here between 2 cars and 2 drivers. Give if everything is equal (psi, tire width, diameter, aerodynamic coefficient... blah blah blah), a 5 spd is no doubt a tad faster. Since we are on the subject of racing.. Do I think drag racing is racing? NO! Do I think NASCAR is racing? NO! Do I think Formula 1 is racing? YES! Racing isn't just all about hp, a lot has to do with the handling of the car, and the setup of the car. On a real track (meaning it has corners), what good is speed when you can't brake and turn worth a damn? I race R/C cars, 1/8th scale with a 3hp motor in there, 0-60mph in 2 secs. When you race anywhere, Regionals or Nationals, it's all about setting up the car to handle perfectly (camber, toe, rebound, spring weight, sway bars, tire compound) so there's no difference than a real race car. Fast cars are the ones that are fastest in the infield not necessary the fastest cars going down the straights.

 

 

So you don't think that true drag racing, or Nascar for that matter, takes as much skill and tuning as F1? Its just a different type of skill and tuning.

Racing is racing...I don't know how you could think that any form of racing is not.

 

They are racing in their own rights. But going in oval? Turning only left? Going just straight line? The skills require to drive and setup those cars in comparison to F1 is child's play. Notice no oval drivers really succeed in F1 recently until Juan Pablo Montoya moved over to F1 after winning CART championship. Alex Zanardi went over there and sucked, Michael Andretti went over there and sucked! Why? Cause they don't have the skills. Granted Juan drove Formula 3000 and was test driver for Williams before he had his stint with Champ car. Nigel Mansell retired from F1 and came over here to drive Champ cars and absolutely kicked as*, winning the CART championship in his first year. I'm not ******* NASCAR or NHRA Drag, but if you think those are real racing, you haven't seen nothing yet. Bottom line is you just don't see F1 teams scouting out NASCAR or NHRA to find their next world champion.

 

...And I'd bet you that an F1 driver would have no chance in hell of doing well in a (true) drag or Nascar race.

Racing is racing. This is getting (even more) OT anyways, so I'll leave it at that.

 

Oh, grow up people. This racing thing isn't that important. Anyway, are there any mods avalable that really help out in acceleration for auot or manual? I've read that the CAI and hybrid intake help out on low end. What about exhuast?

 

to the original thread starter, u just said now u got an auto for convience and completely changed the original post, no one can agree more that an auto is more convienent, but guess whats its ur opinion. dont do stupid threads. talkin about how autos are faster, and its how u launch. yes u can make an auto quicker, but 5 speeds are faster. i on the other hand think it is annoying as heII driving an auto, just too outta control for me. so basically u wasted everyones time and ur dum. im bein immature, but this sure was a ghey thread.

 

this is a dumb thread

and to the guy who said nascar ain't racing, just to be OT like everyone else..what about when NASCAR goes to raod courese like this coming week.


ejj5875 said it best, racing is racing.